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Post Up Your PCT Experiences!

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
What are you using?

What are you planing or looking forward to use?

What will you never use again?

What have you learned abut PCT that was different than you once thought?

Let's hear it!
 
first cycle used nolvadex

40/40/20/20 protocol

and natural tets booster supplement

stopped using nolvadex week 3, sinc ei was starting to notice loss in strength, shit mood, loss of energy etc

the second is stopped using nolvadex all my strength returned and so did my sex drive

testicles grew back start week 2 of PCT

i stayed on the natural test booster all PCT, and 4 weeks after, sex drive was great

Yet another example of Nolva making things worse. Glad it worked out for you bro.
 
After being off cycle for 18 wks with no luck recovering and extensive pct. HCG!!! brought the boys back and recharged a suppressed sex drive. TRS did nothing for me, hcgenerate did nothing for me, I couldn't handle the sides of Clomid so fuk that stuff. Next time I will do HCG on cycle then hit Nolva, Post cycle-Unleashed stack, and down tons of Tribb for PCT.
 
I keep all of my cycles between 10-13 weeks.

I just finished my last cycle, 10 weeks of cyp 400mg/week. HCG during the cycle 500ius Mon and Thurs.

PCT was HCG 750ius the Thurs, Mon & Thurs (three times) after my last shot of test (which was on a Monday). Four days after the HCG (two weeks after last shot of test) I ran clomid 100mg ED for the first week and then 50mg ED for the next two weeks.

I also used Unleashed, Post Cycle, and Primordial Performance's test booster stack (Sustain, EndoAmp, Toco)

I got blood work last week and everything was in range except for my LDL and HDL. My total cholesterol is under 75. My HDL and LDL were about the same at 35! I need to eat more egg whites and bacon to get my bad cholesterol up. lol

I also take a ton of supplements for joints and lipids etc.

IMO I have used nolva and clomid for PCT and clomid is by far the best for me. The emotional sides actually calm me down because I get irritable after a cycle and I see a quicker return to my base blood levels quicker with clomid.

I am thinking of running a peptide during my PCT next time.
 
Last PCT was a natty test booster + clomid @ 50/50/25/25, nolva @ 40/40/20/20.

That shit had me in a mess, watchin re-runs of little house on the prairie and crying my eyes out...that Ingles family had it tough i tell ya :bawling:
I had a shit recovery.

PCT at the end of my current cycle includes Unleashed,post cycle,TRS, hcgenerate...which will be followed with 4 weeks of BRIDGE and GEAR.
 
After being off cycle for 18 wks with no luck recovering and extensive pct. HCG!!! brought the boys back and recharged a suppressed sex drive. TRS did nothing for me, hcgenerate did nothing for me, I couldn't handle the sides of Clomid so fuk that stuff. Next time I will do HCG on cycle then hit Nolva, Post cycle-Unleashed stack, and down tons of Tribb for PCT.

Nolva has similar sides as clomid and too much Trib can cause a rise in estrogen.
 
Nolva 40/40/20/20 and Clomid 100/100/50/50 worked great for me.What about emotional sides- just don't be a pussy's if you want to keep what you gain just suck it up and stick with the protocol
Never tried other PCT supplements but going to experiment with some needto staff
 
Last PCT was a natty test booster + clomid @ 50/50/25/25, nolva @ 40/40/20/20.

That shit had me in a mess, watchin re-runs of little house on the prairie and crying my eyes out...that Ingles family had it tough i tell ya :bawling:
I had a shit recovery.

PCT at the end of my current cycle includes Unleashed,post cycle,TRS, hcgenerate...which will be followed with 4 weeks of BRIDGE and GEAR.

great looking pct. Next time save 200.00 bucks and just go with forma-stanzol over the trs lol..
 
Last edited:
Nolva has similar sides as clomid and too much Trib can cause a rise in estrogen.

Nolva is treating me good right now after the hcg... could only handle the clomid for about 2 days. The Post-Cycle will help with the Trib estrogen spike I would presume and if blood work shows otherwise then hit the aromasin.
 
Nolva is treating me good right now after the hcg... could only handle the clomid for about 2 days. The Post-Cycle will help with the Trib estrogen spike I would presume and if blood work shows otherwise then hit the aromasin.


if you're not experiencing the sides with nolva, then go with what works. I can't handle the stuff.
 
Nolva 40/40/20/20 and Clomid 100/100/50/50 worked great for me.What about emotional sides- just don't be a pussy's if you want to keep what you gain just suck it up and stick with the protocol
Never tried other PCT supplements but going to experiment with some needto staff

some real crap advice when you can feel soooooooo much better and recover better too. With out having to go through thaty crap my man. You will see what I mean once you make the switch bro.
 
Bottom line...

Sometimes Nolva works -- but it kills gains, detroys lipids and may have a rebound effect.

Sometimes Clomid works -- but if it doesn't you feel like shit, have no sex drive and once you're off, you're supressed all over agin.

YOU DO NOT NEED EITHER OF THEM.

The key is to get your body working optimally on it's own. So using what helps your body is best, not using something else to rely on.

Sure, drugs have their place. HCG is great to get things moving and dex is good to assure E doesn't get too high. But as for actual recovery, THAT you have to do on your own, and supps can help.
 
Bottom line...

Sometimes Nolva works -- but it kills gains, detroys lipids and may have a rebound effect.

Sometimes Clomid works -- but if it doesn't you feel like shit, have no sex drive and once you're off, you're supressed all over agin.

YOU DO NOT NEED EITHER OF THEM.

The key is to get your body working optimally on it's own. So using what helps your body is best, not using something else to rely on.

Sure, drugs have their place. HCG is great to get things moving and dex is good to assure E doesn't get too high. But as for actual recovery, THAT you have to do on your own, and supps can help.

Good read, so what do you recommend for us doing light cycles (250mg) for 10 weeks? I would assume PCT should be much easier then.
 
Good read, so what do you recommend for us doing light cycles (250mg) for 10 weeks? I would assume PCT should be much easier then.


I still think it's a good idea to use HCG to get a jumpstart. You don'tt need much -- maybe 2 hits of 500 i.u's. Using HCGenerate while on will help too.

After that, UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE and Adex. follow with BRIDGE. And GEAR doesn't hurt to maintain nitrogen retention.

Instead of such a low amount for 10 weeks, you might consider doing 400 mgs for 8 weeks.
 
Nelson, do PCT products such as Sustain Alpha, Phyto-Testosterone, and Unleashed cause a rise in estrogen due to the increase in Test? I am not kidding when I say this, about a week ago I was lean as hell, and now I look like a freakin' water balloon. I am guessing this stuff has really kicked in. I am so bloated it is ruining my summer and it takes away everything I have worked for for this particular season. I just added in Aromasin at 12.5mg ED and if these products are not causing an increase in estrogen due to higher Test levels, then I do not want to suppress my estrogen too much for no reason.
 
Nelson, do PCT products such as Sustain Alpha, Phyto-Testosterone, and Unleashed cause a rise in estrogen due to the increase in Test? I am not kidding when I say this, about a week ago I was lean as hell, and now I look like a freakin' water balloon. I am guessing this stuff has really kicked in. I am so bloated it is ruining my summer and it takes away everything I have worked for for this particular season. I just added in Aromasin at 12.5mg ED and if these products are not causing an increase in estrogen due to higher Test levels, then I do not want to suppress my estrogen too much for no reason.

UNLEASHED increases free test so it can not aromatize.

Sustain should help lower e.

I don't think Phyto actually raises testosterone.

You could just be sensitive to the T sides. Use an herbal diuretic. (When ON-GUARD comes out, that'll help). You may need just a little dex, 1/4 tab every 3 days. Drink lots of water.
 
Oooch, that's rough. What was your cycle and what was your PCT?

Starting last week of january 09' I was on some kind of test all year till the last week in december 09'. I did take 9 weeks off starting in june when i had knee surgery. Also the last 8 weeks before stopping completely was a "cruise" of 250mg sust every 14 days. (which was great as a cruise)
There was 8 weeks of deca @ 200mg wk before i started the final cruise also.
Every time I went to order HMG or HCG, someone was out of stock. So instead of cruising and waiting longer I just said fuck it. I used a few bottles of unleashed and sustain liquid along with HC Generate and a little A-dex. I have used Sustain before...and i dunno...I'm just not convinced it does anything. Unleashed helped and HC generate helped ALOT. It brought back 3/4 of my nut size in what seemed like over night. But they never got above 3/4 size. About the first of june I noticed I got some more nut size back and better mood as far as sex. Now at the end of june I definatley have all size back. Better sensitivity than I have had in a few years(which seems odd).
If your on long enough, even the best PCT may not get it all at once. Sometimes you just have to wait it out. Not that it was a blast waiting.
 
UNLEASHED increases free test so it can not aromatize.

Sustain should help lower e.

I don't think Phyto actually raises testosterone.

You could just be sensitive to the T sides. Use an herbal diuretic. (When ON-GUARD comes out, that'll help). You may need just a little dex, 1/4 tab every 3 days. Drink lots of water.


When I took Sust I did not get any bloat. This current cycle I took Test E and I bloated up like a balloon. I took Aromasin and it went away. I stopped the Aromasin when I started PCT. Do you think it is just an estrogen rebound? I heard you cannot have a rebound when taking Aromasin since it destroys the receptor rather than just stopping the conversion. I know I am asking a lot of questions, I am just trying to figure out what I am doing wrong here so I can fix it. I am actually taking Nolva in my PCT as well, so I cannot add Adex. I prefer Aromasin anyways since it is better on the lipids.
 
When I took Sust I did not get any bloat. This current cycle I took Test E and I bloated up like a balloon. I took Aromasin and it went away. I stopped the Aromasin when I started PCT. Do you think it is just an estrogen rebound? I heard you cannot have a rebound when taking Aromasin since it destroys the receptor rather than just stopping the conversion. I know I am asking a lot of questions, I am just trying to figure out what I am doing wrong here so I can fix it. I am actually taking Nolva in my PCT as well, so I cannot add Adex. I prefer Aromasin anyways since it is better on the lipids.

It could be a lot of things, though sus does bloat a little less. If aromasin works for you, why use dex or nolva? Nolva is useless for PCT.
 
Test taper - 100 mg/week x 4 weeks, 50/25 after that
Toremifene - 4 weeks after 100mg taper is complete
Aromasin/HCG throughout

Works like a charm
 
Bottom line...

Sometimes Nolva works -- but it kills gains, detroys lipids and may have a rebound effect.

Sometimes Clomid works -- but if it doesn't you feel like shit, have no sex drive and once you're off, you're supressed all over agin.

YOU DO NOT NEED EITHER OF THEM.

The key is to get your body working optimally on it's own. So using what helps your body is best, not using something else to rely on.

Sure, drugs have their place. HCG is great to get things moving and dex is good to assure E doesn't get too high. But as for actual recovery, THAT you have to do on your own, and supps can help.

What?

You taper serms and gradually ease off them so your body can take control after. And all those supplements arent your bodies, they too are exogenous - be it drugs or herbs they both aid in the bodies in recovery.

the only way to get the body to do it alone is to forfeit the pct. which wont work.

Ppl who get the sides from nolva and clomid should probably move to different things. I for one get along with them well and they work for many others too.

nolva and clomid have been proven to increase endogenous T, those actual supps havent, only a couple of the ingredients have (not sure if in humans) and not in combination with their other ingredient counterparts (ie. the product). Not saying they dont work for some however
 
What?

You taper serms and gradually ease off them so your body can take control after. And all those supplements arent your bodies, they too are exogenous - be it drugs or herbs they both aid in the bodies in recovery.

...............................................

But drugs work differently in that the body becomes dependent. According to that logic, just tapering off the steroids would work. It doesn't. Supps support the body, drugs makes it dependant on the drug. Big differnce when you're trying to get the body to work on its own.

,................................................



Ppl who get the sides from nolva and clomid should probably move to different things. I for one get along with them well and they work for many others too.

nolva and clomid have been proven to increase endogenous T,

...........................................................

No they haven't. Not in the long term at least.




those actual supps havent,

..................................
I can only speak for UNLEASHED which has been proven to increase FREE testosterone. Nothing increases overall T, though Fagia argestis increases LH and FSH.


..............................................................



only a couple of the ingredients have (not sure if in humans) and not in combination with their other ingredient counterparts (ie. the product). Not saying they dont work for some however

..
 
hcgenerate on cycle
unleashed/post cycle and forma-stanzol for pct.

Has everything you need to lower estrogen, lower progesterone, bring back lh and help recovery everything perfectly. Simple enough I think :qt:

I've been away a few months....wtf is forma-stanzol? Sounds like stanozolol..... do we use winstrol for pct now?
 
What?

You taper serms and gradually ease off them so your body can take control after. And all those supplements arent your bodies, they too are exogenous - be it drugs or herbs they both aid in the bodies in recovery.

the only way to get the body to do it alone is to forfeit the pct. which wont work.

Ppl who get the sides from nolva and clomid should probably move to different things. I for one get along with them well and they work for many others too.

nolva and clomid have been proven to increase endogenous T, those actual supps havent, only a couple of the ingredients have (not sure if in humans) and not in combination with their other ingredient counterparts (ie. the product). Not saying they dont work for some however

What Is Nolvadex/Tamoxifen?

Tamoxifen is considered as the antagonist of the estrogen receptor which again is primarily present in the breast tissue of the human body. It is interesting to note that certain breast cancer cells require that the estrogen levels need to grow with passing time. Ideally, Tamoxifen has been used as the standard endocrine for the treatment of early breast cancer patients. It is therefore used as an anti estrogen therapy and it is mainly given to postmenopausal women. The role of an estrogen is to bind as well as activate the estrogen receptors that are present in the breast cells of a human body. The role of Tamoxifen is to stop estrogen to bind with the receptor. Although it is metabolized into compounds that aid in the binding of estrogen receptors, Tamoxifen does not allow the estrogen receptors to get activated in the breast cells of the human body. Hence, the growth of breast cancer cells can be stopped by making use of this compound. Nonetheless, results vary from person to person and the use of Tamoxifen cannot be deduced as a permanent cure for breast cancer patients.

It is ideally a drug which is taken orally in the form of an edible tablet and it is known to interfere with the activity of the estrogen levels present in the breast tissue. It has been studied that unless the estrogen levels in the human body are kept under strict control, they can lead to breast cancer. Tamoxifen has primarily been used for the past 30 years for treating patients suffering from breast cancer. It has also been administered to patients who are in their early stages of breast cancer. Even patients whose breast cancer has spread to various parts of the body have been known to use Tamoxifen on a regular basis. It has been stated that this drug has the ability to stop cancer cells from spreading within the human body but ironically there is no substantial study which clearly backs this statement with the help of substantial proof. Nonetheless, owing to the hype that it has received via media, people who are having breast cancer or those women who run the risk of developing breast cancer have been known to take this medicine on a regular basis. Interestingly, it has also been seen that women who are suffering from ductul carcinoma in stu, which in turn is similar to invasive breast cancer, have also been known to administer this medicine on a regular basis.

In the past 20 years steroid users have been using Nolvadex for a number of reasons. To ether help reduce bloat or gyno problems during a cycle or after a cycle to help recovery natural test production. In men, Tamoxifen "nolvaldex" is sometimes used by steroid-taking, weight-training athletes.An alternative and highly similar compound is Clomiphene citrate "Clomid". These drugs are used as anti-estrogen therapy. In this regard, the drug is used for three purposes. The first purpose, is to reduce the effect of circulating estrogens even if Tamoxifen itself increase the circulating level of estrogens since they are not bound to the estrogen receptors. Abnormally high levels of estrogen in men, can be caused by taking highly aromatizing anabolic steroids e.g. dianabol, anadrol or testosterone. In dosing with a dosing with 20 mg of Novaldex (Tamoxifen) for the duration of a steroid cycle, a reduction in water retention can be achieved. This prevents large fluctuations in water weight within the muscle.

Using Tamoxifen for the duration of a steroid cycle may or may not promote a preferable outcome for a weight training athlete, as the temporary increase in water weight within the muscle increases strength and allows larger weights to be used for the duration of the steroid cycle. Said water will dissipate once usage of steroids has ceased, and a dramatic loss in weight can be observed. Tamoxifen is also used to prevent estrogen related gynecomastia, resulting from elevated estrogenic levels. It can be taken as a preventative measure in small doses, or used at the onset of any symptoms e.g. nipple soreness/sensitivity. In the latter case, dosing reverses the affliction

However it Is now well known that well taking Nolvadex serum level estrogen raises and yet another drug must be taken with it during cycle,during PCT,or after PCT to prevent estrogen rebound. (how retarded). Studies have of course shown the its use can cause a rise in lh and test production but at what cost? Many other factors must be taken into account.

All this is happening in complete ignorance as they are not aware that this medicine has certain side effects that can prove fatal in the longer run. At the same time robbing ones self of a better PCT and cycle from using drugs like this.
Though I do feel its "ok" to use them "if you must" but use as little as you can and use support/PCT sups to help alleviate the side effects and bad feelings one gets from these harsh drugs.

Where Was This drug Discovered?

Interestingly, this drug was discovered by AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals which were earliest known as ICI pharmaceuticals. It is now sold under various trade names such as Nolvadex, Valodex and Istubal. Although it is sold under various names, it is primarily known and popularly termed as Tamoxifen. Although this drug is widely used in treating breast cancer patients, it also has adverse side effects which very few people are actually aware off.

Once praised for its benefits in preventing breast cancer recurrence, the lucrative pharmaceutical drug Tamoxifen is now implicated in causing dangerous side-effects, including other types of cancers.

In the early 1970's, a shameful chapter closed on the widespread use of a known carcinogenic and endocrine-disrupting drug called DES (diethylstilboestrol), the first synthetic, non-steroidal estrogen drug. Against the advice of its creator, Sir Charles Dodd, between four and six million American and European women and 10,000 Australian women innocently used DES for the prevention of miscarriage and pregnancy complications.

In addition, DES became a popular though unproven drug for a variety of other conditions. It was used for the suppression of lactation, the treatment of acne, the treatment of certain types of breast and prostatic cancer, and as an inhibitor of growth in young girls, an estrogen replacement in menopause and a "morning after" pill.

It would take 30 years to accept what laboratory tests had indicated as early as 1938 — that DES was a highly dangerous and harmful drug. It was reported that, 20 years after taking DES, mothers had a 40 to 50 per cent greater risk of breast cancer than non-exposed mothers. In addition, the children of DES mothers showed a high incidence of reproductive abnormalities, miscarriages, vaginal cancer, testicular cancer, sterility and immune dysfunction. In fact, it is feared that repercussions of this drug will be felt for generations to come.

The irony of this entire debacle is that the medical establishment finally acknowledged that DES was useless in preventing miscarriages. Thus, DES, another disastrous experiment on women, was added to the long list of major medical blunders.

Out of this early research, a new drug appeared on the horizon which would be soon be heralded as a shining star in the war against the growing epidemic of breast cancer. In the late 1960's the pharmaceutical industry developed a drug called "Tamoxifen". As a synthetic, non-steroidal compound with hormone-like effects (many of which are poorly understood), Tamoxifen has a similar structure to DES. In fact, it was observed that Tamoxifen caused the same abnormal changes seen in cells of women taking estradiol and DES. This similarity raised alarm bells for some.

Pierre Blais, well known as a drug researcher who was ejected from Canada's health protection bureaucracy when he spoke out about silicone breast implants, describes the story of Tamoxifen as "the story of modern drug design which produces garbage drugs". He says, "Good drug design ceased, unfortunately, in the 1930s." Tamoxifen, Blais asserts, "...is a garbage drug that made it to the top of the scrap heap. It is a DES in the making."

Blais's dire predictions were ignored with the promise of a potential drug treatment for breast cancer. Tamoxifen was first approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use as a birth-control pill; however, it proved to induce rather than inhibit ovulation.(just goes to show how retarded they truly are) Although Tamoxifen didn't work as a contraceptive, it was found to lower mammary cancer rates in animals. Animal studies showed that Tamoxifen prevented estrogen from binding to receptor sites on breast tissue cells. Tamoxifen also reduced the incidence of breast cancer in rodents after administration of a breast-carcinogenic substance. This discovery provided the impetus to study its effects in treating human breast cancer.

Estrogen is the common link between most breast cancer risk factors, i.e., genetic, reproductive, dietary, lifestyle and environmental. It both stimulates the division of breast cells (healthy as well as cancerous) and, especially in its 'bad' form, increases the risk of breast cancer. Thus, hormonal drugs such as Tamoxifen that block the effects of estrogen on the breast were expected to reduce the risk of breast cancer recurring in women treated for breast cancer.

Tamoxifen acts as a weak estrogen by competing for estrogen receptors much as phyto-estrogens do(I want you to keep this word PHYTO ESTROGENS IN MIND WE WILL COVER IT AGAIN LATER). Like phyto-estrogens, Tamoxifen has mild estrogenic properties but is considered an anti-estrogen since it inhibits the activity of regular estrogens. More accurately, Tamoxifen is an estrogen-blocker(Not a estrogen reducer)
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...tract/73/1/171

Yes the test shows over time that both lh and androgins were raised, but at the same time (serum level estrogen was tripled)and thus the reason many experence rebound gyno after its use.

Tamoxifen fights breast cancer by competing with estrogen for space on estrogen receptors in the tumor tissue. Every Tamoxifen molecule that hooks onto an estrogen receptor prevents an estrogen molecule from linking up at the same site. Without a steady supply of estrogen, cells in an estrogen-receptor-positive (ER+) tumor do not thrive and the tumor's ability to spread is reduced.

However, Tamoxifen exhibited two conflicting characteristics. It could act either as an anti-estrogen or as an estrogen. Therefore, while Tamoxifen is anti-estrogenic to the breast, it also acts as an estrogen to the uterus and, to a lesser extent, the heart, blood vessels and bone. Moreover Tamoxifen also acts as an estrogen in the liver thus causing the lowering of IGF-1
In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf
Effect of low dose Tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women
Comparison of Tamoxifen and testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology

For people suffering from breast cancer I guess this would be a good thing. Since Lowering IGF would reduce the growth of everything. However this is not one any of the people using nolva for PCT or on cycle use want now is it?

So, although it initially showed the tendency to counter breast cancer recurrence, it would soon be revealed that it also promoted particularly aggressive uterine and liver cancers, caused fatal blood clots and interfered with many other functions.

Doctors, however, were quick to jump on the Tamoxifen bandwagon, turning a blind eye to its more injurious tendencies. Starting in the 1970's oncologists began using Tamoxifen to treat women with cancer, often in combination with other drugs, radiation or surgery such as lumpectomy and mastectomy, with modest success. Like DES, Tamoxifen's benefits were then extended for use as a preventive against osteoporosis and heart disease.

Today, doctors are treating about one million American breast cancer patients with Tamoxifen, about 20 per cent of them for more than five years. As studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1989 and the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 1992 showed, women with breast cancer who took Tamoxifen reduced their chances of developing cancer in the other breast (contralateral cancer) by about 30 to 50 per cent. These findings would later be challenged.

Tamoxifen is now recommended for all pre-menopausal women with hormone-positive cancers, as well as for most postmenopausal women with breast cancer and/or a growing number of women with hormone-negative cancers. Tamoxifen is currently used by more women with breast cancer than any other drug.

Tamoxifen (brand name Nolvadex) is now the most widely prescribed cancer medication in the world. It generated revenues of US $265 million in 1992. By 1995, worldwide sales of Nolvadex reached $400 million. (7) And at AUD $90 for one month's supply, it doesn't come cheap (the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme covers $70).
Global sales of Tamoxifen in 2001 were $1,024 million.[54] Since the expiration of the patent in 2002, it is now widely available as a generic drug around the world. Barr Labs Inc had challenged the patent (which in 1992 was ruled unenforcable) but later came to an agreement with Zeneca to licence the patent and sell Tamoxifen at close to Zeneca's price.[55] As of 2004, Tamoxifen was the world's largest selling hormonal drug on record and off record may be the number 1 selling drug in word of all time to date. So we are truly talking about billions in revenue world wide for drug companies,sources,ug's and more. Money is at the root of this drug and why its so heavily pushed on all forums by everyone. Its cheap to make and it brings in billions plain and simple.

These numbers are nothing compared to what this drug now makes for the drug companies,sources.ug's selling it. So you can bet your life they will make sure every test and study in the world is published to make sure its seen in a good light. This not even including its "off label use" Ie all us men using it for on cycle and PCT. The use of the drug for this reason triples its sales and you can just emagen the amount of money its making. You do the math my friends!. At this very moment 500000000 sources and people with monitary ties to this drug are out there pushing like crazy to make sure you and everyone else keeps its use for PCT alive. This is the #1 reason why we have not given up on this years ago.

Tamoxifen was developed by UK-based Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI), one of the world's largest multinational chemical corporations. Zeneca, an ICI subsidiary, is responsible for manufacturing and marketing the hormone and is now the world's largest cancer-drug company.
CARCINOGENENIC EFFECTS
It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that Tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It has been found that Tamoxifen binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell, causing a cancerous mutation to take place. Even Australia's conservative National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) warned that no amount of Tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.

In California there is a law called "Proposition 65" that requires the state to publish and maintain a list of all known carcinogens. In May 1995, the state's Carcinogen Identification Committee voted unanimously to add Tamoxifen to its list.

When research is done on anti-cancer drugs (such as SERMs), the aim is to find a drug that prolongs life, with the least amount of acute side-effects. In other words, the goal isn’t so much about finding a cure, as it is finding something that can alleviate the symptoms and/or prolong life.

When it comes to steroid users so many are willing to forgo any and everything to get the one simple effect they desire (recovery). The popularity of these drugs stems from the popular advice to use these drugs for everything from testosterone recovery.bitch tits,make your dick grow bigger, increase the amount of jiz you drop on a girls face, and everything in between. Advice on its use is handed out like candy and everyones got a sweat tooth for quick advice. Of course many "vets and so called know it alls" defend it to the death and it can do no wrong. Mainly do to not wanting to be wrong,habit,they got money involved with it, or just for the sake of argument.

“Its FDA approved for cancer treatment. It must be safe!”

It’s wrong to assume that an “FDA approved” drug has a proven safety profile. The FDA has continually issued stronger health warnings for Tamoxifen over the years. For instance, in 1994 the FDA demanded that the Tamoxifen manufacturer Zeneca (an ICI sub-division), issue warning letters to health care practitioners about the increased risk of endometrial and gastro-intestinal cancers with Tamoxifen use. Zeneca also reported adverse effects similar to those seen with DES, such as reproductive abnormalities in the animals whose mothers received Tamoxifen. (remember, DES was the original synthetic estrogen, and also an analog to Tamoxifen)

A number of cancer researchers have pointed out the health risks too, such as Elwood et al (6) -

“[Tamoxifen], therefore, is not appropriate for use in the general population because of the known increased risk of endometrial cancer”


What Are Side Effects Of Temoxifen

You Can Get Blood Clots!

Have you any idea that a regular dosage of Tamoxifen can actually increase the chances of blood clots? Well, this is a true fact and can be fatal for those who are using this drug to get rid or avoid the chance of getting Gyno on cycle and or for PCT. According to recent medical studies, it has been noticed that people who have been using Tamoxifen on a regular basis have had a substantial increase in terms of their blood clots. Hence, as compared to those people who are not using this drug, their chances of getting blood clots is relatively higher.

A blood clot can be defined as an internal body mechanism by which the cut can be stopped from bleeding excessively. The proteins present in your blood work along with the platelets and in a bid to form a clot. This is also termed as coagulation. In the event of an injury, this can prove to be really very effective as it would stop the flow of blood from your wound and thus save your life. Nonetheless, if the blood clots while it is moving through your body, it can prove fatal. This is also termed as hyper coagulation and it can prove very dangerous for the concerned individual. Tamoxifen has been known to cause hyper coagulation and hence, it needs to be taken under strict medical supervision.

When the study was conducted, it was ascertained that a relatively large number of people developed this conditions and although not many people using this drug were actually studied, those that were using it regularly, were in a shock to find out that it also led to blood clots.

Hence, although this drug is helpful to a certain extent, we need to also see that the extent of damage it can do to our body in terms of hazardous blood clots are much more and hence, you as a steroid user need to exercise caution and spend some quality time researching on this so called ‘wonder-drug’ before making it an eminent part of your daily routine and or PCT.

One of the main reasons why a blood clot is considered dangerous is because this drug causes a clot inside the blood vessel which in turn is known as thrombus. What happens is that at times this blood clot can travel through your blood streams and get pushed into your lungs. When this happens, you can be rest assured that your life is in acute danger as this condition is life threatening. This condition is also known as pulmonary embolus. Similarly, a clot this clot can also block the blood vessels in the brain and this in turn may lead to a stroke. When this blood clot clocks the blood vessels of your heart, it stops the blood from rushing to your heart area thereby reducing the oxygen supply to that area. This in turn leads to cardiac arrest.

All the above mentioned conditions arising from blood clots, which in turn are caused from a regular intake of Tamoxifen, can prove to be life threatening for the concerned individual. Hence, even before you decide to take this medication on a regular basis, you need to exercise caution and be prepared to face the ill effects of this so called ‘wonder-drug’.



Increased susceptibility to gyno -

Tamoxifen is often used to combat gyno during cycle when “flare ups” occur. While Tamoxifen may provide immediate inhibition of proliferation, and serve as valuable tool, it can actually increase future susceptibility to gyno.

This is caused by Tamoxifen’s ability to up-regulate the progesterone receptor. (54-56) This can dramatically increase the chances of developing gyno in future cycles when utilizing progestin based anabolics such as nandrolone (deca) or trenbolone (or any pro-hormone acting upon the progesterone receptor).

It is interesting to speculate. Is Tamoxifen use directly related to the increased gyno occurrences seen with modern day steroid users?


You Can Develop Cataract!

Cataract can be defined as a thin white layer of membrane which blocks the passing light to the RetinA thereby clouding your vision. Although it is relatively painless, it does cloud your vision and can even blind you if it is not removed through the means of a surgical procedure. The RetinA is ideally a nerve layer which is located at the back of the eye socket and its main purpose is to direct the light which is entering the eye via the means of electromagnetic signals to the brain. Once the brain receives these nerve signals, it is passed on to the nervous system, after which you can transform your vision into clear moving pictures. If this thin layer of membrane is blocked owing to any reason, you would have problems with your vision.

While aging is looked on as the major cause behind cataract, it has recently been noticed that patients using Tamoxifen have been identified as ones susceptible to cataract on a regular basis. people who are aging and using this drug on a regular basis are on a higher risk of contracting cataract as compared to those who are not using Tamoxifen. The other eye problems that can be faced by individuals include scarring of the corneal area and abrupt retinal changes.

In case you are using this drug regularly and you have a cloudy, fuzzy or foggy vision, you need to get your eyesight checked with immediate effect. In case you are unable to withstand the glare of lamps and are unable to catch a glimpse of the morning sun, then again you need to get your eyes checked. This is so because, Temoxifen has a natural tendency to obstruct the normal eye vision and if you do suffer from this symptom, you may not be able to drive at night as the headlamps of the opposing vehicle may blind you momentarily.


In order to get rid of cataract that has been developed owing to a continuous intake of Temoxifen, you may need to undergo a corrective surgery. In case you want to delay a surgical procedure, you may want to light up your room with plenty of tubes and bulbs and keep your eyeglass up to date with the latest prescription. Ideally, the only known cure for cataract that has been a resultant of Temoxifen is a surgical procedure.

If you would like to avoid this problem, you would have to seek an alternative to Temoxifen at the earliest given opportunity.



Libido reduction & erectile dysfunction
Erectile dysfunction ow libido, and general impotence are typical complaints from men recently discontinuing steroids or HRT therapy, which is often combated by Clomid or Nolvadex, paradoxically so.

Regardless of any positive effects on fertility or testosterone levels, Clomid and Nolvadex use is highly correlated with erectile dysfunction, libido suppression, and even emotional disorders Research with male breast cancer patients has also reported decreased libido, and thrombosis associated with Tamoxifen use. he thrombotic effect (blood vessel clogging) could explain the mechanism by which SERMs may inhibit erectile function, by reducing circulation to erectile tissue (as discussed before)


nolva/Clomid both raise shbg.
This is something I do not see a lot of people disusing so I I wanted to make it well know. Just do a web search on Tamoxifen,Clomid or nolva raises shbg or any variation and you will get all the studies and prof you need.
Trait Anxiety and Tamoxifen Effects on Bone Mineral Density and Sex Hormone- Binding Globulin -- Cameron et al. 64 (4): 612 -- Psychosomatic Medicine
iHOP - Information Hyperlinked over Proteins [ SHBG ]
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin in Clinical Perspective; Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica - 66(3):Pages 255-262 - Informa Healthcare
Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

2. nolva lowers IGF-1 Again just a simple search on (Tamoxifen or nolva lowers IGF 1 and walla you got all the prof you need.

In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf
Effect of low dose Tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women
Comparison of Tamoxifen and testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology


They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hypertriglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis

Severe hypertriglyceridemia caused by Tamoxifen-tr... [Endocr J. 1997] - PubMed result
Tamoxifen-induced hypertriglyceridemia in association with diabetes mellitus - EM|consulte
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Capecitabine-Induced Severe Hypertriglyceridemia: Report of Two Cases -- Kurt et al. 40 (2): 328 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy
Elsevier: Article Locator
Estrogen and Triglycerides
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../11/8/1067.pdf
WikiGenes - Hypertriglyceridemia


A word on Clomiphene (Clomid) –

Clomiphene (Clomid) consists of two stereoisomers which possess radically different pharmacodynamics. Zuclomiphene has predominantly estrogenic effects and slow clearance while the enclomiphene isomer has predominately anti-estrogenic effects and quick clearance. his creates a divergent effects between estrogen blockage and estrogen stimulation and an acute imbalance once Clomid administration is discontinued. Bodybuilders will often complain of “estrogenic rebound” after stopping Clomid, which could be attributed to the lingering estrogenic isomer zuclomiphene as the anti-estrogenic enclomiphene has long cleared the system. (Recently, enclomiphene has been isolated by the pharmaceutical company Repros, for use in Androxal™.)

For all intents and purposes, Tamoxifen is a superior SERM, simply for the fact that Tamoxifen provides a purely anti-estrogenic isomer, whereas Clomid provides a mix of anti and pro estrogenic effects.

In regards to the health consequences about to be listed, it can be safely assumed that Clomid will share similar detrimental effects as Tamoxifen, since it shares the same triphenylethylene backbone and carcinogenic tendencies.


One of the main reasons why people make use of Clomid is for the purpose of recovering their bodies after a steroid cycle In simple words, this drug is mainly used in the form of post cycle therapy. Clomid has the actual potential to stimulate the production of hypothalamus which in turn would release a particular kind of hormone called gonadotrophic hormones. This hormone has the natural ability to allow the human testicles to secrete testosterone, which in turn would bring the depleting levels of testosterone in the body to its permissible levels. When this is achieved, the human body would stop losing its muscle mass in a natural way. Reacovery of test production is the gaols at any cost is the common thought.


Its a known fact that both Clomid and Nolvadex cause some really messed up mood swings.
Clomid/nolva have been known to cause severe mood swings in users and it has apparently been noticed that anyone who has been making use of Clomid/nolva have suffered from such side effects on a regular basis. Many users have categorically complained that the use of Clomid has been considered as the worst side effect that they have suffered so far. A few features of mood swings may include a change in the usual behaviour, tearful behaviour, excessive depression, anxiety and extremely sensitive in nature. Stop acting like you don't know what I am talking about. We all know its true.


Liver cancer -

Originally, Tamoxifen was accepted as being non-toxic to the human liver upon finding that Tamoxifen did not cause noticeable liver damage (DNA adducts) during short-term test tube studies with human liver cells.

However, it became apparent that test tube research was largely flawed due to the low rate of metabolism in such a superficial environment. It was soon discovered that the hepatotoxic effects from Tamoxifen stem from the metabolism and buildup of the a-hydroxytamoxifen and N-desmethyltamoxifen metabolites, which would only appear in an in vivo environment. Surely enough, the results from the original rat studies showing dramatic carcinogenic effects on the liver, soon correlated with human data when researchers found the same type of liver DNA adducts in Tamoxifen patients.

More recent human research has reported Tamoxifen treated women to have 3x the risk of developing fatty liver disease, which occurs as soon as 3 months into therapy at only 20mg/day. In some cases, the disease lasts up to 3 years, despite cessation of Tamoxifen therapy. Five and ten year follow-ups with patients on long term Tamoxifen therapy show cases of deadly hepatocellular carcinoma.

In 2002, a bizarre study examined the use of Tamoxifen for hepatocellular carcinoma treatment in humans. It was assumed that since Tamoxifen could inhibit proliferation of breast cancer, it could offer the same benefit for liver cancer. The devastating results could not have been more indicative of Tamoxifen’s hepatotoxic nature, as the Tamoxifen treatment significantly increased the rate of death, compared to the group not receiving Tamoxifen.

Finally, in a case study reviewing Tamoxifen induced liver disease; D.F Moffat et al made a profound statement –

“Hepatocellular carcinoma in Tamoxifen treated patients may be under-reported since there may be reluctance to biopsy liver tumours which are assumed to be secondary carcinoma of the breast.” In other words, it appears that liver carcinomas from a large number of breast cancer patients on Tamoxifen therapy have been misdiagnosed as an infection from the breast cancer itself.

Although Tamoxifen induced liver cancer may take years to manifest in a healthy male, its damaging effects could easily be exaggerated by other popular hepatotoxic drugs, such as 17aa oral steroids.



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All I can tell Nolva/Clomid PCT brought my T levels from 287ng/ml to 750ng/ml.Here the real example.
So I can tell this works for me for sure.
Just my 2 cents.
I wouldn't mind to try forma-stanozol next time
 
What Is Nolvadex/Tamoxifen?

Tamoxifen is considered as the antagonist of the estrogen receptor which again is primarily present in the breast tissue of the human body. It is interesting to note that certain breast cancer cells require that the estrogen levels need to grow with passing time. Ideally, Tamoxifen has been used as the standard endocrine for the treatment of early breast cancer patients. It is therefore used as an anti estrogen therapy and it is mainly given to postmenopausal women. The role of an estrogen is to bind as well as activate the estrogen receptors that are present in the breast cells of a human body. The role of Tamoxifen is to stop estrogen to bind with the receptor. Although it is metabolized into compounds that aid in the binding of estrogen receptors, Tamoxifen does not allow the estrogen receptors to get activated in the breast cells of the human body. Hence, the growth of breast cancer cells can be stopped by making use of this compound. Nonetheless, results vary from person to person and the use of Tamoxifen cannot be deduced as a permanent cure for breast cancer patients.

It is ideally a drug which is taken orally in the form of an edible tablet and it is known to interfere with the activity of the estrogen levels present in the breast tissue. It has been studied that unless the estrogen levels in the human body are kept under strict control, they can lead to breast cancer. Tamoxifen has primarily been used for the past 30 years for treating patients suffering from breast cancer. It has also been administered to patients who are in their early stages of breast cancer. Even patients whose breast cancer has spread to various parts of the body have been known to use Tamoxifen on a regular basis. It has been stated that this drug has the ability to stop cancer cells from spreading within the human body but ironically there is no substantial study which clearly backs this statement with the help of substantial proof. Nonetheless, owing to the hype that it has received via media, people who are having breast cancer or those women who run the risk of developing breast cancer have been known to take this medicine on a regular basis. Interestingly, it has also been seen that women who are suffering from ductul carcinoma in stu, which in turn is similar to invasive breast cancer, have also been known to administer this medicine on a regular basis.

In the past 20 years steroid users have been using Nolvadex for a number of reasons. To ether help reduce bloat or gyno problems during a cycle or after a cycle to help recovery natural test production. In men, Tamoxifen "nolvaldex" is sometimes used by steroid-taking, weight-training athletes.An alternative and highly similar compound is Clomiphene citrate "Clomid". These drugs are used as anti-estrogen therapy. In this regard, the drug is used for three purposes. The first purpose, is to reduce the effect of circulating estrogens even if Tamoxifen itself increase the circulating level of estrogens since they are not bound to the estrogen receptors. Abnormally high levels of estrogen in men, can be caused by taking highly aromatizing anabolic steroids e.g. dianabol, anadrol or testosterone. In dosing with a dosing with 20 mg of Novaldex (Tamoxifen) for the duration of a steroid cycle, a reduction in water retention can be achieved. This prevents large fluctuations in water weight within the muscle.

Using Tamoxifen for the duration of a steroid cycle may or may not promote a preferable outcome for a weight training athlete, as the temporary increase in water weight within the muscle increases strength and allows larger weights to be used for the duration of the steroid cycle. Said water will dissipate once usage of steroids has ceased, and a dramatic loss in weight can be observed. Tamoxifen is also used to prevent estrogen related gynecomastia, resulting from elevated estrogenic levels. It can be taken as a preventative measure in small doses, or used at the onset of any symptoms e.g. nipple soreness/sensitivity. In the latter case, dosing reverses the affliction

However it Is now well known that well taking Nolvadex serum level estrogen raises and yet another drug must be taken with it during cycle,during PCT,or after PCT to prevent estrogen rebound. (how retarded). Studies have of course shown the its use can cause a rise in lh and test production but at what cost? Many other factors must be taken into account.

All this is happening in complete ignorance as they are not aware that this medicine has certain side effects that can prove fatal in the longer run. At the same time robbing ones self of a better PCT and cycle from using drugs like this.
Though I do feel its "ok" to use them "if you must" but use as little as you can and use support/PCT sups to help alleviate the side effects and bad feelings one gets from these harsh drugs.

Where Was This drug Discovered?

Interestingly, this drug was discovered by AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals which were earliest known as ICI pharmaceuticals. It is now sold under various trade names such as Nolvadex, Valodex and Istubal. Although it is sold under various names, it is primarily known and popularly termed as Tamoxifen. Although this drug is widely used in treating breast cancer patients, it also has adverse side effects which very few people are actually aware off.

Once praised for its benefits in preventing breast cancer recurrence, the lucrative pharmaceutical drug Tamoxifen is now implicated in causing dangerous side-effects, including other types of cancers.

In the early 1970's, a shameful chapter closed on the widespread use of a known carcinogenic and endocrine-disrupting drug called DES (diethylstilboestrol), the first synthetic, non-steroidal estrogen drug. Against the advice of its creator, Sir Charles Dodd, between four and six million American and European women and 10,000 Australian women innocently used DES for the prevention of miscarriage and pregnancy complications.

In addition, DES became a popular though unproven drug for a variety of other conditions. It was used for the suppression of lactation, the treatment of acne, the treatment of certain types of breast and prostatic cancer, and as an inhibitor of growth in young girls, an estrogen replacement in menopause and a "morning after" pill.

It would take 30 years to accept what laboratory tests had indicated as early as 1938 — that DES was a highly dangerous and harmful drug. It was reported that, 20 years after taking DES, mothers had a 40 to 50 per cent greater risk of breast cancer than non-exposed mothers. In addition, the children of DES mothers showed a high incidence of reproductive abnormalities, miscarriages, vaginal cancer, testicular cancer, sterility and immune dysfunction. In fact, it is feared that repercussions of this drug will be felt for generations to come.

The irony of this entire debacle is that the medical establishment finally acknowledged that DES was useless in preventing miscarriages. Thus, DES, another disastrous experiment on women, was added to the long list of major medical blunders.

Out of this early research, a new drug appeared on the horizon which would be soon be heralded as a shining star in the war against the growing epidemic of breast cancer. In the late 1960's the pharmaceutical industry developed a drug called "Tamoxifen". As a synthetic, non-steroidal compound with hormone-like effects (many of which are poorly understood), Tamoxifen has a similar structure to DES. In fact, it was observed that Tamoxifen caused the same abnormal changes seen in cells of women taking estradiol and DES. This similarity raised alarm bells for some.

Pierre Blais, well known as a drug researcher who was ejected from Canada's health protection bureaucracy when he spoke out about silicone breast implants, describes the story of Tamoxifen as "the story of modern drug design which produces garbage drugs". He says, "Good drug design ceased, unfortunately, in the 1930s." Tamoxifen, Blais asserts, "...is a garbage drug that made it to the top of the scrap heap. It is a DES in the making."

Blais's dire predictions were ignored with the promise of a potential drug treatment for breast cancer. Tamoxifen was first approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use as a birth-control pill; however, it proved to induce rather than inhibit ovulation.(just goes to show how retarded they truly are) Although Tamoxifen didn't work as a contraceptive, it was found to lower mammary cancer rates in animals. Animal studies showed that Tamoxifen prevented estrogen from binding to receptor sites on breast tissue cells. Tamoxifen also reduced the incidence of breast cancer in rodents after administration of a breast-carcinogenic substance. This discovery provided the impetus to study its effects in treating human breast cancer.

Estrogen is the common link between most breast cancer risk factors, i.e., genetic, reproductive, dietary, lifestyle and environmental. It both stimulates the division of breast cells (healthy as well as cancerous) and, especially in its 'bad' form, increases the risk of breast cancer. Thus, hormonal drugs such as Tamoxifen that block the effects of estrogen on the breast were expected to reduce the risk of breast cancer recurring in women treated for breast cancer.

Tamoxifen acts as a weak estrogen by competing for estrogen receptors much as phyto-estrogens do(I want you to keep this word PHYTO ESTROGENS IN MIND WE WILL COVER IT AGAIN LATER). Like phyto-estrogens, Tamoxifen has mild estrogenic properties but is considered an anti-estrogen since it inhibits the activity of regular estrogens. More accurately, Tamoxifen is an estrogen-blocker(Not a estrogen reducer)
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...tract/73/1/171

Yes the test shows over time that both lh and androgins were raised, but at the same time (serum level estrogen was tripled)and thus the reason many experence rebound gyno after its use.

Tamoxifen fights breast cancer by competing with estrogen for space on estrogen receptors in the tumor tissue. Every Tamoxifen molecule that hooks onto an estrogen receptor prevents an estrogen molecule from linking up at the same site. Without a steady supply of estrogen, cells in an estrogen-receptor-positive (ER+) tumor do not thrive and the tumor's ability to spread is reduced.

However, Tamoxifen exhibited two conflicting characteristics. It could act either as an anti-estrogen or as an estrogen. Therefore, while Tamoxifen is anti-estrogenic to the breast, it also acts as an estrogen to the uterus and, to a lesser extent, the heart, blood vessels and bone. Moreover Tamoxifen also acts as an estrogen in the liver thus causing the lowering of IGF-1
In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf
Effect of low dose Tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women
Comparison of Tamoxifen and testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology

For people suffering from breast cancer I guess this would be a good thing. Since Lowering IGF would reduce the growth of everything. However this is not one any of the people using nolva for PCT or on cycle use want now is it?

So, although it initially showed the tendency to counter breast cancer recurrence, it would soon be revealed that it also promoted particularly aggressive uterine and liver cancers, caused fatal blood clots and interfered with many other functions.

Doctors, however, were quick to jump on the Tamoxifen bandwagon, turning a blind eye to its more injurious tendencies. Starting in the 1970's oncologists began using Tamoxifen to treat women with cancer, often in combination with other drugs, radiation or surgery such as lumpectomy and mastectomy, with modest success. Like DES, Tamoxifen's benefits were then extended for use as a preventive against osteoporosis and heart disease.

Today, doctors are treating about one million American breast cancer patients with Tamoxifen, about 20 per cent of them for more than five years. As studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1989 and the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 1992 showed, women with breast cancer who took Tamoxifen reduced their chances of developing cancer in the other breast (contralateral cancer) by about 30 to 50 per cent. These findings would later be challenged.

Tamoxifen is now recommended for all pre-menopausal women with hormone-positive cancers, as well as for most postmenopausal women with breast cancer and/or a growing number of women with hormone-negative cancers. Tamoxifen is currently used by more women with breast cancer than any other drug.

Tamoxifen (brand name Nolvadex) is now the most widely prescribed cancer medication in the world. It generated revenues of US $265 million in 1992. By 1995, worldwide sales of Nolvadex reached $400 million. (7) And at AUD $90 for one month's supply, it doesn't come cheap (the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme covers $70).
Global sales of Tamoxifen in 2001 were $1,024 million.[54] Since the expiration of the patent in 2002, it is now widely available as a generic drug around the world. Barr Labs Inc had challenged the patent (which in 1992 was ruled unenforcable) but later came to an agreement with Zeneca to licence the patent and sell Tamoxifen at close to Zeneca's price.[55] As of 2004, Tamoxifen was the world's largest selling hormonal drug on record and off record may be the number 1 selling drug in word of all time to date. So we are truly talking about billions in revenue world wide for drug companies,sources,ug's and more. Money is at the root of this drug and why its so heavily pushed on all forums by everyone. Its cheap to make and it brings in billions plain and simple.

These numbers are nothing compared to what this drug now makes for the drug companies,sources.ug's selling it. So you can bet your life they will make sure every test and study in the world is published to make sure its seen in a good light. This not even including its "off label use" Ie all us men using it for on cycle and PCT. The use of the drug for this reason triples its sales and you can just emagen the amount of money its making. You do the math my friends!. At this very moment 500000000 sources and people with monitary ties to this drug are out there pushing like crazy to make sure you and everyone else keeps its use for PCT alive. This is the #1 reason why we have not given up on this years ago.

Tamoxifen was developed by UK-based Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI), one of the world's largest multinational chemical corporations. Zeneca, an ICI subsidiary, is responsible for manufacturing and marketing the hormone and is now the world's largest cancer-drug company.
CARCINOGENENIC EFFECTS
It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that Tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It has been found that Tamoxifen binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell, causing a cancerous mutation to take place. Even Australia's conservative National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) warned that no amount of Tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.

In California there is a law called "Proposition 65" that requires the state to publish and maintain a list of all known carcinogens. In May 1995, the state's Carcinogen Identification Committee voted unanimously to add Tamoxifen to its list.

When research is done on anti-cancer drugs (such as SERMs), the aim is to find a drug that prolongs life, with the least amount of acute side-effects. In other words, the goal isn’t so much about finding a cure, as it is finding something that can alleviate the symptoms and/or prolong life.

When it comes to steroid users so many are willing to forgo any and everything to get the one simple effect they desire (recovery). The popularity of these drugs stems from the popular advice to use these drugs for everything from testosterone recovery.bitch tits,make your dick grow bigger, increase the amount of jiz you drop on a girls face, and everything in between. Advice on its use is handed out like candy and everyones got a sweat tooth for quick advice. Of course many "vets and so called know it alls" defend it to the death and it can do no wrong. Mainly do to not wanting to be wrong,habit,they got money involved with it, or just for the sake of argument.

“Its FDA approved for cancer treatment. It must be safe!”

It’s wrong to assume that an “FDA approved” drug has a proven safety profile. The FDA has continually issued stronger health warnings for Tamoxifen over the years. For instance, in 1994 the FDA demanded that the Tamoxifen manufacturer Zeneca (an ICI sub-division), issue warning letters to health care practitioners about the increased risk of endometrial and gastro-intestinal cancers with Tamoxifen use. Zeneca also reported adverse effects similar to those seen with DES, such as reproductive abnormalities in the animals whose mothers received Tamoxifen. (remember, DES was the original synthetic estrogen, and also an analog to Tamoxifen)

A number of cancer researchers have pointed out the health risks too, such as Elwood et al (6) -

“[Tamoxifen], therefore, is not appropriate for use in the general population because of the known increased risk of endometrial cancer”


What Are Side Effects Of Temoxifen

You Can Get Blood Clots!

Have you any idea that a regular dosage of Tamoxifen can actually increase the chances of blood clots? Well, this is a true fact and can be fatal for those who are using this drug to get rid or avoid the chance of getting Gyno on cycle and or for PCT. According to recent medical studies, it has been noticed that people who have been using Tamoxifen on a regular basis have had a substantial increase in terms of their blood clots. Hence, as compared to those people who are not using this drug, their chances of getting blood clots is relatively higher.

A blood clot can be defined as an internal body mechanism by which the cut can be stopped from bleeding excessively. The proteins present in your blood work along with the platelets and in a bid to form a clot. This is also termed as coagulation. In the event of an injury, this can prove to be really very effective as it would stop the flow of blood from your wound and thus save your life. Nonetheless, if the blood clots while it is moving through your body, it can prove fatal. This is also termed as hyper coagulation and it can prove very dangerous for the concerned individual. Tamoxifen has been known to cause hyper coagulation and hence, it needs to be taken under strict medical supervision.

When the study was conducted, it was ascertained that a relatively large number of people developed this conditions and although not many people using this drug were actually studied, those that were using it regularly, were in a shock to find out that it also led to blood clots.

Hence, although this drug is helpful to a certain extent, we need to also see that the extent of damage it can do to our body in terms of hazardous blood clots are much more and hence, you as a steroid user need to exercise caution and spend some quality time researching on this so called ‘wonder-drug’ before making it an eminent part of your daily routine and or PCT.

One of the main reasons why a blood clot is considered dangerous is because this drug causes a clot inside the blood vessel which in turn is known as thrombus. What happens is that at times this blood clot can travel through your blood streams and get pushed into your lungs. When this happens, you can be rest assured that your life is in acute danger as this condition is life threatening. This condition is also known as pulmonary embolus. Similarly, a clot this clot can also block the blood vessels in the brain and this in turn may lead to a stroke. When this blood clot clocks the blood vessels of your heart, it stops the blood from rushing to your heart area thereby reducing the oxygen supply to that area. This in turn leads to cardiac arrest.

All the above mentioned conditions arising from blood clots, which in turn are caused from a regular intake of Tamoxifen, can prove to be life threatening for the concerned individual. Hence, even before you decide to take this medication on a regular basis, you need to exercise caution and be prepared to face the ill effects of this so called ‘wonder-drug’.



Increased susceptibility to gyno -

Tamoxifen is often used to combat gyno during cycle when “flare ups” occur. While Tamoxifen may provide immediate inhibition of proliferation, and serve as valuable tool, it can actually increase future susceptibility to gyno.

This is caused by Tamoxifen’s ability to up-regulate the progesterone receptor. (54-56) This can dramatically increase the chances of developing gyno in future cycles when utilizing progestin based anabolics such as nandrolone (deca) or trenbolone (or any pro-hormone acting upon the progesterone receptor).

It is interesting to speculate. Is Tamoxifen use directly related to the increased gyno occurrences seen with modern day steroid users?


You Can Develop Cataract!

Cataract can be defined as a thin white layer of membrane which blocks the passing light to the RetinA thereby clouding your vision. Although it is relatively painless, it does cloud your vision and can even blind you if it is not removed through the means of a surgical procedure. The RetinA is ideally a nerve layer which is located at the back of the eye socket and its main purpose is to direct the light which is entering the eye via the means of electromagnetic signals to the brain. Once the brain receives these nerve signals, it is passed on to the nervous system, after which you can transform your vision into clear moving pictures. If this thin layer of membrane is blocked owing to any reason, you would have problems with your vision.

While aging is looked on as the major cause behind cataract, it has recently been noticed that patients using Tamoxifen have been identified as ones susceptible to cataract on a regular basis. people who are aging and using this drug on a regular basis are on a higher risk of contracting cataract as compared to those who are not using Tamoxifen. The other eye problems that can be faced by individuals include scarring of the corneal area and abrupt retinal changes.

In case you are using this drug regularly and you have a cloudy, fuzzy or foggy vision, you need to get your eyesight checked with immediate effect. In case you are unable to withstand the glare of lamps and are unable to catch a glimpse of the morning sun, then again you need to get your eyes checked. This is so because, Temoxifen has a natural tendency to obstruct the normal eye vision and if you do suffer from this symptom, you may not be able to drive at night as the headlamps of the opposing vehicle may blind you momentarily.


In order to get rid of cataract that has been developed owing to a continuous intake of Temoxifen, you may need to undergo a corrective surgery. In case you want to delay a surgical procedure, you may want to light up your room with plenty of tubes and bulbs and keep your eyeglass up to date with the latest prescription. Ideally, the only known cure for cataract that has been a resultant of Temoxifen is a surgical procedure.

If you would like to avoid this problem, you would have to seek an alternative to Temoxifen at the earliest given opportunity.



Libido reduction & erectile dysfunction
Erectile dysfunction ow libido, and general impotence are typical complaints from men recently discontinuing steroids or HRT therapy, which is often combated by Clomid or Nolvadex, paradoxically so.

Regardless of any positive effects on fertility or testosterone levels, Clomid and Nolvadex use is highly correlated with erectile dysfunction, libido suppression, and even emotional disorders Research with male breast cancer patients has also reported decreased libido, and thrombosis associated with Tamoxifen use. he thrombotic effect (blood vessel clogging) could explain the mechanism by which SERMs may inhibit erectile function, by reducing circulation to erectile tissue (as discussed before)


nolva/Clomid both raise shbg.
This is something I do not see a lot of people disusing so I I wanted to make it well know. Just do a web search on Tamoxifen,Clomid or nolva raises shbg or any variation and you will get all the studies and prof you need.
Trait Anxiety and Tamoxifen Effects on Bone Mineral Density and Sex Hormone- Binding Globulin -- Cameron et al. 64 (4): 612 -- Psychosomatic Medicine
iHOP - Information Hyperlinked over Proteins [ SHBG ]
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin in Clinical Perspective; Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica - 66(3):Pages 255-262 - Informa Healthcare
Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

2. nolva lowers IGF-1 Again just a simple search on (Tamoxifen or nolva lowers IGF 1 and walla you got all the prof you need.

In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf
Effect of low dose Tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women
Comparison of Tamoxifen and testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology


They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hypertriglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis

Severe hypertriglyceridemia caused by Tamoxifen-tr... [Endocr J. 1997] - PubMed result
Tamoxifen-induced hypertriglyceridemia in association with diabetes mellitus - EM|consulte
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Capecitabine-Induced Severe Hypertriglyceridemia: Report of Two Cases -- Kurt et al. 40 (2): 328 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy
Elsevier: Article Locator
Estrogen and Triglycerides
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../11/8/1067.pdf
WikiGenes - Hypertriglyceridemia


A word on Clomiphene (Clomid) –

Clomiphene (Clomid) consists of two stereoisomers which possess radically different pharmacodynamics. Zuclomiphene has predominantly estrogenic effects and slow clearance while the enclomiphene isomer has predominately anti-estrogenic effects and quick clearance. his creates a divergent effects between estrogen blockage and estrogen stimulation and an acute imbalance once Clomid administration is discontinued. Bodybuilders will often complain of “estrogenic rebound” after stopping Clomid, which could be attributed to the lingering estrogenic isomer zuclomiphene as the anti-estrogenic enclomiphene has long cleared the system. (Recently, enclomiphene has been isolated by the pharmaceutical company Repros, for use in Androxal™.)

For all intents and purposes, Tamoxifen is a superior SERM, simply for the fact that Tamoxifen provides a purely anti-estrogenic isomer, whereas Clomid provides a mix of anti and pro estrogenic effects.

In regards to the health consequences about to be listed, it can be safely assumed that Clomid will share similar detrimental effects as Tamoxifen, since it shares the same triphenylethylene backbone and carcinogenic tendencies.


One of the main reasons why people make use of Clomid is for the purpose of recovering their bodies after a steroid cycle In simple words, this drug is mainly used in the form of post cycle therapy. Clomid has the actual potential to stimulate the production of hypothalamus which in turn would release a particular kind of hormone called gonadotrophic hormones. This hormone has the natural ability to allow the human testicles to secrete testosterone, which in turn would bring the depleting levels of testosterone in the body to its permissible levels. When this is achieved, the human body would stop losing its muscle mass in a natural way. Reacovery of test production is the gaols at any cost is the common thought.


Its a known fact that both Clomid and Nolvadex cause some really messed up mood swings.
Clomid/nolva have been known to cause severe mood swings in users and it has apparently been noticed that anyone who has been making use of Clomid/nolva have suffered from such side effects on a regular basis. Many users have categorically complained that the use of Clomid has been considered as the worst side effect that they have suffered so far. A few features of mood swings may include a change in the usual behaviour, tearful behaviour, excessive depression, anxiety and extremely sensitive in nature. Stop acting like you don't know what I am talking about. We all know its true.


Liver cancer -

Originally, Tamoxifen was accepted as being non-toxic to the human liver upon finding that Tamoxifen did not cause noticeable liver damage (DNA adducts) during short-term test tube studies with human liver cells.

However, it became apparent that test tube research was largely flawed due to the low rate of metabolism in such a superficial environment. It was soon discovered that the hepatotoxic effects from Tamoxifen stem from the metabolism and buildup of the a-hydroxytamoxifen and N-desmethyltamoxifen metabolites, which would only appear in an in vivo environment. Surely enough, the results from the original rat studies showing dramatic carcinogenic effects on the liver, soon correlated with human data when researchers found the same type of liver DNA adducts in Tamoxifen patients.

More recent human research has reported Tamoxifen treated women to have 3x the risk of developing fatty liver disease, which occurs as soon as 3 months into therapy at only 20mg/day. In some cases, the disease lasts up to 3 years, despite cessation of Tamoxifen therapy. Five and ten year follow-ups with patients on long term Tamoxifen therapy show cases of deadly hepatocellular carcinoma.

In 2002, a bizarre study examined the use of Tamoxifen for hepatocellular carcinoma treatment in humans. It was assumed that since Tamoxifen could inhibit proliferation of breast cancer, it could offer the same benefit for liver cancer. The devastating results could not have been more indicative of Tamoxifen’s hepatotoxic nature, as the Tamoxifen treatment significantly increased the rate of death, compared to the group not receiving Tamoxifen.

Finally, in a case study reviewing Tamoxifen induced liver disease; D.F Moffat et al made a profound statement –

“Hepatocellular carcinoma in Tamoxifen treated patients may be under-reported since there may be reluctance to biopsy liver tumours which are assumed to be secondary carcinoma of the breast.” In other words, it appears that liver carcinomas from a large number of breast cancer patients on Tamoxifen therapy have been misdiagnosed as an infection from the breast cancer itself.

Although Tamoxifen induced liver cancer may take years to manifest in a healthy male, its damaging effects could easily be exaggerated by other popular hepatotoxic drugs, such as 17aa oral steroids.



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Needto straight up typed that shit from memory too^^^^:evil:

He dont need no stinking copy and paste.
 
Bottom line...

Sometimes Nolva works -- but it kills gains, detroys lipids and may have a rebound effect.

Sometimes Clomid works -- but if it doesn't you feel like shit, have no sex drive and once you're off, you're supressed all over agin.

YOU DO NOT NEED EITHER OF THEM.

The key is to get your body working optimally on it's own. So using what helps your body is best, not using something else to rely on.

Sure, drugs have their place. HCG is great to get things moving and dex is good to assure E doesn't get too high. But as for actual recovery, THAT you have to do on your own, and supps can help.


Yep. I would rather do nothing for PCT than use Nolva. Clomid is still debatable for me I have only tried it once so its hard to say whether its any good.

Natty sups are best to aid your body doing its natural recovery. Whether a lot of them are worth the $$ is hard to say.
 
What are you using? Sustaplex

What are you planing or looking forward to use? Beast and N2 Dbol V1. Late July or Early August -21 day blast!!!

What will you never use again? Crack cocaine

What have you learned abut PCT that was different than you once thought? Importance of HCG on cycle.

Let's hear it!

PCT-

Low dose Clomid, Exemestane(as needed), HCG(on cycle).

The natty portion of my PCT will include:

Post Cycle
Unleashed
Forma-Stanzol
Hcgenerate

???? On Guard????
Other supplements which help Lipids, Livers, Kidneys and Heart.
EFA's, Krill, Ameal BP, Blood Pressure Success, Buckets of water, Liv. 52


N2 essential supplements on and off cycle. Currently using.
Unleashed
Gear
Replenisher
Ancient Strength
N2KTS- fuckers
N2Matrix


Bridge, at some point this year.

Blood panels done in May. 37 y/o Total Test 537. HDL borderline. All else is G2G.
 
PCT-

Low dose Clomid, Exemestane(as needed), HCG(on cycle).

The natty portion of my PCT will include:

Post Cycle
Unleashed
Forma-Stanzol
Hcgenerate

???? On Guard????
Other supplements which help Lipids, Livers, Kidneys and Heart.
EFA's, Krill, Ameal BP, Blood Pressure Success, Buckets of water, Liv. 52


N2 essential supplements on and off cycle. Currently using.
Unleashed
Gear
Replenisher
Ancient Strength
N2KTS- fuckers
N2Matrix


Bridge, at some point this year.

Blood panels done in May. 37 y/o Total Test 537. HDL borderline. All else is G2G.
Me likey!
 
All I can tell Nolva/Clomid PCT brought my T levels from 287ng/ml to 750ng/ml.Here the real example.
So I can tell this works for me for sure.
Just my 2 cents.
I wouldn't mind to try forma-stanozol next time



You simply recovered. MAYBE, the nolva spiked T levels by spiking estrogen, but it's very temporary. There's no way it'll raise T by 200% and keep it there. If it did, no one would need to do steroids, we'd all just do nolvadex.
 
before I went on trt/hrt after cycles this is an eg of what id do for pct:

wk1-6 30mg dbol ed
wk1-14 testE500mgew
wk1-12 300mgdeca ew
wk10-15 HCG 500iu 2X a week
wk15-19 nolvadex wk1 30mg ed/ wk2 30mg ed/ wk3 20mg ed/ wk4 20mg ed
AI on hand

wish I knew about HCGenerate back then so i coudl add it in for extra help like this:

wk19-14 HCGenerate


been only hearing great stuff about it but makes no sence for me to use it now.
 
for my pct after my 16 week cycle ill go whit, for pct:

sarms 4
hcgenerate
nolva and post cycle and some humalog

think that will do the trick!
 
right now I'm running clomid with bridge 6 caps e/d, and ancient strength stacked with attack as my pct from a hd/pp cycle.


the cycle sucked balls, but the pct is going freaking terrific!
 
for my pct after my 16 week cycle ill go whit, for pct:

sarms 4
hcgenerate
nolva and post cycle and some humalog

think that will do the trick!

I dont think anyone needs to be using humalog for any reason and I would use the sarms "after pct" as a post pct or bridge.
 
My last Pct I ran nolva 40/40/20/20, hcgenerate, unleashed and sustain.

I still crashed for a while when i ended pct, I think nolva raised e and decreased igf and ws counterproductive to recovery

So this time im going to try this

HCG week 3-12 of cycle 250 iu 2x EW 500iu ed for last week

Nolva 10mg ed 4weeks
Arimidex .25mg e4d
hcgenerate
unleashed
forma stanzol
creatine monohyrdrate

then following up with bridge
 
Last edited:
My last Pct I ran nolva 40/40/20/20, hcgenerate, unleashed and sustain.

I still crashed for a while when i ended pct, I think nolva raised e and decreased igf and ws counterproductive to recovery

So this time im going to try this

HCG week 3-12 of cycle 250 iu 2x EW 500iu ed for last week

Nolva 10mg ed 4weeks
Arimidex .25mg e4d
hcgenerate
unleashed
forma stanzol
creatine monohyrdrate

then following up with bridge

If the nolva fucked you up, why are you using it again? Are you prone to gyno?
 
If the nolva fucked you up, why are you using it again? Are you prone to gyno?

I figured at a low dose it wouldnt spike estrogen too much and decrese IGF just boost LH?

If I could get aromasin I would run that.

Could I use arimidex in place of aromasin and not worry about low dose nolva?

I was hoping you would chime in and give your advice

Oh and no not prone to gyno mate
 
I figured at a low dose it wouldnt spike estrogen too much and decrese IGF just boost LH?

If I could get aromasin I would run that.

Could I use arimidex in place of aromasin and not worry about low dose nolva?

I was hoping you would chime in and give your advice

Oh and no not prone to gyno mate

Yeah, aromasin from RXhealth. Much better.
 
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