PCT Opinions Please

[thebadguy54]

Hey Guys, I just finished up 10 weeks of Test E and I'm planning on doing the following for PCT:

Week 1-10 was 500mg Enth EW & 20mg Nolva ED.
Week 11-13 (now) - I'll continue 20mg Nolva ED.
Week 14 (3 Weeks after my last shot of Enth) - 5000 i.u. HCG & 100mg Clomid ED
Week 15 - 100 mg Clomid ED

I was considering adding another 5000 i.u. of HCG in week 15 and splitting it up in 3 shots. 2000 i.u. on Mon, 1500 on Wed and 1500 on Fri (for example).

My question is how does this look and do you guys think I need another 5000 i.u. of HCG in week 15.

Thanks!

 

[nydj66]

I would break up the first HCG shot into smaller dosage; 500IU/day for 10 days or at least 1,000IU EOD. Nolvadex is a better choice with HCG than clomid. Nolvadex will prevent gyno and leydig cell desensitization.

Once your done with the HCG, 3 weeks of 100mg/day clomid will finish up the PCT nicely.

 

[tin2]

Hey Guys, I just finished up 10 weeks of Test E and I'm planning on doing the following for PCT:

Week 1-10 was 500mg Enth EW & 20mg Nolva ED.
Week 11-13 (now) - I'll continue 20mg Nolva ED.
Week 14 (3 Weeks after my last shot of Enth) - 5000 i.u. HCG & 100mg Clomid ED
Week 15 - 100 mg Clomid ED

I was considering adding another 5000 i.u. of HCG in week 15 and splitting it up in 3 shots. 2000 i.u. on Mon, 1500 on Wed and 1500 on Fri (for example).

My question is how does this look and do you guys think I need another 5000 i.u. of HCG in week 15.

Thanks!

Your a little off bro .. Nolva should not be used throughout a cycle like that unless you had gyno, I bet you would have made better gains without it due to it blocking igf-1 in some cases.. You should start the HCG on the day of your last shot @ 500iu/day for 10 days along with 10-20mg/nolva, the HCG takes about 3 days to clear from your body and enanthate is 12.5 days so no need to wait 3 weeks for test E .. 3-4 days after your last HCG shot you can start taking clomid @ 50mg/day for 21-28 days. keep in mind the clomid will not work till the esters have clear the half life range (Including HCG). It might be better next round to use an anti-estorgen like aromasin, nolvadex only blocks estrogen and does have a rebound effect not to mention a 2 week half life which can be hard on your liver .. Honestly 50mg of clomid is just as effective as 100mg/day, and the sides you can get from clomid(depression, visual tracers) can be overwhelming to most.. good luck with everything

 

[Primordial Performance]

Nolvadex is a better choice with HCG than clomid. Nolvadex will prevent gyno and leydig cell desensitization.

Where did you get this information at?

-Pp

 

[tin2]

Anthoney Roberts

"Another factor involved is the induction of testicular aromatase, which raises estrogen levels, again causing inhibition. Unfortunately, yet another process, the downregulation of the Leydig Cell LH receptor itself, seems to also play a role in high dose HCG testicular desensitization. This is also done by HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) to testosterone (24). Nolvadex actually stops this blocking-action of HCG from taking place (25). Most likely, because of Nolvadex’s direct antiestrogenic effect and LH-upregulating effect on the Pituitary, suppression of gonadotropins via HCG is (25) almost totally stopped with concurrent administration of Nolvadex! So if we Use Nolvadex and we are only using HCG when we are low in gonadatropins. "

 

[tin2]

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

This is an interesting PCT with very good references.. check it out ..

 

[Papa Lion]

bro this pct (if you can call it that) is nowhere what you should be doing!! it's all over the board and no real direction!! the hcg should be between your last shot and pct along with proviron if you can, and you should begin your clomid and your nolva three weeks after your last shot!! here's a good read for you bro that wil clear up almost all if not all your pct q's check it out!!

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.aspx

 

[Primordial Performance]

Anthoney Roberts

"Another factor involved is the induction of testicular aromatase, which raises estrogen levels, again causing inhibition. Unfortunately, yet another process, the downregulation of the Leydig Cell LH receptor itself, seems to also play a role in high dose HCG testicular desensitization. This is also done by HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) to testosterone (24). Nolvadex actually stops this blocking-action of HCG from taking place (25). Most likely, because of Nolvadex’s direct antiestrogenic effect and LH-upregulating effect on the Pituitary, suppression of gonadotropins via HCG is (25) almost totally stopped with concurrent administration of Nolvadex! So if we Use Nolvadex and we are only using HCG when we are low in gonadatropins. "

What Anthony is saying there (I hope), is that nolvadex will limit the suppression on gonadotropin release by acting as an estrogen antagonist. – which is correct.

However, I am not aware of any action in which nolva can prevent leydig cell desensitization from HCG. (the original comment made in this thread)

-Pp

 

[Primordial Performance]

bro this pct (if you can call it that) is nowhere what you should be doing!! it's all over the board and no real direction!! the hcg should be between your last shot and pct along with proviron if you can, and you should begin your clomid and your nolva three weeks after your last shot!! here's a good read for you bro that wil clear up almost all if not all your pct q's check it out!!

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.aspx

That article is saying that HCG should be ran on the cycle, not after.

This is what Ive been preaching for years, yet many still incorrectly use hCG post cycle.

I will say this again – “the only time hCG should be used after a cycle is if someone forgot to use it during the cycle”

-Pp

 

[tin2]

What Anthony is saying there (I hope), is that nolvadex will limit the suppression on gonadotropin release by acting as an estrogen antagonist. – which is correct.

However, I am not aware of any action in which nolva can prevent leydig cell desensitization from HCG. (the original comment made in this thread)

-Pp

I thought this was the cause of downregulation on the leydig cell causing desensitization of the testicals.??
"This is also done by HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) to testosterone (24). " because it blocks this from happening , and that nolvadex solves this problem.. maybe i didnt read it rite.? I dunno.. Ill try and find other articles I have read on this and post for you.. It is interesting..

 

[nydj66]

Where did you get this information at?

-Pp

Here you go:

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/256/19/10012.pdf

 

[Primordial Performance]

Here you go:

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/256/19/10012.pdf

Nvdj66,

That study you posted is referring to tamoxifen preventing the late steroidogenic lesion at the 17a-hydroxylase, and 17,20-desmolase enzymes… this is past the point of pregnenolone synthesis and LH receptor down-regulation. My point is, tamoxifen will not “prevent leydig cell desensitization”, although it may prevent the degeneration of the steroidogenic enzyme required for final testostoerne synthesis.

-Pp

 

[thebadguy54]

bro this pct (if you can call it that) is nowhere what you should be doing!! it's all over the board and no real direction!! the hcg should be between your last shot and pct along with proviron if you can, and you should begin your clomid and your nolva three weeks after your last shot!! here's a good read for you bro that wil clear up almost all if not all your pct q's check it out!!

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.aspx

Thanks. I need to come up with a plan quickly. 4 days have already passed since I did my last shot.

 

[tin2]

Thanks. I need to come up with a plan quickly. 4 days have already passed since I did my last shot.

Jump on the HCG bro 10 days 500iu/day nolva 20mg/day them start clomid 3 days after ur last hcg injection 50mg/day 21-28 days .. very basic

 

[thebadguy54]

Jump on the HCG bro 10 days 500iu/day nolva 20mg/day them start clomid 3 days after ur last hcg injection 50mg/day 21-28 days .. very basic

How about HCG 1000iu EOD (until the 5000iu is used up / 10 days) then wait 3 days and start clomid at 50mg / day? I can't do HGC everyday (as you suggested) because of my work schedule. What do you think?

 

[Stryker1992]

How about HCG 1000iu EOD (until the 5000iu is used up / 10 days) then wait 3 days and start clomid at 50mg / day? I can't do HGC everyday (as you suggested) because of my work schedule. What do you think?

Your hcg doses are too high in my opinion. They need to be in smaller doses 1k eod is about 2x more than I recommend.

 

[needtogetaas]

Your hcg doses are too high in my opinion. They need to be in smaller doses 1k eod is about 2x more than I recommend.

ya I would go with 500iu's eod.

 

[thebadguy54]

ya I would go with 500iu's eod.

What if I spead it out in such a way that I use the entire 5000iu in the next 14 days... that works out to 500iu ED except 4 days (not in a row) I'll have to skip because of work. After the last shot of HCG I can wait 3 days and start clomid exacly 3 weeks after my last shot of Test E.

Safe? I'll mix up the HCG right now.

 

[needtogetaas]

What if I spead it out in such a way that I use the entire 5000iu in the next 14 days... that works out to 500iu ED except 4 days (not in a row) I'll have to skip because of work. After the last shot of HCG I can wait 3 days and start clomid exacly 3 weeks after my last shot of Test E.

Safe? I'll mix up the HCG right now.

if you ran your hcg threw the hole cycle at 500ius eod then you could just use dermacrin sustain for pct and be fine.

 

[thebadguy54]

if you ran your hcg threw the hole cycle at 500ius eod then you could just use dermacrin sustain for pct and be fine.

I can't run it during my cycle since my cycle is done. I did my 10th shot of Test E on April 9th. I will consider using HCG DURING my next cycle (if I decide to run another)... but I need to deicde what to do in this particular case. I was going to do the entire 5000iu at once! Now I'm reading more than 1000iu at once is crazy.

 

[Stryker1992]

I can't run it during my cycle since my cycle is done. I did my 10th shot of Test E on April 9th. I will consider using HCG DURING my next cycle (if I decide to run another)... but I need to deicde what to do in this particular case. I was going to do the entire 5000iu at once! Now I'm reading more than 1000iu at once is crazy.

5k at once! hahahaha.

No way bro. 250 iu's a day!

 

[thebadguy54]

5k at once! hahahaha.

No way bro. 250 iu's a day!

I know, I know... haha... an experienced juicer told me to do it that way... I didn't make it up, I swear! f'n newbies huh?

 

[Primordial Performance]

I know, I know... haha... an experienced juicer told me to do it that way... I didn't make it up, I swear! f'n newbies huh?

Your desensitized to the HCG now that you havnt recieved an LH signal in 10 weeks, so 5000iu aint that out of the question. Id do 1000iu EOD for 10 days.

-Pp

 

[jochensa]

what is the best over the counter route for pct?

 

[needtogetaas]

what is the best over the counter route for pct?

come on bro do we even have to ask.

 

[thebadguy54]

Your desensitized to the HCG now that you havnt recieved an LH signal in 10 weeks, so 5000iu aint that out of the question. Id do 1000iu EOD for 10 days.

-Pp

I told my doctor I was going to wait 3 weeks and do 5000iu at once and he didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with it at all.

So is my original plan messed up or not?

 

[Primordial Performance]

I told my doctor I was going to wait 3 weeks and do 5000iu at once and he didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with it at all.

So is my original plan messed up or not?

I just re-read you first post. Yes, it sounds like a fine plan.

Get some arimidex, aromasin or some kind of AI to prevent the estrogen buildup. Hell, even our Derma Sustain would work for that purpose.

-Pp