Now that I'm cutting...

[Tom Treutlein]

I'm cutting on the ANPB diet right now. I'm 2 days in, hoping to drop enough weight until I can see my abs. I hope it goes rather quick (2-3 weeks max) so I can get back to bulking. This time, I plan to bulk cleaner and use HST to gain maximum size.

As for now, I'm using DC training to try and gain some extra strength. I figure, size won't come with a caloric defecit, but strength may. Though, if my strength increases, wouldn't size increase slightly regardless?

Anyway, I'm using a DC style split...

Day 1
Incline Bench 11-15 RP
Military Press 11-15 RP
Shrug 1x8 Straight Set
Skull Crusher 15-20 RP
Wide Grip Chin-up 11-15 RP
Deadlift/Row 1x8 Straight Set

Day 2
Dumbbell Curl 15-20 RP
Wrist Curl 1x8 Straight Set
Heel Raise 2x12 Straight Sets
Leg Curl 11-15 RP
Squat 1x8 | 1x20

Not exact DC, but it looked good to me. Abs will be done three times a week, or more if I decide. Probably just three sets to failure or so. I don't feel a need to train them with weight.

Oh, by the by, my long term plan will be to try and maintain my abs or a flatter stomach when bulking this time around, while adding size and strength. I'm planning to do at least a cycle of HST, and if the results are what I hope, then a second. After that, I want to run a DC program, but I don't like the idea of bodyweight x 2 in protein. I feel that's a bit too much, and probably wasted, so I'm not sure what I want to do there.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Yeah, don't respond, that's cool.

 

[Dieharder]

you arent going to drop too much weight in just 3 weeks on anpb, and frankly i think that diet is bullshit. How can one eat peanut butter 6x a day with whey and that be healthy is beyond me. Not to mention, you are going to gain fat back if you go from a diet that most times results in a ketogenic state to a regular diet with carbs. I think you should just start eating clean NOW. Also, if you see strength/size gains from the dc style split, why not keep going? and about the BWx2 in protein, BELIEVE ME, it works. This is coming from someone who bulked up to 195lbs from 175 naturally last year, couldnt put on anymore weight it seemed, then upped the protein and went to 210lbs. Im now 235lbs, 14%bf and i have dc training to thank for it. I really cant think of another routine that i would think of doing EVER again, just maybe modifying it slightly.

 

[JKurz1]

DH - how much did you increase your protein by and how often?

 

[Dieharder]

DH - how much did you increase your protein by and how often?

Well this will probably make it clearer, i was following the "eat your bodyweight in protein" when i first started lifting (about a year and a half ago) and that worked for a while, until i just couldnt get over 195 no matter how much i tried. So i upped protein to at least 300 grams a day, and also started taking in olive oil in my shakes at night (or just cooking chicken breasts in olive oil) I finally hit 210, and stayed between 200-210 for a while. I finally decided fuck this, and began taking in 400 grams a day at the least. There were some days when i would seriously eat 550-600 grams of protein, as well as 7,000 calories. This wasnt an everyday occurence, but i felt it was necessary since i have 2 jobs (one of which is waitering on the weekends, so i only have time to eat like once during an entire shift) and go to school full time. I eat good carbs, mostly around workouts, simple sugars post workout, and a 100 gram protein shake postworkout. I also did an 8 week cycle of 500mg test enth, so that also helped. But i honestly believe that if you want to BULK, you have to EAT, EAT, EAT!!! Fuck the abs for a while, it takes years to build a quality base to cut on, and it takes 2-3months to actually "get ripped" I do absolutely no isolation exercises, besides hamstring curls and calve raises.

I dont think i could say this enough, but there are 3 things you have to do to get big:

EAT like you've never eaten before
REST-no 2 a days, just one 45-60min all out session every other day is all you need, no cardio
COMPOUND MOVEMENTS- Squats, Deads, OHPs, Benches, Dips. Increase your poundages on these every week and there is no need for lateral raises, curls, triceps pushdowns, etc.
AAS-yes these help, and JKurz, i know that you have a few cycles under your belt. You combine AAS, rest, and compound movements, you will gain, there is no way that you cant. This is the point im sure Debaser would make as well. I cant tell you how much it pains me to read your posts, just because i know that you could be making some SICK gains in size and strength

 

[JKurz1]

dont let it pain you bro....trust me, I know....I've been there before (245lbs).....you know my problem...the mind is way too strong and it won't let me......I am solid for awhile, then I feel fat and reduce cals and do cardio, etc........plus, I'm WAYYY tostrict with my diet....I can't even fathom the last time I strayed....I'm talking NOTHING....in years.....every night I eat a few handfulls of peanuts, a homemade protein bar and a solid, thick ass shake (with splenda and some sugarfree syrups) and I fullfill all my cravings...........it's a sick sick sick game.....I know so much...honeslty....ask anyone that knows me. They respect me for how I look, what I do, how strict I am and that makes it even harder....I'M the one at the gym that everyone asks when they have a question, because I know the answers.....partly from you guys and partly on my own.........I read, learn and teach...do I practice what I preach, hardly........but, like I said......it's so much in my head.......I know I could rip up again in a few 6-8 weeks.......but I havent been over 10% in years and I'm beginning to hate it.........I've tossed in the towel sooooo many nights at the gym when the weights don't move for weeks, but guess who's back in the fing gym at 430am the next day? Many can't understand my rationale.....then there are those that are completely envy of me, my development, muscle tone, etc......turst me...I know 6'2 and 190 at 7% all year isnt normal, but it has become a way of life......truly the devil inside.......

 

[Dieharder]

just imagine though, you were 245 at only 11% a few years ago, just imagine how big you could possibly get, then when you cut again in 6-8 weeks, you would look even more massive...

 

[Tom Treutlein]

So jkurz, what do you recommend I do?

DH, what if I don't use AAS, follow DC, and only do compounds? You really think it'd cover the bases?

What would you suggest as a split? Keep in mind, I workout at home.

By a split, I mean what exercises, and which RP ranges should I fall into? Did I get them right?

 

[Tom Treutlein]

By the by, can't I just slowly reintroduce carbs into my diet so I don't rebound? There has to be a way around ANPB diet's downside.

 

[Dieharder]

yes you can slowly reintroduce carbs, but why not just start eating clean now, so that you dont have to drastically change your diet (from anpb to real foods)? Like i said, i trained using DC naturally, only recently did i use AAS, simply because it was easy to get my hands on. Compunds+big eating+rest= success training dc style. I like your exercise selection, although DC advocates a rotation of 3 exercises per bodypart, i like usually only use one or two depending on the bodypart. Your exercise selection is similar to mine, although for upper body i tend to use lower rep ranges, but thats just because i feel as if my upper body responds better to a 6-8 rep range, then rack it, 3 more reps, rack, 2 more...etc. I would throw in close grip benches rather than skullcrushers, and maybe rotate in dips with inclines. Here is what im currently doing:
Mondays
Incline barbell
Standing OHP
CG Bench
wg chins/cg chins
deads/hammer strength rows

Wed
Squats
calve raises
hamstring curls
supinated chins

friday
weighted dips
Standing OHP
CG benches
wg/cg chins
rows/deads.

 

[Dieharder]

almost forgot DO THE EXTREME STRETCHES!!!!! these are soo important!

 

[Tom Treutlein]

You've noticed good results with them?

Is it possible that I train DC style, eat clean and put on minimal fat? Or at least lose my gut while getting bigger still, and maintain a flat stomach. I don't care so much about seeing the abs while bulking as I do appearing in shape. I feel like shit when I have a rounded lower stomach. Did you gain much fat on it, or did you cut out carbs at night and resist a lot of fat gain?

Oh, also...no direct bicep or forearm work I see. Wednesday you do chins instead of curls, huh? I usually like direct forearm and bicep work. What kind of size gains did you get? Inches on the arms and chest? How'd the legs go? Back?

 

[JKurz1]

Guess I'm from the more ol' school type of training whereas I'm much more into the bodybuilding/sculpting/astentically pleasing form of weight training than strength.....I am attempting to gain some solid mass, but where Diehard and I differ is that I train in the 8-12 reps range, 1-2 bodyparts/ day, and 15-20 sets per session. Nothing against the other methods of training, it's just that those guys really care about brute strength and not so much whther they are 6% bf or 16%......nothing wrong with it, just a different approach. HOWEVER, it is pretty damn difficult to gain mass, without gaining strength....that is why I'm strongly considering adapting their theories, with a clean diet, and see what happens.....my suggestion? Try both and see which you prefer-yields the best results for YOU! Not diehard, not me, but you......Hell, I know many dudes that train 2-3 times of week, party hard, eat like shit and come in shreddded and stronger than shit. BUT, the vast majority of people that dont put the effot and time into their diet and training, look like your avg. Joe. When I'm in the office, it's hard to tell that I train. Cept maybe broad shoulders and a defined jaw line, but when it comes to the first warm day of the year, you better believe I'm the first one to strip off the shirt.......

 

[Tom Treutlein]

So, if I was to eat clean, could I gain mass without adding much fat or any? I mean, I don't want to be huge. 200 lbs. at 11% BF, as a figure. Maybe even 190-195. I don't need to be much bigger than that, nor do I want to. How would I go about getting to that size, while keeping my fat in check?

I ask because I see you, JKurz, do just that. 7% BF all year round is insane, but impressive. I'd like to maintain at 12% probably, but no higher than that. Would I do HIIT? Or perhaps 3 days a week walk for 1 hour briskly? I don't know, tell me what you've learned man, because I hate having a gut.

 

[Dieharder]

if you eat clean you can gain mass, although eating clean sometimes doesnt yield enough calories to gain as much mass as possible. I see it as i have a few years to go before i feel like i can comfortably diet down and look bigger. I feel that right now if i dieted, to get down to single digit body fat i would be like 185lbs, and thats way too small for me. Tom, you also have to see that Jkurz was at one point 245lbs and only 11%bf. When he decided he wanted to stay lean, he had a very solid base to start with.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Dude, you can't drop 50 lbs of fat and only go from 14% to 9% bodyfat. You'd definitely be bigger than that, or your current bodyfat is higher.

So by eating clean you mean eating without gaining fat, correct? What would I do to eat clean and keep fat off?

 

[Dieharder]

you have to take in to account some muscle loss. needsize was 180lbs in his avatar at around 5% and he dieted down from 230lbs if i remember correctly. anyways it was just an estimate. Not all 50lbs are going to be fat unless your on a lot of sauce. Eating clean means chicken breasts, tuna, oats, fish, brown rice, vegetables. Its just hard to get that many calories to bulk and eating COMPLETELY clean.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

So milk wouldn't be clean? I'm guessing only water would be consumed?

 

[Dieharder]

it depends, some people react badly to lactose (needsize comes to mind) while others have no problem with it. I tend to get bloated when drinking lots of milk, while i know others who stay very lean, you have to learn how your body will react

 

[needsize]

I drink tons of milk when bulking, I tend to cut it out when cutting to get calories down. I dropped it from the contest diet as I was told it can cause you to hold crap under the skin, that is noticeable at 5% and under.
BTW, I was around 4% in the avatar

 

[Dieharder]

needsize, how hard was it/how long did you stay that lean after your contest? It would seem that staying at such a low bodyfat or any extended period of time would be hard

 

[Dieharder]

cant email you tom, and its too long to send as a PM, so hook me up with ur email address and id be glad to send it...

 

[Tom Treutlein]

[email protected]

 

[needsize]

I didnt maintain my bodyfat after that, getting down to 4% causes such a rebound afterwards it just cant be done. Also, since I killed myself dieting for 4 months with NO cheating, it took a few weeks to get my eating under control afterwards. I find maintaining a pretty lean level like 7-8% isnt too bad, it just requires some attention to diet

 

[Dieharder]

sent it tom.