please help me with 5x5, whats the input ?

[choco]

hello,
i hope somebody can help me here with my questions on the madcows linear version of 5x5 !

1) the linear version should be the better version when trying the first time this program? which one (linear or advanced) has the better feedback here ?

2) madcow says that u should ramp up the weight to the top set of 5 like:
5x200
5x220
5x240
5x260
5x300 (300 is my 5rm weight)

wouldn`t it be better to do 1 or two warmupsets and then do the following:
5x300
5x300
5x300
5x300
5x300

????

whats the feedback at elitefitness ? what is the better way to do ?


By the way as backround information:
The last half year i was training classic hst style and now i want to try the 5x5 programm.

best greetings, thanx
choco

 

[ZGzaZ]

hello,
i hope somebody can help me here with my questions on the madcows linear version of 5x5 !

1) the linear version should be the better version when trying the first time this program? which one (linear or advanced) has the better feedback here ?

2) madcow says that u should ramp up the weight to the top set of 5 like:
5x200
5x220
5x240
5x260
5x300 (300 is my 5rm weight)

wouldn`t it be better to do 1 or two warmupsets and then do the following:
5x300
5x300
5x300
5x300
5x300

????

whats the feedback at elitefitness ? what is the better way to do ?


By the way as backround information:
The last half year i was training classic hst style and now i want to try the 5x5 programm.

best greetings, thanx
choco

You didn't read all of the text that was available talking about setting up the program.

"There are several reasons for this, you are warming up, getting a lot of practice and really groove the coordination of the lifts, and contributing to workload without raising it so high that fatigue overcomes you and you overtrain. If you do 315 for all 5 sets, workload is a lot higher and doing that a couple of times a week ensures that you won't last long on this program."

 

[choco]

thanx for the input !
(sorry man my english is not the best)
now i can remember the thing that you have postet. because i HAVE read it.

my input/opinion was that im actually doing one full body program 3-4 times per week and at the last weeks in my hst cycle it gets heavy too and there are no problems with fatiguing. but im only training 4-5 weeks with mit 5rm lifts at the end of an hst cycle.
so i thought there would not be a problem to do this with the 5x5 too (5x5 with same weight).
But the 5x5 cycle will last longer and i`m trying to beat my pr`s with 5x5 so your input is that i should go with the Linear version and with ramping up the weights ?


i thought that 5x5 with 5rm in all 5 sets would result in more hypertrophy than 5x5 with ramping up to my 5rm ? but this wouldn`t be so good for strength developement ? and recovery ?
should i see it in the long run like "lifting more rm weight will result in more body mass" ?

how is the feedback at this board for the advanced version of the program ? the linear would be better or not ?

greets

 

[Lifting N Tx]

Choco, with the linear (intermediate) 5x5 after 3-4 weeks you keep adding to your PRs week after week for as long as you can, with the top set at your new PR. The 5x5 routines like the "Madcow advanced" where you have 5 top sets at the same weight are dual factor.

They are only designed to do that level of workload for a few weeks. After that you drop volume a lot to recover from the higher volume, while continuing to add weight.

So doing 5 top sets at the same weight will likely be too much to keep up week after week if doing the intermediate version. I'm not an expert, just recently started a 5x5 myself and have been reading a lot.

Based on reading a lot, including things written by Glenn Pendlay, the best one is the simplest and most direct (intermediate) IF you can gain on it week by week. If you can't, I'd try the advanced. What is best for you is an individual matter and will likely change as your training level changes.

Good luck!

 

[choco]

ok makes sense !
think i will try it like you guys described and madcow has written in his text.
and then i see if i should/can make some adjustments.
last questions:
whats with failure, i think at the pr lifts it is not to avoid ? and that will be fine.
and i have a big problem because i cant do squats the next 3 months. there is no equipment available. its a situation to cry !! i think when i`m substituting the squats with leg presses that would be bullshit ?? so i shouldnt make a 5x5 routine before i cant squat ?

 

[Cynical Simian]

In addition to the complete program description (as already mentioned), read this.

 

[Protobuilder]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=507245

 

[ZGzaZ]

hold off on it until you can squat.

 

[Lifting N Tx]

It's hard to say what to do about the squat issue. It's certainly not the best to have to substitute an exercise in place of the one around which the 5x5 is mostly built.

The 5x5 style of progression can certainly be applied to other exercises if that's all that you can do, but I'd hate to see you try it and not get the results you wanted, then think it's the fault of the 5x5 training instead of because you were not using the best exercise.

Is it just a squat rack that is lacking? I used to use my bench supports as a squat rack before I got my power cage. Not the easiest thing, but it worked. Another alternative might be to clean a weight and do front squats, or jerk it and lower it behind you, but that's not very optimal. Some have done one-leg squats with dumbells.

Will you not have any free weights available at all for these 3 months?

 

[lesarin]

If you did all five sets with your max weight, you will crash very fast. Starting strength has you doing 3x5 with all 3 sets at max weight. And that is for beginners and considered a TON of workload.

 

[choco]

Is it just a squat rack that is lacking?

have a squat rack but without pod to hang in the long barbell
but i`ll bond 2 pods !

then i have all things what i need !

If you did all five sets with your max weight, you will crash very fast. Starting strength has you doing 3x5 with all 3 sets at max weight. And that is for beginners and considered a TON of workload.

yes with hst the last weeks im doing 3x5 with my 5rm and yes its taxing ! i cant imagine to do that 5x5 with my real 5 rm max !

now cant wait to start with the new training !