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perpetually anabolic, long cycles article

serge

New member
original on anabolicextreme.com

Perpetually Anabolic
by Grendel


Taking Issue with the Idea of Androgen Receptor Down Regulation (Bryan Haycock) was an article that unfortunately slipped past a lot of people. The article was a moderately technical look at the reasons why androgen receptors do not down regulate and why receptors triggered by anabolic steroids do not shut down after lengthy steroid use. I will not rehash this article but I encourage everyone to take a moment to go back and look it over.

Steroids are inevitably linked with the notion of cycling. It has become part of the canon of bodybuilding that you go “on” for a certain amount of time followed by a rest period. But we all hear about the professionals who never go off their drug regime. Hmm. Well if you remember what you read in Bryan Haycock’s article you should start to see that maybe the pros are onto something.

I am now going to propose a yearlong cycle (actually it could be a lifetime cycle). This is not something that I think is appropriate for everyone and it’s certainly not a beginner’s notion. I don’t think you should decide you want to do steroids, run down and buy 100 bottles of T-200 and then never go off. In the beginning it’s fine to do little bursts, it gives you an idea of where you can go. But eventually it is time to consider being on steroids yearlong.


The Base

Certainly a yearlong cycle should be comprised of a base drug combination that is used steadily throughout. I believe that testosterone is ideal, used at between 500 and 1000 mg per week. Nandrolone (deca-durabolin) is also perfect for this sort of thing and I suggest dosages between 400-600 mg per week. If you have read my previous articles you probably have an idea of exactly what sort of starting dosages I would recommend. By the time you are considering a perpetual cycle you should be comfortable using higher dosages. I think a good base of drugs should not be more then 1000 mg combined. I think 500mg testosterone and 500mg Nandrolone would be perfect. This would be taken every week.

Since you are never taking time off the steroids it becomes important that part of your basic stack included items designed to protect you from the adverse side effects. The exact drugs needed depend on your experience (and by now you should know how you will respond).

Anti-estrogens should be used. I suggest clomiphene citrate (clomid) at 50 or 100 mg per day (at least 50 mg every other day). I think that the use of arimidex is ideal in this situation because it will protect you almost entirely from the estrogenic side effects of the steroids.

For those of you that want to keep your hair propecia (finasteride) is a good idea, but may not be the best combination with Nandrolone. If you are very worried about your hair the perfect drug base is a perpetual course of Nandrolone (500 mg per week). Remember that propecia stops the conversion of testosterone into DHT (which has a higher receptor affinity). However, propecia also stops the convesion of nadrolone to DHN, which isn't what we want during a cycle. If you're using deca alone, do not use propecia. If you're using testosterone and deca, definitely us it..

All right, so this is your basic drug regimen that should be taken every week for as long as you can. Your body will be in a very anabolic state. It will be very tempting for you to slack off on your diet and your training because progress will be that much easier. I advise you not to. The whole reason you stepped your program up this notch was to transcend your previous condition. Only through hard work will this happen.

Deviation from this baseline should be done in a gradual way. Obviously if this is more milligrams per week then you are using during your regular cycles you should not bump up drastically. This program is devised to be something to break through a jaded steroid-using plateau; it's not an introductory concept.



Modifications
First we need to divide up the year into periods of bulking, dieting, and maintaining. Traditionally bulking is done during the winter and cutting during the summer. However, this does not have to be the case. All right, lets put aside 6 months for bulking, 4 months for maintenance and another 2 months to get rid of extra body fat. You may be wondering why we are putting aside time for maintenance when the whole point of this article is to be constantly under the influence of anabolic agents. The answer is that the body cannot tolerate the constant strain of either dieting or bulking up. You need time off even with drugs. This is important physically but more so psychologically.

The periods of bulking should last around 3 months followed by 1 month of maintenance then another 3 months of bulking then 1 months of maintenance. Dieting is done at the end of these 10 months. Drugs can be added to this cycle in short bursts. Think of a base line level with additional drugs being thrown in as spikes or to achieve a specific goal.

The table below lists drugs that can be added to your base stack of drugs. Use Pattern refers to the phase you should use the drug in and also how long you can stay on the drug. Typical dosage gives you a recommended weekly (or daily in the case of orals) dosage level.



Drug
Use Pattern
Typical Dosage

Anadrol
Bulking; < 4 week
50 mg per day

Anavar
Cutting; < 6 weeks


Clenbuterol
Cutting; 2 weeks on/2 off
140 mcg per day

Cytomel
Cutting; <6 weeks
100 mcg

Dianabol
Bulking; <4 weeks
20-36 mg

Growth Hormone
all; for as long you can
Not less then 4 IUs per day.

Finaplex (Trenbolone)
Cutting; <6 weeks
75 mg every other day

Insulin
Bulking; <4 weeks
15-30 IUs per day

Primobolan
all; no time limit
400 mg per week (can be used in place of Nandrolone)

Winstrol
Cutting; <6 weeks
50 mg per day




If you have read my previous articles you might be wondering why I break drugs down into cutting cycles and bulking cycles. The bulking cycle drugs promote water-retention that helps a great deal with strength. During cutting, it’s nice to keep water retention to a minimum because you want to see your improvements. As with most of my articles you must use common sense and judgment.

A sample year round cycle might look like this one below. Months in bold are bulking months, months in italics are cutting and maintenance months are marked with asterisks.


Month
Drug

January Testosterone, Nandrolone, Anadrol

February
Testosterone, Nandrolone, insulin

March*
Testosterone, Nandrolone, growth hormone

April*
Testosterone, Nandrolone, growth hormone

May Testosterone, Nandrolone, Trenbolone Acetate, Cytomel, Clenbuterol

June Testosterone, Nandrolone, Trenbolone Acetate, Cytomel, Clenbuterol

July*
Testosterone, Nandrolone, growth hormone

August Testosterone, Nandrolone, insulin

September
Testosterone, Nandrolone, Anadrol

October
Testosterone, Nandrolone, insulin

November*
Testosterone, Nandrolone

December Testosterone, Nandrolone, primobolan



While I made a point to put maintenance months spaced fairly regularly throughout the year this does not have to be done. If you like, you can do 6 straight months of bulking followed by either a maintenance or cutting phase (or vice versa). I personally think that spacing the maintenance months out is a better ideal; it gives you more of rest. Besides who wants to be fat for 6 straight months? It might be nice to let some of the water retention slip away for a month or two between bulk phases.

Another observation is that this type of cycle is going to be expensive, but that’s one of the drawbacks of being perpetually anabolic. The best reason to cycle is simply to keep down the costs of the bodybuilding life-style.

This article is yet another installment in my anabolic series. All of these articles are works in progress. My goal is to codify a system of steroid use that is scientific and systematic but can be tailored to even a professional bodybuilder. This has not yet been done and in many ways it would be the holy grail of anabolic pharmacology. A crucial part of this series is leaving enough leeway for people to adapt. I need critical feedback on this series of articles (Scientifically Anabolic and Perpetually Anabolic). I can be reached at [email protected]. Until next time.
 
excellent

post man. After my first cycle I was torn. I was thinking of a 2 week on 4 week off thing, but eventually decided to go with a longer cycle(16-20 weeks) the reason being more experienced(and large dudes) have told me you give your body more of a chance to get used to your new size and strength intead of bursting up for 8-12 weeks than all of a sudden throwing the body into a hormonal frenzy just when it has put on so much size and strength.
I was told also HPTA will recover fine as long as you have your post cycle down. I know people are doing fine with 8-12 weekers, but I want to give my body a chance to adapt to the strength and mass, to change homeostasis.
As long as you can get your hormones back up and keep eating and training right, I see no reason that after long or extended cycles(where your body begins to get used to carrying alot of weight and strength) that you couldn't extend your natural limit 10-15lbs, yeah you might shrink from being 20,30,40 lbs above that but you will still be alot bigger at that bodyfat than if you never used.
I believe that longer cycles, if done properly, will give you better results in the long run. You have people on both sides of this topic, and both sides can make very good points. I'm just on the longer cycle side.
 
serge said:

Well if you remember what you read in Bryan Haycock’s article you should start to see that maybe the pros are onto something.

Of course they are on to something. However, I would believe that 75% of the people on EF dont expect to make a living off their body, and consider their well being to be more important than being as freaky as ronnie.

thederrickm
 
Re: excellent

me2dammit said:
post man. After my first cycle I was torn. I was thinking of a 2 week on 4 week off thing, but eventually decided to go with a longer cycle(16-20 weeks) the reason being more experienced(and large dudes) have told me you give your body more of a chance to get used to your new size and strength intead of bursting up for 8-12 weeks than all of a sudden throwing the body into a hormonal frenzy just when it has put on so much size and strength.
I was told also HPTA will recover fine as long as you have your post cycle down. I know people are doing fine with 8-12 weekers, but I want to give my body a chance to adapt to the strength and mass, to change homeostasis.
As long as you can get your hormones back up and keep eating and training right, I see no reason that after long or extended cycles(where your body begins to get used to carrying alot of weight and strength) that you couldn't extend your natural limit 10-15lbs, yeah you might shrink from being 20,30,40 lbs above that but you will still be alot bigger at that bodyfat than if you never used.
I believe that longer cycles, if done properly, will give you better results in the long run. You have people on both sides of this topic, and both sides can make very good points. I'm just on the longer cycle side.

i like longer cycles better because you really get a scense of how your body reacts to different androgens, from that you can learn how to twick you diet/traing/future drug regiments for best possible gains
 
great post serge, thanks bud. I have been considering extending my next cycle from 12 weeks to 16 weeks. I was looking to run schering primoteston for 16 weeks, boldenon for the first 12, and a T3 pyramid for the 1st 6 weeks.
 
serge and me2 I am right with you guys, I am on my first extended cycle(6months) and I am in month1 and up 10lb. on 600 mg week cyp. as a base w/.5 arimdex eod I am about to throw in some dbol for a month and also some eq at 400 a week for 4 months. imo this is the real way to put on some serious size and keep it, and yes I do depend on my body to make a living.
 
the_only_sepe said:
serge and me2 I am right with you guys, I am on my first extended cycle(6months) and I am in month1 and up 10lb. on 600 mg week cyp. as a base w/.5 arimdex eod I am about to throw in some dbol for a month and also some eq at 400 a week for 4 months. imo this is the real way to put on some serious size and keep it, and yes I do depend on my body to make a living.

how many shots per week of cyp?
 
looks like a nice cutting cycle , ive never used t3 so I cant comment on that , but the combo of primo and eq looks good, obviously you are trying to stay away from androgens.
 
Last edited:
Flaming Heterosexual said:
In what month do I sign up for a new liver?

As one of the few users who gets blood work done, I can tell you that my liver enzymes are always crazy elevated when I'm on ANYTHING.

FH

My Homepage with many USEFUL links & Lab Results ;)

one of my friends had to do his blood work recently, HE DOES NOT run ANY DRUGS, his liver enzymes were elevated, the doctor performing the test said it was natural responce in training athletes therefore liver values do not paint a complete picture other values must be considered such as CREATININE levels
 
Flaming Heterosexual said:


True, I get a SMAC 21 and all looks good when I'm clean.

I was talking about the difference in enzyme levels from clean to "on".

Does your friend drink? I have a buddy who trained clean and part of his college physical had a blood test. His levels were high as well. But he drank a 6 pack every few days.

FH

he drank ocasionally, but not during the time of his physical; although on some ocasions myself and this kid crawled to our appartment from the college bar, but that was like once every 4 or 5 months
 
This is a one of my favorite topics: Longer cycles being more effective at keeping LBM. I've always run 14-18 week cycles and post cycle recov is no different than a 8 wk cycle but my body seems to get used to the extra weight and fat loss. I'm 210 and about 10%bf and its my training is light and my diet is avg but my body comp is staying the same and I thinks its because its use to being like this now.

I now also agree with the idea of keeping bulking cycles leaner, what I mean is not trying to gain 30lbs and then doing a big cutting cycle, and so and so forth. Its becoming more apparent that my body likes gradual change so the difference in my bulking and cutting cycles is plus or minus 2K cals or so.

One more thing is staying active and in good cardiovascular shape during bulking cycles I think is absolutely essential to maintaining gains.
 
Elapid said:

I now also agree with the idea of keeping bulking cycles leaner, what I mean is not trying to gain 30lbs and then doing a big cutting cycle, and so and so forth. Its becoming more apparent that my body likes gradual change so the difference in my bulking and cutting cycles is plus or minus 2K cals or so.

One more thing is staying active and in good cardiovascular shape during bulking cycles I think is absolutely essential to maintaining gains.

I agree
 
caiza said:
could one stay on eq or primo for an extended period and not effect the hpta very much?

you will effect hpta regardless what drug you stay on, but once you stop taking it your hpta will recover
 
Themachine01 said:


I think your onto something now.

lol

look at Dorian Yates, he has been cranking all kinds of shit for many, many, many years, he came off, now hi is clean, is he as big as he was??? no, no, no; is he still fucking massive?? i would say being 250lb at 5'9 (not too sure about his hieght, somewhere around there) fairly lean, qualifies as pretty massive

Lou Ferigno has been cranking since the seventies, he came off, was still 250-260lb, now he is back up getting ready for the filming of Hulk
 
Themachine01 said:


whats your thoughts on this maxx?

LOL I haven't had time to read it yet. But I saw serge whining that he thought it was deleted when it was just buried so I figured I'd return the favor by bumping it since he's helped me in the past. ;) I'll comment later.
 
indefinite cycles

I am taking 250mgs of Sostenon weekly. I will try to follow your advice and stay on as long as possible. I have a few concerns. Is there a need to take anything else with this to counter side effects? I plan on having blood work done twice a year. Also, I do not want my sex drive adversely affected. Shouldn't staying on the test. take care of that? I remember that Deca lowered my sex drive.
 
I think using drugs like primo and eq may the ideal way to go if your looking for less side effects on these types of cycles as well. Maybe using 500-600mgs of EQ as the base then alternating between 500mgs of Test or Fina and an oral then switching to a drug like Primobolan to keep androgenicity low(er) is maybe a bit easier on the body. Then again it depend on how sensitive your body is to more androgenic drugs sides.

My next cycle will be in a couple of months after Im done complete with recov from last and it will be:
EQ 600mgs Weeks 1-12
Anapolon 25mgs/D Wk 1-4 (just b/c I haven't tried it)
Primoteston(my fav) 750mg Wk 12 -24
Fina 75mg EOD Wk 18-25
Generic Anastrozole 1mg 2 Days on 1 off Wk 10-Post Recovery

Cals will fluctuate from 1000 above maintainence to 1000 below depending on activity level-which will be almost the entire 20 week soccer season. Goals will be to lose fat and gain slight LBM gradually. Currently 212 10% bf. I may even switch the order of the 12 weeks depending on how intense my soccer training gets and how my body feel going into the cycle.
 
I didn't see anything about adding hcg to the mix to give your nuts a jump start part way through, seems like it would make sense to thror it in as well.
 
needsize said:
I didn't see anything about adding hcg to the mix to give your nuts a jump start part way through, seems like it would make sense to thror it in as well.

if you plan on running a cycle that will only last a few months then yes, by all mean add some hcg shots every 4 weeks or so
 
Elapid said:
I think using drugs like primo and eq may the ideal way to go if your looking for less side effects on these types of cycles as well. Maybe using 500-600mgs of EQ as the base then alternating between 500mgs of Test or Fina and an oral then switching to a drug like Primobolan to keep androgenicity low(er) is maybe a bit easier on the body. Then again it depend on how sensitive your body is to more androgenic drugs sides.


you can use eq as a base/bridge but whats the point??? you hpta will still be shut down, eq will not allow you to fully hold onto your gains since its not very androgenic, and eq is much more expensive then test..............BUT WILL WORK NONE THE LESS
 
serge said:


you can use eq as a base/bridge but whats the point??? you hpta will still be shut down, eq will not allow you to fully hold onto your gains since its not very androgenic, and eq is much more expensive then test..............BUT WILL WORK NONE THE LESS

I thought about EQ as a bridge, but if your nuts are shut down and you're not injecting any extra test, then good luck getting it up! It's my wifes job to come up with excuses for not having sex, not mine...
 
Serge your right-I was getting a bit off the subject perhaps-I meant using it as a base in lieu of Test in terms of limiting the harshness of side effects like hairloss, testicular shrinkage, acne, etc and this only from personal experience. BTW I've never seemed to lose any gains from EQ and the gains come a little slower than on test so maybe the net gain is less but "seems" more permanent. And wouldn't you agree in general, the less androgenic the less sides and less harshness on the body?

Yeah and the price (of EQ)is slightly greater which makes no sense to me-is it a harder drug to manufacture or since its made for horses is the price inflated?
 
Elapid said:
And wouldn't you agree in general, the less androgenic the less sides and less harshness on the body?


most definetly, but when eq is the only drug used in between cycles, or for maintanance purposes your sex drive will not be all the great
 
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