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NO Testosterone For Newbies

2Thick

2Thick

Elite Mentor
Platinum
EF Logger
Old School post but it is still true

I am taking a stand and making my opinion known to the board.
I believe that test is not necessary until all other types of AS are not giving you good gains.

I will quote World Ananbolic Review, because they make this point well.

"...we recommend that steroid novices stay away from all testosterone compounds. To make it very clear: Those who have never taken steroids do not yet need any testosterone and should wait until later when the "weaker" steroids begin to have little effect."

To begin with, I would like to point out that steroids should not be used by anyone unless they are highly experienced in weightlifting, bodybuilding, or another type of competitive sport that requires year-round training.

Secondly, diet is what really makes the difference in a cycle and not necessarily the dosage of AS.

The reason that gear is scheduled is because most people are not educated enough to use it properly. Legalizing its use will not stop people from using dosages of 1000mg per day. Only education will and most people are not willing to wait the year that it takes to learn all there is to know about AS (plus waiting through the first couple years of using mild dosages with mild AS).

Gear is a long-term commitment and should not be rushed. It is a lifestyle and not a one-time thing.

I would urge newbies to wait until they have enough, knowledge, experience and money.

Test (as with Anadrol) should be saved for later.
 
I saw the thesis, but I think I missed the supporting evidence parts, lol. Why should a newbie not use testosterone?
 
slobberknocker said:
I saw the thesis, but I think I missed the supporting evidence parts, lol. Why should a newbie not use testosterone?
Click to expand...

Seeing that test has more sides and needs exponentially increasing dosage in order to make decent gains, it is not necessary until less potent anabolics such as primo, anavar, eq etc have stopped giving you decent gains.

It is like learning how to run before you learn how to walk. It takes away from your gains in the long run and it increases the chances of negative sides (by going heavy before seeing how your body responds to anabolics in the first place.
 
i am not going to use test on the next cycle....i used test for my frist cycle since i read and read that test/d bol is great a for new steroid user to gain a large amount of mass on his first cycle...
 
While I'm sure you're going to get alot of heat for the no test suggestion.

This part of your post is the one thing that I see on this board all the time
"To begin with, I would like to point out that steroids should not be used by anyone unless they are highly experienced in weightlifting, bodybuilding, or another type of competitive sport that requires year-round training."

This is the biggest mistake I see around here.
 
Recommending 17 aa's before test???? I have to disagree. I also, do not believe that eq or deca should be used without test.

Nautica
 
This is the most ignorant post I've ever seen from a mod. Deca over test because of tests nasty side effects?? And

"needs exponentially increasing dosage in order to make decent gains"

You still believe that every time you do a cycle with test you have to increase the dosage? Seeing as your a mod a lot of people are going to believe this as true, so please try and at least have a clue
 
JonP said:
This is the most ignorant post I've ever seen from a mod. Deca over test because of tests nasty side effects?? And

"needs exponentially increasing dosage in order to make decent gains"

You still believe that every time you do a cycle with test you have to increase the dosage? Seeing as your a mod a lot of people are going to believe this as true, so please try and at least have a clue
Click to expand...

If you are finished acting like a child, please add something to this post or go back to your high school homework before your bedtime.
 
So instead of defending your post you decide to go to name calling? Though i guess there's not much in your post that can really be defended...
 
lol this reminds me of the old 2thick and e2's test and deca argument. For thoes who were not around then these to would go on and on, thread after thread about this.lol

Actually I feel like a good oral such as anavar or dbol is a best first cycle... This is comming from a guy who did 500mg test and 400mg eq for his first.lol

E
 
2Thick said:
Old School post but it is still true

I
The reason that gear is scheduled is because most people are not educated enough to use it properly. Legalizing its use will not stop people from using dosages of 1000mg per day. Only education will and most people are not willing to wait the year that it takes to learn all there is to know about AS (plus waiting through the first couple years of using mild dosages with mild AS).


i dont think that is a good idea to keep it illegal...i think that would help education...i remember my first cycle, before i found boards or anything like this...i did whatever some dicklick at my gym told me to, and WAY before i was ready for roids...if he told me to take 250mg a day for a year, i probably woulda listened...90% of people i would say take gear for their first time have very little to NO knowledge...if newbies on here are bad, imagine the ones that dont even use the internet as a resource
Click to expand...
 
JonP said:
So instead of defending your post you decide to go to name calling? Though i guess there's not much in your post that can really be defended...
Click to expand...

You did not raise a valid opposition to my post besides the usual loser mantra of "this is ignorant."

When you want to play with the big boys, bring your brain.

The troll area is on the chat board. This is where adults debate anabolic theories.
 
Re: Re: NO Testosterone For Newbies

magman1 said:
i dont think that is a good idea to keep it illegal...i think that would help education...i remember my first cycle, before i found boards or anything like this...i did whatever some dicklick at my gym told me to, and WAY before i was ready for roids...if he told me to take 250mg a day for a year, i probably woulda listened...90% of people i would say take gear for their first time have very little to NO knowledge...if newbies on here are bad, imagine the ones that dont even use the internet as a resource
Click to expand...


I agree that it would be better off being decriminalized but legalization is not the answer. Just like alcohol, this has to be controlled in order to prevent teens and uneducated folk from hurting themselves.
Click to expand...
 
Nautica got quoted saying he thinks newbies shouldnt use deca and eq together without test LOL Thats my cycle... QV Deca300 at 300mg a week for 10 weeks and then Qv BOLD EQ at 500mg a week for 10 weeks

Any info as to why nautica? Just the deca dick? Ill take alot of tribestan and avena santiva
 
2Thick said:


Primobolan depot
Deca
Anavar
EQ
and even moderate dosages of dbol
Click to expand...

Scratch the progestin off the list and I might just semi-agree with you...Nah wait,TEST is king.Starting out with a light dosage of 250mgs/week will work well and most folks won't have any sort of probs with such a low dose.Deca on the other hand...
 
Using test on your first cycle or ANY cycle is the only logical way to use AS. Your body has several systems that depend on testosterone, not the least of which is your libido. I am at least glad to see that you stopped preaching deca only first cycles as you did three years ago. But your suggestion that someone should risk jail buying illegal AS, risk infection by injecting it, go through a recovery of your HPTA to produce your own test again and then use eq only or anavar and eq or any other combination of AS you listed defies logic.
Why would I want to risk all that for 3-5 pounds of gains from anavar?
Test is the safest AS to use. That's probably why it's used by physicians rather than an AS used for horses like eq. Ya think?
Even researchers who are studing the effects of AS are using 600mg/wk of test on men who have never cycled. Why would they do that if it was so dangerous?
Your argument didn't make sense 3 years ago and it still doesn't. I should call up Ranger and E2 for this but it's late.
 
Re: Re: Re: NO Testosterone For Newbies

2Thick said:



I agree that it would be better off being decriminalized but legalization is not the answer. Just like alcohol, this has to be controlled in order to prevent teens and uneducated folk from hurting themselves.
Click to expand...
oh yeah of course...i dont mean for it to be sold at like gnc to twelve year olds...but really learn about the shit...dont just say, "dont do it, its bad...but if you're gona, fuck off" its sorta like prohibition now...
 
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any valid reasons not to take test. The sides from moderate test dosages are easily kept under control by the majority of users.
 
ulter said:
Using test on your first cycle or ANY cycle is the only logical way to use AS. Your body has several systems that depend on testosterone, not the least of which is your libido.
Click to expand...

The human body is all about balance. If you use test for your first cycle, then your body reacts by shutting down your own test, losing hair (if you are predisposed) and developing gyno (if predisposed) and increasing your natural oestrogen production (and oestrogen receptors).

Libido does increase when you use test but it is missing for a short period of time after the cycle...until your natural test rebounds.

I am at least glad to see that you stopped preaching deca only first cycles as you did three years ago. But your suggestion that someone should risk jail buying illegal AS, risk infection by injecting it, go through a recovery of your HPTA to produce your own test again and then use eq only or anavar and eq or any other combination of AS you listed defies logic.
Click to expand...

You have forgotten where you came from. You did not start with high dosages and you cannot comprehend anyone not using the cycles you use now in order to grow. It is too late for you. you have exposed your body to Captain Insane-O cycles and those compounds I have listed will do little for you.


Why would I want to risk all that for 3-5 pounds of gains from anavar?
Click to expand...

That is quite false. I still gain 8-10 in LBM with EQ/Anavar

Test is the safest AS to use. That's probably why it's used by physicians rather than an AS used for horses like eq. Ya think?
Even researchers who are studying the effects of AS are using 600mg/wk of test on men who have never cycled. Why would they do that if it was so dangerous?
That study is golden nugget but they did not do a comparable study with EQ. if they did then I am sure that it would have been even more impressive.



Your argument didn't make sense 3 years ago and it still doesn't. I should call up Ranger and E2 for this but it's late.
Click to expand...

Your arguments did not phase me 3 years ago and they still don't;)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Deca is the QUEEN of libido obliviators,as well as being quite potent at in inducing gyno.It's only plus is conversion to DHN(which is gentler on the hairline).
 
Primobolan depot = to expensive and hard to get (especially for a newb)
Deca = alone, ya right. Too many bad things can happen as well
Anavar = to expensive and hard to get for a newb
EQ= only logical pick
and even moderate dosages of dbol = estro problems could fuck a newb up, but with atleast an anti-e it would be good just for an introduction
You have to be realistic with the choices is all I'm saying. I get the point though. That big ugly mofo palumbo had something in MD about a newb only using non-aromatizing gear which I thought was interesting. But also not really practical.
 
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex said:
Deca is the QUEEN of libido obliviators,as well as being quite potent at in inducing gyno.It's only plus is conversion to DHN(which is gentler on the hairline).
Click to expand...

You deca terrorists are all the same.

You hate what you cannot control:D

Seriously, deca on messes with you libido when you cycle it improperly (or if you are one of those who is sensitive to progesterone). Otherwise it is the greatest gear of all time!@
 
2thick, you must own stock in a compnay that only produces deca. There is no logical reason why newbies should not start with test, should they take agram a week, probably not, should they use drol...hell no. Weigh the potential problems with injecting EQ EOD for a newbie and I say no way to that too, factor the cost of var and that's out as well. So that leaves us back to the same old fight between test and deca. I've never suffered any, and I do mean any, sides from using test in the last 15 years. Deca on the other hand will make my hair start falling out in a matter of weeks. For most people, the gains from test alone are far superior than from deca alone, hopefully allowing a newbie to use less and allow his body and maturity to grow with his gear usage......

Shit, this is an old topic, how did I respond to this 3 years ago?

BPP

"Why do I do the things that I do?"
" Because I can!"
 
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex said:
Deca is the QUEEN of libido obliviators,as well as being quite potent at in inducing gyno.It's only plus is conversion to DHN(which is gentler on the hairline).
Click to expand...

I am very worried about the gyno caused by deca becasue i have already juiced out nips that look liek i got gyno.. I know for a fact i would be fucked just cuse of my luck.. i have been talking with others as to what the best preventative would be for me.. some say nolvadex and some say the bromo.. but what about progesterone gyno... why would i use nolvadex then? Finnaplix.. any suggestions for this cycle?

Var 40 ED Wk1-6
Deca 300mg Wk1-10
EQ 500mg Wk1-10
 
BigPapaPump said:
2thick, you must own stock in a compnay that only produces deca.
Click to expand...

:laugh2:


There is no logical reason why newbies should not start with test, should they take agram a week, probably not, should they use drol...hell no. Weigh the potential problems with injecting EQ EOD for a newbie and I say no way to that too, factor the cost of var and that's out as well. So that leaves us back to the same old fight between test and deca. I've never suffered any, and I do mean any, sides from using test in the last 15 years.
Click to expand...

Thank goodness that you have not been negatively affected, but I am saying that test should be used after a few light cycles to see how your body responds. It is all about safety.

Deca on the other hand will make my hair start falling out in a matter of weeks. For most people, the gains from test alone are far superior than from deca alone, hopefully allowing a newbie to use less and allow his body and maturity to grow with his gear usage......
Click to expand...

It is all individual, but there is no logical reason to jump straight into the test when you can test the waters for safety first.

Shit, this is an old topic, how did I respond to this 3 years ago?

BPP

"Why do I do the things that I do?"
" Because I can!"
Click to expand...

hahaha, It is GREAT to see you back bro. You have brought a lot back to this board. And for the record, you did not respond back then:)
 
IHateCrunches-Substitute WINSTROL for the var,as winstrol can bind the progesterone receptor and nullify its activation.Also have nolvadex on hand,as deca can indirectly stimulate the estrogen receptor.
 
i never did test till recently i do not believe its needed but then again thats me what works for me may not work for you
 
the only reason it seems aas seem to not have as much of a significant effect the more we use them is because we get bigger everytime. 250mg was fine at 180, 500mg was fine at 195, 1000mg was fine at 210, etc. besides high test levels will actually cause your body to increase its number of ar receptors.
 
*sigh*
is it an "off-day" again, 2thick?
At least this is more logical than your old fallacious argument about different actions on the AR receptors . . .

Looking at some of your alternatives to test for a newb:

1)primo - ha ha! a newb buying primo is likely to end up doing low-dose test and you know it. (fakes, fakes, everywhere. . . ) In theory, great, but not very safe practically for a newb. Test or deca least likely to be faked probably.
2)anavar-not bad, actually. And contrary to what others said, easy to find even domestic, with loeffler's good product and others. Not likely to get huge, or satisfy one with power-lifter leanings though :) , but very appropriate for the high-school or college jock's first dip into cycles. Real selective for the AR receptor, and nice leaning-out effect. I'm starting to dig it too, ummmm with TEST.
3)d-bol - probably reasonable too, no needles, easy to find, good and cheap. As basic to high-school football as cheap-piss beer in kegs ;) 2&3 appeal to the same crowd and don't use needles. d-bol would have sides, if dosed up, that could get very unpleasant.
4)eq-this is pretty good idea . . . but with the libido problems a little test very helpful to add. But this isn't a bad idea for a more hard-core newb cycle. There are alot of similarities between primo and eq in structure...
5)deca- the real reason you posted this ;) I think you have stock in norma . . . test and deca work the same way on AR receptors through the same 2nd messenger system (IP3). So, it's all about the sides . . . With deca it seems like you keep more of your gains, but in reality it's just that more of what you see you get to keep (and this is pretty good!) With test (even 1mg arimidex ed) there is a lot of water retention, which pushes up your strength, but makes you feel a lot bigger than you really are . . . Test definitely harder on the hairline. Deca definitely harder on the libido in most folks at equally effective doses (300deca say compared to 500 test). In gyno, probably equal (i.e. not likely either way), but . . . if you get gyno with test, anti-es will help, but not with deca's progesterone gyno; there is no easy answer. So if the unlikely worst happens (i.e. the start of gyno) with test you have a fix, not so easy with deca. Both are about equal for acne. Recovery longer with deca, but since you didn't have super-human test levels for 8 wks, there's not so much of a psychological crash, but there is quite a physical crash with deca. The truth is, either deca or test at modest doses would make a nice first cycle, and it seems hard to recommend either one significantly over the other. But of course, deca is for pussies, so go with the test, because test is best! ;)
 
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HA!! I love your statement in a thread a few day ago,Test is for young boys and old men....my wife wanted to kick your ass for that comment!!!!!:D
TEST IS KING- at 51 no wrinkles-no grey hair-no gyno-constant hard ons-skin tone has improved- DAMN! what more do you want...i bet deca doesn't do shit!exception of a limp noodle!



RADAR
 
Haha, this brings back old memories.

Deca kicks ass! For me at least but I don't respond to Test well. Never have.

Truth is, I hate the fact that I cannot increase the dose of Deca all that much like I could do if I was a test guy. I stick to 300mg of Deca, if I increase it at more than 400mg, my dick becomes useless. What's the point of being big and shredded if I can't use my dick?

Test side effects can be controlled with the use of Proscar, Nolva, Arimidex...

The shutdown from Deca in most people is much worst than Test.

There is a drug that replaces Deca and is much better in EVERY aspect: Nandrolone PhenylPropionate.

I have used it as much as 100mg ED and it is definetely a God Send for me, I use it for 4-6 weeks and it is much better than Deca (although BP may an issue at higher doses), I'm planning on using upwards of 200mg ED.

Also, 2thick your recommendation that newbies use Primo and Anavar is wishful thinking at best. I have been around for a long time and I recently scored 30 amps of Legit primo(Had it tested) It cost me 30 bucks Canadian a piece.
 
BigAndy - What makes nadrolone phenylprop so much better than deca? It should be just like a faster acting deca. Do you notice less sides with it?

I also don't respond well to test. All I get out of test is a raging labido and and equally raging case of acne.
 
It seems that people are responding as if 2Thick said test isnt as good as the other anabolics. He simply said that before newbies play with the king of steroids, they try some of the lighter stuff first. Your first car shouldnt be a Ferrari, and the same principle applies here. Do a couple milder cycles first, then if thats not enough, kick it up with test. Its really simple and logical, no one is bashing test.
 
Spidey said:
BigAndy - What makes nadrolone phenylprop so much better than deca? It should be just like a faster acting deca. Do you notice less sides with it?

I also don't respond well to test. All I get out of test is a raging labido and and equally raging case of acne.
Click to expand...

Well, the main problem with Nandrolone Deconate(Deca) is that is is very slow acting. It builds up in your system slowly and then all of a sudden, you have a pair of tits or your dick is numb 24 hours a day.

Basically, you cannot control it. Do you see what I'm getting at? You shot 600mg of Deca a week and you will find out if it's too much by week 3-4 but by then it will be to late. If that happens with sust (which has 100mg of T Deconate), all you do is add Nolva and problem solved. You can do that qith Nandro Deca

With Nandrolone PP, you can control doses and side effects. Plus there is a huge difference in the Deconate ester and PhenylPropionate ester, so you get much more actual Nandro per mg.

Try it for 4-6 weeks at a time and see what I mean, strength gains are incredible.
 
Damn, all this talk about not wanting to legalize AS and Test. Look, you could make it so you have to be over 18 (or better 21) but it should not be a controlled substance. Party drugs are causing more harm in this country (with the exception of Pot). What about countries where it is legal like Mexico - does everyone there walk around looking shredded?? Don't think so. We should be looking for More freedom, not less. Thanks!
 
alanchiras said:
Damn, all this talk about not wanting to legalize AS and Test. Look, you could make it so you have to be over 18 (or better 21) but it should not be a controlled substance. Party drugs are causing more harm in this country (with the exception of Pot). What about countries where it is legal like Mexico - does everyone there walk around looking shredded?? Don't think so. We should be looking for More freedom, not less. Thanks!
Click to expand...

People in Mexico for the most part:

1- Can't afford steroids
2- Don't care about Bodybuilding

I do agree that making steroids illegal increases there use in Teenagers.
 
anabolicmd said:
It seems that people are responding as if 2Thick said test isnt as good as the other anabolics. He simply said that before newbies play with the king of steroids, they try some of the lighter stuff first. Your first car shouldnt be a Ferrari, and the same principle applies here. Do a couple milder cycles first, then if thats not enough, kick it up with test. Its really simple and logical, no one is bashing test.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the great summary.
 
2 Thick-

I do agree with what you are saying (as so nicely summarized by anabolicMD) Heck, if a first time person who was going to do it asked me what to take, I would probably say the same..... but lets face it, like others have said, legit Var and Primo are hard to find or too expensive for most noobs, and even some not so noobs....

Until that changes you will keep seeing noob threads looking for info on 1) test and 2) fina....

Why? 1) Easy to get and 2)cheap...

I sincerely like the idea behind it A LOT, but I think it is wishful thinking....
 
2Thick said:


You deca terrorists are all the same.

You hate what you cannot control:D

Seriously, deca on messes with you libido when you cycle it improperly (or if you are one of those who is sensitive to progesterone). Otherwise it is the greatest gear of all time!@
Click to expand...

I recently have done a deca/primo cycle and was happy with the results HOWEVER I'll never use deca again. at 350mgs p/w I still getting my balls back. And thats about 2 months ago.

I believe that as long as your not gyno prone alittle test won't hurt.

My next cycle
test enth...400mgs...1-10
EQ...500mgs...1-12
and maybe some primo at 300mgs p/w for 1-12
 
17aas are worse (though I love them!)

I have to go with Nautica on this one. He made a very important point. Testosterone is infinitely safer for any newbie than using 17AA's like winstrol and anadrol, etc. The gains from a first cycle are definately better with test and sexual activity is also less problematic with regards to deca dick, etc. Without the test a first cycle is incomplete and useless and using primo or deca alone will elicit minimal gains. That's why the best newbie starter cycle is always sustanon with deca. I used this for my first two cycles and then progressed onto other stacks and compounds.
 
I always get a kick out of this argument. Deca IS testosterone. All steroids are synthetic testosterone based derivitives, and bind to the same receptor. Some steroids, however, have been bio-chemically engineered to reduce androgenic side-effects and increase pure anabolic activity. Deca is the original of such steroids.
The standard test used by scientists to discern between androgenic and anabolic properties is to measure the drugs effect on prostate tissue growth vs. skeletal muscle tissue growth. Esterless deca has 80% less impact on prostate enlargement and 2.4 times more impact on skeletal muscle tissue growth when compared to esterless testosterone.
I won't take sides in the argument cause I use both, but it makes a lot of sense to stack into the cycle some anabolic derivitive drugs rather than continuously upping the dose of androgens.
 
alanchiras said:
What about countries where it is legal like Mexico - does everyone there walk around looking shredded?? Don't think so.
Click to expand...

I guess not.... only people who workout looks like that, I guess it's the same over there..:rolleyes:
 
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