Raw Powders

[JLAWz]

I posted this in Platinum Chemistry, but that board is slow as of now so I figured i'd post here:

Im becoming more and more interested in powders. I'm starting to read up on it a bit and one question I have is: Are the orals (like Var) as easy as getting a scale, measuring 10mgs, putting it in a capsule and taking it? Sounds too easy to be true, but it would be great if thats all it is to it!
JLAW

 

[georgie24]

i read about powders too, good deal if you ask me.. def worth it for the entrepenuer at heart

 

[rjl296]

you need a accurate scale to measure out .01 g (10mg).
im going to get some, and just suspend it in soln

 

[cinnabar]

Hey Bro the way you would do var is take 1 gram and dissolve it in a 100ml's of everclear, the you would have a solution of 10mgs/ml. Hope that helps

 

[JLAWz]

you need a accurate scale to measure out .01 g (10mg).
im going to get some, and just suspend it in soln

So, if i get a good scale and measure .01g it would be the same (if not better than) 1 piece of PaperVar? Is it simple as that?

 

[JLAWz]

Hey Bro the way you would do var is take 1 gram and dissolve it in a 100ml's of everclear, the you would have a solution of 10mgs/ml. Hope that helps

I've seen the "everclear" thing on several threads. Is this the liquor? So if you make it this way its oral, correct?

 

[AAP]

Using Cap M Quik is a pain in the ass.... not worth the hassle.

maybe dissolve and inject in a gel cap.

 

[JLAWz]

Using Cap M Quik is a pain in the ass.... not worth the hassle.

maybe dissolve and inject in a gel cap.

Yeah, I cap my R-ala. It is a bit time consuming. Not too bad though! The only thing about putting liquid into a gel cap is the ones that i have melt within like 2 min. so you have to have the syringe with you. Is there a gel cap I can get that will hold liquid for a while?

Thanks Bros,
JLAW

 

[Judo Tom]

you can use some flour and oil and mix that so it will not melt the gel cap

warning i did not try this with anavar.. you only use a real small amount to make anavar caps so i am not sure.. i would not do it this way.. i would get a good digital or get var tabs

 

[Dr. M]

Measuring 10mg is a pain in the ass, and very prone to error.

It would be much better to, say, take 1g of powder and add 'filler' to make the whole mix 100g. Mix it thoroughly, and you've got 10mg/g concentration in a powder form. Measure out 1g into little vials, and you've got 10mg var in that 1g which you could add to a shake or something else.

It's a little more complicated when it comes to actually capping, as you need to figure out the mass of filler which fits in one cap, then do the same sort of thing only diluting the var with filler so that it's 10mg/cap rather than a straight-up 10mg/g.

For example, let's say that your cap holds 300mg of powder weight (filler measurement using multiple caps, and take the average). Take your var and mix it up at 10mg per 300mg (1g powder in 30g total weight; 1g powder plus 29g filler). After that, you can cap away... does that make some sort of sense?

-M

 

[JLAWz]

Measuring 10mg is a pain in the ass, and very prone to error.

It would be much better to, say, take 1g of powder and add 'filler' to make the whole mix 100g. Mix it thoroughly, and you've got 10mg/g concentration in a powder form. Measure out 1g into little vials, and you've got 10mg var in that 1g which you could add to a shake or something else.

It's a little more complicated when it comes to actually capping, as you need to figure out the mass of filler which fits in one cap, then do the same sort of thing only diluting the var with filler so that it's 10mg/cap rather than a straight-up 10mg/g.

For example, let's say that your cap holds 300mg of powder weight (filler measurement using multiple caps, and take the average). Take your var and mix it up at 10mg per 300mg (1g powder in 30g total weight; 1g powder plus 29g filler). After that, you can cap away... does that make some sort of sense?

-M

Kinda, but if you mix the powder with the filler, how do you know that it will be mixed so good that each cap will have the same amount of Var/filler. (Im sure it wont be EXACT, but will it be really close if mixed well?)

With the caps; would you measure the weight of the cap? It seems really easy to pack more powder in one cap than the other!

Bare with me, I will get it before too long!(Hopefully)

Thanks Dr. M,
JLAW

 

[Dr. M]

Yes, if mixed uniformly and properly, you will have a uniform and proper dosage of active pharmaceutical ingredient.

To make this accurate, you need to do a few things:

1 - Measure the weight of powder in a number of caps which have been TAMPED (pressed). Measure 20 caps, record the data, and calculate the average weight of filler in each cap. Larger sample size for the average means a more accurate average.

2 - Make sure you put roughly the same amount of powder in each cap. If you're tamping properly, this isn't too tough. Consistency is all you're looking for.

OK, let's talk accuracy.

If you're off by 10% when you measure 10mg straight-up, you're gonna have 9 or 11 mg (10% high or low, respectively). If you're off by 10% in the mix, you're gonna have let's say 270 or 330 mg (assuming we have 300 mg average filler weight per cap). Which is harder to mess up - 1mg or 30mg?

If that's not convincing enough, let's say you're off by 5mg every time. 5mg extra of pure var is a 150% dosage! Oops... 5mg extra (305mg, let's say) will give you 10.17 mg var with our above 10mg in 300mg mixing example. See what I'm getting at?

Using a more dilute sample can help you with measuring inaccuracies.

-M

 

[haxedout]

capping is defaintly a pain in the ass, suspend it in alcholol(pure grain) taste like shit though

 

[JLAWz]

Thanks Dr. M.! Understood!



When capped are ya'll talking about the "liquor" everclear?

 

[Dr. M]

Yes, they're talking about using everclear or other relatively pure ethanol to dissolve your powder for ingestion.

Personally, I'm a bigger fan of the capping idea, but it IS much easier to measure and dissolve than it is to cap, measure, adjust, fill, tamp, cap, measure...

-M

 

[JLAWz]

I know its not much, but wouldn't the everclear just put a bigger strain on the liver?

 

[Hardcoregrowth]

Not sure about the strain.

I have never made Var, but I make my dbol injectible, so I dont have to worry about it.
I dont think I would try to make the Var injectible....I read some of the powders are only 70% pure

 

[JLAWz]

I read some of the powders are only 70% pure

REALLY?
What would be the best way to check this? Send it to a lab?

 

[muscleup]

Not sure about the strain.

I have never made Var, but I make my dbol injectible, so I dont have to worry about it.
I dont think I would try to make the Var injectible....I read some of the powders are only 70% pure

yup I heard the same thing...Most of the test pwder has been tested though, and it all comes back about 98-99% legit...

 

[truchemtech]

absolutely

 

[mrflexdiesel]

Flipping this a little bit. How would you go about making let's say Test powder into an injectable?

 

[the urge]

Go to conversionboard, and look at Budlight74's post on capping the var. The idea that you get a scale that measures .01 of a gram really doesn't help (I've got one myself) the reason is -if you put a catain amount on the scale it could read .01(10mgs) , but you could actually have .019(19 mgs)- before it would read .02, or .011 would still register .01, because it's accurat to .01 of a gram instead of .001 - make sense?? The is a large margin for error this way unfortunately.

 

[Hardcoregrowth]

Flipping this a little bit. How would you go about making let's say Test powder into an injectable?

There is a sticky at Bolex in the powder forum stating how to make many different things and amounts. It also has a powder calculator stuck also.

 

[Dr. M]

Flipping this a little bit. How would you go about making let's say Test powder into an injectable?

The short version of the story:

1 - weigh out your powder. For 10cc of 250mg/mL, weigh out 2.5g into a vial.

2 - Add about 0.9%-2% BA, 20% BB, and the rest oil (for 10mL, that means a drop or two of BA, 2 mL BB, and the rest - about 6.5-7mL due to the volume the gear takes up - USP oil). If you want to be exact with your concentrations, make up LARGER batches (say, 100cc at a time if you can afford it) and use a known-volume container. If you can buy a graduated cylinder or volumetric flask, that would be ideal.

3 - Allow to dissolve; heat slightly if necessary.

4 - Filter (0.22um sterile filter) into sealed sterile vial using extremely clean technique.

5 - Enjoy.

Now, this is a really short version... but this is just a side-note on the thread, right?

-M

 

[mrflexdiesel]

The short version of the story:

1 - weigh out your powder. For 10cc of 250mg/mL, weigh out 2.5g into a vial.

2 - Add about 0.9%-2% BA, 20% BB, and the rest oil (for 10mL, that means a drop or two of BA, 2 mL BB, and the rest - about 6.5-7mL due to the volume the gear takes up - USP oil). If you want to be exact with your concentrations, make up LARGER batches (say, 100cc at a time if you can afford it) and use a known-volume container. If you can buy a graduated cylinder or volumetric flask, that would be ideal.

3 - Allow to dissolve; heat slightly if necessary.

4 - Filter (0.22um sterile filter) into sealed sterile vial using extremely clean technique.

5 - Enjoy.

Now, this is a really short version... but this is just a side-note on the thread, right?

-M

Excellent! You are the man. By the way when you refer to USP oil is that like a sesame oil or propylene glycol. Sorry if I spelled that wrong. And is BA - benzy alchol and BB - benzyl benzoate? Thanks bro.

 

[Dr. M]

USP oil is something like sesame oil, cottonseed oil, etc. which has been manufactured to a standard of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Usually this means it's handled very carefully from growth to pressing to bottling in order that it's not contaminated with anything particularly nasty (pesticides, immunogens, other pyrogens).

BA = benzyl alcohol, and BB = benzyl benzoate.

Adding more BB makes the gear more painless in my experience, especially with shorter ester test (eg. prop). BB is an excellent cosolvent which prevents crystallization upon injection; BA won't necessarily do this, and it can cause some tissue damage at the inject site if used at a high enough concentration. However, BB isn't bacteristatic, so it's good to throw BA in at 0.9%+; BA is also a great gear solvent so it's kinda dual-purpose.

-M

 

[colt1911]

Flipping this a little bit. How would you go about making let's say Test powder into an injectable?

Heres what I did...

Test Enanthate 10 gram conversion

Needed
10 grams test E
2ml Benzyl Alcohol = 5% BA
30.5 ml sesame oil
Syringes 3cc & 5/10cc
18 or 20 gauge needles
mixing Vial
Sterile Vial
Whatman sterile filter


1. Weigh out 10 grams of powder.
2. Place powder in vial.
3. Add BA to the vial.
4. Heat oil in the oven to help sterilize it, heat to at least 212 degrees F. I usually heat my oil at 275 to be sure, I put the oil in a muffin pan, just fill one of the indentions this is plenty for these experiments. Also heat more oil than you need, as you will not be able to get it all out of the pan.
5. Add oil to the vial, save 2 ml of oil in the syringe for later. Gently shake vial.
6. Heat mixture if necessary. I like heating my powder products, by placing the vial in a frying pan, and placing it on the eye of the stove.
7. Place a 18 or 20 gauge needle in the sterile vial attach Whatman sterile filter.
8. Place another needle in the sterile vial to relieve the pressure.
9. Draw out solution with a syringe, run though Whatman filter.
10. Take other syringe with 2ml oil, run through Whatman into solution.

Makes 40ml @ 250mg/ml

**you can lower the BA to 3.75% with 1.5ml and lower the oil slightly and add 5-10%BB. Painless indeed.
** I used grapeseed oil since it is the lightest I there is I believe.

 

[colt1911]

Benzyl Alcohol is often the primary solvent and sometime the only solvent in a given formula. Its primary function is as a sterilizing agent. However, due to its solvency power it is often used to keep hormones in solution with oil or other vehicles. It is also one of the thinnest (that is best for viscosity reduction) The major drawback to this solvent is that it tends to make for painful injections if the concentration goes above 10%. (This is true for any low molecular weight alcohol). Less than this tends to be painless for most people.
Technical info: CAS # 100-51-6, Density is 1.05, Molecular weight is 108.14, Boiling point is 401f, Water solubility is 4.29g in 100ml.

Benzyl Benzoate is the next common solvent on the list. It is not nearly as strong and much heavier than the benzyl alcohol so benzyl benzoate is used primarily for its latent affects in the depot. Namely it helps keep the hormone in solution at the injection site after the more water-soluble benzyl alcohol has leached from the depot. benzyl benzoate is constructed of two benzene rings bridged by a carbonyl group, this making the solvent extremely hydrophobic. It is also painless at low levels and nearly painless at 15-20% for most people.
Technical info: CAS# 120-51-4, density is 1.11, Molecular Weight is 212.25 Boiling point is 614f, Water solubility is less then 1g in 100ml.

 

[diablo570]

Dr. M: Being that you are in the midst of earning your Ph.D. in biochem., I have a question for you:

How much testosterone in % (or any other AAS) would be lost in its filtration @0.22um?
How much smaller are AAS than the smallet virus? I aske these two questions since I am unable to find the molecualr size of testosterone, and since you should have a decent background in this field, I have turned to you
If you happen to come across the molecular size (in um) of testosterone (or another AAS) would you mind posting it? I would like to know how easily AAS pass through the 0.22um filter.

Thanks for any info!

 

[Dr. M]

Diablo -

None of your testosterone should bind to the filter, but you may lose a bit due to retention of volume (i.e. that last little bit you can't get out of the filter). If this is a worry, make your test solution to about 9mL instead of 10mL, then after filtration take about a mL of sterile oil and run it through the filter to 'clean' it out. Testosterone is extremely hydrophobic, and nylon or PVDF filter membranes tend to bind highly charged protein species... testosterone is a totally different beast.

Viruses are measured in the tens (very rare, if any) to hundreds of nanometers (10E-8 to 10E-7 m). Viruses which thrive in mammalian cells are usually around 400-1200nm (0.4 to 1.2um). If you look at the molecular size of cholesterol (the nucleus of which is the basis for testosterone and other steroids), it's 44.5 Å (Ångstroms, which are 10E-10 m) in its longest dimension, if I remember correctly from my lipid biophysics classes. So, testosterone and other steroids, including their esters, are on average let's say almost a thousand times smaller than some of the smallest viruses which infect mammalian cells.
They whizz right through a 0.22um PVDF filter, while most (if not all) viruses and bacteria are retained by the filter membrane.

Does this clear things up? Karma if you're diggin the info...
-M

 

[Dr. M]

Bump for diablo so he sees this...

-M

 

[mrflexdiesel]

You never fail to impress me!!! By the way, did a little or lot of research the past two days and I figured out everything I need to know. He, he. I'm stoked!

Diablo -

None of your testosterone should bind to the filter, but you may lose a bit due to retention of volume (i.e. that last little bit you can't get out of the filter). If this is a worry, make your test solution to about 9mL instead of 10mL, then after filtration take about a mL of sterile oil and run it through the filter to 'clean' it out. Testosterone is extremely hydrophobic, and nylon or PVDF filter membranes tend to bind highly charged protein species... testosterone is a totally different beast.

Viruses are measured in the tens (very rare, if any) to hundreds of nanometers (10E-8 to 10E-7 m). Viruses which thrive in mammalian cells are usually around 400-1200nm (0.4 to 1.2um). If you look at the molecular size of cholesterol (the nucleus of which is the basis for testosterone and other steroids), it's 44.5 Å (Ångstroms, which are 10E-10 m) in its longest dimension, if I remember correctly from my lipid biophysics classes. So, testosterone and other steroids, including their esters, are on average let's say almost a thousand times smaller than some of the smallest viruses which infect mammalian cells.
They whizz right through a 0.22um PVDF filter, while most (if not all) viruses and bacteria are retained by the filter membrane.

Does this clear things up? Karma if you're diggin the info...
-M

 

[rjl296]

You never fail to impress me!!! By the way, did a little or lot of research the past two days and I figured out everything I need to know. He, he. I'm stoked!

its easy

 

[Dr. M]

Yup, it sure is easy.

Most guys are intimidated by making their own gear from powders... but it's dead simple!

-M

 

[bicepts101]

Yup, it sure is easy.

Most guys are intimidated by making their own gear from powders... but it's dead simple!

-M

and im one of them

maybe one day, you never know

...it is alot cheaper though