plot me a trusted PCT regimen please!

[Johnny_Whoops]

Hey guys, I got a little help from a few of you about a month ago on planning my upcoming cycle. I'm fairly certain I'm going to run:

1 Test e. 500/Deca 750
2 Test e. 500/Deca 750
3 Test e. 500/Deca 300
4 Test e. 500/Deca 300
5 Test e. 500/Deca 300
6 Test e. 500/Deca 300
7 Test e. 500/Deca 300
8 Test e. 500/Deca 300
9 Test e. 500
10 Test e. 500

What I'd like to know is if you can give me a clear and precise idea of how to run PCT and with what? I've heard so many mixed ideas and don't know what's not a good idea given the compounds I'm going to use. I know I need an AI a anti e. and a SERM? Can anyone weigh in?

 

[Mac173]

First off I would keep the deca at 300 throughout.
Everybody does PCT a little differant but this is what I usually do.
Day after last injection start HCG @500iu for 10 consecutive days.
Depending on the ester length I will start clomid and nolvadex at 50 and 20 per day at the proper time.
Clomid for 3-4wks and nolva for 2-3wks.
I'll use an AI as needed.
This is not set in stone but should give you a pretty good idea of what a succesfull PCT should look like.

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

Okay. Can you quick school me on HCG? The who/what/where/why and how? Also, what's ur preferred AI, Mac?

 

[davidkeir]

i wouldent run the deca throughout the pct because it will prevent your body from making its natural test and youll be on cycle all the time which means build up of cholesterol increased chance of gyno etic.you dont need both clomid and nolvadex because they both have the same purpose in pct which is incresing lh levels so save your money and buy nolvadex its more affective at incresing lh and its cheaper as for the hcg which is the most importent drug in pct do 1500iu evrey 3rd day for two week no longer or it will suppress your normal production of test . one more thing youll have a high amount of anabolics in your system for about three weeks or more so i would start the hcg on the third or fourth week after you stop the drugs .for the amount of steriods youve been taken i would start on the fourth week you can start the nolvadex at the second week

 

[boston789]

I usually do 500-750iu's of hcg eod for the last two weeks of my cycle. Then run clomid at 50mg ed for another 2 weeks after that; this time im throwing in derma and its working pretty well thus far.

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

so there is no real answer to PCT based on the test e./deca combo? I mean, it's not like Clomid or Nolva is a def no-go because of what I'm going to use in-cycle? Also, how do you take hcg?

 

[Mac173]

Okay. Can you quick school me on HCG? The who/what/where/why and how? Also, what's ur preferred AI, Mac?

There's tons of info. on HCG.
Just look around.

 

[davidkeir]

whot do you mean how do you take hcg you inject it just like steriods any time of the day it comes in two bottles that you mix together a solvent and a powder.it comes in 1500iu 3000iu and 5000iu bottles any solotion you have left has to be cept refrigerated.

 

[blackthunder]

I thought the only PCT we are to talk about is the use of Dermacrine. All of the other PCT have been proven useless compaired to it.

 

[Primordial Performance]

The only reason HCG should be ran after a cycle is if a poor, uneducated soul forgot to run it during his cycle… in which he has no option but to run it after a cycle.

If you wait 12 weeks to start injecting HCG, you’ve waited too long. Your testis are atrophied, IGF-3, inter-testicular testosterone, cytoplamic volume – all shot to hell. HCG will not bring back full testicular volume if you wait this long to use it - especially on a test/deca combo.

HCG needs to be ran on cycle at 250iu every other day to keep your testis sensitized. The longer you wait to use it, the higher dose you will have to use, and the less likely it is to stimulate the testes back to normal size.

I’m submitting a Meso article about this next week, in hopes of ending this post-cycle-hCG nonsense once and for all.

-Pp

 

[jimmy04]

i get hcg in 6 litl amps 3 liquid 3 powder it comes in a box. this will be my 1st tym using it as i usualy find clomid is good enough i stay at low dose cycles tho

 

[Primordial Performance]

I thought the only PCT we are to talk about is the use of Dermacrine. All of the other PCT have been proven useless compaired to it.

Yes... yes -- This is true.



-Pp

 

[jimmy04]

so u should use hcg from start 2 finish and beyond?

 

[Primordial Performance]

so u should use hcg from start 2 finish and beyond?

No, not beyond. It needs to be dropped before the cycle is over. Preferably a week before the AAS levels drop.

-Pp

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

perfect. I was waiting for a knowledgable guy like you Primordial, weighed in. So kill the hcg a week before last injection of cycle, then given I'm using deca and test e. wait about 3 weeks to run PCT? Again, what should be used? (Clomid vs. Nolva) and when do I use an AI?

 

[jimmy04]

so Primordial on what grounds do u have 2 beleave this?
very interesting theory. is ther n e reserch 2 back this up.
it dose sound logical tho keepem running throu out rather thn letin em shut dwn n start em up agen.

 

[Primordial Performance]

perfect. I was waiting for a knowledgable guy like you Primordial, weighed in. So kill the hcg a week before last injection of cycle, then given I'm using deca and test e. wait about 3 weeks to run PCT? Again, what should be used? (Clomid vs. Nolva) and when do I use an AI?

With all conflict of interest aside – I personally would use Derma Sustain over the clomid and nolva.

If I didn’t have the dermacrine sustain, Id opt for an aromatase inhibitor such as arimidex ran the last 3 weeks of the cycle…. And if I didn’t have an AI then I would choose a test booster like myogenx or maca.... and if I didnt have that then I would bang my head with a hammer hoping for a GH release…. and if I didnt have that then I would run nothing at all, and avoid clomid or nolva at all costs.

Seriously though, you greatly negate your need for PCT when you run the HCG on cycle and if you keep your estrogen in control then you pretty much negate the need for either nolva or clomid.

-Pp

 

[Primordial Performance]

so Primordial on what grounds do u have 2 beleave this?
very interesting theory. is ther n e reserch 2 back this up.
it dose sound logical tho keepem running throu out rather thn letin em shut dwn n start em up agen.

Believe what?

-Pp

 

[jimmy04]

primordial "Believe what?"
the whole hcg through the cycle thing.
lyk i sed b 4 it dose sound as if it would wrk.

 

[Primordial Performance]

primordial "Believe what?"
the whole hcg through the cycle thing.
lyk i sed b 4 it dose sound as if it would wrk.

Like I said, I will be submitting an in-depth and fully referenced article within the week on this very subject.

Unfortunately, much of the bodybuilding community has the attention span of a goldfish, and cant stand reading the lengthy scientific articles. That’s why, I just have to come out and say -- “this is the way it is”

Rest assured, all the advice I give is either well scientifically referenced, manifested though years of real-life experience, or both.

-Pp

 

[Mac173]

The only reason HCG should be ran after a cycle is if a poor, uneducated soul forgot to run it during his cycle… in which he has no option but to run it after a cycle.

If you wait 12 weeks to start injecting HCG, you’ve waited too long. Your testis are atrophied, IGF-3, inter-testicular testosterone, cytoplamic volume – all shot to hell. HCG will not bring back full testicular volume if you wait this long to use it - especially on a test/deca combo.

HCG needs to be ran on cycle at 250iu every other day to keep your testis sensitized. The longer you wait to use it, the higher dose you will have to use, and the less likely it is to stimulate the testes back to normal size.

I’m submitting a Meso article about this next week, in hopes of ending this post-cycle-hCG nonsense once and for all.

-Pp

Opinion alert opinion alert
Not everybody does it that way.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hey guys, I got a little help from a few of you about a month ago on planning my upcoming cycle. I'm fairly certain I'm going to run:

1 Test e. 500/Deca 750
2 Test e. 500/Deca 750
3 Test e. 500/Deca 300
4 Test e. 500/Deca 300
5 Test e. 500/Deca 300
6 Test e. 500/Deca 300
7 Test e. 500/Deca 300
8 Test e. 500/Deca 300
9 Test e. 500
10 Test e. 500

What I'd like to know is if you can give me a clear and precise idea of how to run PCT and with what? I've heard so many mixed ideas and don't know what's not a good idea given the compounds I'm going to use. I know I need an AI a anti e. and a SERM? Can anyone weigh in?

Is that a recent picture? Have you begun lifting weights yet?

 

[Primordial Performance]

Opinion alert opinion alert
Not everybody does it that way.

I know not everybody does it that way... and its a problem.

Its not an opinion, but a fact, that you become less sensitive to HCG the longer you wait to use it, and you risk damaging your steroidogenic pathways with the higher dose required to stimulate the leydigs once you reach this point. Your also less likely to return to full normal size if you wait till the end of the cycle.

Sorry Mac, I didn’t meat to imply your uneducated. I just see no reason why someone wouldn’t run it during cycle or advise against it.

-Pp

 

[tin2]

I know not everybody does it that way... and its a problem.

Its not an opinion, but a fact, that you become less sensitive to HCG the longer you wait to use it, and you risk damaging your steroidogenic pathways with the higher dose required to stimulate the leydigs once you reach this point. Your also less likely to return to full normal size if you wait till the end of the cycle.

Sorry Mac, I didn’t meat to imply your uneducated. I just see no reason why someone wouldn’t run it during cycle or advise against it.

-Pp

just take nolvadex along with HCG and u dont have to worry about that.

 

[Primordial Performance]

just take nolvadex along with HCG and u dont have to worry about that.

-Pp

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

Hey Nelson, hot diss. Thanks for your keen advice.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hey Nelson, hot diss. Thanks for your keen advice.

Dude, lighten up. No diss on you -- it's on your cycle. You're juicing like you're going for the Sandow.

I GUARANTEE YOU CAN MAKE BETTER GAINS WITH BETTER TRAINING AND SOME SUPPS AND NO GEAR, THAN YOU ARE MAKING NOW WITH ALL THAT CRAP.

That's the issue and the best advice you've gotten so far. I hate to see anyone hurt themself.

Somebody's got to say it.

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

Whatever bro. You tooled my pic and asked if I started lifting. Actually, I'm 6', 210 and haven't started the cycle yet. I dead 415 for reps and bench 315. I'm actually pretty well sized for a natty guy, and prob. one of the strongest natty guys in the gym. I come to this board for good honest advice. I've seen you give it. I'd rather you not chime in if you can't help. You just come off like a jaggoff.

 

[blackthunder]

Whatever bro. You tooled my pic and asked if I started lifting. Actually, I'm 6', 210 and haven't started the cycle yet. I dead 415 for reps and bench 315. I'm actually pretty well sized for a natty guy, and prob. one of the strongest natty guys in the gym. I come to this board for good honest advice. I've seen you give it. I'd rather you not chime in if you can't help. You just come off like a jaggoff.

don't sweat him bro. At 210 you're almost twice his size!

 

[njmuscleguy]

I've tried all variations of PCT, which have included HCG, Nolva, Clomid and an AI. I don't like Nolva one bit.... it didn't work for me and it killed my libido. Clomid was more effective, but the sides were unbearable. Crash was still inevitable. The best PCT to date (not including my current, which I will judge when it's over) for me was to do HCG during the last 10 days of the cycle, at 500iu ED, if running short esters, or 10 days after last test shot if running long-acting esters. Used aromasin until several days after HCG. Started Clomid several days after last HCG shot, at 50mg ED, for 4-6 weeks. My cycles have all been relatively short, 8-10 weeks. I've never tried using HCG during cycle, so I can't comment on that... but I will give it a try. Otherwise, this is the PCT that has worked best for me, even if it wasn't 100% satisfactory.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Whatever bro. You tooled my pic and asked if I started lifting. Actually, I'm 6', 210 and haven't started the cycle yet. I dead 415 for reps and bench 315. I'm actually pretty well sized for a natty guy, and prob. one of the strongest natty guys in the gym. I come to this board for good honest advice. I've seen you give it. I'd rather you not chime in if you can't help. You just come off like a jaggoff.

Okay, now we're talking. You're obviously very strong. Natty? You've never done juice before? If that's so, you're not going about it the best way. You can make trendous gains if you're that strong. If you've done cycles like you posted yet don't have much muscle yet can bench 315 while off, something is very very wrong. Something isn't working for you.

You need to change things up. There are a lot of ways to go. My point is, more gear isn't the answer. It isn't putting much muscle on you anyway and you don't need it to be stronger in order to lift more.

My first guess out of the box is that you need to train with more volume. That's one thing.

Seriously bro, you don't need a gram and a half to look like a normal fit guy. I'm telling you -- proper training and some supps will make you look better. Isn't that the goal? Sometimes I get the feeling people are more interested in doing cyles just for the activity of it. They ain't working for you.

And yeah, blackthunder. 210 is twice my size. I've competed and done body modeling at 110 pounds. Why do people say shit that just makes them look ignorant?

JOHNNY; I'm just trying to help. I got your attention. No need to fall apart over it. I'll help any way I can. But I won't do it by just encouraging you to do whatever you want to hear. Apparently I'm alone in this decision.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Okay, now we're talking. You're obviously very strong. Natty? You've never done juice before? If that's so, you're not going about it the best way. You can make trendous gains if you're that strong. If you've done cycles like you posted yet don't have much muscle yet can bench 315 while off, something is very very wrong. Something isn't working for you.

You need to change things up. There are a lot of ways to go. My point is, more gear isn't the answer. It isn't putting much muscle on you anyway and you don't need it to be stronger in order to lift more.

My first guess out of the box is that you need to train with more volume. That's one thing.

Seriously bro, you don't need a gram and a half to look like a normal fit guy. I'm telling you -- proper training and some supps will make you look better. Isn't that the goal? Sometimes I get the feeling people are more interested in doing cyles just for the activity of it. They ain't working for you.

And yeah, blackthunder. 210 is twice my size. I've competed and done body modeling at 110 pounds. Why do people say shit that just makes them look ignorant?

JOHNNY; I'm just trying to help. I got your attention. No need to fall apart over it. I'll help any way I can. But I won't do it by just encouraging you to do whatever you want to hear. Apparently I'm alone in this decision.

Bears repeating. No takers?

 

[Mac173]

Okay, now we're talking. You're obviously very strong. Natty? You've never done juice before? If that's so, you're not going about it the best way. You can make trendous gains if you're that strong. If you've done cycles like you posted yet don't have much muscle yet can bench 315 while off, something is very very wrong. Something isn't working for you.

You need to change things up. There are a lot of ways to go. My point is, more gear isn't the answer. It isn't putting much muscle on you anyway and you don't need it to be stronger in order to lift more.

My first guess out of the box is that you need to train with more volume. That's one thing.

Seriously bro, you don't need a gram and a half to look like a normal fit guy. I'm telling you -- proper training and some supps will make you look better. Isn't that the goal? Sometimes I get the feeling people are more interested in doing cyles just for the activity of it. They ain't working for you.

And yeah, blackthunder. 210 is twice my size. I've competed and done body modeling at 110 pounds. Why do people say shit that just makes them look ignorant?

JOHNNY; I'm just trying to help. I got your attention. No need to fall apart over it. I'll help any way I can. But I won't do it by just encouraging you to do whatever you want to hear. Apparently I'm alone in this decision.

Bears repeating. No takers?

Get over yourself.
Your post wasn't that impressive.
Maybe I'm alone in this decision though.

 

[blackthunder]

It's a little chicken shit to ask someone if they even started working out when they ask for advice on PCT. You dont know what his goals are, maybe he does not want to look like Cutler or a female fitness model. Someone could look at your pic and wonder when the last time you had a meal. Does that mean you look like shit, no, it just shows we all have our own goals in mind.

 

[niv]

Like I said, I will be submitting an in-depth and fully referenced article within the week on this very subject.

Unfortunately, much of the bodybuilding community has the attention span of a goldfish, and cant stand reading the lengthy scientific articles. That’s why, I just have to come out and say -- “this is the way it is”

Rest assured, all the advice I give is either well scientifically referenced, manifested though years of real-life experience, or both.

-Pp

on the one hand you say you have evidence that using clomid is no good, and on the other hand you have a product you are trying to sell that replaces clomid.. so i have to ask..... who in their right fucking mind would actually believe you are trying to help them and not sell your product!?!

 

[Nelson Montana]

It's a little chicken shit to ask someone if they even started working out when they ask for advice on PCT. You dont know what his goals are, maybe he does not want to look like Cutler or a female fitness model. Someone could look at your pic and wonder when the last time you had a meal. Does that mean you look like shit, no, it just shows we all have our own goals in mind.

Don't be an ass. It has nothing to do with looking like Cutler. It has to do with looking better. Whatever his goal is, he can do it safely and more effectiveley. I'm trying to help the guy.

You think I'm too lean? Fine. I like it that way. But I'm not taking a gram and a half of gear to acheive it!!!

Mac: I've tried to explain things to you but now I know why you agrue with me at every turn. You're just a douchebag.

 

[Mac173]

Don't be an ass. It has nothing to do with looking like Cutler. It has to do with looking better. Whatever his goal is, he can do it safely and more effectiveley. I'm trying to help the guy.

You think I'm too lean? Fine. I like it that way. But I'm not taking a gram and a half of gear to acheive it!!!

Mac: I've tried to explain things to you but now I know why you agrue with me at every turn. You're just a douchebag.

I would expect you to say something so infintile.
I argue w/ you because of the way you come across to people.
Just look how many people you've pissed off in this thread alone.
It's not necessary and you should look at how you conduct yourself and the way you portray yourself.
I'm not saying that you don't have knowledge and experience(still debating on that one) but if you handled yourself differantly maybe you wouldn't be so counterproductive in your advice.

 

[Primordial Performance]

on the one hand you say you have evidence that using clomid is no good, and on the other hand you have a product you are trying to sell that replaces clomid.. so i have to ask..... who in their right fucking mind would actually believe you are trying to help them and not sell your product!?!

Well I suppose its possible to do those two things at the same time – no?

I think its obvious I’m trying to sell a product and just because Im selling it does not make my advise wrong – just bias.

-Pp

 

[NickyE3]

johhny_whoops check ur karma message

 

[blackthunder]

I think its obvious I’m trying to sell a product and just because Im selling it does not make my advise wrong – just bias.

-Pp

that was the most honest thing I have seen a sponser post. Thank you, its very refreshing. I totally agree, you can be right and bias at the same time!

 

[rfowler]

I would expect you to say something so infintile.
I argue w/ you because of the way you come across to people.
Just look how many people you've pissed off in this thread alone.
It's not necessary and you should look at how you conduct yourself and the way you portray yourself.
I'm not saying that you don't have knowledge and experience(still debating on that one) but if you handled yourself differantly maybe you wouldn't be so counterproductive in your advice.

I agree 100% with you bro. TACT is a word that would help alot of people on here, Im interested though what supplements can build muscle as good as anabolics?

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

Alright, back to my thread. Didn't mean to stir shit up with everyone. Just looking for a little guidance. Here's my story to clarify a little....I did one cycle in my life....1! This was 7 years ago or so at 22. I'm 30 now. I've been training steadily since and long before....you know, a couple of little breaks here and there, but I'm a gym guy. I ran Sust. and Deca at decent levels...500/400, and ran them for 10 weeks on that first and only cycle. I PCT'ed with clomid alone based on forum adivce 7 years ago (AE forum). I made great gains. Yeah, I'm lifting 315 right now but I'm stuck here...my gains have all slowed. I'm not going for heavy lifts as much as I am looking for a well-rounded and jacked physique. However, I do like to train with heavy weight and get satisfaction in lifting more and more over time. Who doesn't want good lifts? I also am inpressed with my deadlifting, so I like to keep that going. Anyway, my goals are to maintain a beefy build....I'm happy with 11-12% bodyfat on my frame. I'm at about 16% right now but I've been bulking through the winter.

You may be right that my plotted cycle is too heavy! In fact, I hope it is! I don't NEED to go hog wild. I was just insturcted to run that cycle on this board based on the gear I've bought. FYI, I have two vials of test e. 250mg/ml and two vials of Deca 300mg/ml. I'm not saying I HAVE to run a heavy cycle...I'm really kind of looking for someone with similar goals that (hopefully) has a similar frame to give me their advice based on experience. That's all...not looking to hate or to be on the receiving end of any ill will. Any help is appreciated! p.s. I also plan to fully document my cycle with pics on this board in hopes it will help someone else like me!

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

^^^ Bump ^^^

 

[Nelson Montana]

Alright, back to my thread. Didn't mean to stir shit up with everyone. Just looking for a little guidance. Here's my story to clarify a little....I did one cycle in my life....1! This was 7 years ago or so at 22. I'm 30 now. I've been training steadily since and long before....you know, a couple of little breaks here and there, but I'm a gym guy. I ran Sust. and Deca at decent levels...500/400, and ran them for 10 weeks on that first and only cycle. I PCT'ed with clomid alone based on forum adivce 7 years ago (AE forum). I made great gains. Yeah, I'm lifting 315 right now but I'm stuck here...my gains have all slowed. I'm not going for heavy lifts as much as I am looking for a well-rounded and jacked physique. However, I do like to train with heavy weight and get satisfaction in lifting more and more over time. Who doesn't want good lifts? I also am inpressed with my deadlifting, so I like to keep that going. Anyway, my goals are to maintain a beefy build....I'm happy with 11-12% bodyfat on my frame. I'm at about 16% right now but I've been bulking through the winter.

You may be right that my plotted cycle is too heavy! In fact, I hope it is! I don't NEED to go hog wild. I was just insturcted to run that cycle on this board based on the gear I've bought. FYI, I have two vials of test e. 250mg/ml and two vials of Deca 300mg/ml. I'm not saying I HAVE to run a heavy cycle...I'm really kind of looking for someone with similar goals that (hopefully) has a similar frame to give me their advice based on experience. That's all...not looking to hate or to be on the receiving end of any ill will. Any help is appreciated! p.s. I also plan to fully document my cycle with pics on this board in hopes it will help someone else like me!

Okay, this would be my advice.

First off, if you've only done one cycle and it was long ago, you can cut your dosages in half. You're 30 and strong and have a decent frame so the idea should be to pack on more muscle.

Deca is nasty shit. I hate it but others may disagree. I think 500 mgs of test is plenty but a little oral will really kick it in -- say 25 mgs of anavar. That will leave you with little chance of gyno -- which is really the only negative side to estrogen.

EAT EAT EAT and EAT SOME MORE. PROTEIN! PROTEIN! PROTEIN!

If you want full shapely muscles you have to go for the pump. Train in the 10-12 rep range, but HEAVY. Take short rest inbetween sets. At least 10 sets a bodypart. 2 bodyparts a day. Train 6 days a week. HARD! You must give your body a reason to grow. You'll stay lean while building. Cutting calories while juicing is like trying to hit a home run while standing on one leg. You're just making it hard for yourself and the drugs. Let them work to their fullest.

Of course I'm going to recomened the supps I designed becasue that's the reason I designed them! If I were like some (newly departed) people I'd make the suggestion just because I sell something. I don't work that way.

During cycle. Use UNLEASHED and BIG BLAST. Unleashed will make the most the higher test levesl and Big Blast is an easy way to get superior aminos, creatine, etc.

For PCT. I'd recommend a little HCG just to kick start things and a little a-dex to counteract the estrogen spike from increasing LH. Just one week of this.

I'd take MyogenX (which I don't make a cent off of) because it can help the HCG. I'd then use this: http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=110&cat=0&page=1 along with the Unleashed for one month afterward. For extra insurance you can add CytogenX or Dermacrine. I hear they're good. Again, I have no financial interest in either. If you wanted to just use my products I have no problem. Just offereing what i consider sound advice.

Train like a motherfucker. Sleep as much as you can. You'll grow.

And there you have it bro. Good luck.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Bump for johnny's input.

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

Thanks for the input Nelson. It sounds insightful for sure. A few things. I don't know if I can score anavar. May not be able to...
Also, with the PCT, can you give me more of an accurate plan week by week? I second guess timing of each. Treat me like the retard I am (nahh, it's just if you re-read your post it's not exact). Thanks

 

[needtogetaas]

It's a little chicken shit to ask someone if they even started working out when they ask for advice on PCT. You dont know what his goals are, maybe he does not want to look like Cutler or a female fitness model. Someone could look at your pic and wonder when the last time you had a meal. Does that mean you look like shit, no, it just shows we all have our own goals in mind.

people do it all the time around here bro...every one has deferent goals

 

[blackthunder]

people do it all the time around here bro...every one has deferent goals

you are right my friend, but to ask someone if the pic was of them, and if they even started working out yet is just a little childish, especially when the person asking is a tiny little man, which is ok it that is his goal.

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

it's all good. He claims he wasn't hazing so let's give him the benefit of the doubt. It was directed at me and I'm confident in my stature enough to know he was way off point, even though it wasn't nice I'm just looking for knowledge. This is just a forum.

Nelson wrote: "Is that a recent picture? Have you begun lifting weights yet?"

I haven't had anyone say that to me since I was 12. I'm a baaaaad man..lol. I'll get some pics up here in a few weeks. Headed to Cabo on Friday

 

[needtogetaas]

it's all good. He claims he wasn't hazing so let's give him the benefit of the doubt. It was directed at me and I'm confident in my stature enough to know he was way off point, even though it wasn't nice I'm just looking for knowledge. This is just a forum.

Nelson wrote: "Is that a recent picture? Have you begun lifting weights yet?"

I haven't had anyone say that to me since I was 12. I'm a baaaaad man..lol. I'll get some pics up here in a few weeks. Headed to Cabo on Friday

o Nelson Montana is a dame good guy with lots to add to this board.love having him around...he dont mean any ill will to any one thats for shore.he keeps people
on there toes and thinking around here.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Thanks for the input Nelson. It sounds insightful for sure. A few things. I don't know if I can score anavar. May not be able to...
Also, with the PCT, can you give me more of an accurate plan week by week? I second guess timing of each. Treat me like the retard I am (nahh, it's just if you re-read your post it's not exact). Thanks

Week by week? How many weels are you running the cycle.

Okay, real quick.

Unleashed throughout and afterward until PCT ends. (Actually you can stay on this).

POST CYCLE starting the last week of the cycle and continuing for one month.

HCG -- 500 iu's a day starting a week after last shot. Continue for one week. Take 1/2 mg of a-dex along with it. Keep in a-dex on hand JUST IN CASE you need it during the cycle but it's doubtful.

Take Myogenix along with HCG.

If you have bloat, the new supp "DEFINITION" will work great but it won;t be out until next month. Till then, dandelion and lots of water. Wear a sweat belt when training. But that's only if you have BP issues. Don;t worry about bloat. it goes away. For now, just get BIG.

Enjoy, and be careful.

 

[tshoot]

Unfortunately, much of the bodybuilding community has the attention span of a goldfish, and cant stand reading the lengthy scientific articles. That’s why, I just have to come out and say -- “this is the way it is”

-Pp

This is one of the most accurate statements I have ever heard (myself included in the A.D.D. goldfish reference).

I have to agree in theory with what Pp has said about the use of HCG throughout the cycle. I still don't know if I would be poking myself EoD with 150-250iu of HCG - too many extra sticks for me with all of the other shots. But, 500iu once a week during my cycle has helped me keep most of the testicular size I had pre-cycle - maybe down 10%. I still have to believe there is an easier way to keep your testes from shutting down during cycle without having to use HCG so frequently - something you can take orally but I haven't found the right protocol yet. Pp did submit an article to Meso on this but I don't have my secret spy decoder ring (made for a goldfish) to be able to decipher it into 5th grade english so I can understand it.

JW, your cycle looks fine to me. You're a relatively big guy and the dosages are very moderate compared to some. You're front loading the cycle - so that looks fine to me. I would probably run the Deca until the end.

I WOULD run some HCG throughout your cycle - at least 500iu once a week from about week 3 on until one week from the end. If you are up to doing it 4x a week @ 250iu like Pp said - might work even better. I would make sure you have something for the extra estrogen that HCG creates - like Arimidex/Aromasin and something for any Prolactin/Progesterone sides you might get from the Deca like Cabergoline/Letrozole. You might never need them but good to have on hand.

For PCT, I've run clomid/nolva for a PCT for 4 weeks after my cycle with decent results at these dosages.

Clomid 100mg/day (week 1) - 50mg/day (weeks 2-4)
Nolva 40mg/day (week 1) - 20mg/day (weeks 2-4)

This time around I am going to try Derma Sustain for 4 weeks w/ Clomid and Nolva for a backup if I need them.

Good luck, eat lots of clean calories, rest 8-10 hours a day and train heavy - but stay away from a lot of training under 4 reps - too hard on your joints long term IMHO.

 

[Johnny_Whoops]

Thank you tshoot and all you boys who added as well. What signs am I looking for/how will I know when to throw in a-dex/aromasin during the cycle? Is it only the onset of gyno I'm watching for or other symptoms? Also, what do I use during cycle to keep bloat down? Nelson suggested dandilion. Hey tshoot, about running the deca all the way through....I thought it should be cut off early so I can start PCT with a SERM with about 3 weeks time between last shot? Wouldn't I run into trouble starting PCT right after ending deca at week 10?

 

[Mac173]

Thank you tshoot and all you boys who added as well. What signs am I looking for/how will I know when to throw in a-dex/aromasin during the cycle? Is it only the onset of gyno I'm watching for or other symptoms? Also, what do I use during cycle to keep bloat down? Nelson suggested dandilion. Hey tshoot, about running the deca all the way through....I thought it should be cut off early so I can start PCT with a SERM with about 3 weeks time between last shot? Wouldn't I run into trouble starting PCT right after ending deca at week 10?

Look for water retention which will raise BP.
The adex is what you use on cycle to minimize the bloat.
And I would end the deca 2wks before the test, this will reduce potential sexual sides during PCT.

 

[tshoot]

Hey tshoot, about running the deca all the way through....I thought it should be cut off early so I can start PCT with a SERM with about 3 weeks time between last shot? Wouldn't I run into trouble starting PCT right after ending deca at week 10?

The steroid half-life of Test-E is about 10.5 days, Deca is about 15. You could drop the Deca a week early to have it coincide with time the Test-E is reaching it's half-life. Some people have had problems with Deca causing a lack of libido - I haven't really experienced that but I am sure it would not be fun.

After running cycles with no AIs and with AIs, I would rather keep gyno at bay than have to fight it once is starts. Also, if you are prone to high blood pressure, they help keep down the bloat which could also cause it to elevate. You could start on the low end of the AI dosing and then up the dosage if you get itchy/puffy nipples or small lumps forming under or around the areola.

Here is a quick listing of dosing for the AIs listed. Some will say to use more, some will say less, some will say to use none unless you need them - it is truly a personal thing of what works for you. But, at least have them on hand.


Arimidex - .25-1mg ED (can go up to 1mg ED if needed)
AIFM - 1-2 pumps a day of the spray (can go up to 4 if needed)
Aromasin - 20mg EoD or ED (Every other Day/ Every Day)

Cabergoline - .5mg E3D (Every Third Day) more for Deca related issues
Letrozole - .5mg - 2.5mg ED (This in my opinion is the strongest AI)

Do some more searching on the AIs. If you ask 10 people, you will get 10 different answers.

Remember, the most important thing is to have at least a couple of these on hand if you need them.