Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
**Omnibolic(O-Bol) & AndroGenerator Now Available @ Proteabody!**
- Thread starter Ross
- Start date
chazk
New member
"Users can easily expect to put on 5-10 pounds within 4 weeks, and continued gains thereafter. The gains experienced on AndroGenerator are dry and hard, as the user will not experience any water-retention at all."
5-10 lbs of soild lean muscle tissue no water retention is a big claim to make in with in 4 weeks time.
I could careless about people's logs, online journals. Do you have double blind placebo studies to back your claims ?
5-10 lbs of soild lean muscle tissue no water retention is a big claim to make in with in 4 weeks time.
I could careless about people's logs, online journals. Do you have double blind placebo studies to back your claims ?
chazk said:
Users will gain that weight from the CEEM alone!
Nonetheless, check out these studies on the other ingredients!THE ANABOLIC EFFECTS OF LJ100™
For a printable copy of this study, please click here.
Sareena Hanim Hamzah & Ashril Yusof
Department of Exercise Physiology, Sports Centre, University of Malaya, Kuala Lumpur
Introduction
Eurycoma longifolia (LJ100™) is a tall shrub tree of a Simaroubaceace family and is commonly found along the hilly jungle slopes of Malaysia. It has been used for years as a traditional medicine to treat fever, ulcer, malarial, swelling, reduce high blood pressure and fatigue. However, LJ100 is better known for its aphrodisiac properties. In a clinical study by Ismail (2002), he demonstrated that this herb enhanced sexual activities and increased free testosterone levels in men. Increases in testosterone levels is associated with an improvement in fat free mass, muscle size and muscle strength in men (Brodsky, 1996; Bhasin, 1997), which could be further amplified by strength training (Bhasin, 1996). In this study, the effect of LJ100 water-soluble extract on body composition and muscle size in men will be measured.
Methods
Fourteen healthy adult males (age 25.64 ? 3.73 years) received either 100 mg/day LJ100 water-soluble extract (n = 7) or placebo (n = 7) for 8 weeks. Simultaneously, both groups performed an intensive strength-training program with initial load of 60% repetition maximum (RM), which was carried out on alternate days. A total of 10 exercises, which make up the circuit, were catered towards providing a total lower body and upper body workout. Each workout was done in two sets of 10 repetitions with 1-minute rest in between. The loads were gradually increased 10% per week. Body composition measurement using skin fold test was taken at two sites as recommended by McArdle (1993). A standard strength test that comprised of 1 RM test was administered on the subject to determine their strength. The upper limb strength was measured by determining their ability to resist maximum load using the shoulder press machine (Nautilus, USA) following the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM, 2001) standard measurement procedure. The arm circumference measurement was taken using a measuring tape at proximal 1/3rd of the arm. Electromyography reading of the isometric contraction of bicep muscle was taken using the surface electrodes. Subjects were instructed to perform an isokinetic flexion of the elbow using free barbells with load of 10 kg for the durations of 5 seconds. The mean amplitude was analyzed using the MyoResearch Software (Noraxon, USA).
All the measurements were taken 1 day prior to supplementation (LJ100 and placebo) and training period, and 1 day after the completion of 8 weeks experiment. All data were analyzed using the Statistical Package for Social Science (SPSS) computer software version 10.0 (2000) for t-test, means and standard deviation. Statistical significance was established at p<0.05.
Results
The results for fat free mass, fat mass, 1 RM, arm circumference, and sEMG of both groups are shown in Table 1.
Table 1. Average fat free mass, fat mass, 1 RM test, arm circumference and sEMG of the group consuming LJ100 water soluble extract and placebo before and after the period of supplementation and training program
* Results of mean ± SD for pre and post experiment showed significant difference (p<0.05)
The fat free mass of the group supplemented with LJ100 water-soluble extract showed a significant increment of approximately 2.1 kg. There were no significant changes in fat free mass in placebo. Body fat percentages were significantly decreased in treatment and placebo. However, a greater decrement was shown in treatment compared to placebo i.e. 9.14% and 6.57%, respectively. The 1 RM test muscle strength test showed an increase in gross muscle power in both groups. The treatment group showed a greater increment in strength compared to placebo i.e. 6.78% and 2.77%, respectively. The mean arm circumference in treatment group increased significantly by 1.8 cm following the supplementation while no significant changes observed in placebo group. The mean sEMG reading of the treatment and placebo showed a significant decrement in values after going through the exercise program. However, the treatment group showed 2.92% higher reduction in electrical activity of the muscle measured at the end of the experiment period compared to placebo (25.70% and 22.78%, respectively). During and after the administration of LJ100, no adverse effects were noted within the treatment group.
Discussion/ Conclusion
In this study, although the testosterone level was not measured during the test period, an increased in fat free mass in treatment group may be linked to the rise in steroidal hormones in the body. The percentage of body fat appeared to decrease in both groups, this finding is in agreement with a study by Brodsky (1996). However, the further decrease in fat mass by the treatment group could be explained by the higher metabolic rate after consuming LJ100. The increment in muscle strength with strength training in both the treatment and placebo groups were consistent with the finding by Kraemer (1993), he suggested that the improvement in strength was caused by the increase in testosterone levels. Jones and Round (1996) proposed that increases in strength are greater than increases in muscle size during the first 6-8 weeks of strength training. Thus, an increase in arm circumference observed in treatment group could be explained by the testosterone enhancing effect of the extract. In conclusion, results obtained from this pilot study suggest that the administration of LJ100 improved fat free mass, reduce fat mass, increase muscle strength and size suggesting LJ100 might be used as an ergogenic aid. Further studies will be carried out to determine the mechanism of action at hormonal and molecular level.
Water-soluble extract of LJ100™ as a potential
natural energizer for healthy aging in men.
M.I.M.TAMBI1, S. OTHMAN2and J.M SAAD2
1Specialist Reproductive Research Center, National Population & Family Development Board, Ministry of Women & Family Development, Malaysia.
2Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine, University of Malaya, Malaysia.
Introduction
Malaysia has a rich source of rainforests that contain thousands of plants with potential medicinal values. One such plant is the tall shrub tree from the Simaroubaceace family, Eurycoma Longifolia (LJ100™ Tongkat Ali) which is commonly found along the hilly jungle slopes of Malaysia (Burkill and Hanif, 1930). The local name of the shrub is 'Tongkat Ali' or Ali's Walking Stick' which is rather suggestive of its traditional function of sexual support for aging males. Similar trees are also found in other Asian Rainforests; however, it is traditionally known that only two species of the shrub namely E.Longifolia and E.apiculata have medicinal properties (Burkill and Hanif, 1930). The medicinal elements are only found within the roots. The root of Eurycoma Longifolia was used as a decoction by the natives of old Malaya, especially the elderly for strength and energy (Burkill and Hanif,1930), this practice remains to this day.
Early experimental studies on animals were mainly focused on the aphrodisiac properties of LJ100. Mice treated LJ100 demonstrated higher frequency of mounting compared to the control group (Ali and Saad, 1993). Additionally, the serum testosterone of the dissected mice showed an increase of 480% compared to the placebo-controlled group (Ali and Saad, 1993). Further studies provided evidence that LJ100 produced a dose-dependent increase in mounting frequency in male rats, hence, acting as a potent stimulator of sexual arousal in the absence of feedback from genital sensation (Ang and Sim,1997). It was also shown that LJ100enhanced and maintained a high level of crossovers, mountings, intromissions, and ejaculations.
Other studies showed that when the extract of LJ100 was injected into male mice, they showed intense physical activities and copulatory behavior (Ang and Sim, 1998). Even frail mice were observed to be active and alert. In another study, LJ100 was exposed to penile muscular tissue of male mice; results demonstrated that the muscular tissue was found to relax. Analysis on the mitochondria homogenates of the liver and penile muscle of the mice showed that the extract could enhance the respiration of mitochondria, leading to 60% increase in ATP production through oxidative phosphorylation (Khamis and Saad, 1993).
Early clinical trials studied the effect of LJ100 on testicular tissues. The samples were incubated along with human testicular tissues taken from men who were orchidectomised as part of treatment of prostate cancer (Aminuddin et al, 1995). There was significant increase in the concentration of testosterone and its precursors. The results suggest that the LJ100 has the ability to increase the biosynthesis of androgens (Aminuddin et al, 1995).
Androgen is the generic term for any natural or synthetic compound, usually a steroid hormone, that stimulates or controls the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics in vertebrates. This includes the activity of the accessory male sex organs and development of male secondary sex characteristics. The primary, and most well known, androgen is testosterone.
In this study, we intend to investigate the effect of the LJ100 water-soluble extract on testosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) levels in human subjects. Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is a natural steroid hormone produced from cholesterol by the adrenal glands. Dehydroepiandrosterone is structurally similar to testosterone and estrone and can be easily converted into those hormones (DHEA is a precursor for testosterone). Sex hormone binding globulins are carrier proteins that regulate the amount of unbound steroid in the blood. A decrease in SHBG is associated with an improvement in free testosterone index. Additional parameters that will be measured include Quality Of Life (QOL) via the PADAM score and Sexual Health Inventory Questionnaires (SHI-Q).
Methodology
In a Reproductive Research Center in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, 30 human volunteers were recruited in a randomized open trial. The volunteers were selected among married men whose age ranges between 31-52 years. There were no other specific criteria for the selection of volunteers. Dr. Johari M. Saad and co-workers from the Department of Biochemistry, University Malaya, Malaysia, produced LJ100 water-soluble extract of E.Longifolia root.
Upon registration, the volunteers were asked to fill out two questionnaires: (i) a validated Sexual Health Inventory Questionnaires (SHI-Q) and (ii) the PADAM Score Questionnaires. Peripheral venous blood sample was collected from each individual to evaluate his total testosterone hormone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEA) and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) levels. Following this, each volunteer was given a supply of the encapsulated LJ100. These were to be consumed regularly for three consecutive weeks, twice daily, and two capsules per day (100 mg/day). The volunteers were requested to come back for a follow-up after week one and week three. During the follow-up sessions, they were asked to again fill out two sets of questionnaires and provide blood samples for analysis of serum testosterone, SHBG and DHEA.
Results
Questionnaires Analysis
Analysis of the SHI-Questionnaire results have shown that 62% of the cases had either increased or a maximum score after consuming LJ100. Another 24% showed reduction while 14% of the cases showed no change in the score (Figure 1). This indicates that the majority of the volunteers demonstrated an increase in their sexual health satisfaction and performance. Breakdown of the SHI-Questionnaire showed subjects has an increase in sexual desire and the success at the attempts at sexual intercourse.
Figure 1: Effect of LJ100™ consumption on SHI-Q Score
PADAM Analysis
Analysis of the PADAM Score demonstrated that 82% of the cases showed a decrease in total score (decrease is positive effect). There is 91% improvement in the sexual PADAM score component, a 73% improvement in the physical component, and an 82% improvement of psychological component. The vasomotor score showed improvement in 50% of the subjects (Figure 2). The improvements in the first three components of the PADAM score reflects that consumption of LJ100 had resulted in an improvement of their quality of life with regards to their physical, sexual and psychological well being.
Figure 2: Percentage of Improvement or Reduction for Various Components of the PADAM Score
Serum Hormones analysis
Testosterone
Total testosterone levels were not significantly different between those raised (43%) and those declined (39%) in this study (Table 1). This gives an initial impression that LJ100 does not have any effect on steroidogenesis. Considering that almost all the volunteers have normal levels of total testosterone, the feedback system is activated to ensure the testosterone levels are within the individual needs range. In 6 volunteers whose serum total testosterone is low, there is an increase in total testosterone on first and third week as well as improvement in the Quality of Life Scores (SHI-Q and PADAM Score).
DHEA
Analysis of the DHEA showed gradual increase from 26% after 1 week to 47% after 3 weeks. This suggests that LJ100may influence the DHEA production, which subsequently would be aromatized to testosterone (Figure 3).
Figure 3: Percentage of Increment in DHEA level
SHBG Analysis
The results showed that SHBG levels were reduced in 36% of the cases after one week and improved to 66% after 3 weeks. This suggests that LJ100 could have an effect on the production of SHBG (Table 2).
Free Testosterone Index Analysis (FTI)
When the SHBG level declines, the Free Testosterone Index (FTI is calculated as a percentage of the total testosterone against SHBG) goes up. Results demonstrated that the FTI increased in 39% of the subjects after 1 week to 73% after 3 weeks (Table 3)
Conclusion
Increasing testosterone is the key factor in increasing sex drive. Testosterone is the most important of the male sex hormones, known as androgens, produced in the gonads. Testosterone plays a key role in the development and maturity of male sex organs. The hormone promotes secondary sex characteristics, including the appearance of facial hair, sexual desire, and sexual behavior. However, testosterone is not just a sex booster for men. Women also produce testosterone, about 5 to 10 percent the amount produced in men. In woman, this vital hormone also stimulates sex drive and produces heightened sensitivity of erogenous zones.
In this study, the aqueous LJ100 extract has a strong potential in providing sufficient free testosterone to the body as demonstrated by the increase in the free testosterone index between weeks one and three. The high score in the Physical and Sexual Domain of PADAM and the Desire and Sexual Attempts in the SHI-Q score suggests this extract can delivery sexual health effects for both men and women.
The results demonstrated that the circulating androgen concentration affects SHBG synthesis. The increase in DHEA levels (DHEA is a precursor to testosterone) between week 1 and week 3 resulted in elevated testosterone levels that caused a decrease in SHBG levels. It is important to note the any decrease in SHBG levels has an overall effect to increase free testosterone index as indicated in table 3. The results of this study suggest that LJ100 inhibits SHBG allowing more free testosterone to remain in the blood. This additional testosterone stems the aging process, improves energy and sexual function, and helps reduce body fat and reduces the risk factors associated with heart health.
Since this study is just an exploratory study to look into the marketing potential of LJ100, the volunteers were asked about personal feedbacks with regard to the extract. The following responses were received:
48% felt that they are feeling healthy, not easily tired, feeling active and energized.
40% felt easily aroused, increase sexual desire and maintained an erection longer.
16% felt their joints and backache are feeling better.
24% felt warm and easily sweat (sign of better circulation)
8% experience better sleep.
8% felt an improvement in their memory.
20% felt their appetite has improved and their bowel movements are better than before.
References
1.Burkill, IH and Hanif, M; (1930) Malay Village Medicine, The Garden Bulletin Strait Settlements.
2.Ali, JM and Saad, JM (1993); Biochemical effect of Eurycoma Longifolia Jack on the sexual behavior, fertility, sex hormone and glycolysis. Dissertation Paper for Bachelor of Science, Department of Biochemistry, University of Malaya
3.Ang, HH and Sim,MK (1997); Effect of Eurycoma Longifolia Jack on sexual behavior of male rats. Archives of Pharmacal Research (Seoul),20(5),656-58
4.Ang, HH and Sim,MK (1998)[1]; Eurycoma Longifolia Jack and orientation in sexually experiences male rats. Biol and Pharmaceutical Bulletin 21(2);153-55
5.Ang, HH and Sim,MK (1998)[2]; Eurycoma Longifolia Jack increases sexual motivation in sexually naive male rats. Archives of Pharmacal Research (Seoul),21(6),778-81
6.Khamis, ZM and Saad, JM (1993); Dissertation Paper for Bachelor of Science, Department of Biochemistry, University of Malaya.
7.Aminuddin, N; Saad, JM; Hadi, AH and Abdullah, R (1995); The effect of Eurycoma Longifolia extracts on androgen synthesis.
LJ100™ Saliva Testosterone Test
Saliva Testosterone Test of 9 Individuals 26-52 years of age
Dosage 2x2 (50mg/capsules) morning & evening for 10 days
Normal range for athlete 800 = 150ng/dl of blood
Volunteers 1-5 are athletes - data are an average of 3 different studies at different times
Volunteers 6-9 do not exercise on a regular basis
Conclusion
The results demonstrate that 100 mg per day of LJ100 caused an increase in bioavailability testosterone within 10 days. Furthermore, all subjects (athletes and non-athletes) showed a positive increase in testosterone suggesting that LJ100 causes an increase in the free testosterone index.
Effect of LJ100 Tongkat Ali on Anabolic Balance During Endurance Exercise
Talbott S, Talbott J, Negrete J, Jones M, Nichols M, and Roza J. Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Extract on Anabolic Balance During Endurance Exercise. SupplementWatch, Inc. Draper, UT, 84020 USA and Source One Global Partners, Chicago, IL 60611 USA. [email protected]
Eurycoma longifolia, commonly known as “Tongkat Ali” or “Longjack,” is often touted as a testosterone “booster” and marketed to athletes as a training aid and performance enhancer. Rodent studies have shown oral delivery of Eurycoma extract to improve sexual performance and increase serum testosterone levels. Open-label human trials have suggested that Eurycoma extract may help prevent age-associated androgen deficiency, improve sexual function, and increase psychological parameters such as mood, energy, and sense of well-being. The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of Eurycoma longifolia on testosterone and cortisol levels during intense endurance exercise. We used a water-soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia (E) standardized to 22% eurypeptides and 40% glycosaponins. Male subjects (N=30) were recruited from a 24-hour mountain biking event and asked to provide a saliva sample before and after each lap for measurement of cortisol and testosterone by enzyme immunoassay (Salimetrics, State College, PA). Subjects completed 4 laps (14.91 miles/lap) and provided 8 saliva samples over a 24h period. Subjects consumed 100mg of E or a look-alike placebo (P) approximately 30 minutes prior to endurance exercise. Cortisol levels were 32.3% lower in E compared to P (0.552+0.665 versus 0.816+0.775 ug/dL, P < 0.05). Testosterone levels were 16.4% higher in E compared to P (86.72+40.90 versus 72.47+33.77 pg/mL, P < 0.05). These results suggest that Eurycoma longifolia extract may help to maintain normal levels of cortisol (low) and testosterone (high) and thus promote an overall “anabolic” hormonal state (versus a “catabolic” state characterized by elevated cortisol and suppressed testosterone) during intense endurance exercise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRIBESTAN EFFECT ON THE CONCENTRATION OF SOME HORMONES IN THE SERUM OF HEALTHY SUBJECTS
S. Milanov, A. Maleeva, M. Taskov
RIRR - Radioisotope and Radioimmunological Laboratory, Sofia
Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute,
Sofia, Bulgaria
SUMMARY
Tribestan effect has been studied on the serum concentration of hypophyseal hormones, of ACTH, STH, LH, FSH, adrenal hormone aldosterone and cortisol and sex hormones - testosterone and estradiol. The experiments have been carried out on 8 males and 8 females, aged 28 - 45 years of age. The product was perorally administered in a single dose of 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days. Serum samples were withdrawn at 8 a.m. and 12 a.m., prior to and post treatment. The product has been established not to change essentially the concentrations of adrenal hormones and of ACTH. The hypophyseal-gonadal axis however has significantly been affected in the females with predominantly increased concentration of FSH and estradiol and in the males - mainly of LH and the testosterone. The mechanism of that action is presumed to be complicated and realized both by direct effect on gonadal apparatus and by the tropic hormones.
The probable established changes in the concentration of the hormones studied do not get out of the frames of the physiological limits.
The lyophilized extract of Tribulus terrestris, introduced in veterinary practice as TB-68, has pronounced sex-stimulating function. The initial studies of this product showed that it stimulates the spermatogenesis of albino rats (Vankov S., et al., 1973) and enhanced the ovulation of female rats (Vankov S. et al. 1973). Zarkova S. (1976) has also established in rats an increased number of spermatogonia, spermatocytes as well as increase of neutral mucopolysaccharides in seminiferous tubules of the testes. Gendzhev Z. and S. Zarkova, in other experiments (1978) proved the increase of spermatic reserve in the epididymis of rats.
With the view to the need of human medicine of a product stimulating sexual function, Tribestan was formulated on the base of the indicated phytochemical product. It contains saponins of furostanol type (Tomova M. et al., 1978). The first studies of Tribestan confirmed its high sex-stimulating activity in experimental animals (Zarkova S., 1981). Later, the clinical studies established a similar stimulating effect in humans as well (Protich M. at al. 1981). The present study was carried out with a view to throwing light on some aspects of the mechanism of that action of Tribestan, aiming at attaining an effect from the product on the serum concentration of some hypophyseal, sexual and adrenal hormones.
MATERIALS AND METHODS
The experiments were performed on 16 subjects (8 females and 8 males), aged 28-45. All subjects were in good health, without any complaints and good capacity for work. The following schedule was used:
1. The basic levels of hypophysiotropic hormones (ACTH, STH, LH, FSH), of sexual hormones (testosterone and estradiol) and of adrenal hormones (aldosterone and cortisol) were determined. They were determined twice, at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. - one day prior to Tribestan treatment.
2. The treatment with the product was initiated on the following day, which was periodically administered, 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days.
3. After the termination of Tribestan treatment (day sixth after the initiation of the experiment), blood was again withdrawn (at the same hour - 8:00 a.m. and 12 p.m.) for the determination of the concentration of the indicated hormones.
The work proceeded in the following way: after centrifugation of 6 - 8 ml blood, the serum obtained was frozen at 20°C till the day of the determination of hormonal concentration. The determination was performed by radioimmune tests. LH and FSH were determined by the modified method of Midgley A.R., (1967), making use of some kits of Biodata company, Italy and ACTH and STH - according to the method of Berson S.A. and R. S. Yalow (1963). Testosterone was evaluated by the method of William R. H. (1968), and of estradiol by Orezyk G.P. et al. (1974), making use of kits of Sorin Company, Belgium for both hormones. The adrenal hormones cortisol and aldosterone were also determined by kits of that company, making use of Vescei P. (1974) and of William G and R. Hunderwood (1974).
The obtained results were statistically processed by variation analysis, by Student - t test.
RESULTS AND DISCUSSION
As could be seen from Table 1, LH level in the males was elevated with a high significance after the treatment (p < 0.001). The changes affected both samples to the same rate (at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m.). FSH concentration was not affected under the same conditions. The other two hypophyseal hormones, ACTH and STH were not changed.
An insignificant tendency to elevation was observed in STH level (mean values - 2.9 prior to and 3.2 mg/ml post treatment) in some of the cases. The level of sex hormones was strongly affected. Thus testosterone concentration was three-fold (2) increased and that of estradiol - about 1.5 times (Table 1).
Table 1
Hormone Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan
8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.
LH, mIU/ml X 13.0 14.38(1) 37.25 24.75
SX 0.64 0.73 1.01 0.79
Pt 0.001 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 13.38 13.50 13.38 11.38
SX 0.35 0.28 0.35 0.36
Pt >0.5 >0.5
Testosterone, ng % X 628 610 882 845
SX 48 46 35 32
Pt <0.001 <0.001
Estradiol pg/ml X 79 76 133 137.5
SX 3.46 2.24 6.72 5.86
Pt <0.001 <0.001
LH concentration was also increased in females under Tribestan effect. What impressed was that the significance was lower than the first sample. The greatest discrepancy, as compared with the results of the males, was the sharp stimulation of FSH. A strong effect was observed there, which could be explained by blood withdrawal during the early phase of the menstrual cycle, the so-called follicular phase. Estradiol was also strongly affected (Pt < 0.001), whereas testosterone in the females during the early hours of the day was less affected (Table 2).
Table 2
Hormone
Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan
8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.
LH, mIU/ml X 15.25 13.50 17.13 16.88
SX 0.64 0.87 0.73 0.35
Pt 0.02 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 11.00 11.88 17.75 15.25
SX 0.13 0.09 0.71 0.38
Pt 0.001 0.001
Estradiol mIU/ml X 72.13 59.38 77.13 87.50
SX 6.02 5.73 5.47 3.24
Pt 0.5 0.001
The level of adrenal hormone was identically affected both in males and females (Table 3). A significant increase of the concentration was also established though that effect had a relatively low significance (p < 0.05). At the same time, cortisol level was no changed (Table 3).
Table 3
Aldosterone Cortisol
Prior to Post Prior to Post
X 11.59 13.77 8.63 8.63
S 2.52 3.48 2.20 1.92
SX 0.63 0.87 0.55 0.48
Pt 0.05 0.05
The results obtained provided grounds to admit that Tribestan had a pronounced stimulating effect on the secretion of some hormones. The effect on the hormones along the hypophyseal-gonadal axis was particularly well manifested. The effect was manifested both at hypophyseal and gonadal level. Some sexual discrepancies were also established. Thus, FSH was mainly affected in the females. The presence of that hormone is exceptionally important during the follicular phase for the development of the follicle. When its development is stimulated, its secretory ability is also intensified and hence - estradiol level is elevated. Lutenizing hormone is more strongly influenced in the male, which on its part stimulates the secretion of testosterone.
ACTH and cortisol were not changed suggesting that they were not significantly involved in the realization of Tribestan effects. The tendency of stimulation of STH and aldosterone explained the activation of the anabolic processes in the body and general stimulating action of the product. The absence of effect on the level of cortisol showed however that the general tonic action was very strongly manifested.
It should be stressed that the level of the hormones studied did not go out beyond the physiological frames i.e. it did not disturb the physiological mechanisms of hormonal regulation.
References
Vankov S., S. Zarkova, Z. Gendzhev, M. Tomova - Effect of TB-68 on the spermatogenesis in albino rats. Proceeding of the Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 161-163.
Vankov S., S. Zarkova, M. Tomova - TB-68 effect on ovulation of albino rats. Proceedings of Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 165-167.
Gendzhev Z., S. Zarkova - Effect of the phyto-pharmaceutical TB-68 on the number of spermatozoa in epididymis of rat. Med. Archive, 1978, N I, 113-118.
Dimova P., M. Taskov - Comparative enzyme-histological studies of some phyto-products. MBI (at the printer's), 1981.
Zarkova S. - Morphological and histological changes in testes of rat under the effect of TB-68, Med. Archive, 1976, N 4, 49-53.
Protich M., D. Zvetanov, V. Nalbanski, R.Stanislavov, M.Kazarova - Clinical trial of Tribestan on infertile males, MBI (at the printer's).
Tomova M., V. Gyulemetova, S. Zarkova - Author's certificate N 77584 A 61 K 35/1978.
Berson S.A., R. S. Yalow - Immunoassay of protein hormones, The Hormones, Vol. V, Acad. Press., New York, 1963.
Midgley A.R. - Radioimmunoassay for Human, J. Clin. Endocr., 1967, 27, 295.
Orezyk, Gaylo P., Burton v. Caldwell, Harold H. Behrmaan - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay - Ed. B. Jaffe, H. Berhmaan, A6. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 333-343.
Vescei P. - Glicocorticoids: Cortisol Corticosterone - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London 393-412.
William R.H. - Textbook of Endocrinology 4th Edit. Saunder, Philadelphia, 1968.
Williams Gordon H., Richard H. Hunderwood - Methods of Hormon Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 371-390.
Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats.Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG, Prasad RN.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, Singapore 119704, Singapore.
Tribulus terrestris (TT) has long been used in the traditional Chinese and Indian systems of medicine for the treatment of various ailments and is popularly claimed to improve sexual functions in man. Sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure (ICP) were studied in both normal and castrated rats to further understand the role of TT containing protodioscin (PTN) as an aphrodisiac. Adult Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into five groups of 8 each that included distilled water treated (normal and castrated), testosterone treated (normal and castrated, 10 mg/kg body weight, subcutaneously, bi-weekly) and TT treated (castrated, 5 mg/kg body weight, orally once daily). Decreases in body weight, prostate weight and ICP were observed among the castrated groups of rats compared to the intact group. There was an overall reduction in the sexual behaviour parameters in the castrated groups of rats as reflected by decrease in mount and intromission frequencies (MF and IF) and increase in mount, intromission, ejaculation latencies (ML, IL, EL) as well as post-ejaculatory interval (PEI). Compared to the castrated control, treatment of castrated rats (with either testosterone or TT extract) showed increase in prostate weight and ICP that were statistically significant. There was also a mild to moderate improvement of the sexual behaviour parameters as evidenced by increase in MF and IF; decrease in ML, IL and PEI. These results were statistically significant. It is concluded that TT extract appears to possess aphrodisiac activity probably due to androgen increasing property of TT (observed in our earlier study on primates).
The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction - an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat.
Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, 119074 Singapore.
Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Treatment of cyclical mastalgia with a solution containing a Vitex agnus castus extract: results of a placebo- controlled double-blind study.
M Halaska , P Beles , C Gorkow , C Sieder
In a placebo-controlled, randomized, double-blind study the efficacy of a Vitex agnus castus extract-containing solution* (VACS) was investigated in patients suffering from cyclical mastalgia. Patients had mastalgia on at least 5 days in the pre-treatment cycle. During this cycle and during treatment (3 cycles; 2 x 30 drops/day), the intensity of mastalgia was recorded once per cycle using a visual analogue scale (VAS).After one/two treatment cycles, the mean decrease in pain intensity (mm, VAS) was 21.4 mm /33.7 mm in women taking VACS (n= 48) and 10.6 mm/20.3 mm with placebo (n=49). The differences of the VAS-values for VACS were significantly greater than those with placebo (p= 0.018;p= 0.006). After three cycles, the mean VAS-score reduction for women taking VACS was 34.3 mm, a reduction of 'borderline significance' (p= 0.064) on statistical testing compared with placebo (25.7 mm). There was no difference in the frequency of adverse events between both groups (VACS:n = 5; placebo: n= 4). VACS appears effective and was well tolerated and further evaluation of this agent in the treatment of cyclical mastalgia is warranted.
[Effectiveness of Vitex agnus-castus preparations]
C Gorkow , W Wuttke , R W März
The prolactin-inhibiting effect of ACF-preparations, which is due to dopaminergic activities, has been shown in humans too and gives a pharmacological rationale for the clinical effects observed in the different indications (2, 11, 25, 26, 35, 41). Confirmation of efficacy in the treatment of mastalgia has been best endorsed by two recently published double-blind studies conducted according to the principles of GCP (14, 41). One double-blind study, several open and postmarketing surveillance studies have shown that the premenstrual syndrome, or individual symptoms, can be influenced positively (3, 6, 7, 9, 19, 21, 37). Design shortcomings in a second double-blind study should be eliminated in future studies in this indication to improve the body of evidence (18). Hither to there has been one controlled double-blind study of cycle disorders in the case of corpus luteum insufficiency with significant results and a number of non-controlled open studies (1, 4, 15, 16, 20, 24, 26, 27, 32, 35, 36). The high success rates in the open studies indicate therapeutic effects, and it should be possible to reproduce these results under double-blind conditions. The success rates on fertility disorders should be confirmed in controlled double- blind studies (10, 33, 34).
The effects of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1) on prolactin secretion in healthy male subjects.
P G Merz , C Gorkow , A Schrödter , S Rietbrock , C Sieder , D Loew , J S Dericks-Tan , H D Taubert
The effects of three doses of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1)--extracts from 120 mg, 240 mg and 480 mg of drug per day--were examined within the framework of a placebo-controlled clinical study of tolerance and prolactin secretion in 20 healthy male subjects during a period of 14 days. There was good tolerance during the study as regards the following: adverse effects, the effects on blood pressure and heart rate, blood count, Quick's test, clinical chemistry as well as testosterone, FSH and LH values. During each study phase the 24-hour prolactin secretion profile was measured from the penultimate to the final day, and the amount of prolactin release was monitored an hour after TRH stimulation on the last day. A significant increase in the 24-hour profile was registered with the lowest dose in comparison to placebo, the opposite being the case with the higher doses, i.e. a slight reduction. In contrast to the administration of placebo, the 1-hour AUC after TRH stimulation resulted in a significant increase with the lowest dose and a significant reduction with the highest dose. The results suggest effects of the special Agnus castus extract which are dependent on the dose administered and the initial level of prolactin concentration.
English Title: Evidence for estrogen receptor β-selective activity of Vitex agnus-castus and isolated flavones.
Personal Authors: Jarry, H., Spengler, B., Porzel, A., Schmidt, J., Wuttke, W., Christoffel, V.
Author Affiliation: Abteilung für Klinische und Experimentelle Endokrinologie, Universitätsfrauenklinik Göttingen, Robert Koch-Strasse 40, 37075 Göttingen, Germany.
Editors: No editors
Document Title: Planta Medica, 2003 (Vol. 69) (No. 10) 945-947
Abstract:
Recent cell culture experiments indicated that extracts of V. agnus-castus (VAC) may contain yet unidentified phytoestrogens. Estrogenic actions are mediated via oestrogen receptors (ER). To investigate whether VAC compounds bind to the currently known isoforms ERα or ERβ, ligand-binding assays (LBA) were performed. Subtype specific ER-LBA revealed a binding of VAC to ERβ only. To isolate the ERβ-selective compounds, the extract was fractionated by bio-guidance. The flavonoid apigenin was isolated and identified as the most active ERβ-selective phytoestrogen in VAC. Other isolated compounds were vitexin and penduletin. These data demonstrate that the phytoestrogens in VAC are ERβ-selective.
Vitex agnus castus L., - traditional drug and actual indications
Karl Peter Odenthal *
Pharmacology, Experimental Research, Madaus AG, Ostmerheimerstraße 198, D-51101 Köln, Germany
*Correspondence to Karl Peter Odenthal, Pharmacology, Experimental Research, Madaus AG, Ostmerheimerstraße 198, D-51101 Köln, Germany
Abstract
There is a long tradition for the use of different preparations of drugs of Vitex agnus castus in complementary medicine in Europe. The indications in disorders of the female sexual cycle have been confirmed by experimental and clinical results. The activity of hitherto unidentified constituents of the ethanol seed extract could be localized within the pituitary-gonadal axis. Research in pituitary cell assays further elucidated a dopaminergic inhibition of prolactin synthesis and/or release. The effective administration of ethanol seed extracts against mastodynia and symptoms related to female cycle disorders with concomitant hyperprolactinaemia has been documented and awaits further establishment. © 1998 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
Vitex and Dopaminergic Activity
Prolactin secretion from the anterior pituitary is under the dual control of a yet unknown hypothalamic factor which stimulates prolactin release and the catecholamine dopamine which acts as a prolactin inhibiting factor. Several intrinsic (e.g. sleep) and exogenous (e.g. stress) stimuli enhance prolactin release. The prolactin-producing cells of the pituitary, the lactotropes, express the D2 subtype of the dopamine-receptor which is coupled to adenylate cyclase. Activation of the D2 receptor by either dopamine or compounds related in their molecular structure to dopamine reduces the synthesis of cAMP resulting in an inhibition of prolactin secretion. Prolactin has numerous targets in the body, among them the mammary glands and the corpus luteum. While a hyposecretion of prolactin appears to be without pathophysiological consequences, an excessive release of prolactin causes fertility disorders like corpus luteum insufficiency. Premenstrual symptoms (PMS) like breast tenderness might be associated with the s o-called "latent" hypersecretion of prolactin, i.e. in response to a stimulus, the lactotropes release supraphysiological amounts of prolactin. As a consequence the mammary gland tissue is stimulated subchronically which causes the symptom of mastalgia (breast pain). Recent research attention has focussed on the dopaminergic activity of Vitex agnus castus (chaste tree) in an attempt to explain its action in PMS and its general activity in regulating female hormonal function. One German research team reviewed at Munich their work to date in this area. [1] Both clinical and in vitro studies demonstrated a prolactin-inhibiting activity in Vitex, in particular on stimulated prolactin release. In vitro the dopamine-antagonist haloperidol counteracted this effect which confirms the assumption that Vitex contains constituents which inhibit prolactin release via interaction with the D2-subtype of the dopamine receptor. During the bioguided fractionation of Vitex using prolactin release in pituitary cell cultures and binding of test compounds to isolated D2 receptors, it became evident that Vitex contains at least two different types of dopaminergic compounds: hydrophilic, thermolabile dopamine agonists but also lipophilic, more thermostable endocrine active compounds. The latter type of substances could be identified as bicyclic diterpenes. These diterpenes inhibit cAMP-production and thereby prolactin release with a virtually equimolar potency to dopamine. The purification of the hydrophilic dopaminergic principle in Vitex is currently in progress. The same team then went on to describe their assessment of the dopaminergic activity of Vitex products on the German market. [2] Commercially available preparations of Vitex are prepared from the fruits using water/ethanol mixtures as the excipient. The percentage of ethanol in the marketed formulation ranges from 0 to 60%. Therefore, it is very likely that formulations which contain high, low or even no ethanol will also contain different amounts of the prolactin lowering activity. To test this assumption three different lots of nine liquid Vitex preparations commercially available in Germany were bought at a public pharmacy and were examined for their dopaminergic potency in the D2-receptor binding assay (DRBA). The highest ethanol content (v/v) in the formulations was 70%, the lowest 0%. The dopaminergic potency was determined as a [micro]M concentration of dopamine which causes the same displacement in the binding assay as the test product. There was about a 100-fold difference in the dopaminergic potenc y between formulations tested. Since the two most active preparations contained additives, these ingredients were also examined for displacement capacity in the DRBA. None of these additives exerted a significant activity in this assay system. Although it has not been conclusively proven that dopaminergic activity is essential for clinical success with Vitex preparations, these large discrepancies in activity are certainly cause for concern.
References
(1.) Jarry H, Spengler B, Wuttke W at al. Phytotherapy in gynecology; pharmacological rationale for the use of dopaminergic principles. Paper presented at the 3rd International Congress on Phytomedicine, Munich, October 11 to 13,2000 (SL-6a).
(2.) Jarry H, Metten M, Wuttke W. Comparison of the dopaminergic potency of various commercially available Agnus-castus preparations: the need for biological standardization. Paper presented at the 3rd International Congress on Phytomedicine, Munich, October 11 to 13,2000 (SL-6b).
chazk said:
Certificate of Analysis
Tribulus Terrestris Standardized Extract 20% Protodioscin
Batch No: P070401 Manufacturing Date: Apr. 2007
Specification Result
Botanical Name: Tribulus Terrestris Tribulus Terrestris
Common Name: Tribulus Tribulus
Country of Origin: Bulgaria Bulgaria
Part Used: Fruit
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool, dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color Brown Brown
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Characteristic Characteristic
Clarity Fine Powder Fine Powder Form/Texture Fine Powder Fine Powder Extraneous Material None None
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 80 mesh 100% pass 80 mesh
Moisture Content <0.5% 0.37%
Ash Content <0.1% 0.025%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified HPLC HPLC
Active Ingredient Strength 20% Protodioscin 22% Protodioscin
Sulfite Content N/A N/A
Heavy Metals (PPM): (Lead & Mercury) 10ppm Pass 10ppm
Arsenic (PPM) N/A N/A
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <10,000 CFU/gram 9 CFU/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000 CFU/gram Negative
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Organic Solvent Residue Negative Negative
Sterilization Agent/Fumigant/Other Negative Negative
Certificate of Analysis
LJ100 ® Eurycoma Longifolia Freeze Dried Standardized Extract
(22% Bioactive Eurypeptides, 40% Glyco Saponins)
Batch No: LJE-010023 Manufacturing Date: Feb. 2007
Specification Result
Botanical Name: Eurycoma Longifolia
Common Name: Tongkat Ali, Pasak Bumi, LongJack
Country of Origin: Malaysia
Part Used: Root (Wild Crafted)
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool, dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color Yellow –Lt.brown Yellow-Lt. brown
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Bitter Bitter
Form/Texture Fine Powder Fine Powder
Extraneous Material None None
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 200 mesh >95% pass 200 mesh
Moisture Content <4% pass <4%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
>40% Glyco Saponins, Pass >40% Glyco Saponins
>22% EuryPeptides Pass>22% EuryPeptides
Excipients Present None None
Heavy Metals Lead (PPM): < 2 ppm pass<2ppm
Mercury (PPM) <1 ppm pass< 1ppm
Arsenic (PPM) <1 ppm pass<1ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <10,000 CFU/gram pass <3000 CFU/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000 CFU/gram pass <100 CFU/g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Sterilization Agent/Fumigant/Other N/A N/A
Method Patented High Pressure Water Extraction, Filtered at 1-4 micron, Freeze Dried without Maltodextrin or Lactose
LJ100 ® Eurycoma Longifolia Freeze Dried Standardized Extract
(22% Bioactive Eurypeptides, 40% Glyco Saponins)
Batch No: LJE-010023 Manufacturing Date: Feb. 2007
Specification Result
Botanical Name: Eurycoma Longifolia
Common Name: Tongkat Ali, Pasak Bumi, LongJack
Country of Origin: Malaysia
Part Used: Root (Wild Crafted)
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool, dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color Yellow –Lt.brown Yellow-Lt. brown
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Bitter Bitter
Form/Texture Fine Powder Fine Powder
Extraneous Material None None
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 200 mesh >95% pass 200 mesh
Moisture Content <4% pass <4%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
>40% Glyco Saponins, Pass >40% Glyco Saponins
>22% EuryPeptides Pass>22% EuryPeptides
Excipients Present None None
Heavy Metals Lead (PPM): < 2 ppm pass<2ppm
Mercury (PPM) <1 ppm pass< 1ppm
Arsenic (PPM) <1 ppm pass<1ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <10,000 CFU/gram pass <3000 CFU/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000 CFU/gram pass <100 CFU/g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Sterilization Agent/Fumigant/Other N/A N/A
Method Patented High Pressure Water Extraction, Filtered at 1-4 micron, Freeze Dried without Maltodextrin or Lactose
Certificate of Analysis
Chasteberry 0.5%
Batch No. VAC-070301 Manufacturing Date: Mar. 2007
Specifications Results
Botanical Name: Chasteberry
Common Name: Chasteberry
Country of Origin: China
Part Used:
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool, dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color Brown Brown
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Characteristic Characteristic
Form/Texture Fine Powder Fine Powder
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 60~ 80 mesh Pass 60~80 mesh
Moisture Content <5.0% 3.12%
Ash Content <5% 2.4%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified HPLC
Active Ingredient Strength
>35% Vitexin 37.11% Vitexin
>0.5% Agnuside 0.60% Agnuside
6200ppm Aucubin 6200ppm Aucubin
Excipients Present None None
Heavy Metals (PPM)
Lead & Mercury) <20ppm pass<20ppm
Arsenic (PPM)
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G)<10000 CFU/G Pass <1000CFU /G
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/)<1000CFU /G Pass <50CFU/G
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Organic Solvent Residue <20ppm <20ppm
Extract Solvents Alcohol + Water Alcohol + Water
Chasteberry 0.5%
Batch No. VAC-070301 Manufacturing Date: Mar. 2007
Specifications Results
Botanical Name: Chasteberry
Common Name: Chasteberry
Country of Origin: China
Part Used:
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool, dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color Brown Brown
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Characteristic Characteristic
Form/Texture Fine Powder Fine Powder
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 60~ 80 mesh Pass 60~80 mesh
Moisture Content <5.0% 3.12%
Ash Content <5% 2.4%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified HPLC
Active Ingredient Strength
>35% Vitexin 37.11% Vitexin
>0.5% Agnuside 0.60% Agnuside
6200ppm Aucubin 6200ppm Aucubin
Excipients Present None None
Heavy Metals (PPM)
Lead & Mercury) <20ppm pass<20ppmArsenic (PPM)
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G)<10000 CFU/G Pass <1000CFU /G
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/)<1000CFU /G Pass <50CFU/G
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Organic Solvent Residue <20ppm <20ppm
Extract Solvents Alcohol + Water Alcohol + Water
Certificate of Analysis
Guanidino Proponic Acid
Batch No: 061202 Manufacturing Date: Dec. 2006
Specifications Results
Botanical Name: Guanidino Propionic Acid
Common Name: Guanidino Propionic Acid
Country of Origin: China
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool, dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color White(slightly yellow) White(slightly yellow)
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Characteristic Characteristic
Form/Texture Crystalline Powder Crystalline Powder
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size
Moisture Content <1% 0.08%
Ash Content <.3 0.04%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
Total Assay >99% GPA 100.1% GPA
Excipients Present None None
Heavy Metals (PPM): <10ppm pass<10ppm
Arsenic <1ppm pass<1ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <10,000 CFU/g pass <1000 CFU/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000CFU/g pass <100CFU/g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Organic Solvent Residue
Extract Solvents
----------------------------------------------------------------
Certificate of Analysis
L Glutamine Alpha-Ketoglutarate
Batch No:20070316 Manufacturing Date: Mar. 2006
Specification Result
Botanical Name: L Glutamine
Common Name: L-glutamine AKG
Country of Origin: China
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in cool, dry place
Appearance: White Crystalline White Crystalline
Form: Powder Powder
ORGANOLEPTIC
Extraneous Material N/A N/A
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 80 mesh 100% pass 80 mesh
Moisture Content <0.5% MAX 0.17%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
Assay by HPLC >98.0% 98.29
L-Glutamine 58.8-71.8% 64.6%
AKG 29.5-35.9% 32%
Specific Rotation 20◦-24◦ +23.69◦
Residue on Ignition 0.1% MAX 0.02%
Heavy Metals (PPM): (Lead & Mercury) <10 ppm pass <10 ppm
Arsenic (PPM) <3 ppm pass <3 ppm
Chloride <200ppm pass<200ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <100,000 CFU/g pass<1000CFU/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000CFU/g pass<100 CFU/g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Sterilization Agent/Fumigant/Other
Method
Guanidino Proponic Acid
Batch No: 061202 Manufacturing Date: Dec. 2006
Specifications Results
Botanical Name: Guanidino Propionic Acid
Common Name: Guanidino Propionic Acid
Country of Origin: China
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool, dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color White(slightly yellow) White(slightly yellow)
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Characteristic Characteristic
Form/Texture Crystalline Powder Crystalline Powder
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size
Moisture Content <1% 0.08%
Ash Content <.3 0.04%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
Total Assay >99% GPA 100.1% GPA
Excipients Present None None
Heavy Metals (PPM): <10ppm pass<10ppm
Arsenic <1ppm pass<1ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <10,000 CFU/g pass <1000 CFU/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000CFU/g pass <100CFU/g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Organic Solvent Residue
Extract Solvents
----------------------------------------------------------------
Certificate of Analysis
L Glutamine Alpha-Ketoglutarate
Batch No:20070316 Manufacturing Date: Mar. 2006
Specification Result
Botanical Name: L Glutamine
Common Name: L-glutamine AKG
Country of Origin: China
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in cool, dry place
Appearance: White Crystalline White Crystalline
Form: Powder Powder
ORGANOLEPTIC
Extraneous Material N/A N/A
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 80 mesh 100% pass 80 mesh
Moisture Content <0.5% MAX 0.17%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
Assay by HPLC >98.0% 98.29
L-Glutamine 58.8-71.8% 64.6%
AKG 29.5-35.9% 32%
Specific Rotation 20◦-24◦ +23.69◦
Residue on Ignition 0.1% MAX 0.02%
Heavy Metals (PPM): (Lead & Mercury) <10 ppm pass <10 ppm
Arsenic (PPM) <3 ppm pass <3 ppm
Chloride <200ppm pass<200ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <100,000 CFU/g pass<1000CFU/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000CFU/g pass<100 CFU/g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Sterilization Agent/Fumigant/Other
Method
Certificate of Analysis
Cinnulin PF
(Cinnamon Extract)
Batch No.0337013 Manufacturing Date: Mar. 2007
Specifications Results
Botanical Name: Cinnamomum Burmunni Nees
Common Name: Cinnulin PF
Country of Origin: Indonesia
Part Used: Bark (Dried 100% Natural)
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color Reddish Brown Reddish Brown
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Characteristic Characteristic
Clarity Characteristic Characteristic
Form/Texture Fine Powder Fine Powder
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 80 mesh >90% through 80 mesh
Moisture Content <6% 1.36%
Ash Content <10% 6.21%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
Assay (Mfr-polymer count) >3% >3%(HPLC)
Assay (INI-type A Polymers) >3% 4.29%(HPLC)
Heavy Metals (PPM): <10ppm pass<10ppm
Lead <2ppm pass<2ppm
Mercury <1ppm pass<1ppm
Arsenic (PPM) <1ppm pass<1ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <10,000/g pass<3000/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000 /g pass<500 /g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform <10cfu/g Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Organic Solvent Residue
Extract Solvents Water Water
Cinnulin PF
(Cinnamon Extract)
Batch No.0337013 Manufacturing Date: Mar. 2007
Specifications Results
Botanical Name: Cinnamomum Burmunni Nees
Common Name: Cinnulin PF
Country of Origin: Indonesia
Part Used: Bark (Dried 100% Natural)
Shelf Life: 2 years if stored in a cool dry place
ORGANOLEPTIC
Color Reddish Brown Reddish Brown
Odor Characteristic Characteristic
Flavor Characteristic Characteristic
Clarity Characteristic Characteristic
Form/Texture Fine Powder Fine Powder
CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS
Average Mesh Size 80 mesh >90% through 80 mesh
Moisture Content <6% 1.36%
Ash Content <10% 6.21%
TLC, HPLC, GC, or IR Verified
Active Ingredient Strength
Assay (Mfr-polymer count) >3% >3%(HPLC)
Assay (INI-type A Polymers) >3% 4.29%(HPLC)
Heavy Metals (PPM): <10ppm pass<10ppm
Lead <2ppm pass<2ppm
Mercury <1ppm pass<1ppm
Arsenic (PPM) <1ppm pass<1ppm
MICROBIAL EVALUATION
Aerobic Plate Count (CFU/G) <10,000/g pass<3000/g
Yeast and Mold Count (CFU/G) <1000 /g pass<500 /g
E. Coli Negative Negative
Coliform <10cfu/g Negative
Salmonella Negative Negative
Staphylococcus Aureus Negative Negative
Streptococci Negative Negative
PRODUCT TREATMENT
Organic Solvent Residue
Extract Solvents Water Water
chazk said:
honestly bro, you'd be hard pressed to find any supplement that has had a double-blind placebo controlled study done on it. They don't have to. They don't want to shell out the money to either. They can usually find some studies (usually done in countries other than the USA) on the individual ingredients (as Ross has demonstrated). So yeah, as long as what's in the pills you're taking is identical to what was used in the studies, you may or may not see the same or similar results.
chazk
New member
ceo said:
So should ross's ad read
(Most Users) can easily expect to put on 5-10 pounds within 4 weeks or (similar results), and continued gains thereafter. The gains experienced on AndroGenerator are dry and hard, as the user will not experience any water-retention at all."
instead of
Users can easily expect to put on 5-10 pounds within 4 weeks, and continued gains thereafter. The gains experienced on AndroGenerator are dry and hard, as the user will not experience any water-retention at all."
As to avoid any misadvertising ?
Also I did not see a disclaimer at the bottom
that results will vary per user ? Hell not even a FDA required disclaimer maybe that is on his website?
Ross said:
I'm probably the biggest skeptic. Do you think the fact that I am doing DC style training and eating 500 grams of protein/day, and have already gained a solid 10 lbs since I started in November, would make it hard to determine that if I did make good gains during that time period, they were solely due to your products? Also, I tend to gain weight in spurts. I gained the first half of these 10 lbs. in the first 6 or so weeks, the next half came in a similar spurt a few weeks after that. I'm about due for another spurt at this rate (I hope)!
I guess either way it couldn't hurt and may just help huh?
I already take a lot of other (OTC/herbal) stuff, so why not.
I will honestly report the results though, if you want to send me the products.
ceo said:I'm probably the biggest skeptic. Do you think the fact that I am doing DC style training and eating 500 grams of protein/day, and have already gained a solid 10 lbs since I started in November, would make it hard to determine that if I did make good gains during that time period, they were solely due to your products? Also, I tend to gain weight in spurts. I gained the first half of these 10 lbs. in the first 6 or so weeks, the next half came in a similar spurt a few weeks after that. I'm about due for another spurt at this rate (I hope)!
I guess either way it couldn't hurt and may just help huh?
I already take a lot of other (OTC/herbal) stuff, so why not.
I will honestly report the results though, if you want to send me the products.
No matter what phase you're in, AndroGenerator and Omnibolic will produce excellent results.
I will send 1 of each so you can run the STACK.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
So he can run HALF a stack, doesnt one bottle only last TWO weeks?
-Legacy
-Legacy
needtogetaas
New member
One of them an way. I will give you that lol.ceo said:I'm probably the biggest skeptic. Do you think the fact that I am doing DC style training and eating 500 grams of protein/day, and have already gained a solid 10 lbs since I started in November, would make it hard to determine that if I did make good gains during that time period, they were solely due to your products? Also, I tend to gain weight in spurts. I gained the first half of these 10 lbs. in the first 6 or so weeks, the next half came in a similar spurt a few weeks after that. I'm about due for another spurt at this rate (I hope)!
I guess either way it couldn't hurt and may just help huh?
I already take a lot of other (OTC/herbal) stuff, so why not.
I will honestly report the results though, if you want to send me the products.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
^^^ AGREED, I might have the BIGGEST place filled lol
-Legacy
-Legacy
MichaelScott
New member
lol, go get em sist
can't believe this stuff has finally made its way over here ****. well, i never knew ross; so i'm gonna take a neutral side in all this and watch the fireworks for a while. 
Last edited by a moderator:
chazk
New member
Posted on another board
*********************************************************
Supreme Sports
Board Sponsor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,524
*Serving LEGAL PAPERS to any member making fraudulent statements or claims*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough is enough, I have spoken with my lawyers and here is how we are going to play this game from now on...
**ANY MEMBER MAKING A POTENTIALLY FRAUDULENT CLAIM OR STATEMENT AGAINST SUPREME SPORTS ENHANCEMENTS OR OUR PRODUCTS WILL FACE FULL LEGAL ACTION.
Therefore, any claim or statement that any member makes regarding the credibility of Supreme Sports Enhancements or the effectiveness of AndroGenerator, will be subject to strict evaluation. If these such claims are determined to be false, all guilty parties will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
All previous statements and claims made by the accusing parties have been recorded for legal purposes.
*******************************************************
So TheRoss can claim guys will gain 5-10lbs in 4 weeks , yet if someone claims they used the product and did not gain 5-10lbs ROSS threatens to sue them if they post about it ? What kind of a sponsor is that?
*********************************************************
Supreme Sports
Board Sponsor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,524
*Serving LEGAL PAPERS to any member making fraudulent statements or claims*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough is enough, I have spoken with my lawyers and here is how we are going to play this game from now on...
**ANY MEMBER MAKING A POTENTIALLY FRAUDULENT CLAIM OR STATEMENT AGAINST SUPREME SPORTS ENHANCEMENTS OR OUR PRODUCTS WILL FACE FULL LEGAL ACTION.
Therefore, any claim or statement that any member makes regarding the credibility of Supreme Sports Enhancements or the effectiveness of AndroGenerator, will be subject to strict evaluation. If these such claims are determined to be false, all guilty parties will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
All previous statements and claims made by the accusing parties have been recorded for legal purposes.
*******************************************************
So TheRoss can claim guys will gain 5-10lbs in 4 weeks , yet if someone claims they used the product and did not gain 5-10lbs ROSS threatens to sue them if they post about it ? What kind of a sponsor is that?
Ross, I'm not one to sit and discredit people, and have backed you up earlier in this very thread.
What these guys are saying is that 5-10lbs of lean imuscle in 4 weeks is absolutely impossible even with the greatest combination and dose of steroids of any kind.
Saying that you will gain 5-10lbs more lean mass in 4 weeks is absolutely out of the question with any supplement of any kind.
You still continue to say that "results speak for themselves" etc. and the fact is, there is not one person in the world that has ever gained that much solid muscle tissue in such a short amount of time. It doesn't happen. As you continue to back up claims of extra-terrestrial results, you further make people doubt you. The fact that you claimed it builds that much muscle in the first place is ludicrous.
We all know that this product doesn't work like you say it does (as far as muscle gains are concerned), even you, and yet continuing to back it up even though you know it's an incorrect claim. That's what gets me man. We call you on it, and you keep pushing it.
What these guys are saying is that 5-10lbs of lean imuscle in 4 weeks is absolutely impossible even with the greatest combination and dose of steroids of any kind.
Saying that you will gain 5-10lbs more lean mass in 4 weeks is absolutely out of the question with any supplement of any kind.
You still continue to say that "results speak for themselves" etc. and the fact is, there is not one person in the world that has ever gained that much solid muscle tissue in such a short amount of time. It doesn't happen. As you continue to back up claims of extra-terrestrial results, you further make people doubt you. The fact that you claimed it builds that much muscle in the first place is ludicrous.
We all know that this product doesn't work like you say it does (as far as muscle gains are concerned), even you, and yet continuing to back it up even though you know it's an incorrect claim. That's what gets me man. We call you on it, and you keep pushing it.
dabuffguy said:Ross, I'm not one to sit and discredit people, and have backed you up earlier in this very thread.
What these guys are saying is that 5-10lbs of lean imuscle in 4 weeks is absolutely impossible even with the greatest combination and dose of steroids of any kind.
Saying that you will gain 5-10lbs more lean mass in 4 weeks is absolutely out of the question with any supplement of any kind.
You still continue to say that "results speak for themselves" etc. and the fact is, there is not one person in the world that has ever gained that much solid muscle tissue in such a short amount of time. It doesn't happen. As you continue to back up claims of extra-terrestrial results, you further make people doubt you. The fact that you claimed it builds that much muscle in the first place is ludicrous.
We all know that this product doesn't work like you say it does (as far as muscle gains are concerned), even you, and yet continuing to back it up even though you know it's an incorrect claim. That's what gets me man. We call you on it, and you keep pushing it.
What on EARTH are you talking about?! 5lbs in 4 weeks is NOTHING! I can do that with Creatine!
Goto www.Omnibolic.com and check out the FORUMS, EVERYONE HAS INSANEEEE RESULTS. You can also just do a GOOGLE or go to OLM or M&M and see what kind of gains people are making.
Like I said, RESULTS speak for themselves. We do have MANY skeptics and many haters, but once you try you will be a believer.
chazk
New member
Ross said:
YOU can do that with creatine ROSS. I know guys that have taken 20 grams of creatine for a week (4 servings 5 grams each with dextrose )then 10 grams a day and gained nothing in 4 weeks time other then some strenght.
Not every one responds to creatine some do some do not.
To lump every creatine user or androgenorator user will gain 5-10lbs of lean muscle tissue in less then 4 weeks is misadvertising
Ross said:
This is what I am talking about. that's total bull crap.
LOL, you must be on crack! If you believe that 5 lbs in 4 weeks on creatine is solid muscle, you are smokin rocks. Creatine makes you retain water like a bitch, not grow muscle at steroid like results pace. All this ridiculous claim-making is making you less and less credible. I take creatine and gained 7 lbs in 8 weeks, and as soon as i stopped taking it I dropped 5 lbs....of water....in about 3 days.
shit, steroids don't give you 5 solid pounds of muscle in 4 weeks. most take 2-3weeks to kick in, and after that, 1 lb of solid muscle a week is "INSANEEEE RESULTS". Any AAS user will tell you that gaining 10 solid lbs of muscle on a 12 week cycle is a damn good cycle, near impossible.
dabuffguy said:
Creatine builds MUSCLE--FACT
Creatine will draw water into the muscle cells, providing an increased protein synthesis, increased nutrient and glycogen storage, and greater nitrogen retention. This muscle cell "swelling effect" is NOT to be confused with subcantaneous water retention which will blur definition and cause bloating.
Granted, the WEIGHT GAIN that creatine produces in a 4-6 week period is not ENTIRELY muscle, but you can be DAMN sure that at least 5lbs of it IS muscle mass.
As for AndroGenerator, CEEM is only ONE of it's secondary ingredients, it isn't even part of the primary forumla.
AndroGenerator WORKS!
Users can EASILY expect 5lbs of muscle in one cycle..at LEAST!
chazk
New member
Ross said:Creatine builds MUSCLE--FACT
Creatine will draw water into the muscle cells, providing an increased protein synthesis, increased nutrient and glycogen storage, and greater nitrogen retention. This muscle cell "swelling effect" is NOT to be confused with subcantaneous water retention which will blur definition and cause bloating.
Granted, the WEIGHT GAIN that creatine produces in a 4-6 week period is not ENTIRELY muscle, but you can be DAMN sure that at least 5lbs of it IS muscle mass.
As for AndroGenerator, CEEM is only ONE of it's secondary ingredients, it isn't even part of the primary forumla.
AndroGenerator WORKS!
Are you willing to back your 5lb to 10lb claims in a legal binding contract and face criminal punishment and civil damages from your own pocket ( not the companies ) if found guilty.
Or will you point to the bottle and say " see this FDA disclaimer this product does not have to do anything "
chazk
New member
Ross said:
The offer is tempting. I like a man who is will put is supplements where his mouth is...
For that offer , I have no beef with you. I'll lay off and not post any more things that might be negative in this thread.
But actually I respect you a little more then before, that you are willing to share a product you feel works let them be the judge.
I have taken so many things over the years back from 1995 to 2008 ( 13 years ) so I am a natural skeptic.
Let me think it over.
Ross said:Creatine builds MUSCLE--FACT
Creatine will draw water into the muscle cells, providing an increased protein synthesis, increased nutrient and glycogen storage, and greater nitrogen retention. This muscle cell "swelling effect" is NOT to be confused with subcantaneous water retention which will blur definition and cause bloating.
Granted, the WEIGHT GAIN that creatine produces in a 4-6 week period is not ENTIRELY muscle, but you can be DAMN sure that at least 5lbs of it IS muscle mass.
As for AndroGenerator, CEEM is only ONE of it's secondary ingredients, it isn't even part of the primary forumla.
AndroGenerator WORKS!
I know for damn sure that creatine never has, and never will result in 5 lbs of sold muscle mass in 4 weeks.
Again, these claims are wildly exxagerated. c'mon man, stop bullshitting me, and everyone else including yourself. It's sad really.
I'll become a sponsor and sell muscletech products, lol, and swear with my life that they produce 15 lbs of muscle in 6 weeks. Then me and you can be best friends.
needtogetaas
New member
Nice.Ross said:
needtogetaas
New member
Ross is ok.chazk said:
Donnie Darko
Lurking Around
I originally posted the following in the 2 free omnibolics thread, but meant the following for this thread, but I figure in both threads would be okay.
________________________________________________________________________
I remember reading in this thread that BB was bashing Ross or his products, however, BBdotcom has similar write-ups on the same or most of the same ingredients in their articles. They may not state numbers or percentages, but even they use claims such as "drastic, dramatic, etc..." Several years ago, Syntrax came out with a product that contained mainly Ecdysterone and touted it similarly and I had always considered Syntrax as good. Why not give Ross's products a shot? I think needto mentioned that he'd like to see threads that go on for pages concerning my products, but I tend to be squeamish about conflict. Nothing can do the same thing that steroids can do, but in some respects, legal supplements do have great advantages if you don't like being sodomized by a cell mate named Bubba for instance.
I know that ceo doesn't particularly ascribe much to some or alot of the products sold here at EF because he seems like someone who prefers to hit his genetic limit more naturally. Everyone with solid discipline and who know their bodies really well, can get those results, but there are always people in the world who want to get there a little more quickly. Some want to get there more quickly and do so with steroids, and some want to get there more quickly, but more safely (either legally or for health reasons). As long as we can help people get to their limits more quickly without harming them, then that is why we are here...well...that and make money too (can't lie about that since we all have to eat and try to make a living doing what we enjoy).
Aside from any claim that he or I or anyone would ever make, research at least the products if nothing else for what they can do without anyone tell you what they say their own products can do. I know that not everyone would read the Bible, but it does have some very good wisdom in it from time to time and that would be like what Paul said about how he wished everyone was like the Bereans....searching the scriptures daily to see if someone's claims are true. My own fat loss products won't necessarily work like I would claim them to work if people take them, sit on the butts all day and eat pork like it was their patriotic obligation.
Give his stuff a try and post your own results. Give my stuff a try and post your own results. I imagine that every sponsor on this board started off with people being a little leary about their products at first.
________________________________________________________________________
I remember reading in this thread that BB was bashing Ross or his products, however, BBdotcom has similar write-ups on the same or most of the same ingredients in their articles. They may not state numbers or percentages, but even they use claims such as "drastic, dramatic, etc..." Several years ago, Syntrax came out with a product that contained mainly Ecdysterone and touted it similarly and I had always considered Syntrax as good. Why not give Ross's products a shot? I think needto mentioned that he'd like to see threads that go on for pages concerning my products, but I tend to be squeamish about conflict. Nothing can do the same thing that steroids can do, but in some respects, legal supplements do have great advantages if you don't like being sodomized by a cell mate named Bubba for instance.
I know that ceo doesn't particularly ascribe much to some or alot of the products sold here at EF because he seems like someone who prefers to hit his genetic limit more naturally. Everyone with solid discipline and who know their bodies really well, can get those results, but there are always people in the world who want to get there a little more quickly. Some want to get there more quickly and do so with steroids, and some want to get there more quickly, but more safely (either legally or for health reasons). As long as we can help people get to their limits more quickly without harming them, then that is why we are here...well...that and make money too (can't lie about that since we all have to eat and try to make a living doing what we enjoy).
Aside from any claim that he or I or anyone would ever make, research at least the products if nothing else for what they can do without anyone tell you what they say their own products can do. I know that not everyone would read the Bible, but it does have some very good wisdom in it from time to time and that would be like what Paul said about how he wished everyone was like the Bereans....searching the scriptures daily to see if someone's claims are true. My own fat loss products won't necessarily work like I would claim them to work if people take them, sit on the butts all day and eat pork like it was their patriotic obligation.
Give his stuff a try and post your own results. Give my stuff a try and post your own results. I imagine that every sponsor on this board started off with people being a little leary about their products at first.
needtogetaas
New member
Holy fucking shit now thats what the fuck I am talking about. Donnie getting down to fucking business.Donnie Darko said:
I think I am going to cry I am so happy.
Donnie Darko said:
Oh, I take my fair share of supps: Gluc/chondr; cissus; nettle root extract; quercetin; bromelain; policosanol; phosphatidlyserine; probiotics; psylluim husk; milk thistle; waxy maize; bcaa's; creatine; glutamine peptides; copper; saw palmetto; multi-vitamin/mineral; fish/flax/olive/grapeseed/barage oils; whey isolate protein of course...
maybe some more too...that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
For the record, I've already told Ross I'd take him up on his offer to send me his products and I will report back with the results.
needtogetaas
New member
You fucking closet sup junky.ceo said:
Donnie Darko
Lurking Around
ceo said:
Holy crap! You're a walking pharmacy! J/K. I know that you mentioned taking alot of herbal supps and multivitamins before. What I was talking about was alot of the things that we sponsors sell.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
Sounds almost like my dresser:
Multi/flax/amp02/lipo/rawmcc/eca/phyto-test/cla/endoAmp/toco8/dermacrine/sustain-alpha/Waxy-Maize
Thats JUST MY DRESSER!
-Legacy
Multi/flax/amp02/lipo/rawmcc/eca/phyto-test/cla/endoAmp/toco8/dermacrine/sustain-alpha/Waxy-Maize
Thats JUST MY DRESSER!
-Legacy
needtogetaas
New member
I got more sups then you can shake a stick at.
Donnie Darko said:
I've taken Green Tea Extract before too.
I don't take it regularly as I don't need to drop fat, and I don't have to work too hard to keep it off. I can keep fat off just fine through diet manipulation, but if I want to get real lean (say I'm going to hit a nice beach on vacation), a little GTE and I'm good to go!
For those skeptical of Ross's products and claims (and I'm one of 'em), the best arguments would probably come from actually reading the full studies he's posted. Abstracts can be misleading -- especially when studies are done on obese geriactric pygmie monkeys and made to look like they have some awesome effect on normal, healthy humans. Always look at the methodology used; if an abstract doesn't explicitly mention it, it's questionable. Looking at the full articles can reveal much.
The journal a product or chemical is studied in reveals much as well. You will never see small-market supplements (or even Muslcetech, for that matter) tested in big, peer-reviewed biochem journals. Moreover, repeatable studies are also important. Remember, there was a big study done many decades ago that showed steroids to have no effect on muscle gains... problem was, it wasn't repeatable.
Being able to read and extract the pertinent information from a study is a valuable skill, and one of the biggest ways advertisers for every product under the sun -- from cereal to shampoo to dietary supplements -- obfuscate data to make things sound better than they really are.
The journal a product or chemical is studied in reveals much as well. You will never see small-market supplements (or even Muslcetech, for that matter) tested in big, peer-reviewed biochem journals. Moreover, repeatable studies are also important. Remember, there was a big study done many decades ago that showed steroids to have no effect on muscle gains... problem was, it wasn't repeatable.
Being able to read and extract the pertinent information from a study is a valuable skill, and one of the biggest ways advertisers for every product under the sun -- from cereal to shampoo to dietary supplements -- obfuscate data to make things sound better than they really are.
samoth said:For those skeptical of Ross's products and claims (and I'm one of 'em), the best arguments would probably come from actually reading the full studies he's posted. Abstracts can be misleading -- especially when studies are done on obese geriactric pygmie monkeys and made to look like they have some awesome effect on normal, healthy humans. Always look at the methodology used; if an abstract doesn't explicitly mention it, it's questionable. Looking at the full articles can reveal much.
The journal a product or chemical is studied in reveals much as well. You will never see small-market supplements (or even Muslcetech, for that matter) tested in big, peer-reviewed biochem journals. Moreover, repeatable studies are also important. Remember, there was a big study done many decades ago that showed steroids to have no effect on muscle gains... problem was, it wasn't repeatable.
Being able to read and extract the pertinent information from a study is a valuable skill, and one of the biggest ways advertisers for every product under the sun -- from cereal to shampoo to dietary supplements -- obfuscate data to make things sound better than they really are.
banned!!!!!!!@
olololol
digitizedsoul
New member
needtogetaas said:
I'm going to have to agree with you at this point needto.
I'm quiet new to this whole "Ross" topic, but i've been reading / watching / etc since I love this community so much and I think i've decided to quit trying to form an opinion and just "get along"
Side note ross i'd love to try your products, and no you don't have to "Give" them to me i'll happily purchase them.
I recently did a log for Primordial Performances dermacrine, phyto test & omega's amp02 / lipoflame. While it was my first attempt at a "log" and I could have done a bit better job i'd happily do one here on the board for your products.
To be honest I don't care if I gain 4oz's of mass or 4lbs. GAINING IS GAINING PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!
When you bust a nut, do you complain about its effectiveness? Weeeell.... I only got 5 ropes this time instead of 40 in 5 seconds like viagra claimed. DAMNIT! No? You sit back and sigh a sigh of relief cuz you just busted a nut! BUSTING IS BUSTING just like GAINING IS GAINING!
digitizedsoul
New member
Donnie Darko said:
DJLegacy2k1
New member
Gaining is gaining....but when your PAYING for a supp it damn well better do more than 4oz is the point. People dont want to waste money trying to obtain nonrealistic goals, because the sup company made claims that they cant back.
If you do a log for ROSS, PLEASE keep your dosing THE SAME THE WHOLE TIME and please dont start adding 4 other compounds, it ruins the log.
But it was your first log and you can now learn the best way to do it!
Good Luck!
-Legacy
If you do a log for ROSS, PLEASE keep your dosing THE SAME THE WHOLE TIME and please dont start adding 4 other compounds, it ruins the log.
But it was your first log and you can now learn the best way to do it!
Good Luck!
-Legacy
needtogetaas
New member
I don't like your tone. Have a nice night off.Access said:
This gos. for any one who has something to say about the way the mods are running aas. If you do not like something. Take it to admen. Take it where ever the hell you want but don't even think about taking it to the open aas forum.Got it.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
I got rid of them. We do not bring drama from other boards to this board. I don't let it happen when people talk about the af board or an other board. Ross is acting just fine for some one that has been attacked all day and night.
Stop.
Stop.
needtogetaas
New member
1. If a mod dos something you do not like on aas. Fill out a ticket and complain to admen,or pm another mod,or admen about it. Do not voice your opinion of it on this board. You might get away with it in chat but not here. No if ands or buts about it. We run a nice clean board. We have hard enough jobs as it is. You ma think its easy but its not. I will thank you to not make out jobs harder.
2. I am getting pretty pissed of at the way some of you are acting. Now mava the others mods and myself leave a pretty long slack on the leash around this board. I can see things are getting sloppy though. We can tighten the slacks. Make it hard for us and we can return the favor.
Thanks. Have fun.
2. I am getting pretty pissed of at the way some of you are acting. Now mava the others mods and myself leave a pretty long slack on the leash around this board. I can see things are getting sloppy though. We can tighten the slacks. Make it hard for us and we can return the favor.
Thanks. Have fun.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
He wont be doing it on this board. Thats all we need to know. Push my buttons one more time and its night off for you.
needtogetaas
New member
Never mind. I change my mind. Take the night off.DJLegacy2k1 said:He wont be doing it on this board. Thats all we need to know. Push my buttons one more time and its night off for you.
Mavafanculo
New member
Access said:
no, you sitting at your computer trying to figure out why you cant log on - THATS pathetic .
and when you get back from your little vacation, consider this:
These are the Board rules. the mods dont make them they just enforce them. you dont like the rules, take it up with admin or find a board with rules more to your liking.
needtogetaas
New member
Hi mavaMavafanculo said:
(no homo)
Mavafanculo
New member
needtogetaas said:Hi mava
(no homo)
lol there now you finally got it right
(no homo)needtogetaas
New member
Follow the rules, do as the mods say, and things will be fine.Ross said:
People can say what they want but mava and myself do not play favs. Every one gets treated the same. As you can see I spoke to you also. Thing is I know I don't have to tell you things twice
Man....this turned into a train wreck. I can't believe how some of you are acting.
Yo ross you send the product to me and ill take it and show results week by week. How much I took, what and when Iim eating. Then Ill let ya know if it really works. Ill give it a try but not going to pay for it when I know there are products that do work. I as well have others have wasted thousands of dollars on bullshit. send it to me and Ill let ya know if its bullshit or not.
Donnie Darko
Lurking Around
Daytime Soaps are pathetic drama. I do notice that some people draw "daytime soap" drama around them. Why? It's the internet. So what? Someone mentions some percentages or numbers to market a product? Who cares? If it draws this much attention, then I'm assuming that people who have the energy to bicker and quarrel might be man enough to have the energy to scour all the information off the internet themselves to see if these claims might be credible or at least claims worth trying the product(s). Instead, all I hear is a bunch of crying. Please, don't ever post pictures of yourselves because I really don't want to see the babies.
I won't agree with claims that tend to be empirical numbers or percentages as if God handed down a law to Moses himself, but for the love of all things good and holy.......would you people like me to serve some cheese with your whine? Shit!!!! Get off of your high horses and research things for your own selves. Dear God! Does everyone need to be spoonfed shit only to be spoonfed more shit by others who didn't research spoonfed shit?
Get out there and research some other spoonfed shit or take the product so you can spoonfeed real results. Alot of the arguing is just.......sad really. How many people have actually researched the ingredients of the supplements? How many have just jumped on the back of melodrama rather than spend some effort and time researching for themselves. Don't take Ross's word for anything and don't take my word for anything. We are trying to sell products...we have our own agenda and that agenda is to make a living doing what we enjoy doing. If these things are so important to bicker and quarrel on the internet (and we all know that arguiing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics) then people need to take a step back and examine what really matters in life..............
Do you go to the gym?
Do you want to be fit?
Do you want to accomplish your goals illegally and very quick?
Do you want to accomplish your goals legally and a little more quick?
Do you want to accomplish your goals without sounding like whiny girls who ragged their first time?
Reach your hand deep inside of your trowsers, feel for the balls, cup them, and then raise your free hand into the air and scream, "I AM MAN! I AM NOT A DRAMA QUEEN, BUT I AM A BAD ASS MAN!" This is what I do when I'm about to road rage and the other drivers see that I don't have either hand on the wheel so they get really scared.
I won't agree with claims that tend to be empirical numbers or percentages as if God handed down a law to Moses himself, but for the love of all things good and holy.......would you people like me to serve some cheese with your whine? Shit!!!! Get off of your high horses and research things for your own selves. Dear God! Does everyone need to be spoonfed shit only to be spoonfed more shit by others who didn't research spoonfed shit?
Get out there and research some other spoonfed shit or take the product so you can spoonfeed real results. Alot of the arguing is just.......sad really. How many people have actually researched the ingredients of the supplements? How many have just jumped on the back of melodrama rather than spend some effort and time researching for themselves. Don't take Ross's word for anything and don't take my word for anything. We are trying to sell products...we have our own agenda and that agenda is to make a living doing what we enjoy doing. If these things are so important to bicker and quarrel on the internet (and we all know that arguiing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics) then people need to take a step back and examine what really matters in life..............
Do you go to the gym?
Do you want to be fit?
Do you want to accomplish your goals illegally and very quick?
Do you want to accomplish your goals legally and a little more quick?
Do you want to accomplish your goals without sounding like whiny girls who ragged their first time?
Reach your hand deep inside of your trowsers, feel for the balls, cup them, and then raise your free hand into the air and scream, "I AM MAN! I AM NOT A DRAMA QUEEN, BUT I AM A BAD ASS MAN!" This is what I do when I'm about to road rage and the other drivers see that I don't have either hand on the wheel so they get really scared.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
Id like to know what part of the rules states: "You can not ask a vendor if they will press legal action if you post negative reviews".
Needto Please post the part of the rules that I violated to warrent my "night off".
Thanks
-Legacy
Needto Please post the part of the rules that I violated to warrent my "night off".
Thanks
-Legacy
Mavafanculo
New member
DJLegacy2k1 said:
you see dj its like the legal system. there are laws/rules that are written in the books, and there are doctrines that evolve over time as a result of precedent decisions by judges/mods.
you're violating the Doctrine of "STOP FUCKING BRINGING DRAMA FROM OTHER BOARDS TO THIS BOARD" see post #159
read Donnie's post above. For every sponsor and every product Caveat Emptor. "let the buyer beware". research the ingredients, read the product claims, read any avaialable studies, see what others have to say. then make an informed decision whether you want to buy the product or not.
ask all the questions you want about these or other sponsor products, debate the studies, post your results positive or negative, whatever. Just stop with the bullshit .
its pretty simple. stop the drama or get timed out again. keep doing it and get banned. your choice.
Last edited:
