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Question about the ABCDE Diet?!
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Mr.X
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ABCDE, or Anabolic Burst Cycling of Diet and Exercise is NOT A GOOD WAY TO BULK!!!
It's a two-step forward and one-step back diet. (sometimes 3 steps back).
The run down of the program:
2 weeks= "eat everything that's not nailed down"... fast food, pizza, birds, snakes, sharks, little kids, house pets..etc... ( if you run out of food, just eat the neighbors arm) THIS IS rediculous... first 2 weeks they recommend a 1500-2000 calorie surplus
THEN:
Next 2 weeks= about 1000-1300 calorie deficit a day, the original program recommended 8lb per lb of body mass. This is a sure way to cause metabolic shut down.
I've seen people use this "DIET" (I have also been stupid enough to experiment with this diet) and all that came out of it was a BIG FAT gain and not an amountable muscle mass gain, when compared to the amount of fat you gain.
So, the answer is, NO, this diet is total HYPE and BULLSHIT. My 15 year old cousin can come up with the same diet. Just eat everything then don't eat anything.
Mr.X
It's a two-step forward and one-step back diet. (sometimes 3 steps back).
The run down of the program:
2 weeks= "eat everything that's not nailed down"... fast food, pizza, birds, snakes, sharks, little kids, house pets..etc... ( if you run out of food, just eat the neighbors arm) THIS IS rediculous... first 2 weeks they recommend a 1500-2000 calorie surplus
THEN:
Next 2 weeks= about 1000-1300 calorie deficit a day, the original program recommended 8lb per lb of body mass. This is a sure way to cause metabolic shut down.
I've seen people use this "DIET" (I have also been stupid enough to experiment with this diet) and all that came out of it was a BIG FAT gain and not an amountable muscle mass gain, when compared to the amount of fat you gain.
So, the answer is, NO, this diet is total HYPE and BULLSHIT. My 15 year old cousin can come up with the same diet. Just eat everything then don't eat anything.
Mr.X
I would have to disagree with that a little bit. Ive been on an animalbolics (somewhat keto diet) for three months and my metabolism has slowed down alot during the three months but im still not where i want to be so i got stuck for a while. Then i read about the abcde diet and i figured that it kinda made sense. I know that when I come off of a diet my strength and wieght goes up very fast in at least the first two weeks of eating normal again. So some of it may be fat but a decent amount is muscles growing be it either lbm or water filling up muscles. So now that ive been on three months i decided to jump into a two week eating frenzy as suggested by the abcde diet. I wanted to try and jumpstart my metabolism while gaining a little strength. Well the two weeks are up and ive been through one week of dieting again and all i can say is that ive gained back most of the strength i lost during the dieting and the 3/4 of an inch i gained in those two weeks of eating is already gone and im moving down even more now. The plateau that i reached was broken by the two weeks of eating called for by the abcde. Now i plan to diet for at least 3 weeks before eating normal again and i might only do that for a week. So i think that if you play around with the abcde diet and change around some things.. possibly lowering the calories on the pig out weeks and extending the diet period an extra week or so you could definately loose weight and at the very least keep most of your strength and size. It may take longer to get to your goal but i think it definately works. Its a very good way to screw around with your metabolism.. slow it down by eating very little for two weeks and boom when you start eating alot again i gaurentee you that you will gain strength.. maybe its not the best idea for bulking though. I just dont think that its useless as you say. It definately has its uses and is based on a solid idea. It may just need some tweaking around a bit to cater to your own needs or goals..
ABCDE diet as it is recommended won't work for the majority of people out there. The only ones who won't get fat on it are ectomorphs and in there case they should just stay on the bulking part anyways. However I think the 2 week bulk, 2 week cut cycle in general is a good idea though I'd suggest not going to extremes. I think when I bulk this year I am going to play with some ideas around this type of diet. My plan is to only shoot for 1lb gain per week and 1lb loss per week. After 2 weeks of bulking even if you've gained 2 lbs, at minimum hopefully you've gained 1lb of muscle and 1lb of fat. Hopefully an even better ratio. Then when you cut for 2 weeks and do it correctly you lose 2 lbs of fat an no muscle. Over time you can drastically change your bodyfat ratio without ever getting too fat at any point. If you start out very lean you could cut for shorter times and bulk for longer. Or if you're a bit pudgy you can bulk shorter and cut longer, whichever works.
In the long run the advantage would be that you wouldn't stay in either state for too long of a time so your body wouldn't adapt to either. 2 weeks of dieting isn't enough time to screw up your metabolism providing you shoot for 1-2 lb loss per week max. And 2 weeks of bulking with no more than a 500-750 calorie surplus a day isn't enough to get you fat.
In the long run the advantage would be that you wouldn't stay in either state for too long of a time so your body wouldn't adapt to either. 2 weeks of dieting isn't enough time to screw up your metabolism providing you shoot for 1-2 lb loss per week max. And 2 weeks of bulking with no more than a 500-750 calorie surplus a day isn't enough to get you fat.
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Calorie cycling is a good idea as you can take advantages of certain evolutionary adaptations, but this version is too long and/or extreme. Any significant tricking of the metabolism/hormonal environment is going to occur during the first 24-48 hours. Two days each cycles at those calorie recommendation would probably be fairly effective, particularly if workouts were timed properly. But, two weeks is going to make you fat.
Par, wouldn't 24-48 hours be too short a time for optimum muscle gain? Sure any plan to trick our hormones into doing what we want would have to be done in short amounts of time as the body adapts so quickly. However I thought that muscle building from a given workout can occur up to 72 hours or so from the actual workout. Therefore 3 days after your workout you can still be building muscle from it. So if we cut our bulk period to a maximum of 48 hours aren't we short circuiting possible growth? I know workout timing is critical but that seems too short of a window to be effective either way.
The only way it seems like it might work would be to perform workouts on the low calorie days and then let the high calorie days repair and build the muscle. However we won't get maximum workout results on days when we are severly low on calories. And what about the workouts that fall on the first low calorie day? Then you'd have another low cal day where no anabolism can occur and you've wasted 2 days right there. I'm not sure 2 days of high cals could be enough to fix what 2 days of catabolism might have done to the worked muscle.
I'm just guessing really but it seems that a short period like that wouldn't be enough to keep anabolism high. Perhaps if we wanted to do 2 days on, 2 days off we would perform workouts on the 2nd low cal day and the first high cal day. The workout on the 2nd low cal day would help to deplete glycogen stores which means the first high cal day would promote supercompensation and our workout that day would be great. Then we have another full day of high cals to keep anabolism high. We might cut some gains short by starting our low cal cycle within 48 hours of our last workout but perhaps it'd be enough...
Keep in mind all of these theories revolve around the assumption that muscle growth and repair can occur a specific number of hours post workout. If it can be shown in studies that the majority of the growth appears within 24-48 hours after workout then maybe it could work. Then again if we workout the evening of a low cal day how much possible growth are we hurting by staying low cals until the next night?
The only way it seems like it might work would be to perform workouts on the low calorie days and then let the high calorie days repair and build the muscle. However we won't get maximum workout results on days when we are severly low on calories. And what about the workouts that fall on the first low calorie day? Then you'd have another low cal day where no anabolism can occur and you've wasted 2 days right there. I'm not sure 2 days of high cals could be enough to fix what 2 days of catabolism might have done to the worked muscle.
I'm just guessing really but it seems that a short period like that wouldn't be enough to keep anabolism high. Perhaps if we wanted to do 2 days on, 2 days off we would perform workouts on the 2nd low cal day and the first high cal day. The workout on the 2nd low cal day would help to deplete glycogen stores which means the first high cal day would promote supercompensation and our workout that day would be great. Then we have another full day of high cals to keep anabolism high. We might cut some gains short by starting our low cal cycle within 48 hours of our last workout but perhaps it'd be enough...
Keep in mind all of these theories revolve around the assumption that muscle growth and repair can occur a specific number of hours post workout. If it can be shown in studies that the majority of the growth appears within 24-48 hours after workout then maybe it could work. Then again if we workout the evening of a low cal day how much possible growth are we hurting by staying low cals until the next night?
I agree that the ABCDE diet as originally written doesn't work. I say this as a female who managed to gain a decent amount of fat and a little strength on it. Like Par Deus said, both phases of eating are too long.
As for muscle gains, I think it is inaccurate to picture muscle gains as ceasing the moment you reduce your calorie intake. I also think people can get bogged down in the details of how and why, instead of the fact that something works. Even if 20% of muscle growth occurred 72 hours after your last workout, this still means you get 80% of the benefits from that workout in the first 2 days. Think of it as 2 steps forward, one step back. And you body does not instantly run out of glycogen/amino acid pool the moment you eat your last high calorie meal. So you may still get that last 20% growth anyway. The reverse of that, though, is that catabolism IS halted almost immediately after eating a high carb meal. So you can win at both ends of a short calorie cycling diet.
As for muscle gains, I think it is inaccurate to picture muscle gains as ceasing the moment you reduce your calorie intake. I also think people can get bogged down in the details of how and why, instead of the fact that something works. Even if 20% of muscle growth occurred 72 hours after your last workout, this still means you get 80% of the benefits from that workout in the first 2 days. Think of it as 2 steps forward, one step back. And you body does not instantly run out of glycogen/amino acid pool the moment you eat your last high calorie meal. So you may still get that last 20% growth anyway. The reverse of that, though, is that catabolism IS halted almost immediately after eating a high carb meal. So you can win at both ends of a short calorie cycling diet.
Vageta,
In addition to what MS said, the numbers for increased protein synthesis rates are slanted even more toward the period soon after the workout. The studies by McDougal et al and Chesley at al showed 50% elevation of protein synthesis by 4hr post-exercise, 109% by 24hours, but less than 20% by 36 hours.
So, the major increases are within the first 24 hours, and the anabolic hormonla millieu created by the overfeeding will remain for several hours after you start dieitng again.
As for timing workouts, I would suggest getting a big meal or two in before your workout then do the overfeeding for two day. Do another workout in 24 hours. Take the dieting days off or just do aerobics.
In addition to what MS said, the numbers for increased protein synthesis rates are slanted even more toward the period soon after the workout. The studies by McDougal et al and Chesley at al showed 50% elevation of protein synthesis by 4hr post-exercise, 109% by 24hours, but less than 20% by 36 hours.
So, the major increases are within the first 24 hours, and the anabolic hormonla millieu created by the overfeeding will remain for several hours after you start dieitng again.
As for timing workouts, I would suggest getting a big meal or two in before your workout then do the overfeeding for two day. Do another workout in 24 hours. Take the dieting days off or just do aerobics.
Personally, I agree with most of you that this diet is definately not for everyone. I feel it was hyped to fit the sales of Buttmunch's Myoplex Mass and Lite! It can be modified to an effective diet though. I like the ideas that have been mentioned thus far, BUT I like the version that Duchaine wrote up in the August 1998 Muscle Media in his "Ask The Guru" section. I have used it with great success myself. I give it a high rating! I'll retype what he said here:
Q: "I'm 6 foot and weigh 190 pounds at 12% bodyfat. I'm competing in the Physique Transfermation Challenge, and i've set my goals to to get my weight up to 200 pounds and get my bodyfat down to 5%. I have 3 months to make this transfermation. Tell me how to do it."
DD: "These are admirable goals. But let's look at what you would have to do to reach them. At your present weight and bodyfat percentage, you have about 167 pounds of lean body mass and 23 pounds of fat. So you goal is to gain 23 pounds of lean muscle and lose 13-lbs of fat over the course of 3 months. The 13-lb fat loss is easily doable. However, I think you could have a problem gaining 23 pounds of muscle in that amount of time. This isn't to say it can't be done, but it aint gonna be easy."
"For starters, you're gonna need an organized, efficient plan. Try to alternate the 2 goals (fat loss and muscle gain) with a different eating and training scheme for each. It's common sense advise: you lose fat until you metabolism is lowered. Then you eat more food and modify your training until you just begin to put on fat. This is an elaborate way of saying "cutting and bulking," but you don't have the luxury of wasting time. You need to know exactly when to lose fat, then gain weight, etc."
"You'll need a couple of tools to tell you exactly when to switch--a thermometer (a six dollar drugstore one will do....) and a set of bodyfat calipers. During the fat loss phase, take your basal body temperature when you first wake-up, while you are still in bed, EVERY DAY. Take note of what your basal body temperature is at maintenance calories before you even begin cutting calories, and keep a temperaturew "diary"."
"To get an accurate measurement of your body temp, you should be "clean" of any thermogenic agents. You should also make sure that you do not have a cold or the flu, which could increase your temperature."
"During the fat loss phase, you can use higher repetitions and sets in your workouts and do daily aerobics first thing in the morning before you eat. Reduce your calories by some reasonable amount (around 300 calories per day below maintenance), and don't eat more than 30% of your daily calories as carbohydrates. Eat a moderate amount of dietary fat (15-20%). Use all allowed thermogenic compounds. Remember, Phosphate may help keep your temperature up by maintaining T3 (the active thyroid hormone) while on low calories, so use this daily if you can. As soon as your basal body temperature drops more than 0.2 degrees F or 0.3 degrees F below normal 2 days in a row, stop the fat-loss phase and do 1 skin-fold measurement at your abdomen with your fat calipers, and record this figure (it's in millimeters)."
"For most bodybuilders, the basal temperature drop happens after about 2 weeks. However, even if your body temperature hasn't dropped afyter 3 weeks, you should still stop dieting at this point because your other goal is to gain new muscle."
"You now switch to your muscle-gain phase. Eat slightly above maintenance calories for at least 5 days. Stop doing aerobics, and cut the reps and sets in your workouts. Remain on your thermogenic compounds. Your goal is to eat more food without increasing the abdomen skin-fold measurement. If you load up on carbs, during this time, the water bloat will make your skin thicker, so eat no more than 40% carb calories during the weight-gain phase. As soon as the abdomen skin fold increases by one millimeter, switch back to the fat-loss phase. But if your skin fold has not increased by one millimeter after 2 weeks, switch back to the fat-loss phase anyway; otherwise, you may fall behind schedule. If this happens, you will have learned a lesson: you need more food during the next weight-gain phase."
"Realistically, a male's abdomen skin fold is the last to n down (unlike females, where the thigh skin fold is the stubborn fat). Most of those male bodybuilders in the after photos have an abdomen skin fold of 7mm. or less. If you can reduce your skin fold by 2mm during each fat-loss phase, you should have no problem achieving that 7mm abdomen pinch at the end of the 12 weeks."
"Let me know how much muscle you actually gain in the end. If you gain 23 pounds of muscle and win the contest, i'll buy you a car cover for your new Corvette."
MR. BMJ
Q: "I'm 6 foot and weigh 190 pounds at 12% bodyfat. I'm competing in the Physique Transfermation Challenge, and i've set my goals to to get my weight up to 200 pounds and get my bodyfat down to 5%. I have 3 months to make this transfermation. Tell me how to do it."
DD: "These are admirable goals. But let's look at what you would have to do to reach them. At your present weight and bodyfat percentage, you have about 167 pounds of lean body mass and 23 pounds of fat. So you goal is to gain 23 pounds of lean muscle and lose 13-lbs of fat over the course of 3 months. The 13-lb fat loss is easily doable. However, I think you could have a problem gaining 23 pounds of muscle in that amount of time. This isn't to say it can't be done, but it aint gonna be easy."
"For starters, you're gonna need an organized, efficient plan. Try to alternate the 2 goals (fat loss and muscle gain) with a different eating and training scheme for each. It's common sense advise: you lose fat until you metabolism is lowered. Then you eat more food and modify your training until you just begin to put on fat. This is an elaborate way of saying "cutting and bulking," but you don't have the luxury of wasting time. You need to know exactly when to lose fat, then gain weight, etc."
"You'll need a couple of tools to tell you exactly when to switch--a thermometer (a six dollar drugstore one will do....) and a set of bodyfat calipers. During the fat loss phase, take your basal body temperature when you first wake-up, while you are still in bed, EVERY DAY. Take note of what your basal body temperature is at maintenance calories before you even begin cutting calories, and keep a temperaturew "diary"."
"To get an accurate measurement of your body temp, you should be "clean" of any thermogenic agents. You should also make sure that you do not have a cold or the flu, which could increase your temperature."
"During the fat loss phase, you can use higher repetitions and sets in your workouts and do daily aerobics first thing in the morning before you eat. Reduce your calories by some reasonable amount (around 300 calories per day below maintenance), and don't eat more than 30% of your daily calories as carbohydrates. Eat a moderate amount of dietary fat (15-20%). Use all allowed thermogenic compounds. Remember, Phosphate may help keep your temperature up by maintaining T3 (the active thyroid hormone) while on low calories, so use this daily if you can. As soon as your basal body temperature drops more than 0.2 degrees F or 0.3 degrees F below normal 2 days in a row, stop the fat-loss phase and do 1 skin-fold measurement at your abdomen with your fat calipers, and record this figure (it's in millimeters)."
"For most bodybuilders, the basal temperature drop happens after about 2 weeks. However, even if your body temperature hasn't dropped afyter 3 weeks, you should still stop dieting at this point because your other goal is to gain new muscle."
"You now switch to your muscle-gain phase. Eat slightly above maintenance calories for at least 5 days. Stop doing aerobics, and cut the reps and sets in your workouts. Remain on your thermogenic compounds. Your goal is to eat more food without increasing the abdomen skin-fold measurement. If you load up on carbs, during this time, the water bloat will make your skin thicker, so eat no more than 40% carb calories during the weight-gain phase. As soon as the abdomen skin fold increases by one millimeter, switch back to the fat-loss phase. But if your skin fold has not increased by one millimeter after 2 weeks, switch back to the fat-loss phase anyway; otherwise, you may fall behind schedule. If this happens, you will have learned a lesson: you need more food during the next weight-gain phase."
"Realistically, a male's abdomen skin fold is the last to n down (unlike females, where the thigh skin fold is the stubborn fat). Most of those male bodybuilders in the after photos have an abdomen skin fold of 7mm. or less. If you can reduce your skin fold by 2mm during each fat-loss phase, you should have no problem achieving that 7mm abdomen pinch at the end of the 12 weeks."
"Let me know how much muscle you actually gain in the end. If you gain 23 pounds of muscle and win the contest, i'll buy you a car cover for your new Corvette."
MR. BMJ
