Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Ok lets think about this what does TRT/HRT really do? Its to restore several of the natural functions that our own testosterone normally would (low libido, energy,muscle wasting to a point general outlook on life). So tell me other than possible liver problems and I say possible what is the difference from test injections,test cream or orals. Proviron does all this as does adriol (test undecanoate) which schering is actually manufacturing in other countries for trt. So maybe before regurgitating something we read or heard as fact we should make our own in depth study! For example the general public thinks anybody who uses sreoids will either get roid rage or brain cancer,which we know is totally wrong. If anyone should realize that things are not always what they seem to be it is us!! Im not totally sold on long term oral use but what my original question was has anybody done orals for a long period? We have guys who hate needles and the cream is expensive and some guys have skin irritation so this is why we are doing our research. Remember Im talking about trt doses which are very small compared to cycle doses. Show me some love guys we are on the same side.LOL!
orals for hrt
- Thread starter clozto50
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d_rson
New member
Again, other than andriol, what oral actually does everything testosterone does, and nothing negative that test does not? Proviron - no it's a DHT and wears off over time and is an anti-estrogen. Winstrol? No, it's a DHT and causes joint pain, is an anti-estrogen and anti-prolactin, and liver toxic over peroids of time (proven in actual use for muscle wasting). Dbol? Closer, but it readily converts to estrogen and causes bloat even at low dose. Drol? Tbol? Var?
I understand your point, but if it's NOT test, it won't replace test. If you can think of an oral that behaves as test does, and does not do other things that someone on HRT would not want (bloat, reduced estrogen), etc, post it. Also keep in mind that these things would further supress what natural test there is, and could completely shut test production down, so if these compounds do not replace test completely, the person will be further lacking.
I understand your point, but if it's NOT test, it won't replace test. If you can think of an oral that behaves as test does, and does not do other things that someone on HRT would not want (bloat, reduced estrogen), etc, post it. Also keep in mind that these things would further supress what natural test there is, and could completely shut test production down, so if these compounds do not replace test completely, the person will be further lacking.
As I see it all test no matter what the delivery will shut down natural test but we really are not concerned about that since test levels are really low anyway. Also with any drug your body will build up a tolerance to it over time. This is another reason we are looking at different compounds,lets say Proviron for 3 to 6 months then Andriol 3 to 6 months. Yes you may still have to take aromidex but with the low dose oral you may not get much estrogen sides. I find it strange that schering would market this drug if it was so toxic to the liver,we have not even talked about primo. Also the real question is how toxic these orals will be long term,but having low test can have many other health ramifications also. Hey just throwing things out to see if anybody has done this. Also I believe blue cross is no longer paying for test cream,and its quite expensive so guys who wont pin themslves or have someone do it may just say screw it.
d_rson
New member
I would imagine not all of your patients are completely shutdown. And you keep refering to ALL AAS as being test, and IT IS NOT. Please get that straight. Testosterone is the ONLY one that is Test. Anadrol, Dbol, tbol, winny, etc, are NOT test.
Except for what the body expects - test.
Yeah, that would be great - subject your patients to all different side effects and differing performance.
The diseases/conditions that these drugs are designed for are much worse than worries of liver problems, and the patients are constantly monitored AND cycled on and off the drugs.
Primo is a DHB, and while it is a great addition to TRT, it's not TRT.
HRT/TRT is nothing new, so you don't think this has been discussed in detail a million times? There is no equitable replacement for Testosterone replacement except for some form of testosterone. The most current research is in SARMS, but that's still a ways away, because even SARMS are still not replacing all the aspects lost when test is low.
The solution for that is Test Undecaonate. 4 shots a year. If they can't take 4 shots a year, then it must not be that important to them.
lincolnsvo
New member
Safe oral HRT...something we've all wondered about, I'm sure.
In an old clinical study, they were testing cypionate many years ago and gave the subjects an oral version of cyp, with no sides. But I've never seen anything about it since.
Yeah, the brain cancer thing...thanks to the singular death of Lyle Alzado. Good grief! Hell back then they were getting HGH from cadavers and later discovered it caused brain tumors. "whoops, sorry, that cadaver had already been pumped with formaldehyde. You didn't inject that did you?"
But you don't hear that part reported. But even if not, he could've just been someone in sports who developed brain cancer. My Step-mom died from brain cancer...she bragged about not needing much sleep, was obese, and ate like shit...I think that's a better case for likely development.
In an old clinical study, they were testing cypionate many years ago and gave the subjects an oral version of cyp, with no sides. But I've never seen anything about it since.
Yeah, the brain cancer thing...thanks to the singular death of Lyle Alzado. Good grief! Hell back then they were getting HGH from cadavers and later discovered it caused brain tumors. "whoops, sorry, that cadaver had already been pumped with formaldehyde. You didn't inject that did you?"
But you don't hear that part reported. But even if not, he could've just been someone in sports who developed brain cancer. My Step-mom died from brain cancer...she bragged about not needing much sleep, was obese, and ate like shit...I think that's a better case for likely development.
TU would be the bomb for TRT, too bad out FDA is so anal and holding up approval doing to the rare case of an oil embolism. Whats strange is I would think the risk of an oil embolism would be the same for any oil based AAS. Sounds like the FDA is just jacking around the maker on this one.
So after further study and threads from other boards I do believe oral TRT is possible. Yes it may stress the liver a little but with a good dose of milk thistle it should be fine(remember we are talking TRT doses not cycle), Hey nothing is perfect, actually orals have an advantage over injectibles in that they have a more even delivery without the highs and lows. Creams are expensive with skin irritation and possible transfer to your partner.. Bayer Schering uses Proviron and Andriol in other countries for TRT for years .We are using Nebido( test un) and it seems to work well and yes hopefully the US will allow it but my last info was that for now its not. Maybe becuase you take 1000 mg in a 4cc shot at one time is the reason. We are in the Dominican Republic an its all good here!!
XMAN.
New member
d_rson
New member
Hilarious. But you can't answer my question. Other than Andriol, which requires constant dosage patterns during the day for stable blood levels - and it's absorbtion rate is inconsistant - other than andriol, what oral TRT are you thinking? I'd be interested in hearing why you think such oral equates to replacement testosterone.
And are you aware that liver toxicity is NOT so much about the amount of the dosage, but the LENGTH of time on ANY dose. The liver toxcity studies YOU can find on the net are in regards to musle wasting, low dose replacement therapy.
And your comment about oral being more blood stable? Nope. You have to consistently take orals 2-3 times per day, MINIMUM, to get halfway stable levels. Oral half lifes are in hours, not days like injectables, and injectables have ESTERS on them that allow them to be slowly released into the system more evenly. Orals PEAK and DROP OFF.
You haven't actually done your research. You probably found some board where idiots answered your question the way YOU wanted to hear it (ie, wrong). I would think your doctor at your clinic would be explaining these things to you.
