perspective on open handed posing

[wilson6]

Anyone that knows me knows that I absolutely hate open hand posing in women's bodybuilding. I was looking at the Gene X pics of the women's USA heavyweights and I'm trying to figure out what these chicks are trying to achieve, or not achieve with open handed bicep and other poses?

If you're a 5' 5", 170 lb., ripped female bodybuilder, how is an open handed pose suppose to soften your image or somehow make you look more feminine? On top of looking ridiculous....

1) It ruins the pose by pulling your eyes away from the lines of the physique and toward the open hand.

2) If flattens/presses the forearm against the bicep and hides the shape of the bicep.

3) It doesn't allow for a full peak of the bicep because of the position of the forearm and wrist.

and..

4) often times flattens the lats because the elbows are back and down rather than slightly forward and up.

There are a few of the shots where the women really compromised their physiques by posing that way. Very frustrating to see this.

I can see this in fitness and figure, but not bodybuilding.

W6

 

[MS]

In my neck of the woods you'll get called up on it by the judges. That's to say that if you try an open-hand pose and you're in a physique class, the head judge will tell you to make a fist, and if you're in figure and make a fist, the head judge will tell you in no uncertain terms that you must have an open hand. So I guess the judges agree with you Wilson6 (and so do I, but that's no surprise). However the free posing (by definintion) is up to the individual to bring out the best in their physique so an open hand may be just fine in certain free-poses.

 

[NY Muscle]

They do that crap all the time, especially rear bicep pose....they think they are being graceful or something lol NOT

 

[w84me]

ooops ... check out my avatar ... please don't slam
I did the open hand pose for this one pic by a photographer -
but during prejudging I use a closed fist to get the most bang for the buck ... I agree, I can't find the same peak when squeezing open handed

 

[wilson6]

examples

For those that would like examples, check out genex9.com. You have to jump through some hoops to get to the contest photos, but he does some nice work and there are great pics of the USA posted.

In the heavyweight section:

Dianne Solomon and Heather Policky are good examples. See pics 14/88 and 16/88 for Solomon and 44/88 and 45/88 for Policky.

Solomon has considerable mass and solid arms, but is thick waisted, so she poses opened handed, forearms extended taking the emphasis off her arms and making them look smaller, reduces the lat width and doesn't suck her gut in. What sense does this make? The pose just looks half-ass.

Policky's legs are still out of proportion to her upper body, yet she poses the same way, open handed making the symmetry issue worse.

Don't these girls have anyone else critique their routines or work with them to pull the best out of their physiques? Shit, if you're going to build that amount of mass, you might as well display it in the most impressive manner. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Another good comparison side by side is pic 11/88 with Annie Riveiccio closed handed compared to another BB opened handed. The difference is obvious.

W6

 

[Sassy69]

I've had diff trainers tell me different things - the open hand is more feminine, etc. HOWEVER, my most recent trainer is female and also trains the girls who consistently come in in the top 3 of all the big shows. She advocates closed fist. Works for me. It seems that the "femininity" can come from the music & presentation of the posing routine. During the prejudge you want the best flex u can get.

 

[wilson6]

That's my second problem. A chick with a slightly smaller verison of a Dorian Yates physique trying to look cute dancing around on stage. I prefer a Flex Wheeler posing routine in a female with a solid muscular physique vs a routine where she dances around the stage trying to look cute (why does looking stupid seem to go hand in hand with looking cute and feminine?) and never hits a pose long enough to show off her hard earned muscle or symmetry.

Bodybuilding is bodybuilding, and that's why we have fitness and figure. I think Bill Dobbins commented on this some time ago as well.

W6

 

[fitbitch]

Not a big fan of the open hand thing...i agree that should be left for fitness and figure...bodybuilding is what it is...trying to jazz it up or whatever does not fit nor look right.

 

[NY Muscle]

A chick with a slightly smaller verison of a Dorian Yates physique trying to look cute dancing around on stage.
W6

lol i love it....great way to put it!

w84me - you know when i look at your avatar, all i focus on is your hands, its wierd...w6 is right, it does draw attention away from the intended muscle group(s) you are posing.

 

[w84me]

damn.... and you can't see my manicure!!!

I totally agree ... I'll look for a new avatar.

 

[w84me]

ok ... W6 ... even though I cut off my hands ... they are fisted in this pose

 

[NY Muscle]

ok ... W6 ... even though I cut off my hands ... they are fisted in this pose

oh great
now im focusing on the boob slip...

 

[w84me]

damn ... can't make anyone happy ...

 

[NY Muscle]

damn ... can't make anyone happy ...

wanna bet?

 

[thebod]

OMG you gotta be kidding

This is hilarious! Wilson I take it you were there? Do you really think you can tell anything by a few pictures, especially enough to be so judgemental? I didnt recall seeing any "Dorian Yate" female physiques there either.
Thanks for the insight..pro.

 

[wilson6]

"A chick with a slightly smaller verison of a Dorian Yates physique trying to look cute dancing around on stage."

No I wasn't there, and yes I can tell alot from pictures. I've shot thousands of publication quality photos at National and Pro events over the years so putting what I see in a photo into perspective to what was really on stage is not too difficult for me. If it is in the photo, it was on stage. Besides, there was nothing in that thread with ref to Dorian Yates that also referenced the USAs.

My only judgement here was the open handed pose on muscular women bodybuilders. Nothing more. The ref to the Dorian Yates physique was meant as a humorous metaphor.

I can tell you from attending a number of shows and working with a few of these women, that if some of them spent more time analyzing various basic poses, they'd realize how much more impressive they could be on stage.

W6

 

[Haz]

I have to admit that open hand does seem more feminine.

 

[BigEasy]

All I can say is Amen W6! PREACH IT!!!

The sooner one gets comfortable with what they are physically, the faster they can pose to maximise the good points and not try to be someone or something they are not.

IMO, it is always best to be yourself and say or do what you can in a positive manner. The best of what you have is always better than a weak compensation, concealment, or negative apologetic explaination of why you can't, or are not something different.

 

[thebod]

Wilson I was on that stage that night and the two woman you brought up are pretty awesome. Polickys upper body if lacking at all it is slight. She was one of the few with symmetry! No one is use to actually seeing legs on a fbb. I dont hear complaints about how top heavy 90% of them are. Thats ok. She did not pose with open hands all night, mainly in just her routine. Can you tell that from a picture? Bill Dobbins, one of the biggest critics of us loved Polickys posing and routine. Said shes an excellent poser and the only one on that stage with real pro potential.
Solomon was incredible and got screwed. 14th was it? If it wouldve been a bb competition she wouldve been in the top 5. I was in awe of her. Her down fall wasnt so much her posing as it was her suit. The cut and color can make a world of difference. You want to talk about some screwed up posing look at a few of the other girls. Most of them pose like men and that is the problem. So what if they are trying to be feminine, after all they are woman! Hell the NPC wants us all to have more of the "fitness girl" look anyways. These woman are more in touch and comfortable with their bodies more then 99% of the population.
I agree that with more posing prep and analysis some of them could be more impressive but I think you picked the wrong ones to pick on.
I have a tendency to get defensive over my peers. We dont get the credit we deserve and a lot of criticism we dont.

 

[wilson6]

"I have a tendency to get defensive over my peers."

Yup.

"We don't get the credit we deserve and a lot of criticism we don't."

Goes with the territory.

Listen Bod,

Your defensive posturing has blinded you to what this whole thread was about. The only reason I picked on those two competitors was because the photos told the story of what I was trying to describe. As I said in another thread, if it happened in the photo, it happened on stage. Now, if that shot only represented a small fraction of the routine, then that's great. For some, if not many women BBs, those issues represent most of their routine. In fact, some of it is down right shitty posing and a waste of a hard earned physique.

I have nothing against either girl and I think they are both solid heavyweights. In fact, I had one of the WPW pics of Solomon as a screen saver on my computer for a while because I liked her physique. So it is certainly nothing personal nor am I suggesting that their posing overall is poor based on a couple of photos. However, I still think Policky needs more upper body mass to balance her legs. She is certainly far more balanced now than even a year ago, but still needs a little more.

"So what if they are trying to be feminine, after all they are woman!"

This one confuses me. What exactly is "trying to be feminine"? Most of the women heavyweights have physiques that rival most men's bantams and lightweights, so does that mean if the men come out with bows in their hair, act goofy and dance around stage that they can compete in the women's heavys?

If they all posed as bodybuilders should pose (forget the goofy fitness cheerleader shit and dance routines that show little of their physique) then there'd be less confusion for the judges. Take the decision out of whether a posing routine is feminine or not, and that forces the judges to focus on the physique. What are the judges going to do if all the girls posed like bodybuilders, cancel the event? I don't think posing in bodybuilding should be gender specific. It should be based on presentation of the physique from a bodybuilding perspective, not fitness or figure.

Sometimes I think the women create more controversy by giving the judges too much to think about (i.e., what is feminine and what is not) and the physique becomes secondary.

When's the last time you heard the judges say they were looking for someone with a pretty face in a men's BB event?

and.....if you knew me Bod, you'd realize that I don't let personal feelings or friendships get in the way of my criticisms of physiques. There have been a few times I've been backstage at a women's pro event and made a couple of suggestions to some of the veterans while they are practicing in the mirror, and while their assholes tightened a bit when I first offered the suggestion, after they made the simple modification to the pose, their response was, "wow, I see what you mean, thanks". Simple stuff too. No one is perfect, although many in BB think they are.

Anyone else, am I making sense here?

W6

 

[thebod]

Ok.. Im not going to debate this on this board.
Do you even compete yourself?
And wheres your PM icon?

 

[wilson6]

No, but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

W6

 

[wilson6]

Bod,

Email me.

[email protected]

W6