PCT What to use, and why?

[Voijn]

Hey guys
Ive wondered what PCT drugs that are good, ive found out that nolvadex not only eliminates estrogene, but also raises testosterone while on Nolva? So it can be used for boosting T levels back to normal and used for treating to high estrogene.

But what about a drug like Hcg, some use nolvadex while using HCG. The reason for this imo would be because it raises T levels so high that some of it might aromatise into estrogene "makeing estrogene side-effekts like gyno ect." So therefore using nolvadex while HCG not to get any estrogene side effeckts

But im quite scared of the needle, ive shot Primobolan 6times and still get the chill when doing it. I am just not readdy for the needle yet!

Question is, can Clomid be enough for PCT? ive read that it works for boosting the HTPA and also blocking some of the estrogene recptors makeing it hard for estrogene to bind. Not sure if it blockt the recptors or if it lowered estrogene it self.

Please help out

 

[JBEXT81]

I think it depends on the ester - if ur scared to pin then maybe AAS is not for u?? I think others may agree.

Also, what r ur stats??? - u may not be ready, i dont think anyone on here wants to contribute to someone hurting themselves!

Read the PCT Sticky at the top of the forum - It's a great read !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read this from the journal of endocrinolgy -- Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -- Coviello et al. 90 (5): 2595 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

 

[tical]

Clomid is certainly enough for PCT. Just make sure you use it for a long enough period of time, at least 12 weeks.

Clomid is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) which means it acts on selective estrogen receptors, essentially preventing estrogen from binding to receptors and "fooling" the body into thinking estrogen is low. In the presence of low estrogen, your pituitary gland will begin releasing the signaling hormones LH/FSH. LH acts on the cells in your testicles signaling them to begin producing testosterone.

Low dose Clomid (12.5mg per day) has been proven to raise LH/FSH levels to near supraphysiological levels (near or over the top of reference ranges). This is plenty of stimulation for PCT. More is overkill and potentially suppressive. In one male, 5 weeks of 12.5mg of Clomid raised LH levels from 8.9 -> 29.8 (range 1.5-9.3). This also raised his testosterone level from 670 -> 860 (range 250-1110).

Clomid is cheap, and effective.

Many top anti aging (HRT/TRT) doctors use LOW DOSE Clomid (SERM) therapy when attempting to restart natural testosterone production / HPTA function.

 

[Voijn]

Ive read that nolva is a better HPTA booster then Clomid, but using the wors HPTA booster may be wrong imo? As far as ive understood it aint really boosting the HPTA but when taking clomid/nolva/hcg it mimmics or just pops the HTPA up

Let say u are shutdown and got 0 htpa, using nolva will give you 100 fake hpta, this will give you the test you need to keep your gains that uve just gained after ure cycle. While using nolvadex and having the hpta running 100% ure own hpta is working while the fake hpta is doing the job "nolva" when stopping the nolva u may have ure own prodution up and running to 90

Ive always thougth that nolva was only a anti estrogene, but this seems promising.

Clomid is cheap for sure, but ive heard that like everybody gets sides

 

[stevesmi]

only your own body will tell you the best PCT.

that takes experience cycling. and using blood tests to gauge where you are at in your recovery.

every noob wants to know the secret to PCT, but its all guesswork. everyones body is different.

some guys need X PCT, some guys need Y PCT. some guys need X+Y PCT. some guys swear by clomid, others HATE IT.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Clomid is certainly enough for PCT. Just make sure you use it for a long enough period of time, at least 12 weeks.

Clomid is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) which means it acts on selective estrogen receptors, essentially preventing estrogen from binding to receptors and "fooling" the body into thinking estrogen is low. In the presence of low estrogen, your pituitary gland will begin releasing the signaling hormones LH/FSH. LH acts on the cells in your testicles signaling them to begin producing testosterone.

Low dose Clomid (12.5mg per day) has been proven to raise LH/FSH levels to near supraphysiological levels (near or over the top of reference ranges). This is plenty of stimulation for PCT. More is overkill and potentially suppressive. In one male, 5 weeks of 12.5mg of Clomid raised LH levels from 8.9 -> 29.8 (range 1.5-9.3). This also raised his testosterone level from 670 -> 860 (range 250-1110).

Clomid is cheap, and effective.

Many top anti aging (HRT/TRT) doctors use LOW DOSE Clomid (SERM) therapy when attempting to restart natural testosterone production / HPTA function.

Other than Clomid is cheap, I disagree with everything else.

 

[Deltoid_87]

I had clomid for pct but decided not to bother this time round and honestly i'm feeling great on just HCgenerate, Unleashed and Bridge with a little Adex and Dostinex. I remember my Nolva/clomid only pct - libido killer!! That was after Test/d-bol cycle. I ran Test/Dbol/Mast/Deca this cycle and i'm sweet.

 

[tical]

Other than Clomid is cheap, I disagree with everything else.

With all due respect, SERM therapy is tried and true. It might not be for everyone, but it *is* effective and there are plenty of published studies out there illustrating this. The first study below shows that 100% (all patients) responded to Clomid therapy.


Int J Impot Res. 2003 Jun;15(3):156-65.
Clomiphene increases free testosterone levels in men with both secondary hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction: who does and does not benefit?

Guay AT, Jacobson J, Perez JB, Hodge MB, Velasquez E.

Center for Sexual Function (Endocrinology), Peabody, Massachusetts 01960, USA. [email protected]
Abstract

Secondary hypogonadism is more common than primary gonadal failure and is seen in chronic and acute illnesses. Although testosterone has a role in erections, its importance in erectile dysfunction (ED) has been controversial. Hypogonadism produced by functional suppression of pituitary gonadotropins has been shown to correct with clomiphene citrate, but with a modest effect on sexual function. We wondered if longer treatment would produce improved results. A total of 178 men with secondary hypogonadism and ED received clomiphene citrate for 4 months. Sexual function improved in 75%, with no change in 25%, while significant increases in luteinizing hormone (P<0.001) and free testosterone (P<0.001) occurred in all patients. Multivariable analysis showed that responses decreased significantly with aging (P<0.05). Decreased responses also occurred in men with diabetes, hypertension, coronary artery disease, and multiple medication use. Since these conditions are more prevalent with aging, chronic disease may be a more important determinant of sexual dysfunction. Men with anxiety-related disorders responded better to normalization of testosterone. Assessment of androgen status should be accomplished in all men with ED. For those with lower than normal age-matched levels of testosterone treatment directed at normalizing testosterone with clomiphene citrate is a viable alternative to giving androgen supplements.

---

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Dec;80(12):3546-52.
Effect of raising endogenous testosterone levels in impotent men with secondary hypogonadism: double blind placebo-controlled trial with clomiphene citrate.
Guay AT, Bansal S, Heatley GJ.

Section of Endocrinology, Lahey Clinic, Burlington, Massachusetts 01805, USA.
Abstract
Secondary hypogonadism is not an infrequent abnormality in older patients presenting with the primary complaint of erectile dysfunction. Because of the role of testosterone in mediating sexual desire and erectile function in men, these patients are usually treated with exogenous testosterone, which, while elevating the circulating androgens, suppresses gonadotropins from the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. The response of this form of therapy, although extolled in the lay literature, has usually not been effective in restoring or even improving sexual function. This failure of response could be the result of suppression of gonadotropins or the lack of a cause and effect relationship between sexual function and circulating androgens in this group of patients. Further, because exogenous testosterone can potentially increase the risk of prostate disease, it is important to be sure of the benefit sought, i.e. an increase in sexual function. In an attempt to answer this question, we measured the hormone levels and studied the sexual function in 17 patients with erectile dysfunction who were found to have secondary hypogonadism. This double blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study consisted of treatment with clomiphene citrate and a placebo for 2 months each. Similar to our previous observations, LH, FSH, and total and free testosterone levels showed a significant elevation in response to clomiphene citrate over the response to placebo. However, sexual function, as monitored by questionnaires and nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity testing, did not improve except for some limited parameters in younger and healthier men. The results confirmed that there can be a functional secondary hypogonadism in men on an out-patient basis, but correlation of the hormonal status does not universally reverse the associated erectile dysfunction to normal, thus requiring closer scrutiny of claims of cause and effect relationships between hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction.

 

[tical]

I had clomid for pct but decided not to bother this time round and honestly i'm feeling great on just HCgenerate, Unleashed and Bridge with a little Adex and Dostinex. I remember my Nolva/clomid only pct - libido killer!! That was after Test/d-bol cycle. I ran Test/Dbol/Mast/Deca this cycle and i'm sweet.

Keep in mind that a lot of people are using SERMs for PCT incorrectly, taking 5-6 times the necessary amount daily. For example 50mg of clomid everyday is way too much. A more ideal dose would be starting at 12.5mg daily, tapering down to even less as the PCT progresses.

Stacking popular SERMs like Nolva and Clomid together with the idea that more is better is most likely the reason people experience side effects.

We can't treat PCT like a cycle of AAS and just throw everything at it. The HPTA has a delicate balance and low dose, single SERM therapy is proven (as illustrated in peer reviewed medical journals) to work.

 

[C.K.]

I'm using HCGenerate/Novadex-xt/Post Cycle/Unleashed

(alotta people hate on novadex-xt but they've obviously never tried it, it makes my nuts fuller, makes me lean and gives me the best morning wood ever)

Sex drive on the above stack is almost equal to running test for me...