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Powerlifters??????

T

Temple

New member
Maybe I need to head over to the "dark side" forum for this but I think ya finally got me. I read the short intense thread and it occured to me that what I have been doing just isn't working for a number of reasons. Can you help me out with beginning workouts...I don't have a clue what a 4 board press is so where do I go to see one???
Maybe the link to the westside site and a brief outline for the best way for someone who hasn't got a clue to navigate it....
Also I train alone most of the time, can I do this without a spotter other than ME days???
I don't know where to start or what to ask so can someone get me headed in the right direction??????
 
Project, that's an interesting link. I have a question. What about days off? Do the routines on that page mean 4 days on then 3 days off? Or do you put in days off based on your own schedule?
 
makedah said:
Project, that's an interesting link. I have a question. What about days off? Do the routines on that page mean 4 days on then 3 days off? Or do you put in days off based on your own schedule?
Click to expand...

LOL...I took the link down after spatts post, but here it is again...

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/9week-training-program.htm

Before I took it down, here's the split we follow:

M: Max effort squat
T: Sled drag
W: Max effort bench
R: Sled drag
F: Dynamic effort squat
Sat: Off day/bodybuilder accessory work
Sun: Dynamic effor bench

Arrange it according to your schedule, but this way you have a break between each type of workout.
 
So sled dragging counts as cardio and not "training" (weights)?

I know spatts loves to preach the gospel of AR :D When do you do that?
 
makedah said:
So sled dragging counts as cardio and not "training" (weights)?

I know spatts loves to preach the gospel of AR :D When do you do that?
Click to expand...

Yes, sled dragging counts as cardio.

We do AR every day, generally for whatever is sore, or whatever we did that day. The AR thread has great examples of what to do.

She's said it over and over, but AR's not another workout, but something that's supposed to feel good, and get the blood flowing.
 
Oh and another question. When that schedule says to "drop the reps to one and continue working up to a one rep max" does it mean to stop between sets and add more weight? Or work up to a one rep max over the course of the schedule?
 
makedah said:
Oh and another question. When that schedule says to "drop the reps to one and continue working up to a one rep max" does it mean to stop between sets and add more weight? Or work up to a one rep max over the course of the schedule?
Click to expand...

You'll work up to a point where it starts to feel heavy, then do 1 rep sets, and add more weight until you miss an attempt. That's what we're doing, generally, when we talk about setting a new PR.
 
Spatts...that is so sweet of you!!! I have to go do a bit of cardio before I lose my mind and then I'll shoot ya an email...
 
Okay y'all. It's finally coming together. Most of the beginner PL routines I've seen have been too confusing for me (moves I'm unfamiliar with, and oh the math!). But now it's getting clearer.

I wasn't thinking about switching the days around. I just didn't know (until Spatts' post) where the 'breaks' would go (in the routine on the linked page) for rest or cardio. I understand that AR isn't a workout, but I just didn't get that it didn't have to be "scheduled" in a certain way.

I know I'll have to modify some of the moves because of equipment, but I'm going to give this a try.
 
I have some experience as a BBer trying to navigate the whole WSB PL thing.... I exchanged TONS of e-mail with Arioch on the subject. I never did actually DO the program though, but just b/c I moved into OL instead.

Some general Tips - have a sled MADE for you instead of spending, I think, $130. A piece of sheet metal, hook for chain, and little lip so dirt doesnt build up on it. Arioch suggested I go to a junk yard & look cute to get some men to do it for me as a favor.

Besides changing the days on which I do exercises, the biggest change for me would have been doing sets of 5-6 reps at the MOST, some sets of triples, instead of 8-10 reps. This & sled dragging you can start right away - so you can begin to transition your workout style as you're still trying to make sense of it all (It took a lot of time & I still never really felt like I grasped it all!)

Arioch also suggested NOT training with chains & bands immediately. (& I mean bands on weights - I don't mean AR with bands)
 
because we will be butt deep in snow here shortly I will have to do my sled dragging in the shop which is large enough but I will have to put something on the bottom of it so that it won't scratch the cement. A scratch in my husband's shop floor would result in my painful and swift death.
 
You do realize that my parents will think I have lost my fricking mind when I show up out at the farm with a sled and start dragging it around the barn....
 
Temple01 said:
because we will be butt deep in snow here shortly I will have to do my sled dragging in the shop which is large enough but I will have to put something on the bottom of it so that it won't scratch the cement. A scratch in my husband's shop floor would result in my painful and swift death.
Click to expand...

You can use carpet....

As a substitute for sled dragging you can load up a wheel barrow with a couple hundred pounds of plates and push it around.
 
"As a substitute for sled dragging you can load up a wheel barrow with a couple hundred pounds of plates and push it
around."!!!

Now THAT'S more my style, though I prefer to use wet cement or bricks, and push it UP and DOWN an incline. You get a 'reverse sled' effect fighting a wheel barrow full of bricks trying to roll down hill. It's a real buzz. You can also drag bags of sand up flights of stairs :)
 
MS said:
"As a substitute for sled dragging you can load up a wheel barrow with a couple hundred pounds of plates and push it
around."!!!

Now THAT'S more my style, though I prefer to use wet cement or bricks, and push it UP and DOWN an incline. You get a 'reverse sled' effect fighting a wheel barrow full of bricks trying to roll down hill. It's a real buzz. You can also drag bags of sand up flights of stairs :)
Click to expand...

:shocked:
 
Sounds fun. Wonder if I could get my coach to buy into it.

He says, "We clean, we snatch, we do moves to support that, & that's it." This means cleaning, snatching, variations thereof, squatting & variations thereof, pressing (push press, push jerk & military press) & pulls (RDL & Clean pulls). That's IT!

I could still go for some pushing & dragging! ;)
 
DAMN!! My mom's just FINISHED doing all the alterations to her house. I wonder if construction pays as much as personal training ....???

I am DEFINITELY gonna be heading the PL training way next year - you guys do MUCH more fun stuff than simply pumping iron :)

I cannot WAIT :D

(spatts, prepare for some threads in the new year :) - yeah yeah, I'll do the search too, but I like things personal :D )
 
Cool! Thanks spatts - we have a date in the new year :D

I was keeping up with Corn's thread for a while, but then it just got too long ... :(

Great, my bulking programme is all sorted for next year :D I'm gonna be a big (and STRONG) m'f***er, lol
 
Thank You!!!!!!!!
It will take me a bit to get this downloaded...for some reason I am having to reboot my computer after each one or the next one won't load. Anyone know what is up with that?????
I will be back with ????????????
 
Spatts, Those video's are great. As you know I don't have anyone in my area that I know who trains PL. These video's will help alot. Will you continue posting them?

lovemymuscle
 
Temple, try right-clicking on the links, and saving them to your computer. Then you can open them from there. Never heard of that problem before tho. Are you getting any error messages?

And lovemymuscle, yes, we will continue making and posting videos. There are others on the Asylum Numbers thread, if you're curious.
 
Temple01 said:
Project, yes, it is saying that the application has timed out...
I'll try the right click...
Click to expand...

A few people have had problems with getting the vids to load straight into media player, and I'm guessing that's because of our web host, but I don't know.

Another option would be to close Windows Media Player, and left-click on it again.

Hope the right click works! :)
 
MMMMMM....okay

Arch back goodmornings
Your feet are in a really wide stance, correct?
You are keeping your legs straight, Hannibal is bending his knees almost like a squating move - why the difference?
The purpose of the chain is that it adds more resistance the further up he comes - correct???

I see what you mean by explosive movement, how do you accomplish this without increased chance of injury especially for the beginner???

Obviously we are going to have to invest in plywood and bands. What bands do we need to start with? Where do we get them?

What are the dimensions of the boxes and how many different boxes will we need to build?
Kneeling Power Squats...how much stress does that put on the knees?

Glute/Ham raise - can get my hyperextension to work for that as for the abs.

Side bends with heavy dumbells???? but won't that make my waist thick <bats eyelashes>
bwahahahahahah

Thanks MUCH!!!!!!!!!!
 
Temple01 said:
What are the dimensions of the boxes and how many different boxes will we need to build?
Click to expand...

The boxes are 2' X 2'. They are built out of 2X4's forming a square and then one running through the middle for support. Covered with 3/4" plywood and you have a 4" Box. Build a couple of those. And then you can get 1" rubber mats to stack on the boxes and prevent slippage. Best place to get the mats is a Horse Supply store. They sell 4'X6' Rubber Stall Mats...that you can cut up and make 6 mats.
 
spatts said:
Oh....and she needs to build boards for board presses too.
Click to expand...

The boards are made out of 2'X6". They should be 24" long, and always cut one of the boards 30" so you can cut out a 6" handle. You should make a 2 Board, 3 Board, 4 Board and 5 Board. They should be nailed or glued together.

And what I mean by handle is this, if you are making a 3 Board. Cut 2 pieces to 24"...and one piece to 30". Cut a notch on both sides of the extra 6" so it forms a handle. Then put it in the middle of the other 24" pieces and there you have your 3 Board with a handle.
 
Hannibal said:


The boards are made out of 2'X6". They should be 24" long, and always cut one of the boards 30" so you can cut out a 6" handle. You should make a 2 Board, 3 Board, 4 Board and 5 Board. They should be nailed or glued together.

And what I mean by handle is this, if you are making a 3 Board. Cut 2 pieces to 24"...and one piece to 30". Cut a notch on both sides of the extra 6" so it forms a handle. Then put it in the middle of the other 24" pieces and there you have your 3 Board with a handle.
Click to expand...

Bob Villa doesn't have anything on you guys.
 
spatts said:
Temple, Elite for your weight is 909 pounds total (on the three lifts).

The USAPL records for YOUR state (and the USAPL is tested, so these are about the LOWEST the records will be):

Squat...363
Bench...242
Dead...528
Total...1133

...and that age group goes up to 49.

:D
Click to expand...

Well now, it looks like I have my work cut out for me.....
out of curiosity how long does it take one to go from wusgirl to Elite?????
 
Pink Space Biscuit said:


Bob Villa doesn't have anything on you guys.
Click to expand...

Yeah, of all the things we film, we didn't get footage of Hannibal and I building boxes with a smoking circular saw.
 
makedah said:
Just letting you guys know that your generous advice and videos are not in vain...

I did ME bench day today. And I LIKED it! :D
Click to expand...

It's nice to know our work is appreciated. :)

What'd you do for ME bench?
 
I did regular barbell bench presses. I should ask now if there is a way to do board presses without an assistant to balance the boards on my torso.

Here's what I did. Don't laugh at my numbers, I'm just starting!!! The weights for less than 45# were done with smaller, pre-weighted bars.

warm up 2 x 5 20#
1 x 3 30#
1 x 3 40#
1 x 3 45#
1 x 3 50#
1 x 1 55#
1 x 1 60#
1 x 1 65#
failed on 70#

and then: 5x5 for tricep kickbacks, lat pulldowns and db presses for shoulders

20 min elliptical machine

---

It was a big breakthrough for me mentally - I wrestle with fear of failure (all the time, not just gym-wise), so I wouldn't attempt heavier weights for fear that I couldn't make the lift. Today, going up and up for the 1 rep sets was a big boost for me. And failing on 70# made me face my fear, and showed me what to look for in terms of the last rep I can do safely on the bench press.
 
makedah said:
I should ask now if there is a way to do board presses without an assistant to balance the boards on my torso.
Click to expand...

There is no real easy way to do board presses without help. However, if you MUST...the best way is with two t-shirts. Put on two t-shirts, and then place the boards in between the shirts to hold it in place.

Best idea is to find someone to help you...
 
makedah said:
I did regular barbell bench presses. I should ask now if there is a way to do board presses without an assistant to balance the boards on my torso.

Here's what I did. Don't laugh at my numbers, I'm just starting!!! The weights for less than 45# were done with smaller, pre-weighted bars.

warm up 2 x 5 20#
1 x 3 30#
1 x 3 40#
1 x 3 45#
1 x 3 50#
1 x 1 55#
1 x 1 60#
1 x 1 65#
failed on 70#

and then: 5x5 for tricep kickbacks, lat pulldowns and db presses for shoulders

20 min elliptical machine

---

It was a big breakthrough for me mentally - I wrestle with fear of failure (all the time, not just gym-wise), so I wouldn't attempt heavier weights for fear that I couldn't make the lift. Today, going up and up for the 1 rep sets was a big boost for me. And failing on 70# made me face my fear, and showed me what to look for in terms of the last rep I can do safely on the bench press.
Click to expand...

Hey, no one here's gonna laugh at your numbers. I started benching with the bar. :)

On your accessory work: I gather that's 5 sets of 5 reps? Can I ask why 5 reps?

The one rep max stuff is a lot of fun. It's one of my favorite things about powerlifting.

Do you have a spotter around, just in case?
 
I saw 5x5 somewhere (3 working sets) and I've just been using it. What do you think? I'm open to suggestions.

No, I don't have a spotter. But since I'm at the gym, I suppose I could ask nicely...

Thanks for the boards tip, Hannibal.
 
makedah said:
I saw 5x5 somewhere (3 working sets) and I've just been using it. What do you think? I'm open to suggestions.
Click to expand...

Well, we usually do 4 sets of 10-15 reps. You'll see in Dave's article that I posted above a variety... 4 sets of 10, 4 sets of 8, etc. Undoubtedly someone's got a better explanation of the theory behind that.
 
So, what did you do yesterday?????
I am still downloading the sled pulling stuff...gotta get a faster modem. My husband will be posting soon, got him registered last night so he and Hannibal can work out equipment and such...
 
LOL I figured it involved dragging the sled but what should WE do on day 2....do we do ALL of that...I need to finish downloading and watch them so I know what ALL of that is and then ask questions, huh????
 
spatts said:
I imagine we will be doing a board press tonight, working up to a single (1RM), then shirt up (bench shirts) and work up to a 1RM in the shirt (still trying to stretch mine out. Almost got 297 down in it).
Click to expand...

Actually since this is a "full range week" we are doing the Decline Press for ME work. Then our second move will be some type of high (3 or 4) board press with a close grip on the delcline. Hoping that the angle of the bench will force us to press towards our feet and really hit the triceps hard. Might add some band tension as well. Then some lat and shouler work.
 
I have a couple of questions about DE SQ/DL day. I didn't want to post them on the sample workouts thread, because that seems more like a "reference" thread.


I did DE SQ/DL day on Friday. I didn't get a chance to make inquiries here beforehand about rep ranges, so I tried to piece together what info I could find from here, other sites, and the link Project posted. This is what I did. Critiques are welcome!

box squats (improvised and used a low chair that was in the gym)
2 warm up sets with a light (non-Olympic) bar
10 x 2 45# (Olympic bar only)

speed deads
2 warm up sets w/ 30#
6 x 2 50#

ab machine crunches 4 x 10
side bends 1 x 8 12#, 3 x 8 20#
hyperextensions 4 x 8
step ups 2 x 10 w/ 30# bb (I did these because my gym has no glute-ham raise machine. I stopped 2 sets early because I got dizzy!)


I'm going to try the cable-type (pull throughs, standing crunches) core work next time.

In retrospect, I feel I could have gone heavier on the sq & dl. But since I don't know my max for those lifts yet, I had to make a guess.


Here are my questions:

Accessory work for the DE and ME SQ/DL days list abs, low back, obliques, hips and glutes/hams/calves. But in the workouts posted so far, you don't seem to do five different moves for accessory work. Is it a matter of combining moves (a move that targets hips as well as glutes/hams/calves) or just skipping certain body parts sometimes (to be targeted on another day)?

Spatts, when you said that you warmed up for DE squat with the bar and then added weight and then dropped the warm up set back to 3 reps - I didn't quite understand that. What did you build the weight up to for the second warm up set(s)?
 
makedah, let me see if I can shed some light. First of all if you lift in a "fitness center" and have to improvise a "box"..the best thing to use in an aerobic step. This allows you to adjust the height so that you are squatting to just below parallel.

Secondly, Speed Deads should be pulled for singles. And the ab work should be at the end of the workout. Would have done the hypers and step ups before hand. Also find some spotters that you trust and test your 1RM on all lifts. This is invaluable. Sometimes you can "guess" what your max is...but it is just easier to know for sure. Especially when you are just setting up your program.

As far as exercise selection...we are a bit spoiled as we have alot of the toys. The Reverse Hyper and Glut Ham Raise Machine are the two most effective machines for the posterior chain...bar none. So we almost always do them on DE SQ/DL Day. Knowing that we are going to do both those exercises and an ab excersise...thats 3 of the 5 already decided on. And then we know the first move is going to be Box Squats...the only decision we have to make is what is the second move. So we rotate between the speed deads that you did...and some form of good morning. Since you don't have all the equipment you will have to use other movements.

As far as warmup progression...I will post mine.

Warm Ups:
1 set of 5 with just the bar + green bands
1 set of 3 @ 133 + green bands
1 set of 2 @ 221 + green bands
1 set of 2 @ 265 + green bands

WORK SETS:
8 sets of 2 @ 309 + green bands
 
Thanks for the info, hannibal.

On the box squats, I'd already lugged an aerobic step and risers over to the squat cage when I spotted that chair sitting there... :o I'll use a step until I can get someone to make me a box.
 
How do we establish starting weights for each exercise? Do we just feel our way into it for the first couple of weeks or do we need to do a 1RM and then use a %?

We will have to do some improvising until we get the rest of our equipment taken care of.
 
Temple01 said:
How do we establish starting weights for each exercise? Do we just feel our way into it for the first couple of weeks or do we need to do a 1RM and then use a %?
Click to expand...

You really need to go ahead and test all three lifts so that you have a starting point and a weight to base your percentages off of.
 
I agree with Spatts - just start adding weight to the bar until you can't complete the number of reps you were supposed to. For me, the hard part is finding a weight I can do 5x5 with (for example). I rarely seem to make 5 on the last set. Just factor in a little more time for those "trying the weight" sets - it's taken me a couple workouts with a lot of warmup sets before I to find my poundage. And I still ended up too light on the GMs today. I'd never done them with an arched back, and totally under-estimated my poundage. After several warmup sets, I just picked a weight and finished out my sets with it. I was just spending too much time trying to find the weight.

I don't have a spotter either. For deads, not a problem; for chest and squats, a problem. For chest, I'll break down and occasionally use the smith - at least I can rack it if I get in trouble. For some reason, I have a mental block using a smith for squats. So I'm squatting free, without a spotter. It sucks.
 
Okay, I've tried all four days. I'm sold. :D

I don't have questions at this point. (The sample workouts thread is great, and I've been reading at elitefts, too) But as always, critiques are welcome!


DE Bench (Sunday)
10 x 3 40# (60% of 1rm [65] is 39#)

6x8 accessory work: lying tricep extensions, yates row, shoulder presses


ME SQ/DL (Monday)

Bent-knee GMS
2 x 8 with light bar
2 x3 45# (flaked and did the second set without adding weight to the bar)
1 x 3 50#
1 x 3 55#
1 x 3 60#
1 x 3 65#
1 x 3 70#
1 x 3 75#
1 x 3 80#
1 x 3 85#
1 x 3 90#
1 x 3 95#
1 x 3 100# (3 RM)

GOD, talk about not knowing one's own strength. If I hadn't fried my shoulders and right wrist working up to 100# so slowly, I could have gone for singles.


Tried to do barbell lunges for the assistance work, but my knees and wrist protested. Only did half a set after warming up.

All other accessory work 4 x10: back hyperextensions, standing crunches, weighted side bends
 
spatts said:
Looks good...glad you surprised yourself!

Don't forget to pick TWO max effort moves, if you can.
Click to expand...

I actually got a little verklempt when I was piling on the weight near the end.

Okay, didn't know there could be TWO max moves. I'll give it a whirl.
 
makedah said:
Okay, didn't know there could be TWO max moves. I'll give it a whirl.
Click to expand...

Well the second move on max effort day is a supplemental. And you generally work up to heavy weights in the 3-5 rep range. Not completely a max effort move....but really heavy.
 
makedah said:
GOD, talk about not knowing one's own strength. If I hadn't fried my shoulders and right wrist working up to 100# so slowly, I could have gone for singles.
Click to expand...

Looks good...now that you have an idea of your strength on the exercise you will be able to get there with fewer sets and have something left in the tank when you go for a new PR. For the record, GM's are best done with a 3 rep max like you did. They are the exception on ME day, in that you dont take them to a single.
 
Hannibal said:
Well the second move on max effort day is a supplemental. And you generally work up to heavy weights in the 3-5 rep range. Not completely a max effort move....but really heavy.
Click to expand...

It 'gelled' last night that there were two related moves on EACH day. But I just didn't know that it should be done in a manner similar to the max move ("heavy" on ME day, for example) and not in the rep range for accessory work. But now I notice that in the "sample workouts" thread, Spatts starts talking about accessory work AFTER discussing that move. Okay, I'm getting it...

When you say 3-5 rep range, are you working up a single 3-5 rep set or several sets? I remember on DE SQ/DL day, the Asylum did DLs for singles. But I don't know if that's just because they're DLs.
 
Is there a way to do glute-ham raises without a special station? I was trying but couldn't work anything out. Reverse hypers were OK - backwards on the hyper-extension station holding a dumbbell between my ankles. Thanks a lot.
 
Spatts - you are a STUD...ain't no ette to it.
Amazing how so little can do so much.
Lets see
Power Arch GM's
got 115 for 3 and think maybe that was a bit much for starters
I don't have the hubby's #'s in front of me.
Kneeling Power Squats
115 for 3 on those as well. No bands yet but that was enough to get a feel for it. That move is a whole different animal.
Glute Ham Raise
gonna have to buy some equip for this as my hyper wouldn't work and I was not as smart as Candi Bar to go the other way. That is okay as my back is pretty stressed right now.
Side Bends with DB's - well, they were side bends with dumbells

Changing from BB tempo to PL tempo is way different and more difficult than I thought. I didn't sweat much doing a BB workout - I am sweating. I do hurt already so tomorrow if you don't hear from me it means that I couldn't get out of bed. Protein-water-protein-water-protein-water.
 
Hannibal said:


You can use carpet....

As a substitute for sled dragging you can load up a wheel barrow with a couple hundred pounds of plates and push it around.
Click to expand...

My sled isn't done so we loaded 290 in the wheelbarrow and pushed it up and pulled it back over and over and over and over and over....
trade off
etc
etc
etc

I like it... I like it alot!!!!!!
My heart almost staged a rebellion as it is not used to beating that hard or that fast but damn that was fun!!!!
 
Just wanted to say that I'm still at it...

After having to leave the gym early on a couple of days because I was dizzy and/or fatigued, I realized that this style of lifting is not just something I can "tack on" to my life without cleaning up my bad habits. I used to go to the gym on an empty stomach - that SO doesn't work anymore. And I'm seeing for myself that, as I read in an article on GPP, I have to get in shape to lift, not just lift to get in shape! Now, if only I can drag my sleepy butt out of bed on non-training days for cardio! :o

That said, I'm really enjoying the challenge. It's whuppin' my butt, but I'm having a great time.
 
:o *waves* It was me. But as you know, I'm "shy." I knew Makedah hadn't been doing WSB long and wanted to know more from someone who was new to it.

It's time to change up my routine. Over the past month or so I've come to realize how much I like lifting and the strength and power aspects are what appeal to me the most.
 
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