Nice guys finish last, yet again

[digimon7068]

yea, cause that .25 coffee from mcdonalds is going to keep the cancer away..

only if you're in the 48% of the population that is in possession of a prostate

however, statistically, happy people live longer...stress weakens the immune system and also hamstrings your body's ability to deal with traumas and ward off other diseases...you can pma your way to a longer life.

 

[musclemom]

yeah, but they likely live longer because they're not always pissed off...so they get it on the back end in the form of social security and all the other free and reduced services, etc. that seniors have available to them...being nice is like money in the bank

I'm afraid I disagree.

My husband and I are both "nice guys." That doesn't change the fact that we resent when we see "ruthless" people (for lack of a better word) who have achieved successes because they are willing to lie, cheat, steal, step on toes, or do lesser or greater things to achieve their goals (I'm talking work, divorce, all sorts of shit).

I totally agree with the article. I do not believe that it is possible for "nice" people to be successful in any aspect of life that involves money. There is always someone who has absolutely no compunction about taking advantage of a person who is kind, compassionate and/or trusting, this is true in financial dealings, purchase, employment, extending even to family matters.

 

[digimon7068]

I'm afraid I disagree.

My husband and I are both "nice guys." That doesn't change the fact that we resent when we see "ruthless" people (for lack of a better word) who have achieved successes because they are willing to lie, cheat, steal, step on toes, or do lesser or greater things to achieve their goals (I'm talking work, divorce, all sorts of shit).

I totally agree with the article. I do not believe that it is possible for "nice" people to be successful in any aspect of life that involves money. There is always someone who has absolutely no compunction about taking advantage of a person who is kind, compassionate and/or trusting, this is true in financial dealings, purchase, employment, extending even to family matters.

nice = happiness...ruthless people are not truly happy and you know that is true...if nothing else, they spend a lot of time and effort worrying about someone getting over on them...and (generally) happy people live longer and have less instances of disease, etc...i can show you lots of happy people that are successful at business, etc...does everyone in the world love them?? no, of course not! you can't please everyone and they do have to fire some people once in a while (there are lots of lazy, ignorant, insubordinates out there roaming the workforce)...and lots of those people would tell you that busienss-owner guy/gal is an asshole...but, a lot of them would also tell you that their mother, obama, the pope, ghandi, jesus christ, etc. are assholes too. oh and, being nice doesn't mean you have to be a patsy...even nice people get pissed...they just don't stay that way.

 

[Lumberg]

yea, cause that .25 coffee from mcdonalds is going to keep the cancer away..

only if you're in the 48% of the population that is in possession of a prostate

however, statistically, happy people live longer...stress weakens the immune system and also hamstrings your body's ability to deal with traumas and ward off other diseases...you can pma your way to a longer life.

You beat me to it about coffee's health benefits.

Hey, nice and happy are probably related, but probably not a perfect 1-1 match.

I can be assertive and stand up for myself, not "go with the flow" every time. That probably makes me happier than being a doormat.

 

[digimon7068]

You beat me to it about coffee's health benefits.

Hey, nice and happy are probably related, but probably not a perfect 1-1 match.

I can be assertive and stand up for myself, not "go with the flow" every time. That probably makes me happier than being a doormat.

i'm pretty happy/nice most of the time...but, i can be a real asshole too

no one's perfect...even jesus tried to sidestep the cross in the 11th hour

 

[musclemom]

OMG, board is catastrophically slow ... I was going to K this but I will say it here: A truly good, honest man cannot beat a ruthless, dishonest one at any game, period. The meek cannot inherit the earth. That fact bugs the shit out of me and always will. The fact that people who have lied and stabbed me in the back have gotten things over me, and there is NO way I could have competed with them unless I was willing to sink to their level of ruthlessness, essentially become them, infuriates me to no end.

And if you don't believe ruthless/amoral individuals aren't happy you are kidding yourself. They're perfectly happy, because they lack the conscience to be bothered by what they do or who they've harmed. They got what they wanted, they're happier than pigs in shit.

 

[digimon7068]

OMG, board is catastrophically slow ... I was going to K this but I will say it here: A truly good, honest man cannot beat a ruthless, dishonest one at any game, period. The meek cannot inherit the earth. That fact bugs the shit out of me and always will. The fact that people who have lied and stabbed me in the back have gotten things over me, and there is NO way I could have competed with them unless I was willing to sink to their level of ruthlessness, essentially become them, infuriates me to no end.

And if you don't believe ruthless/amoral individuals aren't happy you are kidding yourself. They're perfectly happy, because they lack the conscience to be bothered by what they do or who they've harmed. They got what they wanted, they're happier than pigs in shit.

now you're only talking about sociopaths...and the group of successful people that are sociopaths is quite small, imho.

 

[musclemom]

now you're only talking about sociopaths...and the group of successful people that are sociopaths is quite small, imho.

Not at all. Many, many people have absolutely NO hesitation in doing what is morally, spiritually or ethically gray or even wrong to protect their financial interests, and they don't think twice about it but that doesn't make them sociopaths.

Look, I'll give you a perfectly good example. Husband and I owned house with my mom, we paid mortgage 50/50. My mom died and left no insurance. At the time we were also carrying child support on hubby's two children, ages 16 & 13. That child support payment included $55 a week that was supposed to be going to daycare, which the kids hadn't been in for quite some time but getting shit like that removed is a huge hassle so we were waiting for down time in work to consider trying to get reassessed.

Less than one month of my mother dying escrow was reassessed and mortgage went up by a bit over $100. So within one month of my mother dying, our monthly financial obligations increased by over $600, and that was before considering heating or cooling season.

We wrote a very, very nice letter to husband's ex wife explaining our (at that time) very dire financial situation and asking that she forgive the $55 week since the children had not been in daycare for some time. She had her lawyer send us a nasty gram threatening to have the entire situation re-evaluated by the court, and pointing out that considering the economy, childcare aside, the child support order would probably be further increased.

Now, my husband's ex wife is a materialist, selfish, gold digging piece of white trash who cared less for her children and their needs than any reptile I've ever heard of. The child support went to paying for her vacation trips, concerts, clothes, motorcycle and whatever her little heart desired. When the kids needed school supplies, decent clothes or shoes, they came to us because her idea of shoes was BOGO's at Payless (BTW, both kids have SEVERELY flat feet) or she would just develop selective deafness. In fact, for the last year or so of us paying child support on his youngest the kids started calling us telling us there was no food in the house, so we were dropping another $60 every other week in food off.

So we knew that bitch wasn't using the money for the children's needs and that she wasn't investing it in her house. She could have been a decent human being and said "well, it was awarded specifically for daycare and I can understand your circumstances." However, morally, she felt vindicated in threatening us with further penalties when we were already down.

And here's another point. Penna is a fucker when it comes to child support. If you're a non custodial dad (and mom has to be a crack smoking whore pulling a train in front of her kids daily to get them taken away in this state) you're screwed up the ass, particularly if you're a nice guy. The assholes who run and don't pay do WAY better.

Now, is she greedy and selfish? Yep. Do I think most financially successful people are greedy and selfish? Yep. Do I think my husband's ex wife is a sociopath? Nope and neither are most of those financially successful people. However, I also KNOW that c**t won't hesitate to do whatever she feels is necessary to protect her financial interests (over her children's) even if it isn't ethically or morally the right thing to do and I know that someone who has a lot more to lose is willing to go to much greater lengths to protect what they consider theirs. People don't have to be sociopaths, they just have to WANT shit badly enough to not care if anyone else is getting hurt.

Do I think that corporations that pull up stakes and move operations overseas simply to save on wages, meanwhile displacing tens of thousands of good, honest, loyal workers are wrong? Yep. But they're not sociopaths, not even when they pay the overseas workers minimum wage and increase the board member's salaries by millions.

Do you see my point?

When it comes to money, most people aren't nice. Nice means being fair, doing the right thing, taking other people's needs and feelings into consideration. Nice means being HUMANE.

Very few financially successful people are nice when it comes to their money, period.

 

[bakemeacookie]

every been to a velvet rope club?

nice guys always finish last there too

c

 

[mrplunkey]

Not at all. Many, many people have absolutely NO hesitation in doing what is morally, spiritually or ethically gray or even wrong to protect their financial interests, and they don't think twice about it but that doesn't make them sociopaths.

Look, I'll give you a perfectly good example. Husband and I owned house with my mom, we paid mortgage 50/50. My mom died and left no insurance. At the time we were also carrying child support on hubby's two children, ages 16 & 13. That child support payment included $55 a week that was supposed to be going to daycare, which the kids hadn't been in for quite some time but getting shit like that removed is a huge hassle so we were waiting for down time in work to consider trying to get reassessed.

Less than one month of my mother dying escrow was reassessed and mortgage went up by a bit over $100. So within one month of my mother dying, our monthly financial obligations increased by over $600, and that was before considering heating or cooling season.

We wrote a very, very nice letter to husband's ex wife explaining our (at that time) very dire financial situation and asking that she forgive the $55 week since the children had not been in daycare for some time. She had her lawyer send us a nasty gram threatening to have the entire situation re-evaluated by the court, and pointing out that considering the economy, childcare aside, the child support order would probably be further increased.

Now, my husband's ex wife is a materialist, selfish, gold digging piece of white trash who cared less for her children and their needs than any reptile I've ever heard of. The child support went to paying for her vacation trips, concerts, clothes, motorcycle and whatever her little heart desired. When the kids needed school supplies, decent clothes or shoes, they came to us because her idea of shoes was BOGO's at Payless (BTW, both kids have SEVERELY flat feet) or she would just develop selective deafness. In fact, for the last year or so of us paying child support on his youngest the kids started calling us telling us there was no food in the house, so we were dropping another $60 every other week in food off.

So we knew that bitch wasn't using the money for the children's needs and that she wasn't investing it in her house. She could have been a decent human being and said "well, it was awarded specifically for daycare and I can understand your circumstances." However, morally, she felt vindicated in threatening us with further penalties when we were already down.

And here's another point. Penna is a fucker when it comes to child support. If you're a non custodial dad (and mom has to be a crack smoking whore pulling a train in front of her kids daily to get them taken away in this state) you're screwed up the ass, particularly if you're a nice guy. The assholes who run and don't pay do WAY better.

Now, is she greedy and selfish? Yep. Do I think most financially successful people are greedy and selfish? Yep. Do I think my husband's ex wife is a sociopath? Nope and neither are most of those financially successful people. However, I also KNOW that c**t won't hesitate to do whatever she feels is necessary to protect her financial interests (over her children's) even if it isn't ethically or morally the right thing to do and I know that someone who has a lot more to lose is willing to go to much greater lengths to protect what they consider theirs. People don't have to be sociopaths, they just have to WANT shit badly enough to not care if anyone else is getting hurt.

Do I think that corporations that pull up stakes and move operations overseas simply to save on wages, meanwhile displacing tens of thousands of good, honest, loyal workers are wrong? Yep. But they're not sociopaths, not even when they pay the overseas workers minimum wage and increase the board member's salaries by millions.

Do you see my point?

When it comes to money, most people aren't nice. Nice means being fair, doing the right thing, taking other people's needs and feelings into consideration. Nice means being HUMANE.

Very few financially successful people are nice when it comes to their money, period.

1) Sorry to hear about these troubles. I do wish you the best.

2) According to your theory, shouldn't your husband's ex-wife be wildly successful since she is so ruthless?

3) Many of the problems you describe are the result of a screwed-up, overly intrusive, know-it-all government. Shouldn't that be what we are scaling back?

4) Corporations pull up stakes and move overseas because customers aren't willing to pay the price they need to justify manufacturing in the US. If the Chinese company is charging $50, people aren't going to pay $100 for the US version.