Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below hey i was wondering if one eca is bbetter for ripped abs and preservationn of muscle...ripped fuel , xendarine, or hydroxycut....hydroxycut i kno has all them advertisments but they are hype many people say...they say rippied ABS IN 28 DAYS GUARANTEE!.. i hate that...which is best and along with cardio and a good diet...anyssugeestions on diet and cardio trainng and supps? i tried everything wit diet and cardio to switch things up but never ccan see my abs...i eat low carb and hig-mod fat train 4 times a week with 30 min of cardio hiit and regular 3 times a week,,anything wrong?? i supp wit flax oil too..im eating 200 calories below mainttence and do not et more than 60carbs a day
problem..help!!! diet n eca
- Thread starter missyd143
- Start date
2 other considerations...
If you can't see your abs, it's because
1) they are covered by bodyfat
or
2) the abs aren't sufficiently developed
or both.
To test #2, tense your abs a little. Can you feel the distinct bumps and ridges of your abs - like 6 little cobblestones? If you answered "no" to #2, you need to further develop your abs.
Some people will dispute this, especially men who tend to already have pretty strong and developed abs from other physical activites. Women on the other hand often have weak and undeveloped abs. And those will never look like a six-pack, no matter how low the bf.
My midsection used to be concave - no abs to speak of! Doing weighted resistance exercises helped bring them out. Once they came out enough, I cut back on the weighted resistance. Once your abs are sufficently developed, then it's all a matter of bodyfat.
If you can't see your abs, it's because
1) they are covered by bodyfat
or
2) the abs aren't sufficiently developed
or both.
To test #2, tense your abs a little. Can you feel the distinct bumps and ridges of your abs - like 6 little cobblestones? If you answered "no" to #2, you need to further develop your abs.
Some people will dispute this, especially men who tend to already have pretty strong and developed abs from other physical activites. Women on the other hand often have weak and undeveloped abs. And those will never look like a six-pack, no matter how low the bf.
My midsection used to be concave - no abs to speak of! Doing weighted resistance exercises helped bring them out. Once they came out enough, I cut back on the weighted resistance. Once your abs are sufficently developed, then it's all a matter of bodyfat.
"people have said u need fat to burn fat"
Sure, but why not burn the fat on your body rather than the fat you eat?
In reality, you need carbs to burn fat, not fat to burn fat. Man, where does this stuff come from? Ah yes, bodybuilder biochemical fairy tale land. The issue has to do with the Kreb's cycle and oxaloacetate that can only be made from pyruvate that comes from carbs or protein. You have to have oxaloacetate (don't confuse this with oxandrolone) in order to metabolize fat. The only place that oxaloacetate can come from is the breakdown of amino acids (i.e., muscle) in a low carb state. So, when you are in a low carb state, in order to keep fat oxidation going (assuming you're pulling some Krebs cycle intermediates out) you have to break down skeletal muscle. Why do that when you can just eat some carbs?
"and u think i should cut out the modfatand add in mod carb? and low fat? and some days go low carb low fat and high protein???"
YES, YES, YES
W6
Sure, but why not burn the fat on your body rather than the fat you eat?
In reality, you need carbs to burn fat, not fat to burn fat. Man, where does this stuff come from? Ah yes, bodybuilder biochemical fairy tale land. The issue has to do with the Kreb's cycle and oxaloacetate that can only be made from pyruvate that comes from carbs or protein. You have to have oxaloacetate (don't confuse this with oxandrolone) in order to metabolize fat. The only place that oxaloacetate can come from is the breakdown of amino acids (i.e., muscle) in a low carb state. So, when you are in a low carb state, in order to keep fat oxidation going (assuming you're pulling some Krebs cycle intermediates out) you have to break down skeletal muscle. Why do that when you can just eat some carbs?
"and u think i should cut out the modfatand add in mod carb? and low fat? and some days go low carb low fat and high protein???"
YES, YES, YES
W6
Wilson6, this stuff comes from the diet discussion board which missy also frequents. There is a pack of moronic pro-Atkin's fanatics over there and they are spreading the gospel. The extra annoying thing is that none of them are even bodybuilders!?? And MR X (one of the mods) is a big fan of CKD dieting so he encourages and spams a lot of that too. I should just stay away from that board 'cause it raises my BP.
SteelWeaver
New member
Yayy! It makes me so happy when people say don't go too low carb, because it scares the sh** out of me (even though I haven't even done it properly yet). 
Good luck on the abs issue missy. I'd probably skip the eca until your diet's perfect. Use it as a last resort. Are you in a hurry? Just my 2 cents.
Good luck on the abs issue missy. I'd probably skip the eca until your diet's perfect. Use it as a last resort. Are you in a hurry? Just my 2 cents.
wilson6 said:
W6, can you explain this Kreb's cycle and having to "oxaloacetate"? I have no degree in biology or exercise physiology but they are definitely subjects I am very interested in and would take if I had the ways and means. I'm continually trying to expand my knowledge in those areas. I am also one under the impression that you need fat to burn fat because in essence a lower carbohydrate, higher fat diet, forces the body to shift it's fuel source to fats INSTEAD of carbohydrates and the idea that keeping the carbohydrates low keeps your insulin from spiking because you cannot burn fat in the presence of insulin. So by shifting the body's fuel source to burning fats, then the body should burn fat in an environment of low carbs and as long as you're getting in enough protein and weight training then the body will use your fat stores for fuel. I have personally used a similar low carb type diet and have gone from 22% body fat to 16.6% body fat in three months and have maintained my weight. The last 3 weeks of my cycling carbs diet, I gained 2.2 lbs of muscle and lost 3 lbs of fat. Quick rundown of my diet, it was:
47%P/11%C/42%F for 2 days at a time. Another day I'd go 34%/34%/33%. Another day 37%/32%/31%. And yet another day at 39%/23%/38%. I had nice success with this. Not sure if this is what type of diet you are referring to as a "where does this stuff come from" plan but if so, I'm looking for detailed explanation. I also know of several other reputable bodybuilders who have leaned out more and quicker going lower carb and higher fat (EFA's of course). So please explain your theory/fact. I'm just another bodybuilder wanting what everyone else wants, to know what works, what doesn't and why, like the scientific explanation if there is one. Thanks in advance for your time.
Though I wholeheartedly agree with Wilson6 that carbs are essential for optimal bodybuilding health, I will admit that a CKD diet can work well for some folks. Remember that this diet is still around 25% protein, which can provide enough dietary substrate for gluconeogenesis without compromising skeletal muscle excessively. Glycerol can also be converted to glucose without going through the Kreb's cycle, and glycerol is freely available on a ketogenic diet because it is a by-product of fatty acid metabolism. However CKD is difficult for most people to optimize, and it still requies a high carb refeed at least once a week to provide muscle glycogen for workouts. I know of very few women that have done well on a CKD diet.
Last edited:
for spaterson
hey i was wondering if i should eat more carbs or fat to get abs...in your diet mentioned above i dont understand it...at the end it says ketones are bad because muscle is spared.....is this true? i mean then why do people lose fat on ketosis diets? can u give me a sample of what u eat to cut..and cardio plan
hey i was wondering if i should eat more carbs or fat to get abs...in your diet mentioned above i dont understand it...at the end it says ketones are bad because muscle is spared.....is this true? i mean then why do people lose fat on ketosis diets? can u give me a sample of what u eat to cut..and cardio plan
Yes, that's 100% correct. Free fatty acids cannot be used as a substrate for gluconeogenesis, but the glycerol backbone of the triglyceride can easily be used for this purpose without even going through the kreb'c cycle. Although a single molecule of glycerol won't give ya much bang for your buck, your body has a lot of glycerol released while on a ketogenic diet since you are burning so much fat as fuel. But the glycerol is still not enough for total glucose requirements....some protein is still needed for gluconeogenesis.
Phew! Good stuff, I finally digested it all. Well, sort of, I was right, the Kreb's cycle was way over my head, wish I could've taken some more biology type classes, I would've really liked to get into this stuff. Took me a few reads even to comphrehend the basic version. So I'm thinking, my diet is working okay cause I am actually not going into a true ketogenic diet, which is what I pretty much knew anyway. So apparently I am still taking in enough carbs to burn fat without comprimising skeletal muscle as evidenced by the fact that I gained 2.2 lbs of muscle and lost 3 lbs of fat in the last 3 weeks of my diet. I'm doing a very similar diet now and this Friday I will get calipered and see if it is still working. If not, tweak time.
So now I'm thinking that for me, the higher fat intake I'm doing is basically just so I can still get in enough calories while keeping my carbohydrates low (to keep insulin in check) and without going really high protein. I've got my protein high enough as it is, I think, as high as 270 grams a day. But I have known people to get leaner on a higher fat, low carbohydrate diet (basically what I'm doing 4 out of 7 days) so maybe the reason they say you have to eat fat to burn fat is simply because of the assumption that eating higher fat means you are eating low carb keeping your insulin levels in check, enough to really kick up the fat burning process. MS, W6, anyone, thoughts, comments?
So now I'm thinking that for me, the higher fat intake I'm doing is basically just so I can still get in enough calories while keeping my carbohydrates low (to keep insulin in check) and without going really high protein. I've got my protein high enough as it is, I think, as high as 270 grams a day. But I have known people to get leaner on a higher fat, low carbohydrate diet (basically what I'm doing 4 out of 7 days) so maybe the reason they say you have to eat fat to burn fat is simply because of the assumption that eating higher fat means you are eating low carb keeping your insulin levels in check, enough to really kick up the fat burning process. MS, W6, anyone, thoughts, comments?
MS said:
Yeah, I know, wasn't really looking for advice, more like looking for the actual scientific explanations as to why what I am doing works. I just like knowing, ya know? And that way I can explain it to others. I run my own supplement store and one of the things I do is give out a lot of diet advice and it really helps if I can explain to the people why something will work.
Yeah, that's an idea, sure would help my boredom just sitting here in the store too. Now I just have to find out where a library is and actually find the time to go look. Just moved into this area not too long ago so I don't know where everything is yet. Wonder if I will even be able to comprehend it anyway? One way to find out I guess.
Thanks for your replies MS and Spatts, appreciate it!
Similar threads
