On the EDGE! GRRRRRRRrrrrr!

[Little Girl]

Since I’m on DHEA I loose patience at the supermarket, I have that attitude in the gym – don’t mess with me or I’ll kick your ass-, I drive my car like racing car. These three words are really describing me : ON THE EDGE. Does it ever happened to you or am I going crazy?? Usually I’m not very patiente but I feel like I’m gonna bite someone!!!! Please, tell me I’m not crazy!!!!!!!!

 

[diamonddiceclay]

I took DHEA up until a few weeks ago and I did not notice the things you describe

 

[wilson6]

You're probably going crazy because I really, really doubt the DHEA is causing your problems. Could be that it is spiked with some ephedrine or other stimulant. Are you training a lot harder since you started the DHEA? could be overtraining. Perhaps try a different brand of DHEA. Or, maybe I should ask why you're wasting your money on DHEA in the first place, unless you know you need to supplement because you had your DHEA blood levels checked.


W6

 

[Little Girl]

I did my homework

I DON'T THINK I'M LOOSING MY MONEY. I had great results with DHEA. From what I red and what I heard, there's some possible results from DHEA. There's something else than winny, test, anavar, etc, that gives results. I'm not a beginner in that world, I've been training for almost 8 years and I think that I know my stuff. I know that I can't have the same results with DHEA than primo or whatever you want. I think that it's not a good idea to be on AS for a too long period of time, so I was giving my body a brake. Actually, I'm preparing myself for a powerlifting comp so I'm stacking DHEA with primo.

There's some possible explanations of my bad mood:
-DHEA, is produced by the adrenal glands and appears to play a significant role in control of mood and sex drive.
-DHEA is secreted by the adrenal glands and is converted into testosterone and estrogen.
BTW, it is banned for athletes by the International Olympic Committee and the National Collegiate Athletic Association as an anabolic agent.

Side effects of DHEA use may include androgenic effects (acne- wich increased since I used DHEA, oily skin, excessive facial hair growth, voice deepening, hair loss, and mood changes)

I should have read this before asking you. Sorry!
Thanks alot!!!!!

LG

 

[wilson6]

There have been a number of well controlled studies in addition to tons of anecdotal info on DHEA and possible anabolic effects. Even in doses as high as 1600 mg/d, there was nothing. Its all hype. Nothing more than a placebo effect.

You say you're combining primo with DHEA, but you think the DHEA is causing the mood problems? Sure it isn't the primo, or maybe the primo isn't primo but test.

Just because something is banned by the NCAA and IOC doesn't mean it enhances performance, esp. DHEA, andro and the likes.

Great results with DHEA but itself? Define great. I've been in this business for a long time and no one I've ever talked to has ever had any kind of results with DHEA by itself. Either you're really deficient in DHEA, the placebo effect is powerful and you're just training harder, you're getting a sizable increase in testosterone and you're deficient in test in addition to DHEA, or there is some interaction between the primo and DHEA.

W6

 

[NubianBeauty]

My friend's primo can be trusted, right?

 

[Little Girl]

I used primo before and never had any sides. Anyway, I started dhea 3 weeks before primo so I'm sure that it's not primo that gaves me that bad mood. I wasn't believing in dhea either but I am sure that it helped me. Of course I'm training hard but I'm always training hard.
Concerning the fake primo, my source is very very very powerful and would never sell any crap or something else than what he says that he sells you...

LG

 

[MS]

Although I agree 100% with Wilson6 regarding DHEA's lack of anabolic effect, I would suggest you stop it immediately becuase of the following reports:

DHEA and mania.
Dean CE.

Minneapolis Veteran's Affairs Medical Center, University of Minnesota Department of Psychiatry, 55417, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: To inform clinicians and investigators of the potential for severe mania in conjunction with the use of prasterone (DHEA; dehydroepiandrosterone). CASE SUMMARY: A 31-year-old Hispanic man was admitted on a 72-hour observation period from a neighboring hospital after threatening to kill himself, family members, and a friend. A loaded rifle was found under his bed. The family confirmed that he had begun using DHEA several weeks prior to his mood and behavioral changes. He denied any past violence, but had once been given an unsubstantiated diagnosis of bipolar disorder....... DISCUSSION: Although the Food and Drug Administration noted in 1985 that the efficacy and safety of DHEA were never confirmed, the agent continues to be sold over the counter. Several groups have used DHEA in the treatment of AIDS, memory loss, and depression, but reported no serious adverse events; however, recent studies indicate that severe psychiatric symptoms can develop in a subset of users, including mania, impaired cognition, and overt psychosis. Although uncertain, potential risk factors include high doses of DHEA; history of mood disorder; concurrent use of alcohol, street drugs, or antidepressants; and cytochrome P450 polymorphisms. CONCLUSIONS: The use of DHEA in those under age 35 years may be especially risky, as endogenous DHEA concentrations peak at age 20-30 years. Those using or investigating DHEA should be cognizant of the potential for severe psychiatric complications.

 

[Little Girl]

SHIT! I'm not that crazy though... That is pretty scrary but I'm sure it's not my case. I checked, I've no wepon under my bed!
BTW, I forgot to tell that I was also having my pms...

LG

 

[karde]

DHEA effects can depend a lot on your age. Levels in your body drop as you age, and are at your highest in your early 20's from what I understand.

It is useful for women in menopause.

As far as doing anything for younger people (men/women) I have read many studies that it's pretty much useless, especially since you already have so much flowing through you already.

 

[wilson6]

"however, recent studies indicate that severe psychiatric symptoms can develop in a subset of users"

Someone please cite those recent studies.

W6

 

[MS]

I suggest you email Charles Dean for his reference list. There have been some interesting associations between high DHEA levels and pychosis, but I haven't come across any studies where they actually gave young people high doses of the stuff and observed psychosis developing. It may be that Dean has been to some recent conferences where as-yet unpublished work was presented.

As far back as 1992:

Integr Physiol Behav Sci 1992 Jul-Sep;27(3):209-15

Severe psychosis and the adrenal androgens.
Howard JS 3rd.
Dept. of Health, Fresno, CA 93775.

Past literature suggests a link between certain psychotic states and adrenal androgen production, including Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). A group of severely psychotic androgenized females, refractory to substantial amounts of neuroleptics, has been identified for whom endocrine testing revealed abnormally high levels of DHEA. A similar group has been identified among the severely psychotic male population. Improvement in psychosis appears to occur as DHEA returns to its normal range using standard low dose Dexamethasone suppression.

Without any hard clinical studies, the best advice for little girl would be to knock off the DHEA (for a variety of reasons) and see if her mood returns to normal. Chances are that her problem will be from the Primo, PCOS, or other endocrine imbalance/stress. But why take something that you don't need and is prolly not beneficial if there is even a slight chance of negative side effects??

 

[wilson6]

There's a big difference between giving someone DHEA and the subsequent development of psychosis and someone with psychosis having high endogenous high DHEA levels. They used to think that because violent criminals had higher test levels that giving test made one a violent criminal. Bhasin laid rest to that hypothesis in 1996.

We do know that prednisone can cause serious psych problems; by using dexamethasone to suppress DHEA, endogenous cortisol is likewise suppressed. Thus, is it the DHEA or cortisol that was causing the problems?

Regardless, as MS said, if it is DHEA, it makes no sense to me to be taking DHEA when it isn't worth shit as an anabolic and is causing behavioral problems.

W6

 

[MS]

It sounds like we basically agree Wilson6. DHEA is worthless as an anabolic unless you have an actual deficiency. But on top of that, I think most people who pop OTC DHEA don't realize that it is a neuroactive steroid all by itself just like estrogen etc... It does not need to be converted to anything else to have this effect.

Essentially if you need more testosterone then take T, if you need more estrogen then take E, if you need more DHEA then take DHEA. Your body will use DHEA as it sees fit, and in young women this is at least as likely to be for estrogen conversion or little conversion (=high DHEA levels). I don't know for sure, but I would suspect that if you're taking Primo as well, that you body is MUCH more likely to make estrogen than Test. Of course, also I think much estrogen can also make ya feel a bit crazy at times.

Or as WarLobo said, drop the DHEA