Opinion on the Smith Machine

[s8nlilhlpr]

But you also have to consider, most machines in the gym use a fixed range of motion like the Smith. Why would they be any different?

Most ISO machines are pieces of crap also though. They are built for 1 specific body size/type and everyone else adjusts to them. If you haven't been on this board that long, you still should see how many people here advocate ONLY using free weights, and doing everything possible standing, so that you use all the muscles you can. WHY would you practice pushing a bar on a fixed plane of motion, how can that possibly help you in real life? Yet, learning how to pick something heavy off the ground, and get it over your head, that could be useful. You can squat all you want in the stupid smith, but the second you try freeweight squats, you will notice the difference (namely 'cause you'll tip over w/out stablizers).


EDIT: Also, you mentioned PT showing "newbies" how to squat on the smith. Ever notice PT DON'T WANT YOU TO PROGRESS. Think about it, if their clients actually lost weight, and learned the exercise properly, they would have no excuse to hire them again and they would lose money.

 

[blueta2]

They are no different, they are all crap in my opinion, and all they do is take up space in commercial gyms. None of them build ANY functional strength that translates into ANY real life activity. The only thing lifting on a particular machine prepares one to do is lift on that particular machine.

You may have zero interest in functional strength, and while that's fine, the same problem I see with the Smith, I see with other machines......Will training on machines exclusively lead directly to serious injury?? Most likely not, but they do not in any way build any sort of functional strength or 'teach' anybody the first thing about correct form.

Honestly, take the time to learn to free weight squat, even if you can only squat with your bodyweight and no bar etc, that, to me, is much more beneficial than machine work.

Yeah I have been working on my squatting....I'm a wimp with that! I'm trying though!

You never use the tricep pulldown, the hamstring machine etc...these are fixed ranges and I see many body builders in my gym using them daily.
Some of those machines are good. Some fixed range of motion is ok!
I agree free weights are what is needed to build strength and muscle, but not all the fixed rnage machines can be bad?!

 

[blueta2]

Most ISO machines are pieces of crap also though. They are built for 1 specific body size/type and everyone else adjusts to them. If you haven't been on this board that long, you still should see how many people here advocate ONLY using free weights, and doing everything possible standing, so that you use all the muscles you can. WHY would you practice pushing a bar on a fixed plane of motion, how can that possibly help you in real life? Yet, learning how to pick something heavy off the ground, and get it over your head, that could be useful. You can squat all you want in the stupid smith, but the second you try freeweight squats, you will notice the difference (namely 'cause you'll tip over w/out stablizers).


EDIT: Also, you mentioned PT showing "newbies" how to squat on the smith. Ever notice PT DON'T WANT YOU TO PROGRESS. Think about it, if their clients actually lost weight, and learned the exercise properly, they would have no excuse to hire them again and they would lose money.

All so true!

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

You mentioned the tricep pushdown. Cables are slightly different than a machine IMHO. Most cable's allow you to set the height to pull from, and the pulley allows you to change the angle. you simply can't do that with a machine. Also, why bother with hamstring curls when SLDL and Lunges work, and carry over to bigger lifts?

 

[blueta2]

You mentioned the tricep pushdown. Cables are slightly different than a machine IMHO. Most cable's allow you to set the height to pull from, and the pulley allows you to change the angle. you simply can't do that with a machine. Also, why bother with hamstring curls when SLDL and Lunges work, and carry over to bigger lifts?

Not sure why...this is why I am here..trying to learn more!
So many ppl have so many diff ways to work out.....very interesting all these opinions and advice!

 

[BiggT]

Yeah I have been working on my squatting....I'm a wimp with that! I'm trying though!

You never use the tricep pulldown, the hamstring machine etc...these are fixed ranges and I see many body builders in my gym using them daily.
Some of those machines are good. Some fixed range of motion is ok!
I agree free weights are what is needed to build strength and muscle, but not all the fixed rnage machines can be bad?!

They are not all 'bad' when used merely as extra work/assistance work. From a functional training/athletic performance background, they are a pure waste of time. No athlete should use a machine just because they see a bodybuilder using them.

If you free weight squat and have strong stabalizers and a strong core and want to add more direct hamstring work, then leg curls won't hurt you (I'd prefer SLDLs or GMs or glute/ham raises) but yeah, leg curls won't hurt you obviously.

Same thing for triceps pushdowns.....will they cause injury? No, but again, with dips and close-grip pressing, I'd rather get more bang for my buck....I see nothing wrong with a couple high rep sets post-workout for shits and giggles to leave the gym feeling blown up, but by no means should pushdowns be the staple exercise of someone's triceps training.....nor in my opinion should someone 'train triceps' lol, but that is me coming from my background, if you want me to explain I gladly will.

My philosophy is train big lifts progressively, training for a pump or training to get sore is a recipe for making no progress.

 

[bignate73]

Searched "Smith Machine"

 

[blueta2]

They are not all 'bad' when used merely as extra work/assistance work. From a functional training/athletic performance background, they are a pure waste of time. No athlete should use a machine just because they see a bodybuilder using them.

If you free weight squat and have strong stabalizers and a strong core and want to add more direct hamstring work, then leg curls won't hurt you (I'd prefer SLDLs or GMs or glute/ham raises) but yeah, leg curls won't hurt you obviously.

Same thing for triceps pushdowns.....will they cause injury? No, but again, with dips and close-grip pressing, I'd rather get more bang for my buck....I see nothing wrong with a couple high rep sets post-workout for shits and giggles to leave the gym feeling blown up, but by no means should pushdowns be the staple exercise of someone's triceps training.....nor in my opinion should someone 'train triceps' lol, but that is me coming from my background, if you want me to explain I gladly will.

My philosophy is train big lifts progressively, training for a pump or training to get sore is a recipe for making no progress.

All good insight...thanks for your comments. I am changing my mind on the Smith now.
And yes please explain about not training triceps?! You never train them?

I find it so interesting how everyone trains different. I guess there is no one perfect way for one person.

 

[Protobuilder]

Why not "train triceps"? Because the body is not a concantenation of individual muscles working independently. The body is a unit. The muscles function together to achieve movement. When you "move" in real life, many muscles function together, including smaller, but critical, "non-bodybuilding" muscles. Compound movements more readily mimic natural movements and, as a result, involve the most musculature. Thus, folks around here train movements, like overhead press or squat, rather than muscles per se, such as "shoulders" or "quads" b/c it's not realistic. The squat is not just a "quad" exercise. But it builds lots of muscle and is time-tested in athletics and in bodybuilding. And adding 100 pounds to your squat translates to increased muscle mass in most people.

From my personal experience, I can say that doing isolation type stuff on machines is by far EASIER than learning and sticking with compound movements. But I can also say that I feel MUCH better physically--flexibility, strength, coordination, etc--after hammering away at basic compound lifts like back/front squats, etc.

You might enjoy reading this:

http://www.danjohn.org/bp.pdf

 

[vin01]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to BiggT again.

Great posts, guys.

I was going to say I think the Smith is useful to do calf raises, but then I realized, I don't even use it for that. I'm sorry, but people who squat in the Smith are just on a different planet.

FYI Smith users who bench/squat/row/shrug/press in the Smith, the bar only weighs 15lbs. Isn't it amazing that you can lift the bar with a single finger?