Proviron

[liftr486]

say someone is doing a pct with 300-100-50 clomid, 20mg nolvadex/day, and hcg-2500iu-every 4 days for three weeks--would taking proviron interfere with the recovery process and keep u shut down even longer?? thanx, liftr486

 

[dzulboy]

all i know is proviron is an adrogen that enters the estrogen receptor so if i had to guess i would say it would supress and there is no need to take hcg for more then 2 weeks and there no reason to take that much clomid 300 can be easily cut down to 150 and see the same benefits with that muchclomid

 

[zziggzzigg]

the hcg will be suppressive as well

proviron is not as suppressive, but it has been said that in some people it can be suppressive... if the goal is to recover as quickly as possible I would think it best to leave it out, but it and the hcg might be useful if you wanted a longer less cold turkey approach

If the goal is to shock the hpta into producing LH and test I am now subscribing to the nolvadex and anti-aromatase theory of keeping estrogen very low so HP sees the need to stimulate testosterone in a hurry... hcg produces as much estrogen as it does testosterone, so it can only prolong recovery post cycle


I used HCG sporadically while on cycle and at the end of the cycle, but since then am on 20mg nolvadex and .5mg letrozole ed for a month to see how it works.

 

[NapoleanComplex]

Run your HCG before the clomid. The half-life on hcg is 5 days...if I remember correctly. So finish up HCG a few days before you start clomid.

 

[Slyder190]

PCT

Run the HCG before Clomid. A vet can give you an idea of how to do so, as I honestly have never used it as of yet. I'd forget the proviron. Peiople argue this at times, but if there's any doubt to it, why risk recovery?

 

[sh4dowf4lcon]

I know opinions differ greatly on Hcg, but IMO you dont need 2500iu in a single injection. I always prefer 500iu ED for a few days vs a large injection in one single day. If you screw up with the Hcg you will cause more harm than good.

my2cc on Hcg

 

[lartinos]

damn 2500iu's, that is totally unecessary and will only lead to problems such as gyno and suppression.

 

[_Yossarian_]

Im with Shadow Falcon on the HCG, lower dose, more frequent injections. 500iu ED worked wonders for me.

 

[Kopaka]

Im with Shadow Falcon on the HCG, lower dose, more frequent injections. 500iu ED worked wonders for me.

Agreed, 500iu for 3-6 days in mid cycle and 500iu for 6-9 days post cycle=BIG BOUNCY BALLS. I would not use Hcg in a 2500iu injection @ one time.

 

[twistedneck]

lol, i've heard of guys doing 5000iu/day hcg.

I belive Nelson recommended Proviron only when needed (when sex was imminent) since proviron only mildly supresses - but it cranks up your free T temporarily.

 

[genarr3]

I've read two studies concerning Proviron. Both determined that it doesn't suppress natural test production.
I've never read anything that says it does.

 

[Juice Authority]

say someone is doing a pct with 300-100-50 clomid, 20mg nolvadex/day, and hcg-2500iu-every 4 days for three weeks--would taking proviron interfere with the recovery process and keep u shut down even longer?? thanx, liftr486

You might want to read the thread I started over at FG on the topic.

http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/...88&perpage=35&highlight=Proviron&pagenumber=1

Proviron is minimally suppressive the hpta at normal testosterone levels (at least that's what studies suggest - see below). However, once you complete a cycle you're already in a supressed state so adding an androgen like Proviron right after a cycle could and probably would slow down the recovery process. It would be best to start Proviron after you've completely recovered and to prevent estrogen rebound.

Int J Gynaecol Obstet 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8 Related Articles, Links


The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Provirion - 25-50mg's ED

- Acts like an anti-e since it's a DHT and doesn't aromatize
- To help keep estrogen levels in check
- To help erectile dysfunction
- It does not lower FSH (like Clomid)
- It does not lower IGF-1
- It is not site specific, removing estrogen throughout the body
- It lowers SHBG (which Clomid raises) thereby incresing testosterone
- It is side effect free in the recommended dosages. (i.e. vision disturbances, acne, etc) - unlike clomid
It can not lower your e too much (like A-dex does)
- since it is not an estrogen "blocker" it does not have the possible rebound effect of nolva.
- It does not afect mood negitively like Clomid.
- It gets you hard as a rock!
- It gets you dick hard as a rock!

Nelson's post cycle formula - (Maca, Chrysin, Milk Thistle, Cndium, etc).

 

[Random987]

Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7. Related Articles, Links


The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).

Itil TM, Michael ST, Shapiro DM, Itil KZ.

Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial

 

[test-monkey]

Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7. Related Articles, Links


The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).

Itil TM, Michael ST, Shapiro DM, Itil KZ.

Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial

the dose in this study is very high 300-450mg a day is a lot maybe that's why they had decreased testosterone

 

[Juice Authority]

Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7. Related Articles, Links


The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).

Itil TM, Michael ST, Shapiro DM, Itil KZ.

Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial

Find some clinically relevant data. I came across that study a while ago and the results would be obvious. Proviron is an androgen. We're talking about a daily dose of 50mg's not 400mg.

 

[solidspine]

Re: Re: Proviron

Provirion - 25-50mg's ED

- Acts like an anti-e since it's a DHT and doesn't aromatize
- To help keep estrogen levels in check
- To help erectile dysfunction
- It does not lower FSH (like Clomid)
- It does not lower IGF-1
- It is not site specific, removing estrogen throughout the body
- It lowers SHBG (which Clomid raises) thereby incresing testosterone
- It is side effect free in the recommended dosages. (i.e. vision disturbances, acne, etc) - unlike clomid
It can not lower your e too much (like A-dex does)
- since it is not an estrogen "blocker" it does not have the possible rebound effect of nolva.
- It does not afect mood negitively like Clomid.
- It gets you hard as a rock!
- It gets you dick hard as a rock!


What more would you want?