"Pyramiding" Revisted

[Nelson Montana]

I know going up in dosage and tapering down is no longer the accepted method and there really isn't any scientific evidence to suggest it's better/worse/or no different than just sticking with one dosage throughout.

However...

From a strictly logical standpoint it really does make sense.

Think about it.

As soon as you have extra androgen your body is working at a heightened rate to rebuild muscle. So why do more than necessary? You're already ahead of the game.

Meanwhile, it takes some time for the compounds to build up at which point there's always some tolerance -- call it receptor down regulation or whatever, the body becomes less responsive over time to any exogenous influx so "upping" the dosages a couple of weeks in to make the most of the effect makes sense as well.

Tapering down the dosage has its merits too because it gives the body the signal that it can't depend of the external source and it'd more likely to start producing more of its natural T on its own.

This, of course, is all speculation and any retort to it will be speculation as well. It just seems like the old school "common sense" approach to cycling may not be such a bad idea after all.

 

[juniorsamples]

I've always used the pyramid method. It seems to work for me.

 

[al420]

I still think the Pyramids were built by Aliens.

 

[resqguy]

I still think the Pyramids were built by Aliens.

How 'bout the head statues on Easter Island?

 

[al420]

They were all on GH - hence the big heads

 

[resqguy]

They were all on GH - hence the big heads

That's some funny shit.

 

[Big_Joe]

How 'bout the head statues on Easter Island?

They have statues that give head?? How strange.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I still think the Pyramids were built by Aliens.

The pyramids were built by Mexicans?





I can see this topic won't be debated seriously. Still, it makes sense. I can't see why it WOULDN'T work.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

It's fallen out of favor...I agree...and I know why I don't think it works...but I wonder if that's why it's fallen out of favor or if people are just following the heard on this one...?

 

[Nelson Montana]

It's fallen out of favor...I agree...and I know why I don't think it works...but I wonder if that's why it's fallen out of favor or if people are just following the heard on this one...?

That's exactly it. So much of this stuff is just what's in vouge. That's why it's a good idea to take a step back now and then and reconsider some techniques that have fallen out of favor. Pyramiding may not be fashionable but personally, I like the approach. I'd be curious to hear how it works out for others.

 

[Triple J]

i also prefer a pyramid and from the perspective of endocrinology i believe it makes the most sense. also from a safey profile in regards to becoming aware of any negative sides early and being able to back off. in the old days there really was not much of a PCT other than a long slow taper of up to 2 months or so with short acting gear and tapering dosages. remember even a 5-10mg/day oral dose is likely to have a more anabolic effect than one's own natural T levels. and a dose at that level, taken in the morning will alow the HPTA to start to recover if other compounds have cleared the system.

 

[al420]

I am on HRT - so I guess I kinda pyramid - up to 1g and them down to 250mg....then back up, and so on

 

[resqguy]

They have statues that give head?? How strange.

I have several of them...they're very handy.

 

[medrep]

I have several of them...they're very handy.

he said statues not inflatables

 

[motodawg]

In the 80's when the only info was Dan's handbook well the only info i was aware of except other bro's thoughts and that was limited to who you trusted! I lived in Southern California and there were a lot of bro's doin juice and a most everyone i knew pyramided, the gym owner that turned me on to steroids explained to me how you start out low doses and in the middle max out with the dosages then down and off! Now days everyone seems to be going with 1 school of thought more is better!

 

[nydj66]

I can't give you a definitive answer either but just to offer the counterpoint...

If you're using long ester AAS, it' takes a while to build up in your system so you are effectively pyramiding up if you start at a dose and stick with it. With some data on the rate at which downregulation occurs, it should be possible to calculate if addition dosage manipulation is helpful or mot.

As far as pyramiding down, I don't see the benefit in that one. While common sense would indicate that pyramiding AAS dosage down would gradually transistion the body back to it's natural state; there is also great benefit it recovering the HPTA in the shortest possible time.

So, in pyramiding down, you're lowering dosage after you receptors have downregulated so you get very little benefit from the AAS but you do prolong HPTA suppression. My gut tells me it's better to stop a cycle cold at the point where gains have stalled, then concentrate on recovery.

 

[Cauliflower Ear]

i actually pyrimided on my first cycle by accident...yeah...not gonna do it again

 

[hard2handle]

You know what Nelson, until just now reading this post i had forgotten that on my first cycle ever, I was told to pyramid my dbol. I also got the best results that time. I know some would say I'm less receptive now. I'm gonna find out and let you know in a couple days. Please excuse me while I get my lab coat and beaker, it's time for a little experiment.

On a side note, I don't know axactly what it was, but my grandma was given some type of hormone to aid in recovery of back surgery and was instructed to pyramid the dose.

 

[hard2handle]

I love being a scientist.

 

[needtogetaas]

I know going up in dosage and tapering down is no longer the accepted method and there really isn't any scientific evidence to suggest it's better/worse/or no different than just sticking with one dosage throughout.

However...

From a strictly logical standpoint it really does make sense.

Think about it.

As soon as you have extra androgen your body is working at a heightened rate to rebuild muscle. So why do more than necessary? You're already ahead of the game.

Meanwhile, it takes some time for the compounds to build up at which point there's always some tolerance -- call it receptor down regulation or whatever, the body becomes less responsive over time to any exogenous influx so "upping" the dosages a couple of weeks in to make the most of the effect makes sense as well.

Tapering down the dosage has its merits too because it gives the body the signal that it can't depend of the external source and it'd more likely to start producing more of its natural T on its own.

This, of course, is all speculation and any retort to it will be speculation as well. It just seems like the old school "common sense" approach to cycling may not be such a bad idea after all.

this is how I did my first cycle in the 90's

 

[resqguy]

he said statues not inflatables

Oooooooohhh...I'm so embarrassed...

 

[Anthony Roberts]

The problem with pyramiding, as I see it...is that even 100mgs of test will shut you down 100%. So when you taper from a gram to 100mgs, over a few weeks (or months), by the time you're shooting that 100mgs/week...you've recovered exactly 0% of your HPTA. Maybe it's psychologically easier and allows your body to gradually "get used" to having less test in it, but it's not going to help you recover more quickly than cold turkey+ PCT.

 

[Nelson Montana]

The problem with pyramiding, as I see it...is that even 100mgs of test will shut you down 100%. So when you taper from a gram to 100mgs, over a few weeks (or months), by the time you're shooting that 100mgs/week...you've recovered exactly 0% of your HPTA. Maybe it's psychologically easier and allows your body to gradually "get used" to having less test in it, but it's not going to help you recover more quickly than cold turkey+ PCT.

But you can also start a mild PCT at the end of the cycle. Add some natty test boosters and anti-e's. Maybe even a first administration of HCG with a follow up. Or use an LH supp at the end to get the body prepared for recovery and then use HCG. There are lots of options. At some point the body is going to be surpressed no matter what.

The one thing I disagree with, and I think it's more a matter of terminology , is that even 100mgs of T will shut you down 100%. That's a HRT dosage and I don't think if someone were on HRT and then stopped their T would be zero. That's 100% shutdown. (Although their LH might be close to zero). And duration is a factor as well. There's less suppression from a 6 week cycle than there from a 6 month cycle. It's also easier to recover from a shorter cycle. It's not like T is shut off immediatly and completely. Of course, this too is an individual thing. Not everyone reacts the same.

 

[Triple J]

well the idea of a taper or pyramid makes sense considering the overall physiological effects (both known and unknown, primary and secondary) so the body has an easier adaptation. although in the case of long ester gear it does not really matter when coming off, moreso when going on. when coming off its not so easy to tell when the long esters have cleared so I prefer a long taper using short acting gear preferably a non-aromatizing oral. that's whats best. all hail, i have spoken