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OTC anti-estrogens
- Thread starter McLovin79
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The prohormone ones are. Supps like POST CYCLE and Sustain and increase the effectiveness of anti aromatases so you can use less. For mild cycles, HRT or all around e management they're fine alone. AG makes chemical recreations of anti e drugs -- not intended for human use.
bigpimpin25
Banned
i have taken novadex-xt by Gaspari nutrition and it worked for me. def. not bunk by any means .
bigpimpin25 said:
How can you be sure it worked? How do you what would have happened had you taken nothing? Did you have blood drawn pre and post?
Drugs, herbs and nutrients have been tested for effectiveness. Prohormones are not. All claims are from the company that makes them.
Ralph_Wiggum
New member
bigpimpin25 said:
I've heard many others vouch for the same results. The company even had studies conducted on subjects using the supplement to confirm effectiveness. I believe you can find them on the gaspari nutrition website.
Ralph_Wiggum said:
Now there's a surprise.
Ralph_Wiggum
New member
Nelson Montana said:
Here's the link:
http://gasparinutrition.com/clinical-trial.html
They provide contact information for one of the University studies. You are free to dispute the studies in question instead of just saying "they are bunk".
A
ALIN
Guest
McLovin79 said:
if you compare the prices your better off with the real thing thats most likely 95% more effective anyway
bigpimpin25
Banned
you can't argue when there are clinical trials to prove that products like novadex xt work and work well
CremasterBlaster
New member
Actually, prescription AIs and SERMs have a far better track record than any OTC/supp that you could bring to the table as they have had clinical trials dating in some cases over 20 years, as they were originally introduced to suppress estrogen production in females with breast cancer.....plus exemestane and letro especially have some unique testosterone raising qualities.....my two cents anyway
Ralph_Wiggum
New member
CremasterBlaster said:
I'm not saying the prescription AI's aren't the best, but, I was saying that I wouldn't be so quick to say the OTC hormone based ones are "bunk".
IMO, if you can get your hands on the prescrpition stuff, go for it. Some people just want to stay legal. It isn't an issue for me at this point b/c I don't have to worry about needing an AI. I am not juicing, and have never juiced yet.
ekbenzo said:
Several, actually.
Nelson that is Bullshit and you know it !!! You again are putting down another product to plug your own.
I have also used gaspari's Novedex with great results. Formadrol is another great OTC anti-e. Right now I just started Inhibit-e Anti-e which is a 146 ATD compound.
I have also used gaspari's Novedex with great results. Formadrol is another great OTC anti-e. Right now I just started Inhibit-e Anti-e which is a 146 ATD compound.
Nelson Montana said:
muscleup said:
Not true. I answered the original post to the best of my belief. I've advocated using the ingredients in my products long before they were even on the market so please don't confuse me with some others who simply "sell" whatever they purchase in bulk. I designed my products with a specific purpose in mind and based on real world results. Most other companies come up with something, then hire some "independent study group" to give them the answers they want.
I'd rather someone use real drugs than prohormones and I don't make a dime off of that advice.
If the Gaspari stuff worked for you, great. But the research is not peer reviewed nor unbiased. That's all I'm saying. And no one knows the sides effects of these products but since they are hormonal they impose a certain risk.
I am unfamiliar with Formadrol but I see it's been discountinued so I'd guess it didn't work all that great.
Really...How is this any different than what you do ? In both cases it's two companies plugging two diffeent products. Correct ?
I'm a lifer as far as HRT is concerned and I was getting a hint of gyno. I like to stay legal so I tried novedex to see if it would make the small mass go down and yes it did.
In all honesty it shocked me that it worked so well. Now I'm a third party here... I own no stock in ANY company...So what I am telling the members is based off real life experience. Not the fact that I'm pushing a product, or my preconcieved ideas on a particular compound.
I have been around long enough to know when something is or is not working for me...and This product worked great for me. Nelson I value your opinions and I love the fact that you are passionate about your products. However we must keep an open mind to ALL supps IMO...Herbal,PH, or Pharm grade. They ALL have thier place.
I'm a lifer as far as HRT is concerned and I was getting a hint of gyno. I like to stay legal so I tried novedex to see if it would make the small mass go down and yes it did.
In all honesty it shocked me that it worked so well. Now I'm a third party here... I own no stock in ANY company...So what I am telling the members is based off real life experience. Not the fact that I'm pushing a product, or my preconcieved ideas on a particular compound.
I have been around long enough to know when something is or is not working for me...and This product worked great for me. Nelson I value your opinions and I love the fact that you are passionate about your products. However we must keep an open mind to ALL supps IMO...Herbal,PH, or Pharm grade. They ALL have thier place.
Nelson Montana said:
Last edited:
Formadrol has not been discountinued at present time....It's just been harder to get. As far as the PH vs "Real Drugs" debate....Thats nothing more than a classification by the DEA/FDA and you know it.
Early PH's are now considered "Drugs" Why ? Because obviously they had to be effective to some extent.
Early PH's are now considered "Drugs" Why ? Because obviously they had to be effective to some extent.
muscleup said:
Not really. Something can a drug but not a particularly effective one.
And I'll expalin again, what I do is FAR different than what most companies do. Most companies buy bulk ingredients -- most of which are already selling well -- then they put together a few ingredients and off it goes. I spent years testing different substances and found what worked. Some of those substances weren't even in any existing bodybuilding supplements at the time.
Now maybe the Gaspari people did the same thing and hit upon something. So many claims have been made over the years and one after the other, the stuff was garbage. So I'll concede that it worked for you, but it's still a chemical and I'd rather go natural and/or use a real drug. I guess if you're stuck and can't get dex it beats using some junk like 6 oxo. But for long term use and/or PCT, I'd still have to say POST CYCLE and aromasin would be safer and more effective.
nzrodney
Banned
In a world where it is not always possible to obtain pharma ancillaries, I have used Formadrol & Ergopharms 6OXO Extreme and found them to be effective AI's. I believe your products Nelson may represent a leap forward in estrogen control but I also believe there are other products out there that also have their place.
josenunes
New member
6-oxo and novedex work and work well:
Willoughby DS, Wilborn C, Taylor L, Campbell W.
Department of Health, Human Performance, and Recreation, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798-7313, USA.
This study examined the effects of an aromatase-inhibiting nutritional supplement on serum steroid hormones, body composition, and clinical safety markers. Sixteen eugonadal young men ingested either Novedex XT or a placebo daily for 8 wk, followed by a 3-wk washout period. Body composition was assessed and blood and urine samples obtained at weeks 0, 4, 8, and 11. Data were analyzed by 2-way repeated-measures ANOVA. Novedex XT resulted in average increases of 283%, 625%, 566%, and 438% for total testosterone (P=0.001), free testosterone (P=0.001), dihydrotestosterone (P=0.001), and the testosterone:estrogen ratio (P=0.001), respectively, whereas fat mass decreased 3.5% (P=0.026) during supplementation. No significant differences were observed in blood and urinary clinical safety markers or for any of the other serum hormones (P>0.05). This study indicates that Novedex XT significantly increases serum androgen levels and decreases fat mass.
PMID: 17460335 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
now for 6-oxo:
A study was recently completed at Baylor University that looked at the physiological responses to 8 week cycles of 6-OXO. In this study, there were two groups – one that consumed 300mg 6-OXO a day and one that consumed 600mg a day. Each group took the 6-OXO for 8 weeks during which blood samples were taken at intervals throughout the cycle and at 3 weeks after the completion of the cycle. The blood was later analyzed for hormone levels and for toxicity indicators.
The full results cannot be released until the study is peer reviewed, however we can give you a sneak peak at the most important aspect of the study – the influence of 6-OXO upon free testosterone levels.
As you can see from the graph, the 600mg a day group experienced a very substantial increase in free testosterone that was sustained throughout the 8 week cycle. The levels peaked around the 3 week mark, where they measured roughly twice that of baseline levels.
Of particular interest is the fact that after the 3 week washout period, the levels of testosterone for both the 300mg and 600mg groups were pretty much exactly the same as they were at the start of the cycle. This indicates that there are no negative rebound effects upon testosterone levels after cessation of 6-OXO cycles.
It is also important to note that a complete blood panel showed no significant changes in toxicity parameters throughout the course of the cycles.
not bad for otc...
Willoughby DS, Wilborn C, Taylor L, Campbell W.
Department of Health, Human Performance, and Recreation, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798-7313, USA.
This study examined the effects of an aromatase-inhibiting nutritional supplement on serum steroid hormones, body composition, and clinical safety markers. Sixteen eugonadal young men ingested either Novedex XT or a placebo daily for 8 wk, followed by a 3-wk washout period. Body composition was assessed and blood and urine samples obtained at weeks 0, 4, 8, and 11. Data were analyzed by 2-way repeated-measures ANOVA. Novedex XT resulted in average increases of 283%, 625%, 566%, and 438% for total testosterone (P=0.001), free testosterone (P=0.001), dihydrotestosterone (P=0.001), and the testosterone:estrogen ratio (P=0.001), respectively, whereas fat mass decreased 3.5% (P=0.026) during supplementation. No significant differences were observed in blood and urinary clinical safety markers or for any of the other serum hormones (P>0.05). This study indicates that Novedex XT significantly increases serum androgen levels and decreases fat mass.
PMID: 17460335 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
now for 6-oxo:
A study was recently completed at Baylor University that looked at the physiological responses to 8 week cycles of 6-OXO. In this study, there were two groups – one that consumed 300mg 6-OXO a day and one that consumed 600mg a day. Each group took the 6-OXO for 8 weeks during which blood samples were taken at intervals throughout the cycle and at 3 weeks after the completion of the cycle. The blood was later analyzed for hormone levels and for toxicity indicators.
The full results cannot be released until the study is peer reviewed, however we can give you a sneak peak at the most important aspect of the study – the influence of 6-OXO upon free testosterone levels.
As you can see from the graph, the 600mg a day group experienced a very substantial increase in free testosterone that was sustained throughout the 8 week cycle. The levels peaked around the 3 week mark, where they measured roughly twice that of baseline levels.
Of particular interest is the fact that after the 3 week washout period, the levels of testosterone for both the 300mg and 600mg groups were pretty much exactly the same as they were at the start of the cycle. This indicates that there are no negative rebound effects upon testosterone levels after cessation of 6-OXO cycles.
It is also important to note that a complete blood panel showed no significant changes in toxicity parameters throughout the course of the cycles.
not bad for otc...
Nemisis RR
New member
Variable Baseline Day 7 Day 14 Day 21 Day 28
Testosterone ng/dL 517 (162) 1265 (252) 1515 (212) 1714 (322) 1758 (435)
bio T (ng/dL) 159 (57) 636 (265) 798 (94) 971 (226) 998 (210)
Estradiol (pg/mL) 22 (3) 19 (9) 16 (9) 19 (11) 19 (9)
Glucose (mg/dL) 90 (4) 87 (10)
BUN:Cr 17 (5) 17 (4)
Bilirubin (mg/dL) 0.8 (0.5) 0.9 (0.5)
ALP (IU/L) 84 (32) 67 (43)
AST (IU/L) 27 (7) 27 (8)
ALT (IU/L) 29 (11) 31 (15)
Chol (mg/dL) 156 (19) 163 (27)
TAG (mg/dL) 74 (22) 72 (19)
HDL (mg/dL) 54 (3) 51 (9)
LDL (mg/dL) 87 (18) 97 (20)
SBP (mm Hg) 124 (5) 124 (11)
DBP (mm Hg) 75 (6) 74 (14)
I am sorry but levels of test at 1758 ng/dl? I call bullshit. There are individuals on 200mg of test that do not have bloodwork like that. No I never tried it. And nothing against Gaspari as M1-T worked.
Testosterone ng/dL 517 (162) 1265 (252) 1515 (212) 1714 (322) 1758 (435)
bio T (ng/dL) 159 (57) 636 (265) 798 (94) 971 (226) 998 (210)
Estradiol (pg/mL) 22 (3) 19 (9) 16 (9) 19 (11) 19 (9)
Glucose (mg/dL) 90 (4) 87 (10)
BUN:Cr 17 (5) 17 (4)
Bilirubin (mg/dL) 0.8 (0.5) 0.9 (0.5)
ALP (IU/L) 84 (32) 67 (43)
AST (IU/L) 27 (7) 27 (8)
ALT (IU/L) 29 (11) 31 (15)
Chol (mg/dL) 156 (19) 163 (27)
TAG (mg/dL) 74 (22) 72 (19)
HDL (mg/dL) 54 (3) 51 (9)
LDL (mg/dL) 87 (18) 97 (20)
SBP (mm Hg) 124 (5) 124 (11)
DBP (mm Hg) 75 (6) 74 (14)
I am sorry but levels of test at 1758 ng/dl? I call bullshit. There are individuals on 200mg of test that do not have bloodwork like that. No I never tried it. And nothing against Gaspari as M1-T worked.
Nemisis RR said:
Thank you. Those numbers are total bullshit, I don;t care what "university: it was supposedly conducted. And anything that involves Pat Arnold has as much credence as the tooth fairy.
LiquidPhire
New member
al420 said:
+1 bro
still usin' the aifm as well.. If it works why not use it right? People will flame me for supporting it but whatever, i dont know the past e-drama really well. Im sure some of our sponsors have products that work as well also though!
al420
New member
Liquid2006 said:+1 bro
I have access to aromasin, pharm grade, and I prefer AIFM. Price and results.
Flame away.
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