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Planning Training with Throwing

super_rice

New member
My track & field meet is on May 19-20 at York University.

the plan at the moment is to really ramp up the volume and then begin to taper starting at my 5x5 deloading week. The meet falls into the end of the 2nd week of my intensity phase, near where i should begin peaking in strength from the gains from volume phase.

my question is, is this plan of attack wise? should i deload with 2x per week for 2 weeks, then on the week of the competition lift once heavy then taper (throws included)?

i basically need help being in top strength for that meet, and i don't have much experience tapering.

thanks.
 
It sounds like scheduling will fit okay and put you at or pretty close to peak strength on competition day. To be honest, I'm not familiar with periodizing the throws in conjunction with the lifts. I could certainly make something that would work but there's not much sense in recreating the wheel from scratch when it's already been done a few million times and you could easily obtain far higher quality info. Have you checked out the Throwers Forum at www.fortifiediron.com, the training forums at www.charliefrancis.com, or ask someone at the Midwest Barbell board - Glenn's wife was a great thrower from what I recall so he should have a lot of info for you especially since he's familiar with the 5x5 (just make sure you list out any other conditioning work and your throwing workouts - every time I turn my head you are into a new sport so if you've taken up anything new you should add that that info too :)). Also, I believe d3track here was a thrower in college, he might be worth a PM.
 
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you wouldn't need to do much strength work in the unloading phase due to the delayed training effect kicking in - ie you could do it conjugate periodisation style. Although its more for advanced people, but since you loading anyway, it should work for you

you do a loading phase of strength and hypertrophy work, where you don't actually recover from session to session. You build up a lot of fatigue, whilst just practising sports technique, not really go at full intensity

then you unload, and just concentrate on speed/power/ and sports specific work. Then the delayed training effect of the strength/hypertrophy work kicks in as you recover from the fatigue in the first block, and your power and qualities rise to a greater height than at the start of the training cycle

this is what you call conjugate periodisation, ie "joining".
The after effects of each block spill over into the next allowing one to concentrate on one main thing at a time.


------------------

Concentrated Loading

It is approriate to use concentrated loading primarily for increasing the effectivenes of SPP, and for this purpose one can use loading of any primary emphasis. However, the concentration of specialised strength loading is of particular significance, not only for raising the athlete's physical fitness, but also for regulating the entire complex of loading over the annual cycle in all sports. The method of concentrated training loads was devised for preparing highly qualified athletes, with the loading being concentrated during specific stages of preparation. The main novelty of this method consists of exerting a concentrated training influence on the body with a high volume of unidirectional loading for a limited period of up to 2 months.

The appropriate duration of continuous training is 5-6 weeks and with concentrated loading the duration is 3-4 weeks, after which a recuperation period is necessary. The trained athlete can tolerate 3 such sequential blocks of loading, separated by short recuperation periods of 7-10 days. After this, a longer recuperation period of 2-3 weeks is necessary to facilitate stabilization.

The concentrated influence produces a brief fairly stable state of incomplete restoration which is associated with the persistent and relatively prolonged disturbance of homeostasis. This triggers extensive functional changes which are prerequisites for subsequent supercompensation and th eraising of the body to a higher level of special preparedness. An important condition for the use of concentrated loading is the relatively low intensity of the means, since the frequent use of these means already intensifies the training. The loading may be defined as concentrated if its volume in the month in which it is concentrated is 23-25% of the general annual volume.

Concentrated strength loading constitutes a relatively independent part or block of training to create a functional foundation for the subsequent enhancement of technical skill or those motor abilities which chiefly determine success in a given sport. The strength block should have a specific place inthe annual cycle, and consequently, have a beneficial effect on the sequence of loading and the organization of loading of other primary emphasis over time.

The effeciveness of concentrated strength loading has been confirmed by many coaches and researchers in a number of speed strength, cyclic and team sports. In particular, it has been established that this system is most appropriate for highly qualified athletes. Moreover, the use of concentrated strength loading enables the annual volume of strength loading to be reduced by 13-15% when compared with the conventional approach.

Problems with Concentrated Loading

Concentrated strength loading does have its deficiencies along with its obvious advantages. For instance, it leads to a brief but consistent decrease in speed-strength, which diminishes the athlete's special work capacity and complicates the task of improving technical skills and speed of movement.

The connection between the organisation and the volume of training loads, the changes in the force-time characteristics of the take off in jumping, the sport results and the explosive strength of women long jumpers was analyzed. It was found that in the months with the largest training volumes, there was a noticeable decrease in the special strength preparedness and sporting results. However, these same qualities rose above baseline during the subsequent months of reduced loading.

It is apparent that high volume strength loading creates adverse conditions for improving skill and speed. Considerable research has established that voluminous strength loading is detrimental to the technique of the weightlifting movements, javelin throwing, and punching speed in boxing. Rather than negating the value of concetrated loading, these findings stress the importance of knowing when this method may be appropriate to use. It is important to remember that if concentrated loading is used, then cybernetic periodisation or programming based on perceived ratings of effort and ratings of technique, as well as formal testing, can assist greatly in preventing overtraining.

Application

It must be emphasized that the block loading method should not be taken literally as being strictly limited to strength and technique training. Although there is a primary emphasis on a specific motor quality at different stages of training, this does not mean that technique work is totally omitted during the stage of concentrated loading. It is necessary to examine some features of technical preparation in order to determine the correct methodological approach.

One should work on improving technique daily, especially in speed strength types of sports, with "freshness" of the body being an important prerequisite for development of technique. Separate tasks of technical training which do not require maximum intensity of effort can be performed with the body in a lowered functional state, but the execution of other tasks under such conditions is unacceptable. For instance, the most important aspect of technical preparation during the competition stage is associated with executing the fundamental sports exercise at high intensity under conditions that are close to those encountered in competition. This type of work should be done when the body is at its highest functional level and should begin in the preparatory period, since it would be too late were it to commence in the competitive period.

Thus, one may recognise two successive stages of technical training in the preparatory period. During the first stage, one perfects those "components of technique" which need improvement and during the second, the emphasis is on executing the "sport exercise as a whole" with high intensity of effort.

Improvement in technical skill involves a multi year, continous learning process. The basis for this is the athletes constant striving to master the skill by continuously raising his motor abilities to a higher level of special physical preparation in successive cycles. Each cyle consists of the preliminary development of the motor qualities which the athlete needs to reproduce in the near future, accompanied by the immediate accommodation of technique to that level. Completeion of this process marks the point where a new cycle needs to begin, so that two stages may be recognised for inclusion into the idealised annual cycle of training. With the use of such a system, the athlete will not be unduly concerned about technique and his achievement will not stagnate.

During the stage of concentrated strength loading, one should primarily emphasize motor learning, mastering the more precise variants of technique, oiented to that specific level of speed strength preparedness which will be provided by the concentrated loading. Noting that one's functional state will be lowered during this stage, this task is carried out at low intensity. This will be done chiefly by means of special supplementary exercises, by imitation of the rhythmic pattern (but not the tempo) and its related individual elements, and by executin of the whole sports exercise, not at full strength, but under less demanding conditionings


The Long Term Delayed Training Effect

Considerable research has revealed a steady decrease in speed-strength preparedness during individual training stages of different lengths of 5-12 weeks. This decrease is the result of voluminous strength loading, after which speed strength returns to its initial level and significantly exceeds it. Since this phenomenon does not agree with the established ideas which stipulate a continuous rise in special physical preparedness as an essential condition for effective organisation of training, and since it is not accompanied by marked signs of overtraining, it has become a subject of special study.

The volume of the training load has a definite optimum level for each athlete, above or below which the body reacts with diminished response. There is a characteristically simple connection between the quantity of work and the dynamics of the athlete's fitness state.

An increase in volume of loading reaises the athletes work capacity, whereas a decrease lowers it. If the volume of loading is lower than the optimum level, work capacity decreases after an initial rise. If the volume of loading significantly exceeds this level, a steady decrease in work capacity occurs which, however, rises intensely during a carefully timed reduction in volume. This intense rise in work capacity is the phenomenon known as the "long term delayed training effect.

This phenomenon has been known for some time in practice, where it has been observed as an increase in performance in several sports after a decrease in the volume of the training load during the pre competition stage. However, this reflects only the external evidence of this type of adaptation, and the physiological conditions, mechanisms and characteristics of the LDTE until recently have not been a subject of much research.

The LDTE phenomenon of concentrated strength loading has also been observed in several cyclic sports, including middle distance running and ice skating. Thus, a steady increase in the strenght endurance of middle distance runners was verified, being reflected in increased stride length and improved results in standing long jumps following a block of concentrated strength loading.

Based on research and experience, the LDTE phenomenon may be characterised as follows:

1. Concentration of the volume of strength loading over a limited period exerts an extensive training influence on the body. Concentration of strength loading is the basic condition for the beginning of the LDTE.

2. The lower the speed-strength levels fall (within an optimal range) during the concnetration of strength loading stage, the higher they rise in the subsequent LDTE. Ie. A 10% reduction in speed-strength during the concentrated phase results in a 10% gain during the LDTE. Excessive concentration of strenght loading leads to a more significant drop in speed-strength and disruption of adaptation.

3. When concentrated strength loading is used to elicit a LDTE, the selected training should not be high intensity, as the high volume of loading already intensifies the training process, and one should not intensify it further with high intensity means.

4. The length of time for which the LDTE is displayed is determined by the volume and duration of the concentrated strength loading. In principle, the duration of the LDTE is approximately equal to the duration of the strength training phase. In other words, even in the near absence of continued strength loading after the initial loading phase, explosive strength will continue to rise and level out for a length of time approximating the length of the loading phase.

During the period of reduced strength loading and emergence of the LDTE it is relatively easy and painless for the body to change to intensive loading, but it will react negatively to extensive, or high volume work. This is manifested in the slowed or even decreased growth of speed strength. The volume of training work, therefore, should not be increased during the period of emergence of the LDTE. One should be especially cautious with strength loading during the competition period. At this time, intensive and short term strength work can be used in a small volume to tone the neuromuscular system during competition preparation, as well as to maintain the achieved level of strength. This is necessary if the length of the competition period exceeds the duration of the length of the concentrated phase (7-12 weeks).

A relatively prolonged stage of reduction in the volume of training is necessary to promote the LDTE. However, in practice, coahces usually aim to achieve large volumes of accumulated loading and do not always emphasize the role of restoration. Although they provide recuperation pauses within the microcycle and the so called overload microcycles to provide some rest, they still do not effectively utilise prolonged reduction of loading after large volumes. However, such methods are necessary, not only for restoration, but also for the development and optimal use of those physiological proceses which underlie adaptation. These processes occur relatively slowly and an extended period is necessary for their completion, which is far longer then the 1-2 weeks usually allocated for reduction of loading.

By overestimating the loading required for developing special preparedness, atletes frequently not only undertake an excessive volume of work, but also execute this volume when it is clearly contraindicated, namely when restoration is vital. Therefore, additional volumes of loading not only do not offer increased training benefits, but also become a major barrier to stimulating the restoration whic his sorely needed by the body.

A training scheme emphasizing speed may eliminate speed work until the beginning of the emergence of the LDTE. However, it is possible during the concentrated strength phase to perfect the athletes motor skill, which directly determines high speed of movement.

The concentrated strength loading cycle may occupy a fundamental place in the first half of a peaking scheme after the GPP. The magnitude of the delayed training effect may be enhanced further if the concentrated loading is followed by specialized work of moderate volume, which includes higher power or more explosive muscle contraction regimes, such as jumps and plyometrics.
 
i haven't yet read all that you provided me with, but that little summary you gave basically summed up what i want to do with 5x5, CCJ.

what i don't understand as of yet, however, is how the speed/power training will affect recovery.

plus, wouldn't the speed/power training microcycle also have a delayed training effect where the plyo/oly lift work would not come into play until further deloading from that training block occurs?

if this is so, then to do speed/power work the week before my comp might be too late. in this case, perhaps it's wise to drop the 5x5 style of deloading and intensity phase and use 2 of the 2.5 weeks i have to do a low volume, high intensity oly lifting and plyo microcycle, before tapering for 4-5 days before the competition?
 
speed/power work is always low volume, but high intensity, so the body will recover in contrast to the strength loading

You use the speed/power work for deloading, otherwise it won't work.
deloading by going heavier, but lower volume with strength work won't help you here.

that's exatcly how you do it, load up as you are now, and then deload with power/speed work, drop all strength work, you won't need it as the delayed training effect from the strnegth work in the loading phases will kick in.
Just amke sure you leave enough time to fully deload, it can take up to 4-6 weeks depending on how much you have loaded up
 
hmm... so do you mean to drop stuff likes squats altogether?

problem is, i'm not experienced enough with the oly lifts to be lifting any serious weight, so there's no effect there.
 
no, and you don't have to oly lifts

you do explosive squats, 2-3 reps, with 50-80% etc, not much volume, plyos, jumpsquats, sprints etc whatever you can handle without getting injured. Just be careful withd epth jumps since they can delay recovery

think speed. power, force delivery

and off course throwing which explosive and plyometric as well.
Good idea to alternate sessions of gym work and throw work
 
Monday:
Standing throws
Glide Technique

1hr later:
Snatch
Squat 8x2 @ 60% (increasing load 5% per week, decreasing volume: minus 1 set per week)
bench 8x2

Wednesday:
Standing throws
Full throws
Glide technique

1hr later:
Box jumps
Hill sprints

Friday
Snatch
Clean Pull
Squat 8x2 @ 60% (increasing load 5% per week, decreasing volume: minus 1 set per week)

Saturday and Sunday
Misc throws and plyo


man that's not a lot of stuff to do for 3 weeks.
 
your supposed to be recovering!

You have already done all your work in the loading phase.

As Glenn Pendlay would say - you should be training harder than you ever have during the loading phases, and training less than you should, when unloading. ie big contrast

People who train for sports get too addicted to the weight room which has no bearing on their goals, just a means to an end. I know I've been there myself :)
Remeber your training, not working out
 
It is tough to work on things like this...THIS close to a meet.

I trained the Field team at Murray State University for a year. Most of them set University records both in the gym and on the field. The big thing that we had to do was find their weaknesses. Heck...they just needed more strength in the gym and technique on the field. I could give them the outline to gain the strength in the gym as soon as I figured out their weaknesses:
1) Core work (real core work)
2) Explosive power on overheads and squats and OLY lift training
3) Lots of little accessory work

First we started off by them doing low volume on the core exercises such as overheads, box squats, front squats, good mornings, inclines, rows, etc... We increased the volume and intensity on the accessory work though quite a bit: inclines, rotators, tricep work, abs, hamstrings, etc...

After about 3 weeks like this we switched to more volume on the core lifts and less on the accessory lifts since they needed to really work on bulding the foundation and less on prehab and weaknesses.

One thing that I wanted them to focus on was having that "Anytime Strength". They did a lot of meets where they weren't for sure if they were going, if the University was going to send them or not, etc... They had to be ready ANYTIME. With this in mind...we really only unloaded on the last week of a contest...or maybe 10 days out. The last lifting session would be 4 days out and very very light

As a thrower...I am a little curious as to why you would choose a 5x5 routine over a routine that used Maximum Effort exercises. This seemed to work the best for us at the University...since it was both a mind and a body thing that simulated what they would be doing on the field.

B True
 
guys i'm a high school thrower, this is my first time ever throwing. in fact, i just learned glide a week ago on my own, and am trying to get the technique down.

i throw shot, 5.44kg. first time, i threw 12.50m with a shuffle.
 
i didn't exactly choose the 5x5, i was just in the 5x5 when i joined the team. yes, i'm that new.

b fold the truth said:
It is tough to work on things like this...THIS close to a meet.

I trained the Field team at Murray State University for a year. Most of them set University records both in the gym and on the field. The big thing that we had to do was find their weaknesses. Heck...they just needed more strength in the gym and technique on the field. I could give them the outline to gain the strength in the gym as soon as I figured out their weaknesses:
1) Core work (real core work)
2) Explosive power on overheads and squats and OLY lift training
3) Lots of little accessory work

First we started off by them doing low volume on the core exercises such as overheads, box squats, front squats, good mornings, inclines, rows, etc... We increased the volume and intensity on the accessory work though quite a bit: inclines, rotators, tricep work, abs, hamstrings, etc...

After about 3 weeks like this we switched to more volume on the core lifts and less on the accessory lifts since they needed to really work on bulding the foundation and less on prehab and weaknesses.

One thing that I wanted them to focus on was having that "Anytime Strength". They did a lot of meets where they weren't for sure if they were going, if the University was going to send them or not, etc... They had to be ready ANYTIME. With this in mind...we really only unloaded on the last week of a contest...or maybe 10 days out. The last lifting session would be 4 days out and very very light

As a thrower...I am a little curious as to why you would choose a 5x5 routine over a routine that used Maximum Effort exercises. This seemed to work the best for us at the University...since it was both a mind and a body thing that simulated what they would be doing on the field.

B True
 
Why not just continue your program as planned and take what comes at the meet. You'll already be decently deloading so it's not a 180 degree mismatch just not optimal. It's kind of a shame to derail yourself in a last minute effort to peak for what is a new and untrained sport. See how you like it and then determine if this is activity is important enough to you to schedule your future training around. If it is, you can then back into your training schedule much easier than adapting something suboptimal for the activity at the last minute.
 
basically, may 19-20 is the regional meet. you must qualify there to reach provincials. if i can throw 1-1.5m more, i qualify for provincials, having never thrown before.

however, madcow, you bring up a good point. perhaps i should continue 5x5 like it is, as it is pretty good deloading by weeks 2&3, and then do the plyo/oly lift only deloading before provincials (if i make it)?
 
I'd wager an arm that being this new your gains from technique and practice will outweigh any amount of conditioning and peaking you can do.
 
Madcow2 said:
I'd wager an arm that being this new your gains from technique and practice will outweigh any amount of conditioning and peaking you can do.

yes. at the moment, i throw less with a proper approach (glide) than i do standing.
 
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