PCT lifting intensity?

[oxymoron]

Work out regime during post cycle therapy? I've read and tried different methods, but still unsure what works best. I saw on a gains keeper formula article to lift high reps during PCT. Buddies have told me to keep lifting heavy and like a lunatic through your PCT. I've also heard to take that time off from the weights and stick to the ancillaries. Can anyone point me in a clear direction.

 

[The Terminator]

Work out regime during post cycle therapy? I've read and tried different methods, but still unsure what works best. I saw on a gains keeper formula article to lift high reps during PCT. Buddies have told me to keep lifting heavy and like a lunatic through your PCT. I've also heard to take that time off from the weights and stick to the ancillaries. Can anyone point me in a clear direction.

I train pretty similar to the way I do while on...Except with less weight and less intensity...
Remeber, you WONT recover nearly as well during this time so more rest is better at that point...I also take an extra day of rest each week during this time...

 

[string_bean00]

After my lone cycle, I kept all of my strength gains for the most part.



For my PCT lifting, I kept the weight and intensity high, but dropped the total number of sets.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

Work out regime during post cycle therapy? I've read and tried different methods, but still unsure what works best. I saw on a gains keeper formula article to lift high reps during PCT. Buddies have told me to keep lifting heavy and like a lunatic through your PCT. I've also heard to take that time off from the weights and stick to the ancillaries. Can anyone point me in a clear direction.

I don't hold back at all. I'll try to lift the heaviest weight for 8-10 for ex. the same way while I was on. Yes the weight will be lighter, but don't let that tax you brain...it's normal. Time off from the weights is not a bad idea...especially if you've been really hittin it hard for 14 weeks or whatever. You'll hate not being able to go to the gym at first but when you get back in the gym you'll have a fire lit under your ass.

 

[gregory]

I like the DC routine for my PCT.

 

[shortstack]

same intensity, less time in the gym..... less sets and a lil more rest peroids.
but intensity stays high as i feel thats a big key to keep your muscle. imo

 

[oxymoron]

DC routine?

 

[SuperDawgy]

I usually go to a 5 day split instead of a 4 day and incorporate a few more drop sets instead of pyramids. It all depends on the cycle i'm coming off of. Last year i also tried switching my pairings up. Instead of hitting chest and triceps, i went to chest and biceps. Agonist/antagonist routines give the groups less stress per day and help you recover faster.

 

[mrplunkey]

I'm in the same spot right now... i'm finishing a 9-week, low-dose cycle (my first ever). Then taking 5 weeks off -- then starting my first "real" cycle (i.e. test cypo, deca, winny).

Here's my quandry -- I've got a mild front groin/abs pull and my left elbow has some nagging (but not debilitating) tendonitis (there is speculation that my 200 mg/week of test cypo made muscles stronger faster than connective tissue). When do I let those heal-up a little? I don't want to slack during my PCT and lose gains, but I don't want to enter my first "real" AAS cycle all beaten-up either.

Ideas?

 

[SuperDawgy]

I'm in the same spot right now... i'm finishing a 9-week, low-dose cycle (my first ever). Then taking 5 weeks off -- then starting my first "real" cycle (i.e. test cypo, deca, winny).

Here's my quandry -- I've got a mild front groin/abs pull and my left elbow has some nagging (but not debilitating) tendonitis (there is speculation that my 200 mg/week of test cypo made muscles stronger faster than connective tissue). When do I let those heal-up a little? I don't want to slack during my PCT and lose gains, but I don't want to enter my first "real" AAS cycle all beaten-up either.

Ideas?

Work around the injuries. It's easy to do with a little creativity. I'm guessing here, but your elbow issue is probably the result of doing alot of heavy tricep pressdowns and or heavy closegrips. Do some lighter overhead db extensions and bench dips. What movements aggravate the issues? Stay away from them. And i seriously doubt that 200mgs of cyp made your muscles outgrow your connective tissues that fast.

 

[oxymoron]

I'm in the same spot right now... i'm finishing a 9-week, low-dose cycle (my first ever). Then taking 5 weeks off -- then starting my first "real" cycle (i.e. test cypo, deca, winny).

Here's my quandry -- I've got a mild front groin/abs pull and my left elbow has some nagging (but not debilitating) tendonitis (there is speculation that my 200 mg/week of test cypo made muscles stronger faster than connective tissue). When do I let those heal-up a little? I don't want to slack during my PCT and lose gains, but I don't want to enter my first "real" AAS cycle all beaten-up either.

Ideas?

Mr. Plunkey, 5 weeks isn't much of a break dude. I would give it at least 8 weeks. Does the abdominal pull bug you during bench or rows? If not you can probably get around it. I've had water on the knee for 10 years and done 3 cycles over the last year, and I just don't over do it. And I stay away from those injury prone exercises like squats and just double up on my leg presses. You should be fine, but I would still give yourself a bigger break.

 

[ATLmuscles]

When coming off of a cycle, it is very tempting to go even crazier in the gym to try to maintain all of your gains, as you might feel that you must train even harder when clean. This, of course, is a mistake. I generally reduce training volume by about 25% when off and fight that urge to do an "extra" set or exercise of this or that. I find that the 8-10 rep range works well for me when clean, but I still vary the rep ranges week-to-week, doing fewer pyraminds and fewer set-expansions, like drop sets.

Everone's body is different, so what works for me or soemeone else may not work for you. The key is to listen to your body! Feeling absolutely worn out during your workout? Then you've done enough. Still feeling sore when it's time to train a bodypart again? Maybe you need more rest. I fight the urge to overtrain everytime I'm clean, but I remind myself that when clean it is much easier to overrtrain and it is better to err on the side of undertraining than overtraining. Good luck.

 

[Joe Stenson]

Last cycle was my best job of keeping gains. I went from 4-5 workouts while "on", to 2 workouts/week during PCT, lifting just as heavy as I did while "on". I also dropped cardio entirely. So, for me, I think the keys are greatly reducing volume and keeping strength levels up.

 

[gregory]

Last cycle was my best job of keeping gains. I went from 4-5 workouts while "on", to 2 workouts/week during PCT, lifting just as heavy as I did while "on". I also dropped cardio entirely. So, for me, I think the keys are greatly reducing volume and keeping strength levels up.

Same here, That's why i like to switch to a DC routine after a cycle. I go from 4 days at the gym, down to 3 and basically do a low volume HIT style training. This works so well that according to my body composition tests done with fat calipers five times and then averaged, showed that since my last cycle stopped, i gained an average of 2 lbs of muscle in a month. Given a 2-3 month break between cycles i found myself heading into the next cycle with 6 lb lead. And all it took was always doing a once kick ass, make you puke, work set per bodypart. Afterwards you have to switch to a more traditional routine, but it's all good because by then it's time for another cycle and more volume.

When off cycle you have to use the most advanced and effective methods used by NATURAL HARDGAINERS. They have a tendency to not gain easily and loose muscle quick. SO, any routine that works for them will work better in a person after a cycle with a depressed hpta and bordering on overtraining. That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

 

[biggeek]

Same here, That's why i like to switch to a DC routine after a cycle. I go from 4 days at the gym, down to 3 and basically do a low volume HIT style training. This works so well that according to my body composition tests done with fat calipers five times and then averaged, showed that since my last cycle stopped, i gained an average of 2 lbs of muscle in a month. Given a 2-3 month break between cycles i found myself heading into the next cycle with 6 lb lead. And all it took was always doing a once kick ass, make you puke, work set per bodypart. Afterwards you have to switch to a more traditional routine, but it's all good because by then it's time for another cycle and more volume.

When off cycle you have to use the most advanced and effective methods used by NATURAL HARDGAINERS. They have a tendency to not gain easily and loose muscle quick. SO, any routine that works for them will work better in a person after a cycle with a depressed hpta and bordering on overtraining. That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

I'm there with you 110% man.. what works for natural lifters.. which is usually insanse lifting.. and supplementing.. throw all that into someone who is on cycle.. and holy shit.. talk about some serious strength.. recovery.. and size.. that's the only way i do it..

During PCT I train just about like I did while on.. 1-2 bodyparts per workout.. and lift heavy.. MAX-OT style.. i love it.. nothing puts the size on me like the MAX-OT training methods.. anyway.. i also supplement seriously.. which i ususally do anyway.. but i'm much more concious of it during PCT.. like high doses of vitamin c and e to reduce free radicals and cortisol after workouts.. along with NAC for the same reason.. use some glutamine to prevent some muscle wasting.. enhance immunity.. prevent over training.. etc.. use creatine to help keep my lifts strong so that I don't loose too much when off.. a very potent multi-vitamin morning and night.. and all my EFA's from an EFA oil (that tastes like complete shit).. ha ha..

PCT is more important than being on.. you could gain muscle by picking your fat ass up off the couch while on.. and grow by eating anything.. but once you go off.. you gotta be serious to keep all that mass or atleast as much as you can.. and then continue to gain from there till your next cycle.. i'm in PCT right now.. still up 20lbs.. but only my first week of PCT.. have to see how it goes.. goodluck everyone

 

[mrplunkey]

And i seriously doubt that 200mgs of cyp made your muscles outgrow your connective tissues that fast.

I completely agree... this 200 mg/week of cyp was really just a "starter cycle" to get me used to AAS. My next cycle will probably be 300 cyp/week, 200 deca/week and some Winstrol (dosing TBD).

Thanks,

 

[SuperDawgy]

I completely agree... this 200 mg/week of cyp was really just a "starter cycle" to get me used to AAS. My next cycle will probably be 300 cyp/week, 200 deca/week and some Winstrol (dosing TBD).

Thanks,

Use EQ in place of the deca for a second cycle. I'd go 500mg cyp and 300-400mg on the EQ. I think you'll be pleased.

 

[carlsky]

You don't want to ligt nearly asa hard as you did while you were on cause your body can't recover nearly as good. High reps and low sets is good for maintaining. I lifted heavy after a test and d-bol cycle and I lost size and strength.

 

[SuperDawgy]

You don't want to ligt nearly asa hard as you did while you were on cause your body can't recover nearly as good. High reps and low sets is good for maintaining. I lifted heavy after a test and d-bol cycle and I lost size and strength.

How was your diet after the cycle?

 

[Joe Stenson]

You don't want to ligt nearly asa hard as you did while you were on cause your body can't recover nearly as good. High reps and low sets is good for maintaining. I lifted heavy after a test and d-bol cycle and I lost size and strength.

Wow, this advice is terrible. Keeping strength is probably THE most important thing after a cycle. If you go from squatting 405 down to 315 once you finish a cycle, you think your legs are going to keep their mass?

Low sets is right, but if you're lifting low or medium reps on cycle, why would you switch to high reps post-cycle? You're just asking for huge losses in size.

 

[biggeek]

Wow, this advice is terrible. Keeping strength is probably THE most important thing after a cycle. If you go from squatting 405 down to 315 once you finish a cycle, you think your legs are going to keep their mass?

Low sets is right, but if you're lifting low or medium reps on cycle, why would you switch to high reps post-cycle? You're just asking for huge losses in size.

No doubt man.. solid advice.. it doesn't make sense to switch it up just because your off.. yeah.. take more time off and be more active in your recovery.. but don't drop weights.. then your asking to lose everything..

 

[carlsky]

whatever guys. I kept only dropped like 20 pounds on my bench when I switched to high reps. It is less taxing on you body and it allows your body to recovery easier. You can keep strength as long as you lift. Simple as that. I lost my appetite cause I didn't do pct on my first cycle, my source told me I didn't need it cause I was going to lose all my gains anyways, asshole! I still kept lots of strength but lost almost everything I gained.

 

[Joe Stenson]

whatever guys. I kept only dropped like 20 pounds on my bench when I switched to high reps. It is less taxing on you body and it allows your body to recovery easier. You can keep strength as long as you lift. Simple as that. I lost my appetite cause I didn't do pct on my first cycle, my source told me I didn't need it cause I was going to lose all my gains anyways, asshole! I still kept lots of strength but lost almost everything I gained.

I'm not going to call you a liar because I'm sure the above did work for you. However, some of the things you are saying are misleading, or just plain wrong.

First, maybe high reps IS easier on your body, but so what? If you've listened to everyone else in this thread, then you've already drastically reduced your volume post-cycle, so recovery shouldn't be an issue.

Second, you won't "keep strength as long as you lift". You'll keep strength as long as you lift heavy...Conversely, if you're used to lifting heavy with low reps, you will have to drop the weight SIGNIFICANTLY to be able to do high reps. Strength is specific, it doesn't carry over from one kind of lifting to another.

I'm not trying to pick on you here man, I just disagree with a lot of what you're saying.

 

[carlsky]

I see, well I know power lifters that start out using 12 reps then work their weigh up to lower reps. Lets say I can do 385 for 7 right? I can still do 12 reps with 355 so I am still as strong, just not using the same rep range. I don't know, strength isn't just low reps, that's all I have to say.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I see, well I know power lifters that start out using 12 reps then work their weigh up to lower reps. Lets say I can do 385 for 7 right? I can still do 12 reps with 355 so I am still as strong, just not using the same rep range. I don't know, strength isn't just low reps, that's all I have to say.

I agree that strength isn't just about low reps, but if you go from training in one rep range all the time to a different rep range, your relative "strength" will be quite a bit higher for the range you are used to training in.

 

[carlsky]

true, but the program my buddies use is when they get off their cycles, they start back at 12 reps, the next week they do 11 reps and so on till they get back to sets of 4. I mean these guys are benching 550-600 pounds. One of them hasn't even toughed juice and this is what he does a lot of the time.

 

[oxymoron]

Benching 600 without gear? That would have to be some kind of freak of nature. Benching 600 with heavy usage of sauce would be some kind of feat in itself.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I didn't read all the replies, but someone probably said this already, if so...sorry.

After a cycle you gotta keep the intensity up. Drop the volume down dramatically if you need to, because you obviously won't be recovering at the same rate.

It's been shown time and time again that intensity is all you need in order to maintain muscle (as well as many other physiological variables which are changed by regular exercise). Volume and frequency can be dropped, but as long as intensity is maintained, gains will also be maintained.

I'd hit the gym 2-3 days a week do high intensity, compound exercises...don't worry about isolation exercises, just hit the heavy lifts hard.

 

[carlsky]

these guys weigh 300+ and hav been lifting for years. Ok , lets get this straight. When you are shut down and doing pct, you have no test in your system!!! You are recovering from the use with clomid and whatever and therefore you need to take it very easy on your training. If you don't have test, you can't build, maintain it. I was told by many bodybuilders and powerlifters this was dramatic in keeping your gains. I know the truth and it works for me. Try what you like I geuss.

 

[Joe Stenson]

these guys weigh 300+ and hav been lifting for years. Ok , lets get this straight. When you are shut down and doing pct, you have no test in your system!!! You are recovering from the use with clomid and whatever and therefore you need to take it very easy on your training. If you don't have test, you can't build, maintain it. I was told by many bodybuilders and powerlifters this was dramatic in keeping your gains. I know the truth and it works for me. Try what you like I geuss.

If you're not stressing the muscle in the same manner post-cycle as you were on cycle what makes you think that muscle will want to stay the same size? It won't...and that's where mass is lost. You don't have to lift as often or for as long, but you have to lift just as hard.

 

[gregory]

I didn't read all the replies, but someone probably said this already, if so...sorry.

After a cycle you gotta keep the intensity up. Drop the volume down dramatically if you need to, because you obviously won't be recovering at the same rate.

It's been shown time and time again that intensity is all you need in order to maintain muscle (as well as many other physiological variables which are changed by regular exercise). Volume and frequency can be dropped, but as long as intensity is maintained, gains will also be maintained.

I'd hit the gym 2-3 days a week do high intensity, compound exercises...don't worry about isolation exercises, just hit the heavy lifts hard.

Thank you sir, this is exactly what i've been trying to say here. I use the DC routine, which is a high Intensity (HIT) Style of training while off. It works great and the reduced volume keeps the strenght up and even progressing.

 

[carlsky]

There is NO WAY your body can recover when on pct when doing intense excercises. It is all in the science, if your test is almost non-existent, how are you going to recover from intense excercise??? Common sense here guys.

 

[biggeek]

There is NO WAY your body can recover when on pct when doing intense excercises. It is all in the science, if your test is almost non-existent, how are you going to recover from intense excercise??? Common sense here guys.

Common sense has nothing to do with bodybuilding.. bodybuilding is a very fine science.. understanding how the body works in almost everyway to make it perform better and better is probably one of the hardest things to ever achieve.. but in any case.. your body can recover anytime.. TEST is NOT the only way your body recovers.. it helps.. yes.. but your body can recover in other ways as well.. your body will not be nearly as effective at recovery in the absence of test.. but it can still happen.. glucose will still feed the muscles after a workout.. protein synthesis will still occur and granted you are using a protein supp.. will be greatly enhanced.. and your body will slowly begin piecing itself back together after you've torn it all to hell.. and with the help of smart supplementation.. your body can recover suprisingly well in the absence of test or in low test environments.. but get it straight man.. amount of test does not equal amount of recovery.. it helps it.. it's not the only way.. i mean come on man.. you wanna turn this into common sense.. then ok.. we are talking about the human body here.. it has survived thousands of years.. in times of extreme famine.. and disease.. and has found ways to cope.. mechanisms to change itself to fit it's surroundings.. ways to fight off viruses and diseases.. do you REALLY think the body could not recover after a workout in the absence of testosterone?? ok then..

 

[Joe Stenson]

Nice post biggeek.

carlsky, there is "NO WAY your body can recover when on pct when doing intense exercises" AT THE SAME FREQUENCY AS WHILE ON CYCLE...this is why you drastically reduce volume post-cycle. Do what works for you, but as you can see, no one else agrees so don't try to make it sound like what you're doing is "common sense".

 

[SuperDawgy]

There is NO WAY your body can recover when on pct when doing intense excercises. It is all in the science, if your test is almost non-existent, how are you going to recover from intense excercise??? Common sense here guys.

How do women recover if this is true? Just some food for thought bro.

 

[biggeek]

How do women recover if this is true? Just some food for thought bro.

VERY good point dawg.. even though women do have test.. just only in SMALL amounts.. and they recover just fine.. but comparing men and women in terms of muscle building potential and ability.. is like comparing a ford with a ferrari.. the male body was designed with many different features in place to promote the added size and strength that women's bodies weren't naturally meant to hold.. just another example of the amazing human body.. ha ha

 

[carlsky]

when you come off steroids, your test levels are lower than a girls. When you take testosterone, you boost your protein synthesis 50 times! What do you mean it helps??? It has everything to do with your body. This is why if you don't do your pct, you lose your muscle! Test is also anti-catabolic, take it out then there will be nothing to stop you from losing muscle. Whatever, test has everything to do with your gains. Girls don't get big unless they have a lot of it also. This is why men are bigger than girls, they have a lot more testosterone in their bodies. My doctor also told me this when I was coming off my test and d-bol cycle, he said that I should lift very light and low sets because my body will have very little test to make me recover. I would believe a doctor of you guys I'm sorry.lol. I geuss if you get away with it then it really doesn't matter what the answert is. More power to you if you succeed this way.

 

[biggeek]

when you come off steroids, your test levels are lower than a girls. When you take testosterone, you boost your protein synthesis 50 times! What do you mean it helps??? It has everything to do with your body. This is why if you don't do your pct, you lose your muscle! Test is also anti-catabolic, take it out then there will be nothing to stop you from losing muscle. Whatever, test has everything to do with your gains. Girls don't get big unless they have a lot of it also. This is why men are bigger than girls, they have a lot more testosterone in their bodies. My doctor also told me this when I was coming off my test and d-bol cycle, he said that I should lift very light and low sets because my body will have very little test to make me recover. I would believe a doctor of you guys I'm sorry.lol. I geuss if you get away with it then it really doesn't matter what the answert is. More power to you if you succeed this way.

Agreed.. the bottom line of this whole discussion is.. do what works for you.. for the majority of us.. lowering volume is all we need to do.. not switching to low weights.. high reps.. i personally do not believe in EVER going to low weight high reps.. it doesn't stimulate the muscle like heavy lifting does.. and if you don't stimulate it.. it won't grow.. but anyway.. in regards to the doctor thing.. hate to be the one to tell you this.. but doctors are not ALWAYS right.. if they have specific degrees in sports med... and exercise physiology..etc.. maybe.. but a family practice doctor knows what was in books like 5-10 years ago.. ha ha.. i've been to many a doctor in my life that has steered me in the wrong direction with very simple problems.. they were misinformed or stuck into a thought and unwilling to think outside the box.. very typical of doctors unfortuantly..

Ok.. now as too the testosterone subject again.. i'm not knocking what your saying man.. test is vital to muscle growth and recovery.. but it is NOT the only substance in the human body that regulates growth and recovery.. ever heard of growth horomone.. insulin.. IGF-1?? they all contribute without the aid of test.. and yes test is anti-catabolic.. but there are tons of substances out there that are anti-catabolic.. try vitamin c and e for example.. like i said.. in the absence of test.. smart supplementing can help maintain nearly all your gains.. and aid the body during the times of low to nil test production.. test is not a wonder drug.. if it was so great.. how come we all can't just take it.. sit on our asses.. post to this message board.. and get huge.. i know people that take it and never train and are fat and bloated.. lol.. it's sad honestly.. but on a side note.. what about tren.. deca.. winny.. primo.. these HIGHLY touted substances are NOT test.. and do not convert to test in any way.. they are substances that on their own can create an anabolic and androgenic environment in the body without the aid of test.. some of them will slightly increase test.. some will greatly increase test.. and some not at all.. and they still can pack on the muscle.. so in these cases where test is not even a drug used.. and test is the only reason we gain or lose muscle.. then why do PCT after a deca or tren cycle??.. i mean.. it's not test.. so recovery should be fine..

If i'm not mistaken.. you posted in another thread on here that your 19.. and doing roids.. now i'm not one to bash someone doing that.. i was uneducated and did it at an early age as well.. i should have waited.. but i believe you need to do some more research.. find a new doctor.. and be open to new ideas and possiblities.. if nothing else.. try new things and see what REALLY works for you.. for all you know lifting heavy during PCT could work even better for you.. but no offense man.. how experienced at PCT can you really be.. i mean.. your 19... ?

Good discussion guys

 

[carlsky]

I agree on some points. Actually ALL steroids are derived from testosterone. The chemical is manipulated from a testosterone molecule to have a different effect. I am only 19 but it is so hard for me to put on mass. I naturally weigh 190-195 and 7-8% bf. I am not an expert, I just know that without test it is hard to recover and build.

 

[SuperDawgy]

I agree on some points. Actually ALL steroids are derived from testosterone. The chemical is manipulated from a testosterone molecule to have a different effect. I am only 19 but it is so hard for me to put on mass. I naturally weigh 190-195 and 7-8% bf. I am not an expert, I just know that without test it is hard to recover and build.

Of course it's hard, but not impossible. Losing strength in the absence of test falls under the "use it or lose it" category. If you don't lift with the same relative intensity that you used during your cycle, you lose strength at a faster rate. Skeletal muscle is very adaptable and will find a way to deal with the reduction of test by utilizing other methods of recovery. I've been doing this for the better part of 15 years and have seen recovery go both ways, but as a general rule, a massive loss of strength and size after the cycle has ended can be basically attributed to a diminished effort in the gym and a reduction in caloric intake...not to mention poor PCT.

 

[carlsky]

so If I am on a test and tren cycle and I hit up some hcg and nolva the right way, you think I could keep most of my strength and mass if I eat tons and everything??? The 25 pounds I did gain is solid so I think It should be easer to keep it than with a d-bol with something else cycle right? I have a feeling my strength will be with me but I have never done a pct before so I am skepticle that my muscle will stay with me. I look so good and shaped, I don't want to loose it!!!

 

[lightweightt25]

Wow, this advice is terrible. Keeping strength is probably THE most important thing after a cycle. If you go from squatting 405 down to 315 once you finish a cycle, you think your legs are going to keep their mass?

Low sets is right, but if you're lifting low or medium reps on cycle, why would you switch to high reps post-cycle? You're just asking for huge losses in size.

So you mean pretty much lift the same weight and do the same amt. of reps but just cut down the amt. of sets for that mucle group?