need training advice

[lavi]

longtime memeber but havent posted in a while here.

my background:
5'6"
18yo
145lbs
training 1-1.5yrs
need to add 20-30lbs of muscle at least, ultime goal is powerlifting

195 bench
215 squat
365 deadlift

I plan to do a fullbody split 3x a week

My questions:

(1)

i was thing of either doing 1 day 3-5reps, 1 day 10-12 reps and alternating (with the same exercises) - so itd be:
monday: flat bench 3x3-5
wed: flat bench 3x10-12
fri: flat bench 3x10-12
etc.

or I could do something like 1 week 10-12reps, 1 weeks 6-8, 1 week 3-5 and repeat

would one be more effective than the other?


(2)

im also not sure of how much volume to do. i will be going to failure much of the time unlike hst. I was thinking ~20 sets a day?

I was looking at something like:
3 sets flat bench
3 sets mil press
3 sets row
2 bb curls
2 skullcrushers
3 sets safety bar box squat
3 sets deadlift
2 sets cable crunches
=21 sets


which leads to (3)

I'm having trouble addressing all my weaknesses:

my chest has always been a weakness and only doing 3 sets of flatbench for it doesnt really help it catch up

have greatly neglected lateral delts

havent directly trained bis in months

my tris are important to me since my ultimate goal is powerlifting

the routine I showed leaves my chest lacking. if I cut anything out, one of these will be lacking. any advice?



Any other general advice on a routine is mroe than welcome

no im not obsessive about this... kind of

Thanks!!!

[btw great to see WalkingBeast is still out and about here - im gunna go check otu your log now- i know, i know, my routine isnt high enough volume for you ]

 

[Royster]

squat, pull, press, dont make things complicated.

you are weak, it takes nothing but a simple program to get strong.

 

[lavi]

thanks royster, fair enough.

are you reccommending I skip isolation stuff such as curls and skullcrushers altogether and focus on the big stuff?

 

[Royster]

yes.

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/manrodt4.htm

follow the Bill Starr power program for 3 months. Eat big, sleep big and the "heavy" day take it like you are going to battle. Rest one week, repeat again. Once you have built your lifts to a reasonable level, switch to westside or modify this program.

read the other articles in the archives, you obviously know nothing about strength training.

Leave the isolation stuff for the bodybuilders and the muppets.

remember, get strong, and the rest will follow.

 

[Madcow2]

royster has good advice. Most of the workouts posted on these boards wouldn't produce any strength or size increase in an experienced natural lifter. Ignore that shit - take enough drugs and almost anything will make you grow. Train right and you will grow naturally and if you do decide to juice, you will get twice the results at half the dosage.

You might also give this thread a read. This is Johnsmith182's tribute thread at the Meso training board. Lots of good info and you will find that Starr's 5x5 is still very much in use in many of the top training facilities in the country: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=12

Here is something I wrote last night to a guy on the anabolic board. I usually don't like to get into training stuff much but this is an example of someone on a huge well thought out array of drugs and a program that I would be insulted to wipe my ass with. This amount of misinformation in BBing circles with regards to training never ceases to amaze me. Enjoy the read and good luck: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4307468&postcount=17

 

[lavi]

thanks again both you guys

I see a few different versions of the program here. the one that appeals to me the most is the one on the first post of the thread madcow linked to:

"---5X5---
Monday: Squats, Benching, Rows
Weds: Squats, Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins
Friday: Squats, Benching, Rows


In any event i described a system in a post a while back that goes something like this:
Monday use the heaviest weight you can for all 5 sets (same weight each set)---- in other words when you get all 5 sets of 5 reps up the weight (most workouts you will get 3 or 4 sets of 5- and maybe your last one will be for 3 or 4 reps)

Wednesday use 10-20% less weight- in other words if you used 200lbs on monday use 160-180lbs on wednesday- actual amount depending on your recovery

Friday work up to a max set of 5- "

for me roysters doesnt work too well just because I dont know oly lifts and dips are a real pain in the shoulder

- I am confused about wednesday because except for squats it's all different exercises so I'm supposed to use 10-20% less weight than what?

my questions about modifications of this version:
would it be alright to use machines for the chins and especially the rows?

is it really enough work for my chest? i ask only because my chest is a big weakness

where could i add in a little of tri/ab assistance that seems to be absent in this program vs royster's?


if this can help me build up some size/strength im all for it. and it should definately help bring my squat up to par. thanks

also i am just curious about the light wednesday workout? is it to help recovery? form?


this should get 90% of my questions out of the way

 

[Madcow2]

No, it's not okay to use machines. Machines are far less effective. You can bust your ass on a machine and I can work like a total slacker with the free weight equivalent and I will dramatically out-gain you.

Not knowing the olympic lifts is okay - both programs are fairly equivalent. I would someday make an effort to learn the lifts even if it is only to the extent of the clean and snatch grip high pulls - or dynamic shrugs from the hang position. Dynamic pulling is not something you want to leave blank in your arsenal.

Make sure you start reasonably easy on the 5x5. It gets really hard really fast. I have a more in depth explanation here: http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=3989&view=findpost&p=69541

As far as what you want to do over time. It might be a bit advanced for you though but it will give you an idea on how the heavy and light integrate. Basically, you squat light on Wednesday and end up dropping it when moving into the intensity phase. As a beginner you might not be able to squat 3x per week.

Benching twice a week and working military is plenty for chest. If you want to train arms directly (and it really makes no difference as long term arm mass is driven by the compound exercises anyway rather than any isolation work) pick a single bicept and a single tricept exercise and work on getting better at them over the course. Don't perform either more than twice per week though. If you want to do abs - do some situps. They tend to take care of themselves if you are squating and pulling.

The max set of 5 on the heavier days is a perscription for a pyramid. I work up to a target weight. As the workload gets heavier I will drop a set or reps here and there but I always make sure I get to my target weight for each week.

Let's cover a few other things:

1) Squats - the top of your thighs should reach parallel (which means the entire body of your legs will be below parallel). In all honesty, you'll build a better foundation if you just go full range (as low as you can go - hams on calves) but for powerlifting you need to be at least this low.

2) Deads - work sets should all be done as a series of separate reps. The bar is totally deweighted onto the floor before commencing the next rep (your body does not hold the weight). The bar comes to a complete rest on the ground (hence the weight is in fact "dead" on the ground i.e. deadlift). It's okay to fire off faster reps for easy warm ups and such but don't do this for working sets. I've seen a guy struggle to get the weight off the ground and then bang out ten - lifting the weight from the floor is a totally different exercise than using the bounce and more effective.

Hope that helps.

 

[Royster]

madcow, thats some solid advice, im glad I can even find in here some good all natural sensible advice, rather than the giant sets, burn sets and only tricep/arm days reccomended by some gurus in here.

lavi, the Bill Starr program can be modified. Change the high pulls for barbell rows or any other back exercise. The main aim is to have one main compound exercise for each bodypart. As madcow says, you are working your chest enough with the exercises prescribed. Squat all the way down (hams touch calves) so you build a strong foundation and get some flexibility in your ankles and hips.

Dont use a weight a set weight for all sets, you are too weak to do this, and you'll burnout. Do as the begginer workout intends, last set is your balls out set.

You are making things complicated. Monday is your heavy day, wednesday is your light day, and friday is a day where you work hard on squats, but take it relatively easy on the rest of lifts.

re-read the articles given, youll understand them. Forget about machines, except if you happen to have a glute-ham raise or a hyper, then use them.

 

[Madcow2]

Dont use a weight a set weight for all sets, you are too weak to do this, and you'll burnout. Do as the begginer workout intends, last set is your balls out set.

This is very valid. At your stage you should arrange your workouts like this rather than warming up to a working set weight. The modified versions I referenced are more geared to an athlete who is already well trained and familiar with his capacities in each of the core lifts.

Also, don't worry about strength/size - they will come with this workout. I used a nearly identical program some time ago and ended up having to drastically curtail my diet to prevent gaining too much weight (I draw the line at 240 - at my age, I don't want to weigh any more than that). Just make sure you eat plenty, get good protein throughout the day, and a good sleep at night.

It's very easy to make progress with this program and it is almost ideal for building a rock solid foundation.

 

[c gheller]

great advice madcow. I was wondering Bro with the 5x5 routine you posted you said it can be modified. Can i do leg press instead of sqauts and is ther an alternative to deadlifts i can do as i have a back injury and i cant do those. Also with the barbell rows you say arch your middle back slightly.....do you mean lean a bit forward so that your torso is roughly halfway between verticle and horizontal?