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THeMaCHinE
New member
decadense said:
BackDoc says R-type is available from Jarrow; from what I understand, most ALA on the market is S-type. Racemic mixtures of R and S (as you are referring to) also exist.
New Ala Results Post
- Thread starter tyguy
- Start date
BackDoc says R-type is available from Jarrow; from what I understand, most ALA on the market is S-type. Racemic mixtures of R and S (as you are referring to) also exist.
THeMaCHinE
New member
Bumping this for rangerx's imput...
THeMaCHinE said:
THeMaCHinE said:
That's true. Jarrow started offering it very recently. But I didn't see it on their web page. Anyone know the prices?
The lipoic acid available everywhere is definately a 50/50 mixture of R and S (the new designations for L and D, respectively.) It is expensive to separate them. S is not good and might be harmful in high amounts from what I have read.
THeMaCHinE
New member
decadense said:
This is interesting information, I've not heard this before -- can you elaborate? How is it bad for you? In what doses? In what durations? Also, I would love to read any research materials/abstracts you ran across this material in...
I'm sorry, I don't know the pricing on the R-type -- BackDoc seems pretty well versed on it though, drop him a PM or start a thread over on the supplement board...
Here's a couple so far:
Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.
Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ.
Department of Physiology, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721-0093, USA.
The racemic mixture of the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant humans and animals. We determined the individual effects of the pure R-(+) and S-(-) enantiomers of ALA on glucose metabolism in skeletal muscle of an animal model of insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and dyslipidemia: the obese Zucker (fa/fa) rat. Obese rats were treated intraperitoneally acutely (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) or chronically [10 days with 30 mg/kg of R-(+)-ALA or 50 mg/kg of S-(-)-ALA]. Glucose transport [2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) uptake], glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nM). Acutely, R-(+)-ALA increased insulin-mediated 2-DG-uptake by 64% (P < 0.05), whereas S-(-)-ALA had no significant effect. Although chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment significantly reduced plasma insulin (17%) and free fatty acids (FFA; 35%) relative to vehicle-treated obese animals, S-(-)-ALA treatment further increased insulin (15%) and had no effect on FFA. Insulin-stimulated 2-DG uptake was increased by 65% by chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment, whereas S-(-)-ALA administration resulted in only a 29% improvement. Chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment elicited a 26% increase in insulin-stimulated glycogen synthesis and a 33% enhancement of insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation. No significant increase in these parameters was observed after S-(-)-ALA treatment. Glucose transporter (GLUT-4) protein was unchanged after chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment but was reduced to 81 +/- 6% of obese control with S-(-)-ALA treatment. Therefore, chronic parenteral treatment with the antioxidant ALA enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and non-oxidative and oxidative glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle, with the R-(+) enantiomer being much more effective than the S-(-) enantiomer.
--
Different Forms of Lipoic Acid
A new study4 examined the effects of supplementing old rats with (R)-lipoic
acid. Lipoic acid is a disulfide compound found in mitochondria which acts
as a coenzyme for the functions of pyruvate dehydrogenase and
alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase. The (R)-form of lipoic acid used in this
study is the naturally-occurring form. The paper reports that only the
(R)-form is used by alpha-keto acid dehydrogenases and reduced to the
antioxidant dihydrolipoic acid by mitochondrial lipoamide dehydrogenase.
The authors believe the evidence indicates that (R)-lipoic acid may be a
more potent supplement than the racemic mixture (which contains both (R)
and (S) forms) sold commercially as alpha-lipoic acid. For example, they
cite studies reporting that (R)-lipoic acid increased glucose uptake and
the number of glucose transporters in muscle tissue much more effectively
than (S)-lipoic acid and that the (R)-form more effectively chelated copper
and prevented copper-induced lipid peroxidation. In another study,
(R)-lipoic acid increased ATP synthesis and aortic blood flow during
reoxygenation after hypoxia in a working heart model, but (S)-lipoic acid
had no effect on ATP synthesis and only improved blood flow at ten times
the effective concentration of (R)-lipoic acid.
4. Hagen et al, "(R)-alpha-Lipoic acid-supplemented Old Rats Have
Improved Mitochondrial Function, Decreased Oxidative Damage, and
Increased Metabolic Rate," FASEB J13:411-418 (1999)
Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.
Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ.
Department of Physiology, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721-0093, USA.
The racemic mixture of the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant humans and animals. We determined the individual effects of the pure R-(+) and S-(-) enantiomers of ALA on glucose metabolism in skeletal muscle of an animal model of insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and dyslipidemia: the obese Zucker (fa/fa) rat. Obese rats were treated intraperitoneally acutely (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) or chronically [10 days with 30 mg/kg of R-(+)-ALA or 50 mg/kg of S-(-)-ALA]. Glucose transport [2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) uptake], glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nM). Acutely, R-(+)-ALA increased insulin-mediated 2-DG-uptake by 64% (P < 0.05), whereas S-(-)-ALA had no significant effect. Although chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment significantly reduced plasma insulin (17%) and free fatty acids (FFA; 35%) relative to vehicle-treated obese animals, S-(-)-ALA treatment further increased insulin (15%) and had no effect on FFA. Insulin-stimulated 2-DG uptake was increased by 65% by chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment, whereas S-(-)-ALA administration resulted in only a 29% improvement. Chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment elicited a 26% increase in insulin-stimulated glycogen synthesis and a 33% enhancement of insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation. No significant increase in these parameters was observed after S-(-)-ALA treatment. Glucose transporter (GLUT-4) protein was unchanged after chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment but was reduced to 81 +/- 6% of obese control with S-(-)-ALA treatment. Therefore, chronic parenteral treatment with the antioxidant ALA enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and non-oxidative and oxidative glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle, with the R-(+) enantiomer being much more effective than the S-(-) enantiomer.
--
Different Forms of Lipoic Acid
A new study4 examined the effects of supplementing old rats with (R)-lipoic
acid. Lipoic acid is a disulfide compound found in mitochondria which acts
as a coenzyme for the functions of pyruvate dehydrogenase and
alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase. The (R)-form of lipoic acid used in this
study is the naturally-occurring form. The paper reports that only the
(R)-form is used by alpha-keto acid dehydrogenases and reduced to the
antioxidant dihydrolipoic acid by mitochondrial lipoamide dehydrogenase.
The authors believe the evidence indicates that (R)-lipoic acid may be a
more potent supplement than the racemic mixture (which contains both (R)
and (S) forms) sold commercially as alpha-lipoic acid. For example, they
cite studies reporting that (R)-lipoic acid increased glucose uptake and
the number of glucose transporters in muscle tissue much more effectively
than (S)-lipoic acid and that the (R)-form more effectively chelated copper
and prevented copper-induced lipid peroxidation. In another study,
(R)-lipoic acid increased ATP synthesis and aortic blood flow during
reoxygenation after hypoxia in a working heart model, but (S)-lipoic acid
had no effect on ATP synthesis and only improved blood flow at ten times
the effective concentration of (R)-lipoic acid.
4. Hagen et al, "(R)-alpha-Lipoic acid-supplemented Old Rats Have
Improved Mitochondrial Function, Decreased Oxidative Damage, and
Increased Metabolic Rate," FASEB J13:411-418 (1999)
Check out this page:
http://www.r-lipoic.com/index_1.htm
From that page:
Your Two-Faced Lipoic Acid -
Why Half of Your Lipoic Acid is Working Against You?And What You Can Do About It
If you're taking a conventional lipoic acid pill, then you need to know that the health-promoting, anti-aging benefits associated with this nutrient are only being delivered by half of your supplement. The other half is worse than useless: it actually antagonizes the effects of the good half of the supplement. To put it bluntly: the lipoic acid you're taking harbors both a hero ? and an "evil twin."
Many molecules used by the body have a specific "handedness" (chirality). For example, alpha-tocopherol, or essential fatty acids. In some cases, synthetic versions of these molecules have a different "handedness" than the natural molecule. You're probably familiar with some examples of this phenomenon, such as natural d- vs. synthetic dl-alpha-tocopherolor natural cis- vs. unnatural trans-fatty acids.
Some of these artificial molecules are merely less potent than the natural forms, such as in the case of dl-alpha-tocopherol. But others are actually harmful - for example, trans-fatty acids.
Unless they specify otherwise, "lipoic acid" supplements are a 50/50 mixture of the natural R(+)-lipoic acid, and the synthetic S(-)-lipoic acid. These mixtures are called "racemates." In some cases, S(-)-lipoic acid - or the racemate - is simply less effective than R(+)-lipoic acid. But in other cases, the S(-)-form actually acts in opposition to the
Tell me more ?
Glucose Metabolism
Insulin resistance, in which the cells of the body stop responding properly to the hormone insulin, happens to some degree in almost all of us as we age.
Insulin resistance causes higher levels of insulin, blood sugar, and free fatty acids, all of which are threats to your health.
Lipoic acid has been used to support healthy blood sugar metabolism. Scientists have compared the effects of the two "lipoic acid" molecules seperately.
R(+)-lipoic acid has emerged as the active ingredient in the racemate. R(+)-lipoic acid fights all of the major effects of insulin resistance. The S(-)-form either does not help in these areas, or even makes things worse.
Tell me more ?
Antioxidant Defenses
Lipoic acid is known as a powerful and versatile antioxidant .
R(+)-lipoic acid is more easily absorbed and taken into the cells than S(-)-lipoic acid.
Both forms of lipoic acid can be made more powerful by "charging" them up into their DHLA form. R(+)-lipoic acid is "upgraded" much more rapidly than S(-)-lipoic acid.
Many studies have found that R(+)-lipoic acid provides much more effective protection than S(-)-lipoic acid or the racemate. In some cases, the S(-)-lipoic acid actually counteracts the effects of R(+)-lipoic acid.
Tell me more ?
Neurological Health
Lipoic acid is known for its ability to protect brain and nerve cells from free radicals and toxins.
Excessive levels of "transition metals" such as iron, copper, and cadmium are believed to play an important role in many neurological disorders. Having too much free iron in a key part of the brain has been implicated as a cause of Parkinson's disease, for example.
An animal study using R(+)-lipoic acid found that it was able to significantly reduce age-related buildup of iron in the brain. Other studies suggest that S(-)-lipoic acid will not work as well.
Tell me more ?
Mitochondrial Function
The biggest source of free radicals in your body are your cellular "power plants," the mitochondria. They are both the origin, and the target, of most of the free radical damage in the body.
As we age, our mitochondria become less and less efficient, generating less and less energy while creating more and more free radicals.
R(+)-lipoic acid, in animal experiments and in test-tube studies, makes mitochondria more efficient, so that they produce more energy and create fewer free radicals.
S(-)-lipoic acid does not have these effects, and may antagonize the action of R(+)-lipoic acid.
These benefits have a real impact on the organism. Animals undergoing a simulated heart attack recover heart function more rapidly when infused with R(+)-lipoic acid; S(-)-lipoic acid has no effect.
Old animals supplemented with lipoic acid look better and are more active.
S(-)-lipoic acid does not have these effects.
Tell me more ?
Fundamental Aging
Nearly all researchers into the biology of aging agree that the decay of mitochondrial function is a major engine of the aging process.
Caloric restriction, with adequate nutrition, is the only proven way to slow down the fundamental aging process in mammals.
Many of the benefits of R(+)-lipoic acid closely mimic those of caloric restriction. R(+)-lipoic acid's effects on mitochondrial function are its most striking and unique parallel with caloric restriction.
A study in a short-lived strain of mouse demonstrated that R(+)-lipoic acid can dramatically increase its lifespan. Neither S(-)-lipoic acid, nor the racemate, had any significant effect.
The National Institutes on Aging are currently funding studies to see if lipoic acid can truly slow down the aging process.
Tell me more ?
The Bottom Line
Common "lipoic acid" supplements are thus like a house at war with itself. The S(-)-form should be removed from supplements in favor of pure R(+)-lipoic acid.
What Researchers Say About the Two Lipoic Acids?
"We're finding - and others are, too - that the R(+)-form - the natural form - is much more powerful than the racemic mixture ... Hopefully ... companies are going to be producing on more of a clinical scale the R(+)-form of lipoic acid, because we're finding very significant effects using this, as opposed to the racemic mixture."
Dr. Tory Hagen, in Mitochondrial Decay in Aging.
"We have presented in this study new information indicating that this enhancement of glucose metabolism is sterospecific, with the R(+)-enantiomer being much more effective than the S(-)- enantiomer."
Dr. Ryan and colleagues, in The American Journal of Physiology.
"Lipoic acid sold in a health food store is a synthetic mixture, a racemic mixture. And R[+]- is the natural form and S[-]- is an unnatural one ... And in our hands R[+]- works and S[-]- doesn't."
Dr. Bruce Ames, in Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence.
"R[+]-LA [that is, R(+)-lipoic acid], and not a racemic mixture of R[+]-and S[-]- LA, should be considered a choice for therapeutic applications."
Dr. Lester Packer and colleagues, in Free Radical Biology and Medicine.
"The S[-]-enantiomer ? part of the racemate, which is present as about a 50% impurity, needs to be eliminated."
Dr. Guido Zimmer and colleagues, in Methods in Enzymoogy.
--
http://www.r-lipoic.com/index_1.htm
From that page:
Your Two-Faced Lipoic Acid -
Why Half of Your Lipoic Acid is Working Against You?And What You Can Do About It
If you're taking a conventional lipoic acid pill, then you need to know that the health-promoting, anti-aging benefits associated with this nutrient are only being delivered by half of your supplement. The other half is worse than useless: it actually antagonizes the effects of the good half of the supplement. To put it bluntly: the lipoic acid you're taking harbors both a hero ? and an "evil twin."
Many molecules used by the body have a specific "handedness" (chirality). For example, alpha-tocopherol, or essential fatty acids. In some cases, synthetic versions of these molecules have a different "handedness" than the natural molecule. You're probably familiar with some examples of this phenomenon, such as natural d- vs. synthetic dl-alpha-tocopherolor natural cis- vs. unnatural trans-fatty acids.
Some of these artificial molecules are merely less potent than the natural forms, such as in the case of dl-alpha-tocopherol. But others are actually harmful - for example, trans-fatty acids.
Unless they specify otherwise, "lipoic acid" supplements are a 50/50 mixture of the natural R(+)-lipoic acid, and the synthetic S(-)-lipoic acid. These mixtures are called "racemates." In some cases, S(-)-lipoic acid - or the racemate - is simply less effective than R(+)-lipoic acid. But in other cases, the S(-)-form actually acts in opposition to the
Tell me more ?
Glucose Metabolism
Insulin resistance, in which the cells of the body stop responding properly to the hormone insulin, happens to some degree in almost all of us as we age.
Insulin resistance causes higher levels of insulin, blood sugar, and free fatty acids, all of which are threats to your health.
Lipoic acid has been used to support healthy blood sugar metabolism. Scientists have compared the effects of the two "lipoic acid" molecules seperately.
R(+)-lipoic acid has emerged as the active ingredient in the racemate. R(+)-lipoic acid fights all of the major effects of insulin resistance. The S(-)-form either does not help in these areas, or even makes things worse.
Tell me more ?
Antioxidant Defenses
Lipoic acid is known as a powerful and versatile antioxidant .
R(+)-lipoic acid is more easily absorbed and taken into the cells than S(-)-lipoic acid.
Both forms of lipoic acid can be made more powerful by "charging" them up into their DHLA form. R(+)-lipoic acid is "upgraded" much more rapidly than S(-)-lipoic acid.
Many studies have found that R(+)-lipoic acid provides much more effective protection than S(-)-lipoic acid or the racemate. In some cases, the S(-)-lipoic acid actually counteracts the effects of R(+)-lipoic acid.
Tell me more ?
Neurological Health
Lipoic acid is known for its ability to protect brain and nerve cells from free radicals and toxins.
Excessive levels of "transition metals" such as iron, copper, and cadmium are believed to play an important role in many neurological disorders. Having too much free iron in a key part of the brain has been implicated as a cause of Parkinson's disease, for example.
An animal study using R(+)-lipoic acid found that it was able to significantly reduce age-related buildup of iron in the brain. Other studies suggest that S(-)-lipoic acid will not work as well.
Tell me more ?
Mitochondrial Function
The biggest source of free radicals in your body are your cellular "power plants," the mitochondria. They are both the origin, and the target, of most of the free radical damage in the body.
As we age, our mitochondria become less and less efficient, generating less and less energy while creating more and more free radicals.
R(+)-lipoic acid, in animal experiments and in test-tube studies, makes mitochondria more efficient, so that they produce more energy and create fewer free radicals.
S(-)-lipoic acid does not have these effects, and may antagonize the action of R(+)-lipoic acid.
These benefits have a real impact on the organism. Animals undergoing a simulated heart attack recover heart function more rapidly when infused with R(+)-lipoic acid; S(-)-lipoic acid has no effect.
Old animals supplemented with lipoic acid look better and are more active.
S(-)-lipoic acid does not have these effects.
Tell me more ?
Fundamental Aging
Nearly all researchers into the biology of aging agree that the decay of mitochondrial function is a major engine of the aging process.
Caloric restriction, with adequate nutrition, is the only proven way to slow down the fundamental aging process in mammals.
Many of the benefits of R(+)-lipoic acid closely mimic those of caloric restriction. R(+)-lipoic acid's effects on mitochondrial function are its most striking and unique parallel with caloric restriction.
A study in a short-lived strain of mouse demonstrated that R(+)-lipoic acid can dramatically increase its lifespan. Neither S(-)-lipoic acid, nor the racemate, had any significant effect.
The National Institutes on Aging are currently funding studies to see if lipoic acid can truly slow down the aging process.
Tell me more ?
The Bottom Line
Common "lipoic acid" supplements are thus like a house at war with itself. The S(-)-form should be removed from supplements in favor of pure R(+)-lipoic acid.
What Researchers Say About the Two Lipoic Acids?
"We're finding - and others are, too - that the R(+)-form - the natural form - is much more powerful than the racemic mixture ... Hopefully ... companies are going to be producing on more of a clinical scale the R(+)-form of lipoic acid, because we're finding very significant effects using this, as opposed to the racemic mixture."
Dr. Tory Hagen, in Mitochondrial Decay in Aging.
"We have presented in this study new information indicating that this enhancement of glucose metabolism is sterospecific, with the R(+)-enantiomer being much more effective than the S(-)- enantiomer."
Dr. Ryan and colleagues, in The American Journal of Physiology.
"Lipoic acid sold in a health food store is a synthetic mixture, a racemic mixture. And R[+]- is the natural form and S[-]- is an unnatural one ... And in our hands R[+]- works and S[-]- doesn't."
Dr. Bruce Ames, in Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence.
"R[+]-LA [that is, R(+)-lipoic acid], and not a racemic mixture of R[+]-and S[-]- LA, should be considered a choice for therapeutic applications."
Dr. Lester Packer and colleagues, in Free Radical Biology and Medicine.
"The S[-]-enantiomer ? part of the racemate, which is present as about a 50% impurity, needs to be eliminated."
Dr. Guido Zimmer and colleagues, in Methods in Enzymoogy.
--
THeMaCHinE said:
I take 300-400mg 5HTP everyday. No problem interactions with ALA.
ZMA sounds like a good idea although a general multimineral supplement might be better and cheaper...(ZMA may not cover all the minerals lost)
I use vitamine shoppe psyllum usk capsules. I take 6-10 with a fatty meal (such as bbqd spareribs). Maybe more if I really pig out.
Care must be taken, when also using ALA. This is because ALA dissolves in oil (as well as water), and if the oil is absorbed by the psyllum husk, you will lose a substantial portion of ALA.
Just take the ALA first, eat some for a few minutes, then take the psyllum husk capsules and finish eating...
rangerx83
Delinquent
Well-known member
Who would of thought that this simple substance could be this powerful. Great thread guys
THeMaCHinE
New member
decadense said:
Decadense,
What can I say but, damn, great info; props to you for digging it all up and posting it. I am going to have to look very closely at this topic...
Karma to you...
