Nelson Montana- Glutamine

[Golfer18--old]

I have been reading studies for hours about glutamine and its effects. All have been positive and have been said to aid in building a better body.


Amino acids with anabolic properties.

De Bandt JP, Cynober LA.

Laboratoire de Biochimie A, Hopital Necker-Enfants Malades, Faculte de Pharmacie, Universite Paris V, France.

Experimental studies have clearly demonstrated both the indispensability in stress situations of amino acids, previously considered to be non-essential, and the importance of the specific properties of these same amino acids. Glutamine, arginine and their precursors/metabolites, ornithine and alpha-ketoglutarate, exert anabolic or anticatabolic effects through their involvement in protein metabolism, in the immune response and in cell proliferation. Clinical studies suggest that the supplementation of nutritional therapy with these amino acids can be of significant benefit for injured patients.

 

[Nelson Montana]

That's a pretty vauge study. No mention of its application (IV?) and it refers to "injury patients," whatever that means.

There was a recent study by the University of Miami on oral glutamine among athletes. The conclusion: No effect.

 

[Golfer18--old]

That's a pretty vauge study. No mention of its application (IV?) and it refers to "injury patients," whatever that means.

There was a recent study by the University of Miami on oral glutamine among athletes. The conclusion: No effect.

Yeah it was vague but all I have read is positive things. You got the study bro?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Not off hand. But it was conducted in part by someone you may have heard of but I promised to keep his name out of it. He told me about the results. Believe it or not it was funded by MuscleTech. I guess they won't be publishing the results.

 

[Golfer18--old]

Good enough bro. I will try and dig more info up and see if I can find a negative study.

 

[prophet]

i think l-glut is good stuff...but all the studies coming out now are saying its doesn't do anything. i think a lot of it is the placebo effect.

 

[beefybull]

Read my thread on glutamine and Hucks and you'll have all the info you need

 

[liftsiron]

Not off hand. But it was conducted in part by someone you may have heard of but I promised to keep his name out of it. He told me about the results. Believe it or not it was funded by MuscleTech. I guess they won't be publishing the results.


__________________

Talk about vague.

 

[Silent Method]

Glutamine supplementation is widely accepted as having immune function restorative effects, especially in endurance athletes. For this reason alone, it MAY be beneficial for the avid bodybuilder.

As for it's use to support/promote protein synthesis, or even as an anti-catabolic, glutamine looks good on paper but seems to be a poor performer as far as athletic nutritional supplementation is concerned. One confounding issue with glutamine supplementation for athletes seeking to increase muscle mass may be that oral glutamine introduces a good deal of ammonia into the body, serving as a sort of counterbalance to the positive effects glutamine may have otherwise provided.

An athlete looking to attain suspected the positive effects of increased glutamine levels without the confounding aspects of oral glutamine supplementation may turn to OKG, the carbon skeleton of glutamine lacking the ammonia component. OKG acts as an ammonia scavenger in the body and serves to provide an increase in glutamine concentration.



Ahh, where are the studies you say? I can post some regarding glutamine as having immune function restorative effects if you wish. As for studies supporting the other ideas I have expressed, I don't have access to them off hand. Much of what I have written here is paraphrased from the writings of Dr. Colgan of the "Colgan Institute."

 

[liftsiron]

Glutamine supplementation is widely accepted as having immune function restorative effects, especially in endurance athletes. For this reason alone, it MAY be beneficial for the avid bodybuilder.

As for it's use to support/promote protein synthesis, or even as an anti-catabolic, glutamine looks good on paper but seems to be a poor performer as far as athletic nutritional supplementation is concerned. One confounding issue with glutamine supplementation for athletes seeking to increase muscle mass may be that oral glutamine introduces a good deal of ammonia into the body, serving as a sort of counterbalance to the positive effects glutamine may have otherwise provided.

An athlete looking to attain suspected the positive effects of increased glutamine levels without the confounding aspects of oral glutamine supplementation may turn to OKG, the carbon skeleton of glutamine lacking the ammonia component. OKG acts as an ammonia scavenger in the body and serves to provide an increase in glutamine concentration.



Ahh, where are the studies you say? I can post some regarding glutamine as having immune function restorative effects if you wish. As for studies supporting the other ideas I have expressed, I don't have access to them off hand. Much of what I have written here is paraphrased from the writings of Dr. Colgan of the "Colgan Institute."


__________________

After reading your post I did some reasearch into what Dr. Colgan had to say on the subject. He states due to the fact that oral glutimine degrades vary rapidly to ammonia when exposed to moisture even in the stomach, it is far better to use oral OKG because this provides glutimine to the muscles and immune system without increasing ammonia levels.
Good post Silent Method, and thanks

 

[CLOBRO]

There's some recent articles in T-fag (oop's I mean T-mag) that also claim glutamine is useless for muscle building.

 

[JG1]

what about just using it in the morning on an empty stomach before cardio? still worthless?

 

[manny78]

100 mg ED IV is the only way to get something worth your money but for some reason, I haven't reach that "hardcore" status.....lol

 

[Fonz]

L-glutamine is absolute garbage IMO unless you use it for its immunological boosting properties.

Why is it garbage?

Because the glutamine has to get into the blood stream, thats why.

61% of the amino-acid pool in the blood is glutamine.

Only about 5g of amino acids in the blood at one time(approx.)

About 90%(Probably more) of the ingested glutamine is destroyed by the stomach acids.

After that, its probably safe to assume not even 1% gets to the blood(Probably even less....LOL).

As I said, waste of money.

If you take it for its immune effects(As I do), take it UPON WAKING
with 20g of Baking Soda. You can use Potassium Citrate too.(Animal used to sell this).

The Baking Soda will act as a stomach acid buffering agent and
increase absorption.

I use 20g.(In winter for colds and such)

Tastes damn bad..........

Fonz

 

[ROAD DOG]

What about using it after a slin shot?Would it be more utilized that way,I always put some in my carb drink after a slin shot,hard to tell if it helps though.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Fonz, is right with the info but I have to question the reasoning for using it. There are plenty of substances equal to and superior to glutimine for enhancing the immunity system. Why bother with something that's expensive and potentially toxic?

T-Mag came out with a piece dissmissing the effects of glutamine? That's fucking hilareous!!! I wrote an article for them (back in 98', I believe) called "Pills Powder and Potions" where I came out and said glutamine was worthless. They fought me tooth and nail to allow that to remain in the piece. TC made sure not to endorse what I said and refered to it as "the authors opinion that doesn't reflect the opinion of the staff." He then allowed several letters to be printed bashing my statments and questioning my credentials. TC even apologized for what he called "erroneous information" and said he couldn't "catch all the mistakes." Now they come out and say the exact same thing I wrote four years ago and they're thumping themselves on the chest for being so bold and honest. What a bunch of dicks.

They probably agreed to finally print the truth because the information was coming from some kid with a degree in chemistry who's willing to stick his nose up TC's ass.

Thus is the science of the supplement industry.

 

[Fonz]

Fonz, is right with the info but I have to question the reasoning for using it. There are plenty of substances equal to and superior to glutimine for enhancing the immunity system. Why bother with something that's expensive and potentially toxic?

T-Mag came out with a piece dissmissing the effects of glutamine? That's fucking hilareous!!! I wrote an article for them (back in 98', I believe) called "Pills Powder and Potions" where I came out and said glutamine was worthless. They fought me tooth and nail to allow that to remain in the piece. TC made sure not to endorse what I said and refered to it as "the authors opinion that doesn't reflect the opinion of the staff." He then allowed several letters to be printed bashing my statments and questioning my credentials. TC even apologized for what he called "erroneous information" and said he couldn't "catch all the mistakes." Now they come out and say the exact same thing I wrote four years ago and they're thumping themselves on the chest for being so bold and honest. What a bunch of dicks.

They probably agreed to finally print the truth because the information was coming from some kid with a degree in chemistry who's willing to stick his nose up TC's ass.

Thus is the science of the supplement industry.

It might be a placebo effect but I have noticed it does ward of colds somewhat.

Besides, its pretty cheap nowadays.

Back in the day it was like $100+/ 500g or something ridicuolus
like that.

And people still bought it....LOL

I'm actually compiling a list of the Top 100 anculliary drugs and supps for performance enhancement right now. Goint to be ruthless........LOL

Glutamine? I give it one star out of five.

Fonz

 

[Andy13]

what about just using it in the morning on an empty stomach before cardio? still worthless?

The mere thought makes me ill..

 

[Andy13]

About 90%(Probably more) of the ingested glutamine is destroyed by the stomach acids.

After that, its probably safe to assume not even 1% gets to the blood(Probably even less....LOL).

As I said, waste of money.

If you take it for its immune effects(As I do), take it UPON WAKING
with 20g of Baking Soda. You can use Potassium Citrate too.(Animal used to sell this).

The Baking Soda will act as a stomach acid buffering agent and
increase absorption.



Fonz

Fonz- Where are you getting this from?

I don't doubt that K-citrate or bi-carb will act as a buffering agent in the stomach...

I just never thought glutamine 'gets destroyed by stomach acids.'

Peptides? Yes.. But not aminos.

Have anything?

 

[jboldman]

Fonz: here is a study where plasma glutamine levels were raised 111% percent after oral glutamine supplementation.

jb
===========================================
Nutrition 2002 May;18(5):367-70 Related Articles, Links


Impact of oral L-glutamine on glutathione, glutamine, and glutamate blood levels in volunteers.

Valencia E, Marin A, Hardy G.

Pharmaceutical Nutrition Group, School of Biological and Molecular Sciences, Oxford Brookes University, Oxford, United [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: We investigated the effect of glutamine supplementation on plasma glutamine (Gln), glutamate (Glu), and whole-blood glutathione (GSH) concentrations in human volunteers. METHODS: Subjects first adapted to a standard diet with known intakes of protein, total GSH, cysteine, methionine, and total Glu (Glu values include Glu and Gln) for 3 d. Plasma Gln, Glu, and whole-blood GSH levels were then measured at 4-h intervals over 24 h. Supplemental oral Gln (0.3 g x kg(-1) x d(-1)) was ingested for 10 d and then 24-h plasma levels of Gln, Glu, and whole-blood GSH were measured. RESULTS: The plasma concentrations of Glu (116%; P = 0.006) and Gln (20%; P = 0.046) were significantly higher, whereas concentrations of GSH were significantly lower (37%; P = 0.00091) after oral Gln supplementation. CONCLUSION: Oral Gln increases Glu and Gln levels in plasma of healthy subjects but does not increase GSH red cell (whole-blood) levels. Thus, GSH biosynthesis and preservation of GHS stores in red blood cells may involve rate-limiting substrates other than Gln.

L-glutamine is absolute garbage IMO unless you use it for its immunological boosting properties.

Why is it garbage?

Because the glutamine has to get into the blood stream, thats why.

61% of the amino-acid pool in the blood is glutamine.

Only about 5g of amino acids in the blood at one time(approx.)

About 90%(Probably more) of the ingested glutamine is destroyed by the stomach acids.

After that, its probably safe to assume not even 1% gets to the blood(Probably even less....LOL).

As I said, waste of money.

If you take it for its immune effects(As I do), take it UPON WAKING
with 20g of Baking Soda. You can use Potassium Citrate too.(Animal used to sell this).

The Baking Soda will act as a stomach acid buffering agent and
increase absorption.

I use 20g.(In winter for colds and such)

Tastes damn bad..........

Fonz

 

[Mike P.T.]

Fuck I'm going to continue taking my glutamine despite what others may think. It's so cheap anyway so it's not like you are wasting your money if it isn't effective. Even for it's immune boosting properties that's good enough for me but that last study posted convinced me enough. Back to glutamine for me.

 

[jboldman]

Nelson is correct here, when using young adults doing resistance training there seems to be no benefit to glutamine supplementation.

jb
==============================================
Eur J Appl Physiol 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9 Related Articles, Links


Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

That's a pretty vauge study. No mention of its application (IV?) and it refers to "injury patients," whatever that means.

There was a recent study by the University of Miami on oral glutamine among athletes. The conclusion: No effect.

 

[Shark01]

I agree with the post above. I've read the Candow study, and it confirms strength and lean mass gains. And several other studies (Castell; Bowtell; Welbourne) indicate that Glutamine can decrease catabolism under heavy training, and increase plasma growth hormone. Seems like a slam dunk to me.

 

[Golfer18--old]

I feel a lot better when I am supplementing with it. Even if it doesn't help it still is good to take for the immune system. I find sometimes I get sick easier when on certain drugs.

 

[Nelson Montana]

People believe a supplement works because they WANT to believe it works -- which is fine, especially in the case where using a supplement may have health benefits. But doesn't it piss you off that the supp companies have been telling you it builds muscle when it does no such thing?

I wonder if a study exists comparing glutamine to vitamin C in terms of immunity enhancement. As a matter of fact, the argument can be made that ANY nutrient aids the immunity system.

 

[nvr2shredded]

 

[beefybull]

What is Glutamine?
Glutamine is considered a "conditionally essential amino acid". It makes up roughly 61% of the amino acid pool in skeletal muscle.

What does Glutamine do?
- It is an acid/base balancer
- It is a nitrogen carrier
- It is a precursor to macromolecules (proteins & nucleic acids)
- Glutamine (not carbs or fat) is the preferred source of fuel for rapidly dividing cells, such as enterocytes (intestinal cells) and lymphocytes (immune system cells).
- It is a cell volumizer
- It aids in recovery
- It performs other functions as well

How much should I take & when?
Although glutamine is a popular supplement, this question pops up quite often. The amount of glutamine you should take depends on your bodyweight. Dosages at .57g/kg bodyweight have been shown to be safe in short term use. The body needs a minimum of .2g/kg to have a positive effect on nitrogen balance. Here is a chart of daily dosages by body weight (at .2g/kg):
140lbs - 12.7g
150lbs - 13.6g
160lbs - 14.5g
170lbs - 15.4g
180lbs - 16.3g
190lbs - 17.2g
200lbs - 18.1g
210lbs - 19.1g
220lbs - 20g
230lbs - 20.9g
240lbs - 21.9g
250lbs - 22.7g
260lbs - 23.6g
270lbs - 24.5g

Although you could probably take your full daily dosage at once, it may not be the most comfortable thing to do so. Glutamine should not be taken with food, as it will drastically decrease the amount of glutamine that is absorbed. It is best taken post-workout with carbs & protein, or before bed, since Glutamine is believed to cause an increase in growth hormone (and this is an ideal time for this). As Huckleberry Finnaplex suggested, you could also take it in the morning on an empty stomach.

Glutamine is easily one of the top 5 OTC supplements that a bodybuilder should use. In fact, it could be #1 or maybe a close #2 (behind Creatine). It is currently more expensive than creatine, but the price has drastically dropped over the past 18 months. Hope this helps!

BeefyBull

 

[jboldman]

if you are concerned about your immune system, just supplement with a carbohydrate drink during or prior to exercise, cheaper than glutamine and effective!

jb
============================================
Clin Nutr 2002 Oct;21(5):423-9 Related Articles, Links


Carbohydrate supplementation during intense exercise and the immune response of cyclists.

Bacurau RF, Bassit RA, Sawada L, Navarro F, Martins E Jr, Costa Rosa LF.

Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Institute of Biomedical Sciences, University of Sao Paulo, Brazil.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of carbohydrate supplementation upon some aspects of the immune function in athletes during intense indoor cycling. METHODS: Twelve male athletes cycled for 20 min at a velocity corresponding to 90% of that obtained at the anaerobic threshold and rested for 20 min. This protocol was repeated six times. The athletes received, during the trial, water ad libitum, or a solution of carbohydrate (95% glucose polymers and 5% fructose) at 10% (w/v), 1 g kg h every 20 min, starting at the 10th minute of the first exercise period, plus extra water ad libitum. RESULTS: Exercise induced a reduction in peripheral blood mononuclear cell proliferation (37%) as well as in the production of cytokines by cultured cells (interleukin-1 (IL-1), interleukin-2 (IL-2), tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma), by 37%, 35%, 26% and 16%, respectively). All of these changes were prevented by the ingestion of a carbohydrate drink by the athletes, except that in IFN-gamma production, which was equally decreased (17%) after the second trial. The concentration of plasma glutamine, an important fuel for immune cells, was decreased in the placebo group but maintained in the group that received carbohydrate. CONCLUSION: Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration.

 

[jboldman]

Not only can you maintain glutamine levels by carbohydrate supplementaion, it turns out not to be necessary in any case since plasma glutamine levels lowered by exercise seem not to be linked with reduced immune function.

jb
=============================================
J Appl Physiol 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22 Related Articles, Links


Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link.

Hiscock N, Pedersen BK.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, University of Copenhagen, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark.

The amino acid glutamine is known to be important for the function of some immune cells in vitro. It has been proposed that the decrease in plasma glutamine concentration in relation to catabolic conditions, including prolonged, exhaustive exercise, results in a lack of glutamine for these cells and may be responsible for the transient immunodepression commonly observed after acute, exhaustive exercise. It has been unclear, however, whether the magnitude of the observed decrease in plasma glutamine concentration would be great enough to compromise the function of immune cells. In fact, intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA. It is concluded that, although the glutamine hypothesis may explain immunodepression related to other stressful conditions such as trauma and burn, plasma glutamine concentration is not likely to play a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immunodepression.

 

[Nelson Montana]

BeeyBull's post is a perfect example as to why people have been hoodwinked into buying glutamine.

The fact that muscle is comprised largely of glutamine has nothing to do with oral glutamine growing more muscle. Glutamine is a non-essential amino acid. It was remamed an "essential" non-essential amino acid (pretty idiotic) by supplement companies.

The body converts glutamine from branch chain aminio acids. If you eat foods high in BCAA'a such as eggs, you'll have more glutimine in your system than if you take a glutamine supplement which is destroyed to a large part by stomach acids.

Face the facts. A lot of guys read these "ad-icals" in the magazines and in turn feel "informed." But wrong information is worse than no information.

I've gotten a lot of shit for this over the years. You'd think I get rich from telling people not to waste their money.

 

[Andy13]

What is Glutamine?
Glutamine is considered a "conditionally essential amino acid". It makes up roughly 61% of the amino acid pool in skeletal muscle.

What does Glutamine do?
- It is an acid/base balancer
- It is a nitrogen carrier
- It is a precursor to macromolecules (proteins & nucleic acids)
- Glutamine (not carbs or fat) is the preferred source of fuel for rapidly dividing cells, such as enterocytes (intestinal cells) and lymphocytes (immune system cells).
- It is a cell volumizer
- It aids in recovery
- It performs other functions as well

How much should I take & when?
Although glutamine is a popular supplement, this question pops up quite often. The amount of glutamine you should take depends on your bodyweight. Dosages at .57g/kg bodyweight have been shown to be safe in short term use. The body needs a minimum of .2g/kg to have a positive effect on nitrogen balance. Here is a chart of daily dosages by body weight (at .2g/kg):
140lbs - 12.7g
150lbs - 13.6g
160lbs - 14.5g
170lbs - 15.4g
180lbs - 16.3g
190lbs - 17.2g
200lbs - 18.1g
210lbs - 19.1g
220lbs - 20g
230lbs - 20.9g
240lbs - 21.9g
250lbs - 22.7g
260lbs - 23.6g
270lbs - 24.5g

Although you could probably take your full daily dosage at once, it may not be the most comfortable thing to do so. Glutamine should not be taken with food, as it will drastically decrease the amount of glutamine that is absorbed. It is best taken post-workout with carbs & protein, or before bed, since Glutamine is believed to cause an increase in growth hormone (and this is an ideal time for this). As Huckleberry Finnaplex suggested, you could also take it in the morning on an empty stomach.

Glutamine is easily one of the top 5 OTC supplements that a bodybuilder should use. In fact, it could be #1 or maybe a close #2 (behind Creatine). It is currently more expensive than creatine, but the price has drastically dropped over the past 18 months. Hope this helps!

BeefyBull

Dude...

Will you add a reference to your cut-n-paste?

 

[Shark01]

BeeyBull's post is a perfect example as to why people have been hoodwinked into buying glutamine.

Face the facts. A lot of guys read these "ad-icals" in the magazines and in turn feel "informed." But wrong information is worse than no information.

I've gotten a lot of shit for this over the years

Face the facts?? I've read several positive double blind tests of Glutamine.............Dude, I know you are here to sell books and everything so you want to be controversial, but come on

 

[Nelson Montana]

Yeah, I woke up one day and thought; 'What can I say to be controversial?' And figured I'd pick on glutamine.


Let's see the double blind studies that show that oral ingestion of glutamine increased muscle tissue in trained athletes. I don't need several. JUST ONE.

It's always in people who never trained before, or in the elderly or in trauma patients or it's with IV. NEVER is it oral gluatimine in trained athletes. NEVER.

But the supplement companies know how to twist the facts and make them sound very scientific, which the more knowledable bodybuilder eats up. He then, in turn, unwittingly espouses these erroneous beliefs and is rarely questioned because A: other advanced BB's read the same stuff.and B: Less knowledgable BB's won't argue what they don't know about.

But it still does nothing.

 

[MrRTTB]

ok so glutamin sucks, what amionoacid can you recommend then Montana. I've been hearing very good things about pure BACC, maybe this would be better than the glutamine. Pre and postworkout..??? Dose?? What do you prefer?

 

[jboldman]

Alfons, why do you have this need for supplementing with a single amino acid? protein and carbohydrates in a certain proportion have been shown to maximize gluscose uptake after exercise. I can post the study if you like. It is a simple and inexpensive solution to post workout supplementation.

jb

 

[MrRTTB]

Just affraid I don't get enough of the amino acids with the fact I do not drink milk and eat oatmeal anymore due to big problems I got from them. I tried glutamine once and thought It worked, might been placebo. I red this article on T-mag with pre and post aminoacids.

 

[hhajdo]

jboldman - interesting studies, thanks for posting them.
Do you have any studies performed on experienced lifters ?

 

[jboldman]

Thanks hhadjo: as you know, it is difficult to find studies that exactly match up to the questions that we want answered. Here are a couple more that address the use of supplemental glutamine on performance in trained athletes. In all cases the glutamine was found to have no useful effect.

jb


============================================
J Strength Cond Res 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60 Related Articles, Links


The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance.

Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.

Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean +/- SE: age, 21.5 +/- 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 +/- 2.8 kg(-1)) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g x kg(-1)) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.
============================================
Int J Sports Med 2000 Jan;21(1):25-30 Related Articles, Links


The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.

van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.

Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. [email protected]

The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.
===========================================
J Sports Med Phys Fitness 1998 Sep;38(3):240-4 Related Articles, Links


Acute L-glutamine ingestion does not improve maximal effort exercise.

Haub MD, Potteiger JA, Nau KL, Webster MJ, Zebas CJ.

Exercise Physiology Laboratory, University of Kansas, Lawrence 66045, USA.

BACKGROUND: L-glutamine (GLN) may have an ergogenic effect during exercise considering its base generating potential. We attempted to determine whether GLN ingestion influences acid-base balance and improves high intensity exercise performance. METHOD: Ten trained males performed five exercise bouts on a cycle ergometer at 100% of VO2 peak. The first four bouts were 60 sec in duration, while the fifth bout was continued to fatigue. Each bout was separated by 60 sec of recovery. The exercise bouts were initiated 90 min after ingesting 0.03 g.kg body mass-1 of either GLN or placebo (PLC). Venous blood samples were collected pre-ingestion (PRE-IN), pre-exercise (PRE-EX), and following bouts four (B4) and five (B5) and analyzed for pH, bicarbonate concentration (HCO3), and lactate concentration (La-). Time to fatigue for B5 was used as a performance measure. RESULTS: pH, [HCO3], and [La-] were not significantly different (p > 0.05) between conditions for PRE-IN, PRE-EX, B4, and B5. Time to fatigue was not significantly different between conditions and averaged 263.4 +/- 24.5 sec and 263.2 +/- 19.4 sec for the GLN and PLC trials, respectively. CONCLUSIONS: These data indicate that acute ingestion of L-glutamine does not enhance either buffering potential or high intensity exercise performance in trained males.
===========================================

 

[beefybull]

Damn Andy, dont make me copy & paste your ass, boy

 

[MiniColemans]

when I run seriously, glutamine really helps me recover and lose less muscle. I know because its the only thing missing from my workouts now! lol. I did notice that I was less sick when I took 10g a day.

 

[Peyomp]

That's a pretty vauge study. No mention of its application (IV?) and it refers to "injury patients," whatever that means.

There was a recent study by the University of Miami on oral glutamine among athletes. The conclusion: No effect.

Did you conclude that from the abstract, or from the article itself? I guess you wouldn't criticize an article on the basis of a vague abstract, would you?

 

[Zoomster]

Glutamine is a good suuplement for all.

I read this shit, and I still come back to the same conclusion..I take it, I feel good, especially my work outs.

Take all of the scientific study's that you want.

I fucking works in the gym.

 

[fhg43]

Glutamine is a good suuplement for all.

I read this shit, and I still come back to the same conclusion..I take it, I feel good, especially my work outs.

Take all of the scientific study's that you want.

I fucking works in the gym.

This is the placebo effect. You think its good so you feel good.

Hard to argue w/science bro; hard to argue w/science.

FHG

 

[MikeyG]

I would have to agree with most of the people here that glutamine powder is useless--

Instead of paying $$$ for supplement crap--- I'd rather get and eat real food. But I'd like to know where is the best food sources we can obtain glutamine from? Cottage Cheese? Beef?

 

[jubei]

Taking 5 grams a day of glutamine is a waste of time, you won't notice anything. If you can get it really cheap it may be worth you while to take say 40-50 (extra)grams per day may yield "some" results. Glutimine is just an amino acid. If you take in 500 grams of protien you get about 50 grams per day anyways. Is it important, well yes, but no more than the other amino acids in protien. Haven't read anything lately, I would like to read a report if anyone can dig one out.

 

[MasterChief]

Damn Andy, dont make me copy & paste your ass, boy

LOL!!

 

[Tigrones]

I mix 10g of Glutamine with 1g of MSM (Methyl Sulfonyl Methane) on empty stomach upon rising.
I tried this formula on and off with otherwise identical training and nutrition program and experienced greater and faster recovery between workouts and slight strenght increase when on it. So I know it is not placebo as I am in tune with my body.

 

[drveejay11]

I mix 10g of Glutamine with 1g of MSM (Methyl Sulfonyl Methane) on empty stomach upon rising.
I tried this formula on and off with otherwise identical training and nutrition program and experienced greater and faster recovery between workouts and slight strenght increase when on it. So I know it is not placebo as I am in tune with my body.

I have a few problems with this post.

1) How can you attribute and isolate your positive effects to Glutamine if you were taking 1 G of MSM also?

2) Define "greater and faster recovery"........are you saying that you just didn't "hurt" as much the next day as typically? This is tantamount to MSM's primary benefit. To act as an anti-inflammatory. MSM, or Methylsulfonylmethane, provides the body with extra organic sulfur. Many of the components of joints, including collagen and glucosamine, are sulfur-dependent. MSM appears most helpful for people with arthritis. Typically, the association of taking MSM becomes LESS PAIN. It's effects are comparable to Advil.

And, maybe the "strength increase" comes from "happier joints"

No personal attack here bro.........just playing Devil's Advocate with response to your comments about Glutamine.

 

[Nelson Montana]

MSM is good stuff.

I stumbled upon some literature years ago and thought 'this would make a great bodybuilding supplement'. I presented the idea to Biotest back in '98, when I was working for them, and they poo-pooed it -- said it wasn't "spectacular" enough, nobody's heard of it, and couldn't market it as an anabolic. So instead, they put out a bunch of bogus crap that claims to raise testosterone 1000000 percent.

And Tigrones; Sorry bro, but the glutamine did nothing -- because it can't. I'd say your results were definetly from the MSM.

 

[Tigrones]

I have a few problems with this post.

1) How can you attribute and isolate your positive effects to Glutamine if you were taking 1 G of MSM also?

2) Define "greater and faster recovery"........are you saying that you just didn't "hurt" as much the next day as typically? This is tantamount to MSM's primary benefit. To act as an anti-inflammatory. MSM, or Methylsulfonylmethane, provides the body with extra organic sulfur. Many of the components of joints, including collagen and glucosamine, are sulfur-dependent. MSM appears most helpful for people with arthritis. Typically, the association of taking MSM becomes LESS PAIN. It's effects are comparable to Advil.

And, maybe the "strength increase" comes from "happier joints"

No personal attack here bro.........just playing Devil's Advocate with response to your comments about Glutamine.

To answer your questions:

1. Good question. That is why I take it with glutamine. On its own, MSM did not yield same recovery results.

2. by greater and faster recovery I mean that I reduced the amount of time between subsuquent workouts. it's not so much about pain, but time elapsed between my muscles were ready to get pounded again. For example, I tried playing around with one day on/one day off, two days on/one day off cycles. I was able to do the latter while on glutamine/msm. As far as strength increase, I did say it was slight, so yes, could be happier joints.

At my age (41), it takes naturally longer to recover, so it seems to be working for me. Again, when taking only MSM, it just didn't seem to help me as much. Of course, it doesn't mean it would produce same results for everyone.

I appreciate your debate, prudent questions are always welcomed, that is our way to discovery.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Tigrones: I have no doubt you're being ernest. But realze, there are so many factors, such as bio-rhythms that effect mood, recovery, even strength. You could have been in a "better place" when using the glutmine and you naturally attributed your progress to it. But oral glutamne is inert, so it had to be either the MSM or something else.

You also bring up a good point, and that's one of staying in touch with your body. it's a tricky process but one that should be exercised at all times.

 

[Tigrones]

Tigrones: I have no doubt you're being ernest. But realze, there are so many factors, such as bio-rhythms that effect mood, recovery, even strength. You could have been in a "better place" when using the glutmine and you naturally attributed your progress to it. But oral glutamne is inert, so it had to be either the MSM or something else.

You also bring up a good point, and that's one of staying in touch with your body. it's a tricky process but one that should be exercised at all times.

Nelson, I always take your remarks seriously (I bought your book too and liked it) as I don't want to be ignorant, but educated (education is progressive discovery of our own ignorance). Having said that, you may be correct about the role that glutamine played in my personal case. But I must not ignore my own positive experience, even though it has been mostly trial and error throughout these years. I do not jump to most of the claims of supplement manufacturers simply because majority of them have their profits in mind without giving a fuck about our hard earned dollars. They will serve all kind of bullshit studies to support their "scientific" facts. yeah right. And glutamine is no doubt one of the supplements that is filling their coffers.
But I am still having a hard time accepting belief that is totally useless product. I'll probably have to experiment more without it and see if I am kidding myself or not.
Your input is always appreciated.

 

[Zoomster]

This is the placebo effect. You think its good so you feel good.

Hard to argue w/science bro; hard to argue w/science.

FHG

I completely disagree, I have been training for over twenty years.
I know the difference.

 

[dental.plan]

FONZ and jboldman

IN regards to fonz's comment:

About 90%(Probably more) of the ingested glutamine is destroyed by the stomach acids.

After that, its probably safe to assume not even 1% gets to the blood(Probably even less....LOL).

As I said, waste of money.


Is this true of taking just a normal protein powder?? with all diff Amino acids in it.
should i even eat protein powders?



and YES, jboldman i would like this study you mention below.

Alfons, why do you have this need for supplementing with a single amino acid? protein and carbohydrates in a certain proportion have been shown to maximize gluscose uptake after exercise. I can post the study if you like. It is a simple and inexpensive solution to post workout supplementation.

jb

 

[Peyomp]

http://www.ces.clemson.edu/~petersj/BioEng/BioPhysics/BioPhysics025.gif

I think you're full of shit about L-Glutamine breaking down when exposed to the stomach's HCl, or any gastric enzyme. I think you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I think you're regurgitating bullshit, and misinforming elite fitness members.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words and sincerely apologize. How about explaining the reaction to me, using that there picture and some words?

 

[Debaser]

Sublingual glutamine in 3 g doses is supposedly far more effective than ingesting it normally.

 

[Peyomp]

Sublingual glutamine in 3 g doses is supposedly far more effective than ingesting it normally.

Yeah, 3g magically absorbs through the mouth, so its more effective... cause its magic.

 

[Zoomster]

All I can say is that it seems to work for me. 1 to 2 % when you are used to being natural is a dramatic swing.