OK - You win...........

[JKurz1]

Well, I didn't want it to come to this post, but I have to be honest. As you know, I trained during tax season (as a CPA, our busy season is Jan. 1 - April 15th) at 4:30am, 5x a week on an empty tank. Many of you frowned on this and told me It was a dumb idea, but I really had no choice. You also told me to NOT to go back around 4pm to do cardio, because I'd overtrain and I was already skinny enough (6'2...190...8%bf)......well, I didn't listen......and.....I should have........reason being - I lost a TON of strength, a ton of muscle, and motivation was nil. Very well could have been that my diet is so f-ing strict, that I didn't take in enough calories. Might have been because I over did the sets.....20-25 for each bodypart...........I'm not sure, all I know if that my bench dropped from 350 to an embarrassing 275. My weight at one point was 178 and the staple of my diet was 200g of protein, very little fat, and my carbs came from 90% fiberous veggies (3/4 cup of oats in the am, PW shake of 40g of carbs, and a 6oz yam at noon were the only exceptions.)

SO, looking back, I apologize for all the advice that I turned down. Dorain, SC, WB, needsize....you guys were right and karma will be sent.


NOW, HERE'S THE HELP I REALLY NEED............(and I will listen)....can you help me put the mass back on (was once 240)..........I'll post my diet. Thank God I save the gear I have for now, instead of wasting it for the last 3 months......how much longer would you wait? I don't want to take time off, but if you think it's a neccessity, so be it......currently training 5-6 days w/ cardio (very moderate) at least 4 days...........help me!

 

[JKurz1]

Train 430

PW shake 25g whey, 40g dext.

630 -
3/4 CUP OATS
1 scoop protein

930 METRX MEAL REPLACEMENT SHAKE 1/ 1 tb of flax

1200 6 OZ CHICKEN AND 6OZ YAM large SALAD, veggies

230 (precardio) 1 tuna pack, small salad, 1tb of flax

430 cardio - 25 mins, abs, calves

600 - steamed veggies, 6oz chx, meat, etc. - large salad


900 PROTEIN SHAKE W/ SKIM AND EGG WHITES (SLOW DIGESTING)
3-4 cups shelled peanuts, shake has some splenda, some sf syrup (favorite meal)

930 BED

1200AM LOW CARB MEAL BAR (EAS CARB SENSE)

 

[KillahBee]

I will let the experts shine their collective light in this but, did you mean '40g' dextrose, not '4g'? Also I do not think you are eating nearly enough (this is a mass gaining diet right??). what are the macros for this? good luck by the way.

 

[JKurz1]

thnx.....well, I've never counted a calorie, + it would be too difficult with all the veggies etc. I eat, dont really measure them out......takiing a stab, maybe 2,800-3,000 calories?

 

[KillahBee]

thnx.....well, I've never counted a calorie, + it would be too difficult with all the veggies etc. I eat, dont really measure them out......takiing a stab, maybe 2,800-3,000 calories?

you might want to try counting your calories/pro./carbs/fat. it's actually easier than you think and it becomes second nature after a while. once I started counting i found it much easier to make eating plans for myself. try it for a day. you never know, you may discover that your really deficient in a certain area.

 

[JKurz1]

Won't count cals, but I do know a very solid estimate of my protein, fat and carb intake....250-275, 80-100g, 220-250g.

 

[bigdho]

Won't count cals, but I do know a very solid estimate of my protein, fat and carb intake....250-275, 80-100g, 220-250g.

Bro do your self a favor and count everything. Know to the g how many cargs pro fat and calories your getting. that means weighing and measuring
everything you eat. Belive me you will be suprised how much your not eating.That could mean the differance between growing and shrinking.

 

[KillahBee]

Bro do your self a favor and count everything. Know to the g how many cargs pro fat and calories your getting. that means weighing and measuring
everything you eat. Belive me you will be suprised how much your not eating.That could mean the differance between growing and shrinking.

that's what I'm saying. the food we eat is as important (if not more) as the weights we lift. therefore, we should put time and effort into planning our eating habbits, which means calorie counting is pretty much a necessary evil. Sure it takes a little more time to count everything but it gets easier the more you do it. plus, if you are sticking to a pretty consistent day-to-day meal plan, you will only have to know the nutritional info for a handful of foods that you eat everyday.

 

[JKurz1]

very true and I'll get on it today.........any changes you'd make, off the cuff, that you can see from my diet?

 

[Omegasox]

I'm interested in seeing what your calorie count comes out to. I highly doubt you're anywhere near 3,000 but I could be wrong.

 

[KillahBee]

I'm interested in seeing what your calorie count comes out to. I highly doubt you're anywhere near 3,000 but I could be wrong.

me too. If you take out the MRP and bar, it almost looks like my current cutting diet!

 

[BOOEY]

Dude, just eat. You gotta make a strict decision, do you want to bulk up or do you want to stay the same weight? Remember, you can always lose the fat later, but its the necessary evil when bulking. It's hard to get into that mindset, but its something you gotta do if you want to add some serious weight onto your build. Drop the cardio to at most 2 times a week.

 

[Becoming]

Dude, just eat. You gotta make a strict decision, do you want to bulk up or do you want to stay the same weight? Remember, you can always lose the fat later, but its the necessary evil when bulking. It's hard to get into that mindset, but its something you gotta do if you want to add some serious weight onto your build. Drop the cardio to at most 2 times a week.

^^^exactly- dude you better be eating piles of food if you ever want to see 240 again... you are eating too many shakes and not enough real food- stop worrying about carbs and cardio and crap and just start stuffing your face and adjust ratios/calories as needed... like they said- I doubt you are even at 3000cals - you need to be near 5-6000

 

[BOOEY]

To bump what Becoming said, one of the most valuable lessons I learned in the past year was replacing protein shakes with high-quality protein foods. I never thought it would make a difference but it really does. You need to get creative if you're at work for the majority of the day, but it's def crucial

 

[d3track]

ADD IN BREAKFAST
even if its a shake

Train 430

PW shake 25g whey, 40g dext.

630 -
3/4 CUP OATS
1 scoop protein-----if at all possible eggs/steak instead of protien

930 METRX MEAL REPLACEMENT SHAKE 1/ 1 tb of flax----meat n carbs (6-8 oz hamberger w/wild rice)

1200 6 OZ CHICKEN AND 6OZ YAM large SALAD, veggies---8-10oz chicken & yam

230 (precardio) 1 tuna pack, small salad, 1tb of flax

430 cardio - 25 mins, abs, calves

600 - steamed veggies, 6oz chx, meat, etc. - large salad---make sure enough meat n carbs


900 PROTEIN SHAKE W/ SKIM AND EGG WHITES (SLOW DIGESTING)
3-4 cups shelled peanuts, shake has some splenda, some sf syrup (favorite meal)

930 BED

1200AM LOW CARB MEAL BAR (EAS CARB SENSE)

just a suggestion to help get you in the right direction
i'm not a big fan of a lot shakes through the day

 

[crew9]

This is your bulking diet?

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Booey, what changes did you see, switching from protein shakes to solid foods?

 

[JKurz1]

This is your bulking diet?

relax...no it's not my bulking diet...its my current diet to get me through the busy season.....scale hasnt moved in 3 months, so I'm guessing it's my maintenance.......thanks to everyone else for your honest replies and it really will help.....I need to cut back on the cardio, or maybe go a little less intense and eat, eat........as for the shakes? I 100% believe that EVERYONE should have a minimum of 2 shakes a day.........both are crucial times......post-workout and before bed.....I toss in an MRP in the morning because it's fast.....and I'm working..........so, I dont think that's my downfall....it's the rest of the diet, prob. coupled with the overtraining. Can't even tell you the last time I didn't break a sweat in a day.....years..........

 

[NeoSoul]

If i can make 1 suggestion.

I'd drop the cardio down abit, 2 times a week is plenty, especially since your bulking. I tried the bulking phase with 4-5 cardio sessions a week and really didn't gain jack. After i stopped doing cardio everything started to come together, and i was like you, didn't do much activity during the day(lame job)

Like the others said, just eat, you can always loose the weight, keep it clean and fat will be low.

I wish you all the best, keep us updated

 

[JKurz1]

If i can make 1 suggestion.

I'd drop the cardio down abit, 2 times a week is plenty, especially since your bulking. I tried the bulking phase with 4-5 cardio sessions a week and really didn't gain jack. After i stopped doing cardio everything started to come together, and i was like you, didn't do much activity during the day(lame job)

Like the others said, just eat, you can always loose the weight, keep it clean and fat will be low.

I wish you all the best, keep us updated

thnx bro..I really appreciate it.........hard to drop the cardio, wasnt it? Feel fat and lazzy....I know, I know...gotta do it.............no mo cardio......just walk the pooch.....

 

[NeoSoul]

Thats all i do now, since it was gettin frustrating eating and not seeing results i dropped the cardio and now just walk. You'll get use to the felling fat part..lol But when the strength gains come and you notice your looking bigger its all worth it.

 

[JKurz1]

very well said bra - havent seen you around.....what are your stats now? bf%, I think losing the abs will be the hardest part..........

 

[KillahBee]

I think losing the abs will be the hardest part..........

not as hard as getting them....

 

[JKurz1]

not as hard as getting them....

good encouragement!

 

[BOOEY]

Booey, what changes did you see, switching from protein shakes to solid foods?

Gains came quicker .. shakes should not be thrown out, but you shouldn't replace them as your major protein source

 

[whatchutalkinboutwillis]

3 things..........

1. get on the seafood diet for a few months........ meaning SEE FOOD EAT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (high carbs, high protien, lots of water) EAT EAT EAT !!!

2. lose the cardio, but i will say that you can go for a walk like twice/three times a week to keep your heart in check.

3. Get your rest !!! (at least 7-8 hours a night) most guys don't realize that muscle grows when we are sleeeping or at rest.

OK 4 things...

4. more time inbetween working big body parts !!! Hit the high intensity workouts (good poundages) but remember to let your body heal so you do not overtrain.

pretty simple advice works !!! when alot of guys are getting to complicated and not seeing results. read some old school stuff and you will see (eg... arny, zane, haney, columbo) that is all you need to do.

Nuff Said

 

[KillahBee]

3 things..........

1. get on the seafood diet for a few months........ meaning SEE FOOD EAT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (high carbs, high protien, lots of water) EAT EAT EAT !!!

2. lose the cardio, but i will say that you can go for a walk like twice/three times a week to keep your heart in check.

3. Get your rest !!! (at least 7-8 hours a night) most guys don't realize that muscle grows when we are sleeeping or at rest.

OK 4 things...

4. more time inbetween working big body parts !!! Hit the high intensity workouts (good poundages) but remember to let your body heal so you do not overtrain.

pretty simple advice works !!! when alot of guys are getting to complicated and not seeing results. read some old school stuff and you will see (eg... arny, zane, haney, columbo) that is all you need to do.

Nuff Said

very sound advice.

 

[BOOEY]

I agree, if you stress over every little thing, you're more than likely going to get turned off. Simplicity works.

 

[d3track]

Gains came quicker .. shakes should not be thrown out, but you shouldn't replace them as your major protein source

deffinatly

and i'm not crazy about the whole pm shake either
whole food is going to digest slowly, no need to spend money on something thats not giving you something better than a steak, eggs, baked potatoe, salad
that should hold you over just fine for the night

 

[JKurz1]

I agree that shakes should never REPLACE whole, solid foods, except for two times........PW and Pre-bed....I'll keep those...thanks.

 

[du Chaneaux17]

Just follow the advice above and STAY MOTIVATED!!! Don't let something liek this bring you down to where you slack. Just work hard, eat EVERYTHING, and everything will work out for the better bro'

 

[JKurz1]

Just follow the advice above and STAY MOTIVATED!!! Don't let something liek this bring you down to where you slack. Just work hard, eat EVERYTHING, and everything will work out for the better bro'

Eating everything will be difficult, as I can hardly jump (for example) my oats from 3/4th to a full cup, but I will try....bring me down? NEVER! lol......I'm mentally strong....too strong, obviously......thanks for the support bro

 

[JKurz1]

oK...what if I take after Walking beast and post what I ate for the day...I'll keep updating as it progresses and you guys tell me where I'm losing it.......thanks........

Wednesday April 14, 2004

4am Wake, 12oz of h20, ephedrine hcl
430 - Delts and traps - 22 sets including warmup......military, side laterals, front laterals, rear delts, upright rows and shrugs
5:20 - 25g. of whey, 10oz of powerade (ran out of gluc), 10g of glutamine
6:30 - 3/4 cup steel cut, mixed with 2 egg whites, water a 2 packets of splenda
7:00 - 20oz of half coffee half decaf

 

[WalkingBeast]

oK...what if I take after Walking beast and post what I ate for the day...I'll keep updating as it progresses and you guys tell me where I'm losing it.......thanks........

Wednesday April 14, 2004

4am Wake, 12oz of h20, ephedrine hcl
430 - Delts and traps - 22 sets including warmup......military, side laterals, front laterals, rear delts, upright rows and shrugs
5:20 - 25g. of whey, 10oz of powerade (ran out of gluc), 10g of glutamine
6:30 - 3/4 cup steel cut, mixed with 2 egg whites, water a 2 packets of splenda
7:00 - 20oz of half coffee half decaf

Great idea brother!! Thats what its all about brother, experimentation. Youll get back in no time. As you know, I definately agree with willis about the see-food diet. I dont think youll have any problem cutting up once you reach your desired bulk. Keep us updated!!

 

[d3track]

i think you will benifit from getting something in you before you train

 

[JKurz1]

Great idea brother!! Thats what its all about brother, experimentation. Youll get back in no time. As you know, I definately agree with willis about the see-food diet. I dont think youll have any problem cutting up once you reach your desired bulk. Keep us updated!!

Thanks boss......support is appreciated..........can't stomach food before I lift, I realize its a downfall, but this is the last week for training 1st thing! APRIL 15th iis HERE!!!!!!!!!!!


9:15 Myoplex MRP.....3/4 cup of skim, 20oz of H20....1 tb of flax, 16 oz of coffee........

 

[WalkingBeast]

Thanks boss......support is appreciated..........can't stomach food before I lift, I realize its a downfall, but this is the last week for training 1st thing! APRIL 15th iis HERE!!!!!!!!!!!


9:15 Myoplex MRP.....3/4 cup of skim, 20oz of H20....1 tb of flax, 16 oz of coffee........

No problem brother!! Im the same way. If I eat too much before I lift, theres a good chance itll end up on the floor.

 

[d3track]

thats what i thought to

then i started using 1 scoop whey, juice/kool-aid/gatorade before leaving for the gym
big difference for me
now when i dont have those cals, i feel like i'm gonna just drop

 

[BOOEY]

oK...what if I take after Walking beast and post what I ate for the day...I'll keep updating as it progresses and you guys tell me where I'm losing it.......thanks........

Wednesday April 14, 2004

4am Wake, 12oz of h20, ephedrine hcl
430 - Delts and traps - 22 sets including warmup......military, side laterals, front laterals, rear delts, upright rows and shrugs
5:20 - 25g. of whey, 10oz of powerade (ran out of gluc), 10g of glutamine
6:30 - 3/4 cup steel cut, mixed with 2 egg whites, water a 2 packets of splenda
7:00 - 20oz of half coffee half decaf

Are you trying to lose weight or gain?

 

[guldukat]

Well, I didn't want it to come to this post, but I have to be honest. As you know, I trained during tax season (as a CPA, our busy season is Jan. 1 - April 15th) at 4:30am, 5x a week on an empty tank. Many of you frowned on this and told me It was a dumb idea, but I really had no choice. You also told me to NOT to go back around 4pm to do cardio, because I'd overtrain *snip*

I'm sorry about that bor, but kudos: it takes a big man to admit he's less than perfect!

NOW, HERE'S THE HELP I REALLY NEED............(and I will listen)....can you help me put the mass back on (was once 240)..........I'll post my diet. Thank God I save the gear I have for now, instead of wasting it for the last 3 months......how much longer would you wait? I don't want to take time off, but if you think it's a neccessity, so be it......currently training 5-6 days w/ cardio (very moderate) at least 4 days...........help me!

J, I honestly think you should take at least a week off. I know you don't want to do it--can't blame you, I'm stubborn about that too --but it'd do you a world of good. Just chill and eat. The time will pass quickly, and you'll come back a lot stronger.

 

[UA_Iron]

oK...what if I take after Walking beast and post what I ate for the day...I'll keep updating as it progresses and you guys tell me where I'm losing it.......thanks........

Wednesday April 14, 2004

4am Wake, 12oz of h20, ephedrine hcl
430 - Delts and traps - 22 sets including warmup......military, side laterals, front laterals, rear delts, upright rows and shrugs
5:20 - 25g. of whey, 10oz of powerade (ran out of gluc), 10g of glutamine
6:30 - 3/4 cup steel cut, mixed with 2 egg whites, water a 2 packets of splenda
7:00 - 20oz of half coffee half decaf

why the ephedrine if you're trying to put on weight?
I would use whole eggs instead of egg whites.

 

[Dieharder]

for gods sake, eat something, my grandma throws down more than that a day

 

[JKurz1]

thanks for all the support............here's a continuation of the day.......let me know where to make the change

noon - 6oz chicken breast, 6oz yam, large salad w/ broc, cauli.........steamed green beans, few brussel sprouts...

12:15 - cup of skim, 8oz of coffee, splenda

230 - tuna pack (37g of pro), tb of flax, very small salad

4:00 legs for 1 hour

5:30 - steamed veggies, 6oz lean turkey breast, small salad

back to work........

tonight I will have, 2 scoops protein, mixed with a few egg whites and 1 cup skim......

3-4 cups of shelled peanuts, some veggie sticks, ff dill dip and a eas carb sense protein bar if I'm stil lhungry.............

 

[JKurz1]

why the ephedrine if you're trying to put on weight?
I would use whole eggs instead of egg whites.

lol...you ever tried to train at 430 am? lol....

 

[JKurz1]

I'm sorry about that bor, but kudos: it takes a big man to admit he's less than perfect!



J, I honestly think you should take at least a week off. I know you don't want to do it--can't blame you, I'm stubborn about that too --but it'd do you a world of good. Just chill and eat. The time will pass quickly, and you'll come back a lot stronger.

I KNOW you are 100% right.....maybe I'll start with a few days off...........see how it goes........

 

[JKurz1]

for gods sake, eat something, my grandma throws down more than that a day

Hey, why not some CONSTRUCTIVE crisitism there boss........I don't want to be fat like your g-ma....

Why not offer up some decent food substitutes.....you see my outline...........

 

[Dieharder]

lol that is some constructive criticism, EAT MORE. Your meals are sooo small. I would be 150lbs if i ate like that man. EAT EAT EAT, enough with egg whites and carb sense bars, BEEF!! Whole EGGs!! With your workload i dont think you would be putting on much fat anyways. Also, why not some more complex carbs, some brown rice, pasta, potatoes. You are eating so clean and so little that it would be impossible to put on weight. Im sure you are pretty ripped right now, and you seem to have such dedication that i dont think you would let yourself get too fat in the first place.

 

[JKurz1]

lol that is some constructive criticism, EAT MORE. Your meals are sooo small. I would be 150lbs if i ate like that man. EAT EAT EAT, enough with egg whites and carb sense bars, BEEF!! Whole EGGs!! With your workload i dont think you would be putting on much fat anyways. Also, why not some more complex carbs, some brown rice, pasta, potatoes. You are eating so clean and so little that it would be impossible to put on weight. Im sure you are pretty ripped right now, and you seem to have such dedication that i dont think you would let yourself get too fat in the first place.

much appreciated bro.....I know I need to kick myself in the ass and eat......hard getting the hungry/appetite up....Ill get there ..tomorrow it's golden coral for lunch......kick my ass if I puss out.......

 

[Debaser]

I just made a post to another guy on the anabolic board, and I could make almost all the same comments so I'll just cut and paste it, with a few slight edits:

You need to realize how important diet is to training. I'll be willing to bet your training itself is sorely lacking, as well. I subscribe to higher frequency, low volume training myself. I'll have hit the 2 years worth of training mark in a month or two, and will have gone from 165 to a peak of 235 (some fat but mostly muscle). Right now I'm cutting. This is all natural by the way, and I plan on never touching drugs, at least for a few more years (I'm not naive enough to claim that I'll never be tempted by that time).

Forget even isolation exercises. I rarely do them myself, and my arms are one of my better bodyparts. If I were you, I would train something like this:

The scheme will be sets of 8, and failure should only be reached on the last set. This means that the other sets should be very tough, but not brutally so. Once you make all sets of 8, add 5 lbs to the bar. If you don't make all your reps, stay at that weight. Rest 3 minutes or so between sets. Simple enough?

Monday:

Bench Press - 3 x 8
Barbell or hammer machine row (trap emphasis rather than lats) - 3 x 8
Overhead Press - 2 x 8
Parallel grip chinup (use weight assisted machine if not strong enough) - 2 x 8

Wednesday:

Deep squat (below parallel) - 3 x 8
Romanian deadlift - 2 x 8
Calf raises - 3 x 8 (if you must, but I probably wouldn't even do them)
Incline crunches - 2 x 8
Side bends - 2 x 8

Friday:

Repeat Monday

Take the weekend off, and start Monday with the leg day again. So you're always alternating back and forth.

LEARN PROPER FORM. Many of these exercises (especially deep squatting) can be injurious if you neglect your form. Don't cheat on form, you'll regret it.

As for diet, we're shooting for 20 times your bodyweight in calories. This is almost 4000 a day. We're going to go for around a 40% protein, 30% fat and carb ratio. Try and limit your junk intake, but don't be super strict (i.e. get 2 double cheeseburgers from McDonalds, but forget the fries). Protein shakes (and toss in a tablespoon or 2 of extra virgin olive oil for healthful fat and upped calories) will make it easier to meet your caloric goals.

Supplements: A good multivitamin (I use twinlab dualtabs), a Vitamin E liquigel (2 of these a day, again I use twinlab's). Perhaps Vitamin C. I want to keep it fairly simple. Maybe creatine as well, but you should be spending extra money on food instead of supplements.

Once you get in the habit, I guarantee that your weight will EXPLODE if you follow this routine religiously. I wouldn't be surprised if you put on at least 30 lbs in 6 months, with little fat.

If you really want to and won't have it any other way, you can add a set of barbell curls to the first day.

 

[JKurz1]

I understand completely......everyone seems to say the same thing, so it must be right.......I'm just ignorant......I'm so ready to cash in the chips and just slam my sus/deca/t400 that i have sittig in the drawer sine last september..........damn I need a fix.........

 

[needsize]

Your bulking diet looks a lot like my contest one. I gave up trying to eat clean, and now just slam down 50-60 grams of protein with each meal, with as much extra calories as I can fit down my hole. I just find eating clean just doesnt yield enough calories to make any gains for me

 

[WalkingBeast]

Your bulking diet looks a lot like my contest one. I gave up trying to eat clean, and now just slam down 50-60 grams of protein with each meal, with as much extra calories as I can fit down my hole. I just find eating clean just doesnt yield enough calories to make any gains for me

I must agree. The key for me is meeting my protein requirement each day and getting in all the calories I can shove down. I dont discriminate!!

 

[JKurz1]

Your bulking diet looks a lot like my contest one. I gave up trying to eat clean, and now just slam down 50-60 grams of protein with each meal, with as much extra calories as I can fit down my hole. I just find eating clean just doesnt yield enough calories to make any gains for me

thanks bro.....what does you daily regimine look like now? fast food? pizza? or relatively clean?

 

[needsize]

thanks bro.....what does you daily regimine look like now? fast food? pizza? or relatively clean?

definitely not clean, lots of whole eggs,bread, tons of milk. My protein still comes from the same sources, but if i eat 1/2 container of cottage cheese and a glass of milk, thats 50 grams of protein but not many calories. So then I shove in say a peanut butter and jam sandwhich with tons of peanut butter on it, and a few butter tarts(200 calories each)

 

[JKurz1]

looks pretty clean to me bro....cept maybe for the jam, which is hardly a cheat food.....so, you are just saying you eat over and beyond the norm? few ?'s.....do you still eat every 2-3 hours, or more often.....any cardio? Do youi eat late night? Just before bed?

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

Hey bro i just noticed this thread and haven't read it all .i just had to jump in and say i really rate your guts to share this and admit to overdoing it -but it's like the alcoholic final;ly admitting he has a probelm

I hope you bust through this rough patch, when i was seriously overtrained i contented myself with the fact that it is not necessary to find your absolute limit of tolerance and train just beneath it..it is actually better to exercise well within ones recuperation capabilites.

i think you should try a lower volume approach for a while -yuo have nothing to lose and it will get your bench up again faster.

btw.. just off topic i guess but i make a tuna salad with two tins and stir in some spinach or lettuce ,drizzle on some olive oil and pack it up in a plastic tub. I eat two wholewheat rolls with it..it's a nice,easy lunch.

take care bro

 

[needsize]

I eat every 2 hours, for about 7 servings a day. Its definitely not clean at this point, as I am eating party mix, ice cream, etc on top of all my meals, just to add calories

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Needsize, you're just adding unhealthy, non-nutritious calories. What good does that do besides make you fat?

 

[du Chaneaux17]

It's for bulking, taking in a lot of calories and protein and shit, and when contest is coming, eat healthy and lower calories to cut down to definition for a contest. Off the top of my head........

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Right, but the point of bulking is to gain mass. Muscle mass. Not fat. You won't gain muscle by eating Ben & Jerry's and Party Mix.

 

[WalkingBeast]

Right, but the point of bulking is to gain mass. Muscle mass. Not fat. You won't gain muscle by eating Ben & Jerry's and Party Mix.

You wont likely gain muscle without the carbs either, clean or not. Ive tried an almost pure protein diet and lost size. The carbs are necessary, the main thing is getting them in.

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

truth is you can get away with that when on but i wouldnt recommend nattys doing that shit

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

also,needsize is extremely advanced and has to fight/forcefeed to eek out any incredibly difficult gains. Most guys are better suited to eat 500-1000 cals over maintainence of clean foods..with some treats once in a while. Even when bulking this should be done ..means weight gain is minimised and you can bulk harder and longer. You don't have to turn into a fatass when bulking

 

[JKurz1]

I wouldnt agrgue with NS bro....he's obviously got his body down to a science and by telling him he's just gonna get fat, well, bluntly is ignorant..........dorian, tell the nattys how to put on the mass without the added fat..........

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

If you reread my post you will see that i was not talking to needsize,i said he needs to do what he needs to do at his level. I was merely advising others not to copy what an extremely advanced,enhanced athlete does. So please pay closer attention before calling me ignorant

 

[JKurz1]

and please make sure I was talking to you, before crying a river.....It was to Tom and I was supporting your thoughts....sorry...I'll quote next time......





















Ignorant.....lol

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

My bad bro.A thousand apologies

 

[needsize]

DD does have a point, I havent always had to eat like this, in the past clean eating but pretty high calorie was enough, but its just not cutting it anymore. I should have added to, that die to medication for acid reflux, my stomach bloats up pretty easily, and that hurts, which makes it hard to eat enough. The high calorie foods take up less space, but fill the need. Nattys with a high metabolism can get away with it. Your best bet would be slowly starting to bump your calories up, to where you are gaining some weight. But dont stress that they are all clean, its too hard to live like that and really not necessary

 

[JKurz1]

NS - How would you reccommend to someone who is extremely anal about their diet, to add cals? Bumping portions of (meat as an example) from 6oz to 8oz? Adding peanut butter? 3/4 cup oats to full cup?

My biggest prob. is that I eat the same exact thing, everyday, every meal, with veyr little variety and its driving me inssssssssane. You natty right now? Gettn chunky fior the summer?

 

[needsize]

NS - How would you reccommend to someone who is extremely anal about their diet, to add cals? Bumping portions of (meat as an example) from 6oz to 8oz? Adding peanut butter? 3/4 cup oats to full cup?

My biggest prob. is that I eat the same exact thing, everyday, every meal, with veyr little variety and its driving me inssssssssane. You natty right now? Gettn chunky fior the summer?

you could start upping your portions of protein, but also add in extras, peanut butter is a good one, a glass of milk with every meal adds protein and calories, etc

I'm not natty right now, still trying to bulk for another few weeks before I cut down a little to look presentable for bathing suit season

 

[JKurz1]

thats what I'm going to start doing...how much weight are you putting on each week? When will you start to cut? Whats your cycle look like? Sorry for so many questions, but we look up to you bro............also, do you eat a meal right before bed? I think that's one on my major probs...........

 

[Becoming]

Right, but the point of bulking is to gain mass. Muscle mass. Not fat. You won't gain muscle by eating Ben & Jerry's and Party Mix.

Fat is fat = 9 cal per gram
Carbs are carbs = 4 cal per gram...

Your body doesn't discriminate what it can turn into based on the source..

You can't build muscle without enough excess calories...

You will get fat if you eat too many excess calories...

It doesn't matter where those calories come from.

 

[JKurz1]

Fat is fat = 9 cal per gram
Carbs are carbs = 4 cal per gram...

Your body doesn't discriminate what it can turn into based on the source..

You can't build muscle without enough excess calories...

You will get fat if you eat too many excess calories...

It doesn't matter where those calories come from.

Actually, not entirely true......the body would much rather use carbs as it's primary source if available......many theories and diets prove this theory......I, on the other hand, am torn between whom and what to believe.....guess thats part of the learning process.........

 

[Lord_Suston]

IMO add PB to shakes and olive oil/flax oil. To keep lean while bulking I usually do a few sprints to keep fat burning as high as possible.

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

IMO add PB to shakes and olive oil/flax oil. To keep lean while bulking I usually do a few sprints to keep fat burning as high as possible.

All very solid advice,very solid

 

[Dieharder]

anpb to shakes, splurge and drink some 2% milk, etc

 

[WalkingBeast]

truth is you can get away with that when on but i wouldnt recommend nattys doing that shit

I havent been on AAS yet and have been bulking that way for years.

 

[WalkingBeast]

DD does have a point, I havent always had to eat like this, in the past clean eating but pretty high calorie was enough, but its just not cutting it anymore. I should have added to, that die to medication for acid reflux, my stomach bloats up pretty easily, and that hurts, which makes it hard to eat enough. The high calorie foods take up less space, but fill the need. Nattys with a high metabolism can get away with it. Your best bet would be slowly starting to bump your calories up, to where you are gaining some weight. But dont stress that they are all clean, its too hard to live like that and really not necessary

Thats a big part of the reason I eat the way I do also. A digestive condition IBS and some acid reflux (vomitting at times) also. Theres no way I could eat 4lbs of rice a day ontop of other clean foods. I need to get in as much as possible at each meal. So I eat just about anything aslong as Im meeting my daily protein requirements, atleast.

 

[JKurz1]

anpb to shakes, splurge and drink some 2% milk, etc

I use ANPB and/or flax in every shake already..........also toss in some mixed nuts....so I need some more advice.........

 

[JKurz1]

Thats a big part of the reason I eat the way I do also. A digestive condition IBS and some acid reflux (vomitting at times) also. Theres no way I could eat 4lbs of rice a day ontop of other clean foods. I need to get in as much as possible at each meal. So I eat just about anything aslong as Im meeting my daily protein requirements, atleast.

AND, you got some chubbyness there too bro.....no big thang, but that was his point..........

 

[Becoming]

Actually, not entirely true......the body would much rather use carbs as it's primary source if available......many theories and diets prove this theory......I, on the other hand, am torn between whom and what to believe.....guess thats part of the learning process.........

I never said there wasn't a difference between fat and carbs... Hell there is even a difference between different fats and complex vs simple carbs- the point is it does not matter what kind of food they come in...

You worry too much about the minute details that you lose focus on the big picture...

I don't think you are advanced enough to worry about half the minor details you spend so much time considering... hell, you have 6 and 8 oz portions and everything, you are not dieting, you are trying to bulk... just cut off a hunk of meat and eat it...

 

[needsize]

I have a whey shake in milk, along with EFAs right before bed

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

me too NS ..but i use casein.i even have another by the bed in case i wake up in the night...the price of obsession

 

[WalkingBeast]

AND, you got some chubbyness there too bro.....no big thang, but that was his point..........

Its all part of bulking. Try bulking on clean foods only and see what happens. Thought this thread was about admitting you were wrong? You mentioned my name as well. Just giving my input

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

WB you are pretty strong ..i don't know how high you let your bf get..i'm not saying you won't gain some fat bulking..just that for a typical endo/meso eating sweets etc..will accelerate fat gain and leave you bulking less and cutting more bro.

 

[JKurz1]

Its all part of bulking. Try bulking on clean foods only and see what happens. Thought this thread was about admitting you were wrong? You mentioned my name as well. Just giving my input

Hey, bro..I value our opinion big time....I know you got your training down to a science and I like your routines....I just think you need some guidance (like me, just the other side of the spectrum) on your diet.......bulking does not have to equal getting fat.......True, it's certain that you will put on a little excess chub, but keeping it minimal is the key........I like to stay within 2-3%......

 

[needsize]

I planned on staying really lean this year while bulking, but it just didnt work out. I am at around 12% bodyfat, which isnt too bad, I can still see some abs. But as it turned out there was just no way I was going to gain any mass without some fat.

I'm starting to diet mid may, and I figure in 6 weeks I can drop to about 8% bodyfat, which is all I want right now. I want to maintain my mass as size is still my main priority

 

[JKurz1]

I planned on staying really lean this year while bulking, but it just didnt work out. I am at around 12% bodyfat, which isnt too bad, I can still see some abs. But as it turned out there was just no way I was going to gain any mass without some fat.

I'm starting to diet mid may, and I figure in 6 weeks I can drop to about 8% bodyfat, which is all I want right now. I want to maintain my mass as size is still my main priority

boy..never thought I'd see the day that ou were 12%......but, that aint bad at all....you still eating on the clock, or do you just graze all day........are you pretty seditary most of the day? Office job?

 

[Omegasox]

I planned on staying really lean this year while bulking, but it just didnt work out. I am at around 12% bodyfat, which isnt too bad, I can still see some abs. But as it turned out there was just no way I was going to gain any mass without some fat.

I'm starting to diet mid may, and I figure in 6 weeks I can drop to about 8% bodyfat, which is all I want right now. I want to maintain my mass as size is still my main priority

I'm sure you've posted it a million times, but could you throw together what kind of cutting diet you use. Would appreciate it.

 

[JKurz1]

I'm sure you've posted it a million times, but could you throw together what kind of cutting diet you use. Would appreciate it.

Get your own f-ing thread

 

[needsize]

I'm eating pretty much every two hours on the dot, the medication for the acid reflux was making it pretty damn hard, but I think I've got that in control now. My job is social worker, so not much activity there

Actually 12% is typical for offseason for me, too hard to stay leaner, I seem to gain most of it when I finish a cycle, i think my thyroid must shut down
I think I posted this here before, but this is me around 12%

 

[needsize]

omegasox, contest diet was a 40-40-20 split, carbs from potatoes, oatmeal, protein from egg whites, tuna, chicken, whey, and fats from EFAs, about 2500 calories

 

[JKurz1]

and now everything is fair game, right?

Hey, my dad is a shrink here in AKron........make the move, I'll hook u up...........

 

[needsize]

my wife and I have thought about moving to the US, but if we did it would be somewhere nice and warm

 

[JKurz1]

hotter than piss here from June - early Sept............fall and spring are mild and truly scenic......winters SUCK!

 

[needsize]

hotter than piss here from June - early Sept............fall and spring are mild and truly scenic......winters SUCK!

same thing here, summers are crazy hot, spring and fall is nice, and winters suck heavy ass

 

[JKurz1]

so you're used to it bro......come on down.....buffet...my treat............

 

[needsize]

I cant afford to leave the free health care

 

[Omegasox]

omegasox, contest diet was a 40-40-20 split, carbs from potatoes, oatmeal, protein from egg whites, tuna, chicken, whey, and fats from EFAs, about 2500 calories

Thanks bro. And JKurz, settle down, two posts aren't going to ruin your 5 page thread.

 

[WalkingBeast]

Hey, bro..I value our opinion big time....I know you got your training down to a science and I like your routines....I just think you need some guidance (like me, just the other side of the spectrum) on your diet.......bulking does not have to equal getting fat.......True, it's certain that you will put on a little excess chub, but keeping it minimal is the key........I like to stay within 2-3%......

ThanX brother!! Good luck on trying to bulk up at 2-3% BF. Ive never seen anyone gain at that percentage, even those who are spending thousands on anabolics. If you do it, thats damn respectable.