New Study out on Low Carb Diets

[jay_the_man]

Interesting articles, new studies..

Low Carb Diet:
http://drkoop.com/template.asp?page=newsdetail&ap=93&id=8005871
http://health.discovery.com/news/afp/20030407/lowcarb.html
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030407-030718-4538r


About Low Carb Bars:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0303/energybar.asp
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1296

 

[OXANDRIN]

good post there.....

i think low carb diets are a way to get rid of water. for 1 carbs hold water. and 2 protien acts like a diuretic.

also its tough to get alot of calories when you don't get any carbs. i mean yeah fat has double the calories but most people don't indulge in fats while dieting. generally people take in less calories resulting in weight loss....


now being in ketosis def does something to the body....and i'm not sure how but it seems to help fat people lose weight fast. i find that ckd, tkd, etc are a waste of time. calorie ristriction is the only way to lose weight and fat....even if you lose some muscle in the process

 

[bignate73]

it just seems that the first law of thermodynamics.......is still true.

atkins...cardiologist? or registered dietician/nutritionist?



seems like a muffler tech, telling someone how to fix an electrical problem. same vehicle...different system.

hmm....

 

[frankenfurter]

Hard to argue with what works. I lost 75 pounds on Atkins, so if even if it's water weight, I'll take it. Now that I am lifting heavy, I find that a low-carb (60-80g) gives me enough energy to lift while still cutting down. The fats that atkins/keto diets allow is the key I think - they fill you up and make you feel less deprived.

That said, I don't think it's for everyone. As always, YMMV.

 

[Vibrantred94gt]

THose articles are wrong in a sense. YOu can do the atkins diet and eat more calories than you could on a well balanced diet and loose alot more weight in a lot less time!

I am doing ckd right now, week 3 and lost 15 "hard to loose" pounds. I have not been counting calories, but have been doing cardoi and weight lifting. I carb up once a week.

Lets face it, the doctors and nutritionasts of the world are having a hard time admitting that a cardio vascular doctor might be onto something. Something that totally contradicts everything they have told all americans to do for years!

The doctors and nutritionasts are ruunning scared. What are they going to do, come out and say...Gee Mr. Atkins is right, all these years we've been telling you to eat a high carb low fat diet, we were wrong. Sorry bout that. (now that millions are obese and dieing of heart disease)

Not saying The atkins is the cure all. Just saying that if it is, you gotta look at the bigger picture. I for one, have seen at least 20 people eat way over the daily caloric limit and loose a lot of weight on the atkins diet.

Food for thought!

 

[jay_the_man]

It's all so confusing. I guess you just need to find what works for you and run with it..

 

[Ceebs]

It's a shame that excercise as a means of weight loss isn't trumpeted as loudly as the macronutrient du jour.

 

[TheBigCEE]

Low Carb Diets



I read the articles and they all appear to be based on the same study. They don't reference a ketosis diet specifically, just 'low carbs'. Also, they talk about 'weight' and not 'fat'. This is typical disinformation, from where and why, who knows. (Dr C. Everette Koop was once the Surgeon General of the US, so that makes him suspect.)
It's true that on a low carb diet that you may not lose weight, it depends on other mitigating factors. It's also true that you may not lose weight on a ketosis diet. There's plenty of calories, but you WILL lose fat.
Whenever we quote or post articles we should look past the agenda. The real study would be a good reference point because then we could get the facts in their entirety, not just the facts that help support one's position.
Remember, for decades the medical establishment (controlled by government) insisted that steriods don't work. They know even less about nutrition.....
Ceeb, I here you, but in this forum we're all trying to get the fat off while maintaining as much muscle as possible. The old days of mongo cardio sessions are gone forever...

 

[bignate73]

It's a shame that excercise as a means of weight loss isn't trumpeted as loudly as the macronutrient du jour.

this is because probably 90% of gym members that work out hard, but pay no attention to how they are eating...are not changing.

abs are made in the kitchen.

 

[bignate73]

ps...im interested in seeing how people are eating over their caloric maintenance....and losing bodyfat. thats either a miscalculation of maint. cals or an somehow we have figured out how to lose while in a surplus (which isnt likely).

 

[SeymourCuts]

The fact that I and most people have been able to increase or at the very least retain strength on weight-loss diets that involve low-carb cycling while alternatively not being able to do so on other types of diets without external anabolic aid is enough evidence to me of their place for people wishing to better their bodies aesthetically.

There was a recent study showing that dieting unaccompanied by exercise shows tendancies towards fat burning from in and around internal organs rather than subcutaneous fat stores. Exercise is necessary too for that reason as well as just the issue of muscle tone and retention. Look at what's-his-face from Subway. He's a muscle-less beanpole. My uncle who was somewhat muscular looking many, many moons ago before becoming obese, gained a similar look through months of Atkins dieting. And Kate Moss when it comes to women. They are essentially nothing more than skin and bones and a minimal amount of muscle that happens to be quite soft. I don't know of anyone who thinks these particular looks are all that attractive. Widespread employment of a combination of exercise and (proper) diet and possibly stress-relief techniques such as meditation is key to getting at the issue of obesity and it's aesthetic as well as health-related problems such as heart disease and diabetes.

Carbs play an important role in sacroplasmic muscle tissue over the short and long term, and subsequently sarcomeric muscle tissue over the long term, that's why I disapprove of long term "no-carb" dieting.

 

[DanielBishop]

It's ALL calories in vs calories out.

You'll find that many of the low carb diets are just hypocaloric diets in disguise.... when you cut out carbs, you actually cut out a lot of fat as well (from cookies, cakes, pastries, fried carb stuff).... so while you think you're eating a lot of fat, you're probably eating much less than a regular day.

I found it interesting that people regard the low carb thing as a "new wave".... actually, it's been around since the late 1800's.... apparently a British undertaker was the first one to invent the low-carb diet. Yet low-fat diets have only been around since the 50's and 60's.

There was also a brief phase where some people came out with a low-protein diet.... and the few who tried it, did lose weight. Lots and lots of weight. And they kept it off. Permanently. Because they died.

There's many ways to do it, but they're all just means to the same end.... which is eating less calories than you burn.

 

[Toozee]

There was also a brief phase where some people came out with a low-protein diet.... and the few who tried it, did lose weight. Lots and lots of weight. And they kept it off. Permanently. Because they died

LMAO..... A-men.

 

[Babyfaced Assassin]

My cousin has been put on a high Carb low fat low protein diet by the docs cos of his kidneys... I personally reckon this is gonna be worse for him and my estimation of doctors has fallen yet more

 

[MS]

I have a very large file of research dating back as far as 1977 that clearly shows there is no metabolic advantage to very low carb/high fat diets for fat loss. It is true whether you're male or female, obese or diabetic, and whether you 'count' calories or not. They even put folks in whole body calorimeters to see if there is any metabolic difference, and found none. All the evidence (not just that study that started this thread) indicates that very low carb diets work merely because they kill appetite, thus resulting in reduced calories like any other hypocaloric diet. I don't see how any clear-thinking person could believe otherwise. However, if fats are your preference or you find a low carb diet easier to stick to, then that is the diet you should use. No need to infer any magical metabolic advantage.

Babyfaced: someone should tell your cousin's doc about soy protein for folks with kidney problems.

 

[ProteinFiend]

Explain ketosis and ketones bring present in the bloodstream as well as urine... You should find your answer there.

I have a very large file of research dating back as far as 1977 that clearly shows there is no metabolic advantage to very low carb/high fat diets for fat loss. It is true whether you're male or female, obese or diabetic, and whether you 'count' calories or not. They even put folks in whole body calorimeters to see if there is any metabolic difference, and found none. All the evidence (not just that study that started this thread) indicates that very low carb diets work merely because they kill appetite, thus resulting in reduced calories like any other hypocaloric diet. I don't see how any clear-thinking person could believe otherwise. However, if fats are your preference or you find a low carb diet easier to stick to, then that is the diet you should use. No need to infer any magical metabolic advantage.

Babyfaced: someone should tell your cousin's doc about soy protein for folks with kidney problems.

 

[Scythian_Blade]

MS...I know what you say is very true. I too have seen references to studies showing no advantage to ketogenic styled diets over other hypocaloric diets for cutting purposes. I have to disagree with your statement questioning how a clear minded person could think otherwise though. And here is my logic...

There are a number of handwaving ways you can explain why atkins and other ketogenic diets sometimes appear more beneficial. The reduction in appetite on keto and the fact that most people haven't a clue how to run a cutting cycle using clean carbs are just a couple of examples. But this isn't always true. For me, appetite seems to be nominally supressed in keto. I could bulk using it without feeling too stuffed. I think the only way to come to a good conclusion is to look at it through scientific studies (such as the ones you mention) and biochemically.

Clearly, biochemically, the comparison between a keto diet (ckd for example) and a carb based diet (40/40/20 for example) will yield two very distinct situations hormonally and otherwise.

One advantage to a ketogenic diet that I can't seem to get past is the basic use of EFA's to mobilize fat stores (and all other beneficial roles played by EFA's). Also, there seems to be some good evidence that other clean fats possess thermogenic properties that carbohydrates lack. Nothing magical or groundbreaking, granted but... It seems that with a lower carbohydrate intake and greater EFA/clean fat intake, that this effect would be more pronounced in a ketogenic state. At least in theory it should lead to some sort of different metabolic response for some ppl imo.

I understand the utlility of carbohydrates in promoting anabolism in general and can certainly see the other side of the coin. Maybe this partly explains why either approach is successful. I also realize that achieving ketosis may not be such an important part of the success of ketogenic diets (my understanding is that ketones are utilized for energy to a small degree in most situation, but to a much larger degree in ketosis)

There are a number of angles to take on the whole issue obviously.

For me there is more than enough information to conclude that a ketogenic diet (or carb based diet) could easily work far better for some people than for others. I just cannot accept that because there is no meaninful statistical difference in studies that this necessarily indicates keto diets are not more suited for some individuals than others.

MS...finally I am curious if you disagree with my basic premise of keto diets being more useful for some than others from a biochemical perspective. I don't even pretend to have a strong background in biochemistry and am looking to learn more about this from a technical perspective. Can you or anyone else shed some light on the matter?


-Blade

 

[Scythian_Blade]

ps...im interested in seeing how people are eating over their caloric maintenance....and losing bodyfat. thats either a miscalculation of maint. cals or an somehow we have figured out how to lose while in a surplus (which isnt likely).

I don't really have a problem believing this to be possible. I think meal combinations, macronutrient ratios, and basic food choices can all influence BMR. I think you are right in that it is often a gross miscalculation of BMR upon switching to a new diet with completely different foods. Thermodynamically, they are obvious burning more energy than they consume (or equivalently altering body composition from fat burning to building muscle tissue. I have had it hammered into my head so many times that a calorie is not a calorie and with good reason.

 

[Babyfaced Assassin]

there's a study to prove that our bodies don't look for a certain breakdown of macronutrients in a meal to be satisfied rather the total amount of calories.
therefore perhaps the high fat/protein low carb thing about it satiates you better than carbs is really because you are eating a similar number of calories since fat is more calorie dense than carbs
when i was trying a 10% carb diet i would kill off my apetite by having heavy cream and whey protein in the morning and yeah i'd be full till lunch but that's still around 600 calories, if i ate 600 calories in carbs and protein i'd still be satisfied.

 

[krayziefresh]

The doctors and nutritionasts are ruunning scared. What are they going to do, come out and say...Gee Mr. Atkins is right, all these years we've been telling you to eat a high carb low fat diet, we were wrong. Sorry bout that. (now that millions are obese and dieing of heart disease

LoL, somehow I doubt thats why so many americans are dieing of obesity and heart disease. Did somebody say McDonalds

 

[Shark01]

The increase in obesity, believe it or not, has been caused by replacing dietary fat with sugary carbohydrates. In the past 20+ years, we have reduced fat intake 30% and gotten 35% fatter. I mean have you ever looked at the nutritional information on those fat-free products

I have lost almost 120 lbs doing primarily low carb dieting. It just works better for me. I would much rather have bacon for breakfast and steak for dinner than the low fat alternatives.

But every diet that works must follow the energy equation:

Energy in (calories) < energy out = losing weight

Oh and RIP Dr Atkins.......I must have taken real guts to have such an unpopular stance all these years, just to see how visionary it looks now

 

[poantrex]

I have a very large file of research dating back as far as 1977 that clearly shows there is no metabolic advantage to very low carb/high fat diets for fat loss. It is true whether you're male or female, obese or diabetic, and whether you 'count' calories or not. They even put folks in whole body calorimeters to see if there is any metabolic difference, and found none. All the evidence (not just that study that started this thread) indicates that very low carb diets work merely because they kill appetite, thus resulting in reduced calories like any other hypocaloric diet. I don't see how any clear-thinking person could believe otherwise. However, if fats are your preference or you find a low carb diet easier to stick to, then that is the diet you should use. No need to infer any magical metabolic advantage.

Babyfaced: someone should tell your cousin's doc about soy protein for folks with kidney problems.

Uh. They work because your pancreas will secrete much less insulin than it would with the classic high carbohydrate diet. Fat burning is impaired when insulin is present...hence why low carb diets work.