New to Testosterone

[kingplaya4]

I'm 28 and after two years of some monotype illness that doctors can't seem to find the cause of, my total T is only 275. In my early twenties it was only 400, but somehow such a small drop has made a huge difference in my sex drive and energy.

Anyway, to get to the point, I've moved overseas to get work and finally decided to visit an anti-aging doctor to deal with my lack of energy. He tested me at 275 and recommended nebido, a three month lasting test shot. A few days ago I got a shot of depo testosterone which he said would last 2 or 3 weeks.

Now I know this technically is the wrong forum, but after doing a lot of reading online, it sounds like the bodybuilders know more than most of the doctors do. Anyway, my doctor hasn't mentioned a thing about estrogen blockers such as Arimidex or hcg shots for possible testicle shrinkage.

So here are my questions: does it take a long time for testosterone to turn into estrogen or can this happen on the first shot? Is an estrogen blocker standard for TRT or do they usually blood test to see if estrogen's being raised or not? Are hcg shots necessary with the first shot, or only when some "shrinkage" is noticed? And lastly, I'm a little broke now, can I do okay without a postcyle therapy for just a single shot? (He dosed me to try to get me to about 900 total)

Any input would be highly appreciated.

 

[goin on 4T]

1. It depends on the idividual and the type of Test. Prop is a fast acting ester and not in the system very so less likely to cause esto problems unless large doses are taken. Cyp and Ethn are very slow esters so it takes a couple of weeks for it to build up to the amount you want in your body. So once you have built up the test in your body it is more likely to esto. I am not a scholar on this one so I hope some others will join in an add with greater knowledge. So no its not likely on the first shot.
2. Again we all react differently to the test. I don't need an estro blocker and I am at 200mg/wk of cyp. some do though. You will know either by tests or by your nipples getting puffy or a lump will develop under it.
3. I also have not noticed any shrinkage of my nuts. However it is common to take HCG. I don't.
4. That is difficult to say since you didn't say what he gave you or how much...

 

[kingplaya4]

It says depo testosterone on my scrip, I'm pretty sure the bottle said 200 mls although I could be wrong. I think I'd freak if I had the slightest breast growth at all. My doctor seems to be the type to wait to deal with things as they occur. What specific estrogen test should I ask for?

 

[goin on 4T]

Depo comes in two strengths 100mg/ml and 200mg/ml. I think you meant to say 200mg/ml.
So how much did you inject?
Esto is not something that you can test to see if you have a disposition for. Some people will convert to estro at 200mg/week some don't. You should spend some time reading the threads in this forum to find out what others are using.

These are some additional tests that would be great to have if you can afford them.
Estrogen level (preferably estradiol, estrone and estriol but some idea of estrogen is better than none)
ACTH
Cortisol

 

[flatscat]

I'm 28 and after two years of some monotype illness that doctors can't seem to find the cause of, my total T is only 275. In my early twenties it was only 400, but somehow such a small drop has made a huge difference in my sex drive and energy.

Anyway, to get to the point, I've moved overseas to get work and finally decided to visit an anti-aging doctor to deal with my lack of energy. He tested me at 275 and recommended nebido, a three month lasting test shot. A few days ago I got a shot of depo testosterone which he said would last 2 or 3 weeks.

Now I know this technically is the wrong forum, but after doing a lot of reading online, it sounds like the bodybuilders know more than most of the doctors do. Anyway, my doctor hasn't mentioned a thing about estrogen blockers such as Arimidex or hcg shots for possible testicle shrinkage.

So here are my questions: does it take a long time for testosterone to turn into estrogen or can this happen on the first shot? Is an estrogen blocker standard for TRT or do they usually blood test to see if estrogen's being raised or not? Are hcg shots necessary with the first shot, or only when some "shrinkage" is noticed? And lastly, I'm a little broke now, can I do okay without a postcyle therapy for just a single shot? (He dosed me to try to get me to about 900 total)

Any input would be highly appreciated.

This is the correct forum.

You really need to have a complete blood work up done before you start you lifetime trt program. Since you have already been injected once - I would think if you wanted to do this you would need to wait about 3-5 weeks before you test.

Some guys are more prone to convert T to E - I am one of those guys. I started with high E2, at 200mg/week test C and even with A-dex .5/twice week it remained in the upper range. If you are prone to the conversion, as your total t goes up, so will your E2 (I don't think it will take long) and you will spend a good amount of time trying to get the ratio dialed in. If your E2 is in check and at the low end, then you could start without a-dex, just keep an eye on the early signs of gyno and test for it at about 5 weeks.

I never had any gyno symptoms, but got worried that they would show up and started the a-dex with the t as a preventive measure. I am also on a small weekly dose of HCG. I have about 20%body fat which is not good when trying to lower/control E.

In my case - I started out with a low total t and imo this is what happened:

The inj test c worked - raising total T.
The a-dex worked - although still in the upper range it was lowering the ratio, increasing total and free t even more.
The HCG was working - increasing total T and therby increasing E2 as well.

I ended at week five with total T around 1400 (upper end of range was like 800).

If you are going to not continue with any form of T, I think you should be ok with no PCT after one shot - but others here might have a different opinion.

My advise to you is to find a doctor who will get the correct blood work done, diagnose the cause of your low t, and tailor your program based on your levels and condition. If you do it right, your quality of life will be better than it has been in many years or better than it has ever been. If you wing it - it might take you months to find the sweet spot and many trial and errors - I know from experience.

Good luck to you.

 

[kingplaya4]

Very comprehensive answer, thank you. I am in South Asia, and have a limited choice of doctors, in fact as far as I can determine, this guy is the only game in town. He does seem to be willing to prescribe what I ask him to, so I need to find out exactly what I should do. Are these weekly hcg shots necessary, and what dosage? (I'm also 20% bodyfat, so probably shouldn't go too high.

 

[goin on 4T]

Ask your Dr. to test you for these:

CBC
Chem-20
Complete Thyroid screen (T-3 uptake, Total T4, Free T4, total T3, Free T3, Free T4 index, TSH, TBG)
Prolactin
Total test
Free test
LH, FSH
Estrogen level (preferably estradiol, estrone and estriol but some idea of estrogen is better than none)
ACTH
Cortisol

 

[flatscat]

Very comprehensive answer, thank you. I am in South Asia, and have a limited choice of doctors, in fact as far as I can determine, this guy is the only game in town. He does seem to be willing to prescribe what I ask him to, so I need to find out exactly what I should do. Are these weekly hcg shots necessary, and what dosage? (I'm also 20% bodyfat, so probably shouldn't go too high.

Try to get the test that Going On 4T showed you.

Weekly HCG necessary? I don't think anyone would say yes. Many don't. It is popular with HRT doc's in the US. If you could find out if you are indeed primary or secondary, if you want to have kids in the future, and if you are afraid of atrophy then you might want to consider HCG either low dose weekly or cycled higher dose every ten or twelve weeks. There are also other pct's that many use.

Read up here in this forum - there are many experiences shared and you will be able to come up with a plan to present to your doc if you need to. Everyone is different and you can't say a particular dose will be right for you.

I think a lot of guys here would say that you should start with 100mg/week of t and get the level retested about week 5 and go from there. If you wanted to start a-dex you might consider .5 twice/week. But without knowing what your E2 level is to begin with it will be hard to tell what is going on in your body - along with the other things Goin On said to test for. This is why it is important to establish a baseline.

I am guessing now that with your BF, your E2 level is higher than it should be. When you lose the BF, trt should work better for you and it will be easier to nail down a good protocol.

 

[kingplaya4]

Well the effects of my first shot already seem "shot" so to speak. I only seemed to have improved erections for three days, not the two or three weeks I was promised. Energy levels are also close to baseline, one week later. I'm not going to have a chance to get a blood test anytime soon, (too busy with work) so what are you best guesses as to why it lasted such a short time?

 

[goin on 4T]

Here is a little read for you.
Testosterone cypionate is an injectable oil which contains testosterone with the cypionate ester attached to the testosterone molecule. The ester denotes the release pattern of the test after it is injected into the body. This particular ester gives the testosterone an active life of 15-16 days, although blood levels of this drug fall sharply five days post-administration, testosterone levels are still above baseline after a week (24). Stable blood levels can be achieved with once per week injections.

 

[thelion2005]

I'm 28 and after two years of some monotype illness that doctors can't seem to find the cause of, my total T is only 275. In my early twenties it was only 400, but somehow such a small drop has made a huge difference in my sex drive and energy.

Anyway, to get to the point, I've moved overseas to get work and finally decided to visit an anti-aging doctor to deal with my lack of energy. He tested me at 275 and recommended nebido, a three month lasting test shot. A few days ago I got a shot of depo testosterone which he said would last 2 or 3 weeks.

Now I know this technically is the wrong forum, but after doing a lot of reading online, it sounds like the bodybuilders know more than most of the doctors do. Anyway, my doctor hasn't mentioned a thing about estrogen blockers such as Arimidex or hcg shots for possible testicle shrinkage.

So here are my questions: does it take a long time for testosterone to turn into estrogen or can this happen on the first shot? Is an estrogen blocker standard for TRT or do they usually blood test to see if estrogen's being raised or not? Are hcg shots necessary with the first shot, or only when some "shrinkage" is noticed? And lastly, I'm a little broke now, can I do okay without a postcyle therapy for just a single shot? (He dosed me to try to get me to about 900 total)

Any input would be highly appreciated.

I have been on a HRT program for years and can describe that to you for a base line of treatment. This program is the result of administration to hundreds on older men through a leading hospital in Ann Arbor, MI.

The objective is to maximize health, not to be a body builder. However, like you have seen, body builders have advanced knowledge in drugs, exercise and diet.

I am confused by injections and shots that last months. I found that a daily or twice weekly dose at lower dosages to be smoother on the system and give steady results. So IME and IMO ... 2 shots of 50-75 mg of test p or daily application of a topical are sufficient.

My plan then adds 1 iu of HGH eod ... plus 0.5 mg of adex Thurs am and Sun pm.

Diet is high protein and low sugar with lots of veggies.

Exercise is push/leg & abs/pull/rest.

Lots of recovery.

Results are outstanding blood test numbers against ranges and robust health.

I also get crazy 3 times a year and do a cycle of 2-3 aas stacked. This is for fun and always leaves me heavier and stronger. I keep 5 to 10% of the gain. This doesn't should like much but it means 5 to 10 pounds of muscle. Once I am over 225, I stop looking for 30 lbs jump. I start looking like a truck at 240 +.

 

[kingplaya4]

Wanted to say thanks to the replies, especially 4T's, the text you gave me answered me question perfectly. I'm going to ask this in my other thread as well, but I'm wondering what will give me more of a short term energy boost, a shot of HG or another shot of test? No, I'm not trying to muscle build, but I've started working two jobs and need an energy boost before I get fired at one of them. I'm going back to the States this July and hope I can get some good medical care then, but I need something to tide me over in the meantime.

 

[goin on 4T]

Get some tests done on your thyroid. Find out what your Complete Thyroid screen (T-3 uptake, Total T4, Free T4, total T3, Free T3, Free T4 index, TSH, TBG)
levels are. Damn, how is your weight?