no gains from 5x5?

[hooah69]

Im at the start of the 6th week in the dual factor 5x5, and havent gained one pound. I must have read every post here at elitefitness and at meso by madcow and i feel i did everything right. Even the strength gains have been small. I did the 2day week (mon,thur) deload just to be safe but still didnt get anything. I eat more than enough and diet couldnt be the problem. Has anyone else had a problem like this, or am i just not waiting long enough to see gains?

 

[Guinness5.0]

Hmmm...

What did your weight progression look like on your lifts? My suspicion is that your weight selection was too ambitious, but that's a hasty coclusion based on the limited info you provided. How did you go about determining your starting weights? Did you fail on your attempts early on in the program?

Lack off weight gain is usually a result of insufficient calories.

Give us some more info to get decent help, specifically how your starting weights were determined and how much you increased them week to week.

 

[bignate73]

eat more.

 

[1_more_rep]

Hmmm...

What did your weight progression look like on your lifts? My suspicion is that your weight selection was too ambitious, but that's a hasty coclusion based on the limited info you provided. How did you go about determining your starting weights? Did you fail on your attempts early on in the program?

Lack off weight gain is usually a result of insufficient calories.

Give us some more info to get decent help, specifically how your starting weights were determined and how much you increased them week to week.

i agree completely with guiness...i'm a noob myself to the whole lifting thing when i started the 5x5 about 3 weeks ago...i started day 1 trying to go bench starting at 55->65->75->85->95 and i did the fourth set fine and the fifth set i needed so much help i think i did 1 rep and i was done for i went too high so i took a rest for 2 days doing just cardio and went back and started with no weight on bench just 45->55->65->75->85 it feels too light and like it's not helping at all when you're doing the first few sets at such low weight but once you reach your 4th and 5th at least you can complete them and not need a spotter (i'm not sure if you struggled at all with weights you chose - just sharing my experience incase yours might be similar) that was day 1 bench and then friday (3rd day of 5x5) i went for my fifth set of benching by adding 2.5 lbs to each side of the bench and i did (slowly and explosively) 5 reps by myself and keeping form...the next week i started weight at 50->60->70->80->90 and i had no problem even on the fifth set i surprised myself that i could do it...the next week (current week) has been best and ive increased even more weight LITTLE BY LITTLE

and you might be thinking "oh well that's because you were doing VERY light weights that you could do at higher weights anyways.." but the truth is a month ago i maxed out at a pitiful bench of only 2 reps at 65 lbs...so i have made a great increase in strength on the routine but that's only because i've completely changed my diet and constantly have water with me so i don't get tempted by yummy sodas

i think that is probably the reason you can't increase weight - your margin you increased by was probably too heavy...

also, you say you eat MORE than enough - but is what you are eating fit for a lifter? especially one trying to get alot stronger on a new routine? i would check out the diet forums and check out posts by Pintoca and diet gurus like him - he has a great diet made on a template

here it is:http://cts.ccfiles.de/Pintoca_CTSApr05_Diet_v1.0.jpg
user: elite
pass: ctsapr2005


also this may sound like a stupid question but MAKE SURE you are using the actual equipment like the BENCH and SQUAT rack...not the machine substitutes because i read somewhere that that was important..

so thats my 2 cents...biggest advice would be to heighten the weight load VERY little once a week...and if you cant...make the higher weights once every 2 weeks...i hope somethin in my post is of use

 

[bas4lizzife]

To echo what's been said. Check your diet. If you really are eating enough, but the program is to blame, you will still put on weight, albeit mostly fat. You eat more than you burn, you gain weight, period. Nobody is exempt from this rule. Food quality, rest, and proper training will obviously be the deciding factor in how much is quality mass gain.

 

[HaZaRDouZ]

im not close to a newb . . . . no newb gains. i gained like 60lbs on my bench. i didnt even eat 6meals a day only 4. i got 7+ hrs a day of sleep and ate big meals when i ate. the more advanced you are the harder of a gainer, and it worked like butter for me.

 

[hooah69]

Weight progression was not a problem, like i said i read most of the posts concerning the dual factor 5x5 that i could find. It was only on the fourth week of the volume phase that i missed reps, and that was only the last rep of the last set. this is the first 4weeks for bench (everything else was same general pogressions)
1x5 5x5
225 205
235 210
245 220
250 225
Im not really a calorie counter but i know i get at least 3300cal 200g protein a day at 5'10 180lb. Nor am i an incredibly hard gainer. I plan on trying it again and am just trying to get advice on how to do it differently or if anyone else has not gained like this. (isnt it possible that i dont respond as well to this type of training as others)

 

[Guinness5.0]

bas' post said it all- if you eat a lot and the program sucks you'll get fat. If you eat a lot and the program's good you'll gain muscle.

It sounds like you set the weights right but why do you feel you didn't gain strength? What was your bench PR before?

Remember, MC often said that the best gains often come during the intensity phase. They did for me.

 

[HaZaRDouZ]

Weight progression was not a problem, like i said i read most of the posts concerning the dual factor 5x5 that i could find. It was only on the fourth week of the volume phase that i missed reps, and that was only the last rep of the last set. this is the first 4weeks for bench (everything else was same general pogressions)
1x5 5x5
225 205
235 210
245 220
250 225
Im not really a calorie counter but i know i get at least 3300cal 200g protein a day at 5'10 180lb. Nor am i an incredibly hard gainer. I plan on trying it again and am just trying to get advice on how to do it differently or if anyone else has not gained like this. (isnt it possible that i dont respond as well to this type of training as others)

um the way i understood this routine was 5x5 was SAME WEIGHT, like 205 or 215 or 225 x 5
second, i used much wider spaces. u are burning out at 250, id try like 250, 235, 220, 205, 185 or something x 5, and then bump up your 250 to 255-260 next 1x5 chance, this is what i did and gained GREAT!

 

[hooah69]

i got stronger, mostly in squating strength, but what i meant was that i could have gotten stronger by doing a dif. routing(like westside or something). my goal for this was to put on mass though not gain strength. saiyagin i meant like on week four i did 135x5,185x5,205x5,215x5,250x5(just building up to 250x5 with warm up sets) and 225x5 for 5 sets, im not really sure what ur sayin, thnx ---but i did break records in the volume phase, befor my 1x5 max was like 240-245 or somthing

 

[anotherbutters]

If you want to gain mass and the quantity you're eating isn't increasing your weight then you're obviously not eating enough. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

3300 cals obviously isn't enough for your goals. Hell, I'm smaller than you (5'9", 155lbs) and I eat 3500 - 4000 cals. Since I started that, I started putting on 2lb per week.

 

[blut wump]

Weight gain is almost purely about caloric excess. 'Nuff said.

The lack of strength gain is another matter, though. You don't say much about your lifting experience but you do mention Westside so I guess you're reasonably experienced. Did you aim to bury yourself in weeks 3 and 4. The results from this program are heavily dependent on pushing yourself very hard by the time you reach the record weeks during the volume phase. That said, you're only at the start of week6 and the benefits could still be rolling in as you continue to deload.

You're doing the 2x per week deload phase so stick wth it for another week. It'd be great if you could let us know whether this next week makes a favourable improvement.

 

[sublime35]

Just to agree with what everyone else said, you need to eat more to gain physical weight. You said you haven't gained a lb., then that means you need to eat more. You said that you don't count calories, well then maybe you should. That's the only way you'll really know if you're eating enough. simple as that man.

 

[Jim Ouini]

If you're an experienced guy used to this kind of lifting and volume you may not see gains until the latter part of the program as Blut said. I experienced some gains early on but I'd been doing 1 bodypart/wk for a long time.

I'm trying to recall but at 180lbs I think I needed ~4000-4200 cals/day to gain. You may have to hork back a Madcow burger everyday for awhile...

 

[hooah69]

ok ill try it agian at 4000+ and keep u all updated , thnks

 

[Ozz2001]

Im at the start of the 6th week in the dual factor 5x5, and havent gained one pound. I must have read every post here at elitefitness and at meso by madcow and i feel i did everything right. Even the strength gains have been small. I did the 2day week (mon,thur) deload just to be safe but still didnt get anything. I eat more than enough and diet couldnt be the problem. Has anyone else had a problem like this, or am i just not waiting long enough to see gains?

This goes to show everyone is different! What works for some may not work for others! Might have worked if you were on gear

 

[Jim Ouini]

ok ill try it agian at 4000+ and keep u all updated , thnks

Just as an FYI, I referenced Kleiner's 'Power Eating' for my bulking plan which says 24 cals/lb of bodyweight.

At 178 I was only at 3100 when I finally calculated my daily cals and had to eat some bigger meals and some more, uhm, calorically dense food .

So after adjusting to 4200 I was 191 after first 5 x 5 and 203 after second 5 x 5. A little more fat than I would've liked though so next time I'll try to be smarter about it. I believe most say adding 500 cals per day at most and gradually get to your target reqmt (instead of all 1000+ at once)

Now down to 199 after backing off cals a bit.

 

[rbtrout]

Wow, jim, that's a butt-load for me. I'd be bloated at 24 cals/lb of weight. 238*24 = 5712 cals per day. I'd be a mass.
Hooah69 - I just completed the 5X5. I ate to maintain during the 1st phase. I took a week off and then started eating about 4500 cals per day and doing the 3X3 phase. My strength shot through the roof (even in the first phase) and I put on 18 pounds in the last 4 weeks. Taking my bf% readings, I only put on about 8 pounds of bf. Obviously, you're not eating enough, even at 3300 cals per day. To echo the phrase - EAT MORE! Also, these last 4 weeks of the routine should just kick your ass. I was completely whipped 3 days a week and nearly exhausted by the time I got to work (I've do early am workouts).
Up your cals - maybe 100 or so per meal and lift like crazy. You should be able to add some mass and strength.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Wow, jim, that's a butt-load for me. I'd be bloated at 24 cals/lb of weight. 238*24 = 5712 cals per day. I'd be a mass.

Yeah I felt like I was eating Thanksgiving dinner every meal

But sometimes you hear 19 cals/lb of BW and like I said Kleiner says 24. I guess that's why slow and steady increase is probably best to see what works.

Anyway, at 240 I can't imagine what the amount of food I'd need to eat to bulk

 

[Tacosupreme]

eat things

 

[blut wump]

One trick is to get a larger plate. Your normal serving on a larger plate will look less and it'll be mentally easier to add more. Do the opposite for cutting: use a smaller plate.

 

[anotherbutters]

One trick is to get a larger plate. Your normal serving on a larger plate will look less and it'll be mentally easier to add more. Do the opposite for cutting: use a smaller plate.

lol, I can't remember the last time I ate off a plate. It's all tupperware for me, apart from my oats in the morning.