Overusing THT for gains and may have plateaued

[Choicethird]

I am 39
175
6'1"

Reason for TRT I had testicular cancer in 2003 and chemotherapy right after and it effected my levels to about 230.

First time on testosterone cypionate, and have always been on the skinny side so decided to use it higher for the anabolic effects and get some muscle out of this treatment. I started at 300mg every 10 days an slowly moved up to 450 every week. Been on for 11 weeks now. I started at a slim 154 and have gained steady to 176 was my highest. And I can see it in the mirror, it's great.

I am wondering if the talk about hitting your genetic potential, could this be what is happening. But I though testosterone was a good way to pass your genetic potential.

I have been at 175 for about 4 weeks now and feel like the gains had stopped. I eat clean and train 4-5 times a week. And my bf% is around 10.

Let me know what any of you think about the reason for the plateau. Or is this the reason why most cycle 10 - 12 weeks?

Any answers or questions are welcome.
Thank you

 

[Kbordner]

Add a little something to the Test C. Deca at 400wk or D-Bol at 50ed. That should jump start things. Fuck genetic potential. We have hormones!

 

[Choicethird]

Yes, I thought it was my training. Maybe not enough, or not heavy enough. I usually rep to failure less than 10 reps, with about 3-4 sets of each. I keep my carbs pretty low for about 5 days then have one day for heavy carbs, but in no means am I doing atkins or anything. I eat veggies, chicken, turkey, some fruits, about 6 times a day with protein bars in between, as well as about 3 50g protein shakes throughout the day. Take all the omegas, use the Animal Pak vitamins, and Glutamine/creatine/taurine supplementation.

I know the testosterone works for sure, especially within those first 9 weeks, but damn. Straight line across the board when it comes to gains. I know I am missing something here, and It could be more intake of food for sure. I don't have access to Deca or anything to stack to the testosterone. That is what the doctor gave me and I feel lucky for that! But I have entered a great new world of feeling great, and making me more than I have been even since I was in my 20's.

So another question for you, since this is going to be an ongoing therapy for me, when I go off or stop my full cycle, I will be dropping down to only 200mg every 2 weeks, like originally prescribed. Stay there for a few months, then I will maintain that until I get a surplus again of more Test C and I will then hit it hard again with 500mg a week. Have you heard of this kind of cycle where someone doesn't completely go off the cycle but drops low enough to make up for the low test scores to begin with, and then do another cycle later?

Just wondering, and again thanks for the comments much appreciated guys.

 

[Choicethird]

To shorten the question I suppose, since I am no longer seeing gains. If I were to stop the higher dosage of 400mg this next week, and go down to my actual perscribed dosage of 200mg every 2 weeks. Then stay at that level for about 8 weeks, and then go back up to 450mg every week, do you think that would be considered a new cycle, even though I have still been pinning 200mg every 2 weeks, for my normal testosterone maintenance or THT. I was wondering if that would then kick start everything and I would then start seeing gains again.

Thanks,

 

[Tiger76]

Its called blast cruise and a lot of trt people do it

Sent from my SCH-I400 using EliteFitness

 

[Soulthief]

What is your calorie count per day? Have you stopped growing in strength also or just body weight?

 

[Choicethird]

Oh ok, I figured there were people out there that did the blast and cruise. Now does that work well, as well as a normal cycle would? Would I expect gains next time like I did this time the first 5-6 weeks?

As for calories, I was vigilant about counting them a while back. But I usually eat almost the same thing everyday, except the occasional sat, sun. I don't drink nor smoke... I take in a great deal of protein a day mostly by shakes and bars. But my calories are probably around 2500 and almost all clean, no breads pastas .... But I may have a misconception about the calories vs protein. I thought if you get enough protein for your muscles to recover, calories aren't always as big of an issue... Can you enlighten me on your thoughts of caloric intake. I have read a great deal about this but have came tithe conclusion that excess calories can turn to fat if not used. So if I took in 3000 calories and 230g of protein how do the calories help with muscle building? I really hope this isn't that stupid of a question. Just had a bit of that confusion over the years.

I feel like size is stable strength seems to be there but stabilizing as well. But I do have energy while training.
My weight is the same, I have a withings scale measures somewhat bf% and weight so bf% is the same and weight fluctuates up 2 down 2lbs ever few days bf% the same. So I figure mass is not growing.

Thanks again for listening.

 

[callmejay]

I have read a great deal about this but have came tithe conclusion that excess calories can turn to fat if not used. So if I took in 3000 calories and 230g of protein how do the calories help with muscle building?

You have gained 20lbs and eat the same thing every day. The 2500 calories you were eating to get you those 20 lbs is now the number of calories you need to eat to maintain that weight - aka maintenance calories.

To gain mass you need to increase calories and increase protein. 3000 calories and 300g of protein should help you put on some lbs. Calories help with muscle building because calories = energy and your body needs energy to make muscle from the protein. What you're feeding it now is enough to maintain your current weight. You're not giving your body anything to work with.

Yes, you can put on fat by not using calories. If you're trying to bulk you should expect to put on a little bit of fat. If you're concerned about gaining too much fat add more cardio to your routine.

I think most members would suggest looking at your diet before adding more to your cycle. Without proper diet it won't matter what you add to the cycle and based on what you've shared I don't think adding more test or stacking another aas is necessary at this point.

 

[Soulthief]

^^ You couldn't pay for better advice! Also sounds like you get a lot of your protein from bars and shakes. Start taking in more real food protein vs. packaged.

 

[oxymoron]

Choice,
Hop up to the search field drop down at the top and put "blast cruise" in their man. This is a big site and plenty of info. You'll find all types of threads on blast & cruise dosages, cycles, durations, what happens if you come off, etc.

 

[Choicethird]

Well yeah I do get a lot of protein from shakes and bars, but I also have eggs, and a great deal of turkey and chicken for either lunch or dinner, and 2nd, 4th meals throughout the day. But I would say yeah, the big dosages of protein is from the shakes, with low carbs, and maybe 200 cals per serving.

So when I do take in extra calories, they should be clean calories, not just pizza, and pastas correct. I think that is where I back away and say no, because I usually try to eat closer to a low carb diet than anything else. So, more calories huh? I wonder why the first 5-6 weeks I gained around 20 with the same amount I ate including protein before the testosterone cypionate was introduced.

Thanks for the support you guys, I am already enjoying this site, and think there is a great deal of experience and knowledge here I can benefit from.

 

[Choicethird]

Thanks Oxymoron, I will check the Blast & Cruise out right now. Hope it will answer some of the questions, although you guys have already done a great job with that. Do you have experience with the blast & cruise method at all? Just wondering?

Thanks

 

[callmejay]

Well yeah I do get a lot of protein from shakes and bars, but I also have eggs, and a great deal of turkey and chicken for either lunch or dinner, and 2nd, 4th meals throughout the day. But I would say yeah, the big dosages of protein is from the shakes, with low carbs, and maybe 200 cals per serving.

So when I do take in extra calories, they should be clean calories, not just pizza, and pastas correct. I think that is where I back away and say no, because I usually try to eat closer to a low carb diet than anything else. So, more calories huh? I wonder why the first 5-6 weeks I gained around 20 with the same amount I ate including protein before the testosterone cypionate was introduced.

Thanks for the support you guys, I am already enjoying this site, and think there is a great deal of experience and knowledge here I can benefit from.

You gained 20lbs in the first 6 weeks of 400mgs test cyp without increasing your calories at all?

Have you noticed a lot of bloating? It usually takes 4 weeks or so to start seeing results from cyp. So if you ballooned 20lbs in the first 6 weeks of your cyp cycle I am thinking a lot of it is water weight.

 

[overburdened]

Yes, I thought it was my training. Maybe not enough, or not heavy enough. I usually rep to failure less than 10 reps, with about 3-4 sets of each. I keep my carbs pretty low for about 5 days then have one day for heavy carbs, but in no means am I doing atkins or anything. I eat veggies, chicken, turkey, some fruits, about 6 times a day with protein bars in between, as well as about 3 50g protein shakes throughout the day. Take all the omegas, use the Animal Pak vitamins, and Glutamine/creatine/taurine supplementation.

I know the testosterone works for sure, especially within those first 9 weeks, but damn. Straight line across the board when it comes to gains. I know I am missing something here, and It could be more intake of food for sure. I don't have access to Deca or anything to stack to the testosterone. That is what the doctor gave me and I feel lucky for that! But I have entered a great new world of feeling great, and making me more than I have been even since I was in my 20's.

So another question for you, since this is going to be an ongoing therapy for me, when I go off or stop my full cycle, I will be dropping down to only 200mg every 2 weeks, like originally prescribed. Stay there for a few months, then I will maintain that until I get a surplus again of more Test C and I will then hit it hard again with 500mg a week. Have you heard of this kind of cycle where someone doesn't completely go off the cycle but drops low enough to make up for the low test scores to begin with, and then do another cycle later?

Just wondering, and again thanks for the comments much appreciated guys.

If you want to gain weight, you need to eat to gain weight... you are eating like you are trying to diet/lose weight... that's why you aren't gaining... all the juice in the world can't make up for lack of correct nutrition!

 

[Choicethird]

To tell you the truth, I don't seem bloated at all. I feel pretty firm. Is that unlikely to gain 20 on testosterone cypionate at that low of a dose? I even started at 300mg at 10 days, then every 10 days moved up to about 350, then finally 400 a week, then 450 a week toward week 8-9. I was at 154... Pretty slim at 6'1" I was doing a great deal of jogging cardio, and some working out. But then I started to really hit the weights about a month before I started Testosterone c. So it was likely my body just loved that stuff and really plumped me up a bit. My waist has gone in about an inch, and my bf dropped about 2% and weight up 20lbs. So I hope alot wasn't water weight that would suck. But I see the bulk I have never seen on me before. I had worked out for years and years. I was in really good shape before my testicular cancer back in 2003, but this has made me surpass those results from back then even. For the first time I feel like I am not in the skinny group, but in the somewhat built group of men. But I have stalled... so the calories should either go way UP. Or I should cruise at this point and blast in a few months... does that sound like a good solution, because I am on about week 12.

So back to the question, I did increase protein intake 2 fold, Was taking so much protein and eating a great deal more turkey and chicken as well as eggs. So I assume the calories may have gone up slightly. But again this was my first time on any testosterone as well. So maybe beginner gains also? I think I should post some pics and get some feedback, although many of you will put me to shame as for my physique.

Again, thanks.

 

[oxymoron]

Thanks Oxymoron, I will check the Blast & Cruise out right now. Hope it will answer some of the questions, although you guys have already done a great job with that. Do you have experience with the blast & cruise method at all? Just wondering?

Thanks

Nah bro lol sorry. I'm 38 but i've been recovering pretty well since i started down this road many yrs ago. Although I when i'm looking into something new I use the pee out of the search and find more than I can possible read about the subject. There's a ton of guys on here that blast and cruise so u'll get some great help here! Good luck

 

[Choicethird]

I was just thinking, before dropping back down to my prescribed dose, should I give this a try.
One more week at 500mg, eat like a beast and work out a great deal more than before, and see if this is what it could be... my lower doses of 400-350 might not be working their full potential, and my calories could be too low. So I could try to test a 500mg week and up everything.

Stupid idea? Or does it not really work this way? Reason I bring it up is that I noticed the most gains when I hit the 500mg a week mark. Now that I am lower I have plateaued. Ideas?

 

[TravFlex91]

I was just thinking, before dropping back down to my prescribed dose, should I give this a try.
One more week at 500mg, eat like a beast and work out a great deal more than before, and see if this is what it could be... my lower doses of 400-350 might not be working their full potential, and my calories could be too low. So I could try to test a 500mg week and up everything.

Stupid idea? Or does it not really work this way? Reason I bring it up is that I noticed the most gains when I hit the 500mg a week mark. Now that I am lower I have plateaued. Ideas?

You didn't plateau because of your lowered dose.. I highly doubt it has to do with your gear at all. You plateaud because you didn't accommodate your new gains. Improve diet and training intensity. Not your dosage.

 

[oxymoron]

Likely b/c of what trav and Jay are saying. Id try eating based on ur new gains before upping the dosage.


Sent using the elitefitness app.

 

[Choicethird]

Great! So I will start to eat more. Although I do eat about 6 -7 smaller meals a day, consisting of some type of protein and veggies or fruit. Looks like I just need to eat even more per meal. I think the way I have always learned was eat 6 meals a day that are consistent with the above and you can feed your muscles what they need every few hours.

Now it looks like I have to double or atleast up the meals per day to get more growth/strength.

It is a bit weird that at the beginning I was only pinning about 350mg every 9-10 days and I was seeing growth and strength increase.
Then I upped it to 400mg a week to see if I could get even more i did at first week but then the week after is when my weight started to slowly level off, and gains slowed.

Have any of you plateaued like this before on a cycle around 400-450mg a week?
And was this (low food intake ) the reason if so?

Thanks everyone, I'm glad I came here to get insight.

 

[Choicethird]

Ok guys pinned 350, been upping calories and intensity. How many extra calories should I take in to break the maintenance calories I have been taking in. An extra 200? 300? And one more question, from what kind of foods do you suggest they come from.

Thanks always! Hope I'm not dragging this thread on to long.

 

[TravFlex91]

Ok guys pinned 350, been upping calories and intensity. How many extra calories should I take in to break the maintenance calories I have been taking in. An extra 200? 300? And one more question, from what kind of foods do you suggest they come from.

Thanks always! Hope I'm not dragging this thread on to long.

A 300 calorie surplus is fuxk all.
When I try to pack on more I go around 1000 above maintenance.

 

[Choicethird]

Yep, It's like I knew that I had to take in more calories, but thought protein was more important. My first post on here asking these specific questions. "Why have my gains plateaued on TRT", (not THT... my my mistake.)

Well I took everyones advice, upped the calories, first only about 300 on the 27th. Then slowly packed in an extra 500 cals on from the 28th. I wasn't sure how high I should go, so this weekend I just chomped everything, didn't get an exact count but over 700 atleast on Sat and another 7-800 Sunday. Monday I was a bit uneasy with the amounts I was eating, so I posted above should I be intaking 200 or 300? and as you see travflex91 said 1000 is what he strives for.

Long story.....long. I gained an extra 3.5lbs and stayed steady on bf%, well it actually dropped .5% on my withings scale since this post. So less than a week I broke that plateau. I hope this can be a lesson for someone somewhere that may have misunderstood as I did. Wow, thank you to all. I could continue to update everyone but that would probably require another topic. So from July 3rd first pin I was 154, now I hit 180 with what the withings scale says 8-9%bf. But I am sure its a bit higher.

Thank you all, I am going to stay with this board and I give everyone who helped me big ups! Thank you, and Much Respect.