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Nelson Montana - Short cycle questions
- Thread starter Smurfi
- Start date
@ Nelson
Thanks for your reply !
- do you mean with " improved PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - " Unleashed and
Post cycle ?
I guess, that Clomid still sucks ... ( that has not changed
since your first article)
- I know a few guys, who did some short cycles, who told me, that they didn´t fell any difference in recovery of
libido between a 4-weeker and a 6-weeker.
but if they did a longer cycle, exactly after the 6/7th week
recovery is much much harder !
that is exactly what you wrote.
so for most people 6 weeks seems to be the limit for a short cycle.
- you are right, it is an individual thing, if somebody has
to stop injecting after 30 days, so he will be off after 6 weeks. but some can still recover well, when they inject some Primobolan - methenolone - in week 5 or 6. but I think Test should be stopped after 30 days.
- Frontload:
here is a link of a short cycle "guru" of an other forum, who tries to convince people, that a frontload is very very important for a short cycle:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=285264&highlight=frontloading+explained
when you look at the numbers, you will see that without a frontload in the first week there is 250 mg test in the blood, 2nd 375 , 3rd 437 ... 7th 498 mg.
the frontload will bring your blood level up to 500 mg
after one week.
BUT : will you see or feel any difference , if you have
250 mg or 500 mg in your blood in the first or second week ?
I think not.
like you wrote, even long ester steroids start to bring up blood levels very quickly. when you inject 400 mg Primo and 200 mg Test, your body had 300 mg more hormones
in the blood in that first week !
but many report, that Primo and test don´t start working
before week 3 or 4 ( some even later).
I don´t know what they are doing wrong. ( maybe nutrition)
- what do you think about some additional dbol in your
cycle plans ?
Maybe as a kickstarter and/or at the end, when one stops injections after 30 days and levels decline in week 5 and 6 ?
- how long should be the time off ?
other "gurus" recommend for a 6-weeker 6-8 weeks
off. I guess , that is too short in your opinion, right ?
- you always stress, when using Primo, to eat a lot of protein.
in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote that
the old rule 1g for 1 pound bodyweight is enough.
do you still recommend this ?
or is more even better ? Like the Doggcrapp system
recommends up to 2 g/pound. they say protein is the ultimate anabolic and 1g is way to less.
- how much surplus of calories would you recommend ?
is 300-500 calories a day enough ?
a friend of mine, he normally is a low-responder to steroids, but he gained 20 pounds doing a Primo only cycle
( 200 mg a week !) in 12 weeks, eating tons of food.
he told me, when he needs around 2.500 calories a day.
with that amount he can stay at his current weight.
eating 2.600 a day , he was gaining already fat (naturally).
but when he uses steroids, they don´t seem to work
at all, when he eats 2.500 or even 3.000.
no positive and no negative effects, absolutley nothing.
when he increased his calories up to 4.500-5.000, all of a sudden the steroid started to work and his strength increased and his body weight .
but he gained a lot of fat in these 12 weeks too !
he looked much better before ....
in my opinion he was eating way too much calories.
actually he was eating double the amount he needs naturally.
steroids do increase the metabolism, but not to such an
extent.
but he claims, that the Primo doesn´t work if he eats less, he has to accept the fact that he will gain a lot of fat too.
I remember that Bill Phillips wrote in the very first
MM 2000 issue, that steroids increase calorie needs
up to 25 %. that does sound more reasonable to me.
that could be a surplus of 500 -600 calories.
- many other short cycle "gurus " claim, that when one stays off for a long time, dosages don´t have to be increased.
some are doing cycle after cycle with the same low dosage
and still get results ( that´s what they claim ...)
when my friend, who had really good gains with only 200 mg of Primo, stays off for a few months, do you think he could use 200 mg for the next cycles too or is it only a beginner dosage for the very first cycle ?
by the way, he told me , that he had no side effects
( only a lot of extreme sweating, but that could be caused of the extreme eating too ) until week 7, , after week
7, his libido decreased !!!! but only a little bit, but he could feel it.
Thanks !!!
Thanks for your reply !
- do you mean with " improved PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - " Unleashed and
Post cycle ?
I guess, that Clomid still sucks ... ( that has not changed
since your first article)
- I know a few guys, who did some short cycles, who told me, that they didn´t fell any difference in recovery of
libido between a 4-weeker and a 6-weeker.
but if they did a longer cycle, exactly after the 6/7th week
recovery is much much harder !
that is exactly what you wrote.
so for most people 6 weeks seems to be the limit for a short cycle.
- you are right, it is an individual thing, if somebody has
to stop injecting after 30 days, so he will be off after 6 weeks. but some can still recover well, when they inject some Primobolan - methenolone - in week 5 or 6. but I think Test should be stopped after 30 days.
- Frontload:
here is a link of a short cycle "guru" of an other forum, who tries to convince people, that a frontload is very very important for a short cycle:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=285264&highlight=frontloading+explained
when you look at the numbers, you will see that without a frontload in the first week there is 250 mg test in the blood, 2nd 375 , 3rd 437 ... 7th 498 mg.
the frontload will bring your blood level up to 500 mg
after one week.
BUT : will you see or feel any difference , if you have
250 mg or 500 mg in your blood in the first or second week ?
I think not.
like you wrote, even long ester steroids start to bring up blood levels very quickly. when you inject 400 mg Primo and 200 mg Test, your body had 300 mg more hormones
in the blood in that first week !
but many report, that Primo and test don´t start working
before week 3 or 4 ( some even later).
I don´t know what they are doing wrong. ( maybe nutrition)
- what do you think about some additional dbol in your
cycle plans ?
Maybe as a kickstarter and/or at the end, when one stops injections after 30 days and levels decline in week 5 and 6 ?
- how long should be the time off ?
other "gurus" recommend for a 6-weeker 6-8 weeks
off. I guess , that is too short in your opinion, right ?
- you always stress, when using Primo, to eat a lot of protein.
in your book Bottom line Bodybuilding you wrote that
the old rule 1g for 1 pound bodyweight is enough.
do you still recommend this ?
or is more even better ? Like the Doggcrapp system
recommends up to 2 g/pound. they say protein is the ultimate anabolic and 1g is way to less.
- how much surplus of calories would you recommend ?
is 300-500 calories a day enough ?
a friend of mine, he normally is a low-responder to steroids, but he gained 20 pounds doing a Primo only cycle
( 200 mg a week !) in 12 weeks, eating tons of food.
he told me, when he needs around 2.500 calories a day.
with that amount he can stay at his current weight.
eating 2.600 a day , he was gaining already fat (naturally).
but when he uses steroids, they don´t seem to work
at all, when he eats 2.500 or even 3.000.
no positive and no negative effects, absolutley nothing.
when he increased his calories up to 4.500-5.000, all of a sudden the steroid started to work and his strength increased and his body weight .
but he gained a lot of fat in these 12 weeks too !
he looked much better before ....
in my opinion he was eating way too much calories.
actually he was eating double the amount he needs naturally.
steroids do increase the metabolism, but not to such an
extent.
but he claims, that the Primo doesn´t work if he eats less, he has to accept the fact that he will gain a lot of fat too.
I remember that Bill Phillips wrote in the very first
MM 2000 issue, that steroids increase calorie needs
up to 25 %. that does sound more reasonable to me.
that could be a surplus of 500 -600 calories.
- many other short cycle "gurus " claim, that when one stays off for a long time, dosages don´t have to be increased.
some are doing cycle after cycle with the same low dosage
and still get results ( that´s what they claim ...)
when my friend, who had really good gains with only 200 mg of Primo, stays off for a few months, do you think he could use 200 mg for the next cycles too or is it only a beginner dosage for the very first cycle ?
by the way, he told me , that he had no side effects
( only a lot of extreme sweating, but that could be caused of the extreme eating too ) until week 7, , after week
7, his libido decreased !!!! but only a little bit, but he could feel it.
Thanks !!!
Smurfi said:
..
@ Nelson
- how much surplus of calories would you recommend ?
is 300-500 calories a day enough ?
DEPENDS.
do you mean it depends on the individual metabolism ?
my friend is an endo/meso. slow metabolism.
would you recommend more than
500 calories surplus for this body type ?
(ectos could eat of course much much more)
eating over 2.000 surplus, he gained 50/50 muscle/fat
I think.
he lost most of the muscle in the diet later ....
DON;T GET ME STARTED ON DC.
oh, that sounds you are not a big fan of DC, hehe ....
I tried it for a few months; results: strength was good, but nearly no muscle gains.
same applies to HIT/HD .
1-set-to failure isn´t for bodybuilding, maybe that´s the reason why DC fans call DC "Powerbuilding", not Bodybuilding.
I don´t believe in Mentzer´s and DC´s theory:
to build muscle, one must build strength.
my experience is: for muscle gains one must train
intensely with high volume AND change the routine very often ( exercises, reps, rep speed, pauses ...). No program works forever ( also not DC and HST).
Maybe the best would be to have no routine at all, like
you wrote in one of your books (Bodybuilding Truth ?).
Most pros have no routine, they just train hard with a lot of volume and the exercises they like.
They laugh at the skinny guys who plan every workout
in advance on a sheet of paper (HST !!!!).
why do you dislike DC ?
what do you think of HST ?
- Unleashed: should one use it already during the cycle
(to bind sex hormone binding globulin ) or save it for post cycle ?
I think, when one adds some Test to Primmo, the Test
will bind already enough SHBG, the Avena Sativa will not
increase this effect much more.
for a Primmo only cycle maybe some Avena Sativa would
be good.
Thanks !!!
- how much surplus of calories would you recommend ?
is 300-500 calories a day enough ?
DEPENDS.
do you mean it depends on the individual metabolism ?
my friend is an endo/meso. slow metabolism.
would you recommend more than
500 calories surplus for this body type ?
(ectos could eat of course much much more)
eating over 2.000 surplus, he gained 50/50 muscle/fat
I think.
he lost most of the muscle in the diet later ....
DON;T GET ME STARTED ON DC.
oh, that sounds you are not a big fan of DC, hehe ....
I tried it for a few months; results: strength was good, but nearly no muscle gains.
same applies to HIT/HD .
1-set-to failure isn´t for bodybuilding, maybe that´s the reason why DC fans call DC "Powerbuilding", not Bodybuilding.
I don´t believe in Mentzer´s and DC´s theory:
to build muscle, one must build strength.
my experience is: for muscle gains one must train
intensely with high volume AND change the routine very often ( exercises, reps, rep speed, pauses ...). No program works forever ( also not DC and HST).
Maybe the best would be to have no routine at all, like
you wrote in one of your books (Bodybuilding Truth ?).
Most pros have no routine, they just train hard with a lot of volume and the exercises they like.
They laugh at the skinny guys who plan every workout
in advance on a sheet of paper (HST !!!!).
why do you dislike DC ?
what do you think of HST ?
- Unleashed: should one use it already during the cycle
(to bind sex hormone binding globulin ) or save it for post cycle ?
I think, when one adds some Test to Primmo, the Test
will bind already enough SHBG, the Avena Sativa will not
increase this effect much more.
for a Primmo only cycle maybe some Avena Sativa would
be good.
Thanks !!!
ekbenzo said:
The same -- twice the time you were on.
My issues with DC are more personal but he has some great training ideas, I just disagree with some of the tactics. The problem with most guys that use BIG guys as an example of the effectiveness of a routine is in itself flawed. Most of these guys were big to start out with and could tolerate that form of training. Making the scrawny guy more muscular -- THAT takes more knowledge.
Training for strength will make you more muscular as a side effect, and training for more muscle will make you stronger as a side effect. You have to decide which is more important.
UNLEASHED is good any time. I really believe for a bodybuilder it should be regarded as a multi vitamin is -- something you just use everyday.
2raptors
New member
Hey Nelson....I've got my "theoretical" stack in a row.....everything I need to get started...including PCT..."Protein fac's unleashed and PCT". You wrote that unleashed is good anytime...all the time? I saw some comparisons of unleashed against Instone's FORZA-T...(unleashed was rated better...and less $$). I utilized Forza-T only (really, honestly felt that my muscles felt "harder"...but did jack shit in any other area) for 8 weeks..... But now I've got a good supply of Unleashed. Should I utilize it with my upcoming 6 week cycle?
Also....I wanted to ask you about Anavar. What would you think about adding it to the stack? 450ew Prim0, 250ew Sustanon , and maybe 50mg ed anaV? I know that more is not necessarily better..I believe that...but I've read such good things about Anavar too.... Is that OVERKILL for my first ever cycle? I've got the Anavar too...(for the lady to start soon).... just wondering about your thoughts.
Also....I wanted to ask you about Anavar. What would you think about adding it to the stack? 450ew Prim0, 250ew Sustanon , and maybe 50mg ed anaV? I know that more is not necessarily better..I believe that...but I've read such good things about Anavar too.... Is that OVERKILL for my first ever cycle? I've got the Anavar too...(for the lady to start soon).... just wondering about your thoughts.
2raptors said:
Since it's your first cycle, keep it simple. Don't even take the UNLEASHED because it will help you recover. Next time you can add varr and/or UNLEASHED. UNLEASHED will increase available T while on but since you have no reference, go without it. It'll kick in harder once you're off everything and you need it more anyway. I'd recommend VIGOR and BIG BLAST too PC.
2raptors
New member
I'd recommend VIGOR and BIG BLAST too PC.[/QUOTE]
OK...cool. I've got big blast too...., but not VIGOR...I'll get it. Hey, I've (we've) tried EVERYTHING...BSN, Gaspari, Champion, GNC, BIOTEST, INSTONE...LG Labs.... only the "INSTONE" products (Pre-workout Intensity and post work out, maybe the Forza-T) had any real effect on us..... the rest (well, except No-Explode..which made my skin crawl too harshly) was crap...
I'm really hopeful for the Protein Factory products....going to try those FIRST...then maybe experiment with Primodial's stuff later down the road after PC is complete.
Thanks for the great info dude.! K to you as usual!!!
OK...cool. I've got big blast too...., but not VIGOR...I'll get it. Hey, I've (we've) tried EVERYTHING...BSN, Gaspari, Champion, GNC, BIOTEST, INSTONE...LG Labs.... only the "INSTONE" products (Pre-workout Intensity and post work out, maybe the Forza-T) had any real effect on us..... the rest (well, except No-Explode..which made my skin crawl too harshly) was crap...
I'm really hopeful for the Protein Factory products....going to try those FIRST...then maybe experiment with Primodial's stuff later down the road after PC is complete.
Thanks for the great info dude.! K to you as usual!!!
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