Question on the 5X5

[SDHW]

Hey bros,

I have a question on the 5x5, the more I research it, the more changes and different types of the 5x5 I find.

here are some examples of ones that I have found.

Monday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (same weight)
Benching 5x5 (flat, close grip or regular)(same weight)
JS Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)

Wednesday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (reduced 15-20% from Monday) or Front Squats 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5 (same weight)
Deadlifts 5x5 (same weight) (if you pull 2.5x bodyweight do 3x5)
Pull ups 5x5 (use weight if you need it)
Accessory (biceps and abs)

Friday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (working up each set)
Benching 5x5 (flat or incline)(same weight)
Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs

OR

Monday

squat 5x5
Bench 1x5
Row 1x5

Wednesday

squat 5x5 15% reduced from Monday
Dead lift 5x5
Over head press 5x5
Row 5x5

Friday

Squat 1x5
Bench 5x5
Row 5x5

OR just 5x5 across the board, not ramping up

looking for anyone’s opinions on which one i should use, I have been using the first one, but Im only a week into it. I have also noticed, that I need some extra work on my grip strength, low back.

 

[Protobuilder]

Those programs are from Madcow's geocities page? I can't be sure but they look like it. My posts here might help: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=507245

 

[SDHW]

Those programs are from Madcow's geocities page? I can't be sure but they look like it. My posts here might help: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=507245

I must have been looking at the intermediate vs advanced program from madcow's page. what makes one advanced over the other, is it the deload week??

I am just using the 5x5 for almost every lift on each day, except for wed squat I do 15% less than Mondays, and on Friday I do 1x5 for squat ramping up. Everything else is 5x5. then I was going to deload or peak on weeks 5-6.

but looking at the advanced layout. Maybe i should be doing

monday
squat 5x5
bench 1x5
row 1x5

wed
squat 5x5 15% less than monday
deadlift 5x5
military press 5x5
pull up 5x5

Friday
squat 1x5
bech 5x5
row 5x5

 

[al420]

I would just run the single factor program to start with. If you aren;t stalling you do not need the deload period associate w/ the advanced version.

 

[Protobuilder]

The whole deload / intensity phase bit is so that you can work up to a peak and hit a few new PRs. It's for guys that can't just go in and add weight to the bar each week. If you can do the latter, by all means, DO IT! And ride it as far as you can. many guys can make linear week-to-week progress for LONG periods of time w/ a few tweaks here and there.

The advanced program has more volume. Again, it's designed for more advanced guys who NEED that volume in order to help them peak and hit new PRs after a short deload. If you need less volume to hit PRs, why bother?

IOW, if your 4 cylinder motor will get you where you need to go, you don't need to spend the time and money building a jet-fueled dragster. Eventually, you may need that extra horsepower, but right now, your 4 cylinder works just fine.

 

[SDHW]

The whole deload / intensity phase bit is so that you can work up to a peak and hit a few new PRs. It's for guys that can't just go in and add weight to the bar each week. If you can do the latter, by all means, DO IT! And ride it as far as you can. many guys can make linear week-to-week progress for LONG periods of time w/ a few tweaks here and there.

The advanced program has more volume. Again, it's designed for more advanced guys who NEED that volume in order to help them peak and hit new PRs after a short deload. If you need less volume to hit PRs, why bother?

IOW, if your 4 cylinder motor will get you where you need to go, you don't need to spend the time and money building a jet-fueled dragster. Eventually, you may need that extra horsepower, but right now, your 4 cylinder works just fine.

well I have been working out for 13yrs now, so I think I do need the extra volume, but if I dont have to deload then I guess I wont waste the time doing so. if I feel that my lifts are starting to stall I will deload then. I dont need to peak, but I do need to continually progress and make strength/size gains.

Thanks for the help

 

[SDHW]

bump for more feedback

 

[Mercere]

The program you posted is an interpretation of Bill Starr's 5x5 similar to madcows, I think it was posted in MesoRx under "AnimalMass' favorite routines" and is written by JS

Have you continiously trained the core lifts for 13 years? What is your age and your maxes? These would be the indicators if you need the advanced 5x5. But I agree with al420, do the single factor. If you can't make progress, try the dual factor one.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

well I have been working out for 13yrs now, so I think I do need the extra volume, but if I dont have to deload then I guess I wont waste the time doing so. if I feel that my lifts are starting to stall I will deload then. I dont need to peak, but I do need to continually progress and make strength/size gains.
Thanks for the help

working out?? Or TRAINING? ...big difference.

If so 13 years of hard pushing the core lifts you should have HUGE max lifts..

what are you maxes?

You're right with what you've stated. If you don't need the extra volume yet, why jump the gun. Making progress (add weight) every week and tweak your rep range when stall... and keep at it.

 

[Tweakle]

bump for maxes, if your lifts are going up then don't mess with anything. Deloads are absolutely necessary I would think for someone lifting the kind of weight you must be moving after 13 years at this.

 

[SDHW]

working out?? Or TRAINING? ...big difference.

If so 13 years of hard pushing the core lifts you should have HUGE max lifts..

what are you maxes?

You're right with what you've stated. If you don't need the extra volume yet, why jump the gun. Making progress (add weight) every week and tweak your rep range when stall... and keep at it.

Alright well you have a point, I started working out when I was 13, but it was with a well known body builder in my area, and he started me out on all the basic lifts, so from day one I was doing them, then when I hit high school I played football, and started working out with a power lifter/strongman. I competed and won some strongman events. at 16/17 I was pound for pound the strongest kid in my school, and I was at a div 1 high school we had over 5000 students. I hurt my ankle in football my junior year, and blew out my knee my senior year. lost all my scholarships for football. so my lifting kinda changed at that point. it was hard to squat and deadlift. so I moved more into powerbodybuilding/bodybuilding, if that makes sence. I came back an played semi-pro football and wouldnt ya know it, last game blew out the same knee. Now on a side note, when I say blew out my knee, I dont mean I was running around the corner, and it just gave out, im talking about direct helmet hit right to the outside and center of the knee, torn ligaments... I have spent a lot of time, in re-hab, working back up to what I could do before..which to tell you the truth gets tought to keep doing over and over

so to say the least, I haven’t deadlifted in about 4-5 years, however I have still squated,bench,powerclean and all that. I couldnt really tell you all my maxes as I never max out, I workout alone, and most of the time when I go to the gym, im the only one there.

So here is what I have done in the past

Bench 405 x5reps
Squat 515 x 8reps
Power clean 275 x 10reps
Dead lift 435x4

these are all done without any wraps,belts or anything like that.

That is just lift numbers from when I am working out. I use those weight during the sets, I know they are really not impressive, but again im really not a powerlifter, I train for football, im trying to get the strength up, which is why im going back to the basics and trying out this program. im 25, 6ft 255lbs, and i have been training hard for a very long time.

I hope I didn’t bore anyone with that story, I didn’t mean to get into my life story..lol.

 

[carlsuen]

omg! u can bench 405?!!? that's ficking impressive man! of cuz u're squats and deads need work.. but impressive nontheless.!! waht everyone said so far.. read up on training consistently.. and work around that injury/disadvantage u have.. as it's not an excuse not to train.. good luck..

 

[SDHW]

so im guessing, should I deload, or not, or should I just keep adding weight and deload when I feel I need to?

 

[carlsuen]

generally i deload every 8-10 weeks or so... but that's just me.. u gotta be able to listen to ur body i guess..

 

[BiggT]

At your level, you need to know what 'type' of trainee you are.....typically, for a guy with your lifts, 2-3 weeks of pushing hard followed by 1-2 weeks of deloading works well.

 

[al420]

IMO those lifts are sick

 

[SDHW]

IMO those lifts are sick

thanks bro, but there is much work to be done..

 

[SDHW]

At your level, you need to know what 'type' of trainee you are.....typically, for a guy with your lifts, 2-3 weeks of pushing hard followed by 1-2 weeks of deloading works well.

so you think instead of following, starr's intermediate linear progression, I should us the advanced dual factor program with the deloading part. some are telling yes, and some are saying no. I see points to both sides, I mean if I can progress and keep upping my lifts, is there really any need for a unloading phase, but then again, I dont want to build up too much fatige and start over training.....