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Need help with new routine

WonderBread78

New member
I know what I have to do for the Diet side, question, I need a new routine that I can do in three days. I am about 5'7 170 pounds. I havent gained weight in about 4 years, about the same wieght, only thing being that I have shifted my weight around alot between my stomach and my upper body giving the illusion tha that I have lost and gained but I truely haven't. I really want to pack on some good muscle and bulk for the next couple of months but I dont want to much bloating and water retention. I am currently drinking two types of protein shakes from Protein Factory, one post training and the others before I train. I am going to start using creatine again soon and up my glutamine.

I need a new routine to change it up a bit. I can only make it to the gym mostly 3 days a week.

This is my current workout:
Mon: Chest and Tris
Tues: Back and Bi's
Wed: Shoulders and legs

I do abs all three days.

Can someone like maybe MR. X recommedn a new 3 day workout for good hard lean mucle mass. It would be greatly appreciated.
 
I've heard nothing but good things from people around here about cornholios old school routine.. do a search on it... I'm pretty sure its a 3 day a week program
 
I would try the 5x5 system( do a search) If you can only get to the gym 3 days I would try to put rest days inbetween those days unless it has to be mon,tue,wed.
 
Your thinking is on the right track, but I think you need to split things up and give yourself more recuperation time. Here might be a possibility. This is a routine that I follow:

Day 1 - OFF
Day 2 - Delts and Arms
Day 3 - Legs and abs
Day 4 - OFF
Day 5 - Chest, Abs
Day 6 - Back and Calves
Day 7 - OFF

Key Exercises:

Seated Barbell Presses
Up Right Rows
Close Grip Bench Presses
Parallel Dips
Barbell Curls
Shrugs
Squats
Leg Presses
Incline Barbell Presses
Deadlifts
Barbell Rows
Chins
 
Lord_Suston said:
what is your routine and rep scheme and amount of sets????? After you set that down I can help you better.....

My routine usually is as follows: remember I am always switching things up bit:

Monday:
Chest: Bench- 5 Sets( 15,12,10,6)
Incline DB Press (12,10,8,6)
Hammer Strength Incline (10,8,8,6)
Cable Crossovers (10,8,8,6)
Tri's: Seated Skull Crusher machine( Tricep Extension) (15,12,10,10)
Over- the -head DB Raise (10,10,8,6)
Triceps Pull Down (10,8,8,6)

Tuesday: Back: Lower Back Extensions (20,15,12)
Pullups (4 sets Pyramding in weight (12,10,10,8)
Cable row (I guess that is what you call it) (10,10,8,6)
Hammer Pulldowns (10,10,8,6)

Biceps: Sit down Cable Curl (20,15,12,10)
Hammer Curl (12,10,8,8)
Barbell Curl ( 10,8,6,6)
THursday: Legs: Quad Extension(15,12,10,8)
Ham Ext. (15,12,10,8)
Seated Legg Press (10,8,8,6)
Lounges (10,8,8,6)
Seated Calf Rais( 15,12,12,10)
Standing Calf Raise( 15,12,10,10)
Shoulders: MAchine Military Press (15,12,10,10)
DB Front Lateral Raise(10,10,10,8)
Barbell Raise( Dont know the name- Bring it up to my shoulders) 10,8,8,6)
Anterior Dels Machine( for the infrasupinatuus- Dont know name) (10,10,10,10)

I do ABS all Three Days
 
You're almost doing a push-pull-legs routine, except you need to move the shoulders to the chest/tricep day. Because they'll still be recouperating. And you're doing WAY too much volume. FIFTY-TWO SETS ON FRIDAY? You do more volume than most pros I've seen on 5+ grams with superhuman genetics. Here is an AWESOME p/p/l H.I.T. routine from Silverback from the GotFina board:

Mon--C/S/T

Flat Bench Press--3 sets to failure (at least 10 reps), rest 1 minute between sets, drop weight if you need to. Start with your weak grip (usually close) and move outwards on each successive set to your strongest grip.

Military Press--2 sets to failure (at least 12 reps), rest 1 minute between sets, drop weight if you need to.

Skull Crushers--1 set of 20 reps.

Tues--light cardio for 30 minutes.

Wed. B/B

Cable Rows--2 sets to failure (at least 12 reps), rest one minute between sets.

Front Pulldowns--2 sets to failure (at least 10 reps), rest one minute between sets.

Barbell Curls--1 set of 20 reps to failure.

Thurs. off.

Friday--legs
Squats-- 1 set of 20 reps to failure.
Stiff Legged Deadlifts--1 set of 12 reps to failure.
Leg Raises ss weighted Crunches- 1 superset of 20 reps each way.
Calf Raises--1 set of 25 reps to failure.

Saturday--very light cardio.

Sunday--off.
 
If I had 3 days...This is what I would do...exactly

Monday - chest & bi's
incline db press X 3
flat barbell press X 3
incline barbell press X 3
Olympic barbell curls X 3
Concentration curls X 3
seated calve raises X 9 (in between sets)
Abdominals

Tuesday - OFF

Wednesday - back & tri's
weighted pull ups X 3
bar rows X 3
seated rows X 3
close grip bench X 3
tricep pushdowns X 3
db shrugs X 3
back extensions
standing calve raises X 9 (in between sets)

Thursday - Legs
Squats X 4
Leg extensions X 4 (singles)
Leg curls X 4 (singles)
abdominals
forearm work X 3

Friday - Delts
db military press X 3
side laterals X 3
rear delts X 3
db shrugs X 3

Use a 1,2,3 down......1,2 up cadence.
1-2 minutes between sets.
Bring a gallon of fruit juice & a watch.
Stretch between sets, slowly.
 
Or you can do what I said and actually gain some muscle.

What is your logic behind that split? Do you realize that biceps are used in most back movements and triceps in chest? You're not only using way too much volume, but also you're hammering the shoulders in a lot of these movements, and wtf are close grip benches doing on a back day? and shrugs on 2 days? And forearms which already get worked on wednesday? AND 18 SETS OF CALVES IN 3 days? Seriously, this is your split:

Monday - Chest, tris, bis, shoulders, calves
Wednesday - Back, chest, tris, bis, forearms, shoulders, calves
Thursday - Legs, forearms
Friday - Shoulders, upper back, forearms

Seriously man, did you pick random exercises on random days? And you're training three days in a row...
 
Debaser said:
Or you can do what I said and actually gain some muscle.

What is your logic behind that split? Do you realize that biceps are used in most back movements and triceps in chest? You're not only using way too much volume, but also you're hammering the shoulders in a lot of these movements, and wtf are close grip benches doing on a back day? and shrugs on 2 days? And forearms which already get worked on wednesday? AND 18 SETS OF CALVES IN 3 days? Seriously, this is your split:

Monday - Chest, tris, bis, shoulders, calves
Wednesday - Back, chest, tris, bis, forearms, shoulders, calves
Thursday - Legs, forearms
Friday - Shoulders, upper back, forearms

Seriously man, did you pick random exercises on random days? And you're training three days in a row...

Debaser... it is unlikely that one will put on as substantial size with the training proposal you have suggested.

Higher rep workouts (more than 5 or so), tend to work the class 1 and 2a muscle fibers... these muscle fibers are smaller and take up less of the mass on the body... alot less. Working "at least 20 reps" will most likely yeild gains, but not as substantial as going on the lower reps.

Lower reps work the class 2b and 2c muscle fibers... these are the main ones used for power, the muscles that are worked during heavy lifts and what we want to look big... whereas the high rep will work the "runner or endurance" muscles. Doing a routine with reps from 3-5 (after warmups of course) will definately add size...

This is why many people DON'T get bigger... too many people do the 8-10 rep thing... and never experience the 3-5 Rep workouts.

I made a post a while back about understanding the how the muslce works in order to get bigger... a while back... it's a good read.

C-ditty
 
Debass,
That's the split I used and it worked for me. There was a time whenI was actually so damn busy that I only had time for a 4 days split.

I do Back & Tri's on the same day for extra stimulation on the arms.
I do chest & bi's for the same reason.
I do shrugs a couple times bc they are often neglected.
I do calves for the same reason. One day is light and the next is moderate. The next is heavy.
Close grip benches are the best mass builder for triceps IMO.
You can never do enough forearm work.

How old are you? What are your stats?

"Or you can do what I said and actually gain some muscle".

lol
 
That is completely FALSE. The 20-rep squat is one of the most productive training routines one can embark on.

As long as you are gaining strength and eating properly, size will follow. Higher reps with less weight make it easier for many trainees to have perfect form. The rep scheme is dependent on the trainee and their preferences. The important thing is adding weight to the bar, every week.

If you increased your 20 rep squat from 100 lbs, to 400 lbs, do you honestly think you would not be much bigger (assuming you're eating properly, which to make gains like that you usually are)?
 
Debaser said:
That is completely FALSE. The 20-rep squat is one of the most productive training routines one can embark on.
I've got to agree with you on that one. I did 20-rep squats for about 7 months. Got up to 315x20.
 
zackdarnell said:
I've got to agree with you on that one. I did 20-rep squats for about 7 months. Got up to 315x20.

Strength will go up with higher reps... size will not be as great, however. If you want SIZE... you'll do the lower reps...

I believe debaser said "Or you can do what I said and actually gain some muscle" -- Gain muscle... sure, you'll gain some, but not NEARLY as much as you'll gain on the lower rep workouts.

Strength is an entirely different story... you said SIZE. First, you say that powerlifting style of bench could yeild greater lifts but no size... and now you are saying that the 20-rep squat routine will yeild greater strength... well... guess what, no size again.

It's Science... and science doesn't lie. Class 2b and 2c muscle fibers are the LARGEST fibers... they will only be worked and grow under heavy stress for short periods of time. If you can do 20 reps at 315, then you can do 5 reps at 455 -- which would yeild more SIZE.

Now which is it... are we talking about Strength, Size or endurance???

C-ditty
 
Debaser said:
That is completely FALSE. The 20-rep squat is one of the most productive training routines one can embark on.

As long as you are gaining strength and eating properly, size will follow. Higher reps with less weight make it easier for many trainees to have perfect form. The rep scheme is dependent on the trainee and their preferences. The important thing is adding weight to the bar, every week.

If you increased your 20 rep squat from 100 lbs, to 400 lbs, do you honestly think you would not be much bigger (assuming you're eating properly, which to make gains like that you usually are)?

Completely false?? So now science is lying? I guess I should call the local medical school and alert them to this...

Yes... if you increase your 20 rep squat from 100lbs to 400lbs you will gain size... unfortunately, the average man won't make a 300lb leap anytime soon... so the muscle growth would take place over an extended time.. say at least one year.

Again, you misstate me... your muscles WILL grow on higher rep exercises... but it will be the smaller of the muscle fibers... the class 1 and 2a fibers are the SMALLEST Fibers... and they are worked on higher rep, lighter workouts.

Now... if I can increase my 5-rep max from 100lbs to 400lbs, I will have had more muscle growth than if my 20-rep max did the same. That isn't saying that the person who's 20-rep max's legs wouldn't be the same size... but the person who increased their 5-rep max would have more overall growth.

C-ditty
 
Maybe to analogize my example a bit better with yours... if I could squat 400lbs at 20 reps, I would yeild more size and stregth gains if I did 600lbs at 5 reps.

And for those of us who can maintain proper form and dieting techniques... going the 5-rep technique would be more beneficial...

Not taking anything away from the 20rep routine... I think it has it's place... it would be a great to build up any lagging muscle fibers that weren't being hit on a low-rep workout... but then, you might have to design a higher-rep mesocycle to hit the entire body that way as well...

C-ditty
 
One can gain very well strength and mass using lowish reps of 5 or 6 and one CAN ALSO gain very well in both areas using higher reps especially sets of 15-20 in the squat.

Both high and low rep work have their place and both should be done, although not at the same time. Sets of 6-10 can be good for the upper body and sets of 10- 20 for quads and low body.....at other times sets of 5 or 6 should be focused on.

The upper legs respond very well to high reps, although I can't say the same for the upper body. Incredible stimulation of the thighs, and entire body, can be accomplished with only one set of all out 20 rep squats.

Without a doubt one all out set of 20 in the squat, in which the sets takes a hell of a long time and a hell of a lot of effort with lots of deep breathing ,will produce MORE MUSCLE GAIN than sets of 5 for the average man. Sets of 5 will produce more strength over time but not by a great deal. When you can deep squat 400 pounds 20 times your 5 rep poundages is going to be big.

Tom Platz was a big believer in high rep deep squats and he had unreal legs. I went ot one of his seminars in 1980 and he strongly recommended them, and also low volume for the average man and especially while natural.

A great deal of the bro's on this board don't have a fucking clue how to train without roids and that is one reason they take them, because they cannot gain without them. WHY can they not gain without them ??.....because they train with too much volume, train too frequently and do not train hard enough.

A genetic freak will gain on any type of routine, especially on roids. An average man will gain well on almost any type of training with steroids BUT that same average man will go NOWHERE on volume training without roids!

Why do people bash HIT training...because they don't do it right and because it isn't really FUN to do. But if you want the fastest gains possible very brief high intensity training is the best way to go.

One NEVER needs more than a few sets per body part and often 1 set of squats is all that is needed for quads. The upper limit of logical training would be 3-8 work sets per body part and I don't care if you take 2 grams of test per week.

The tried an proven 5X5 sytem is also good. In this system one does two or three warm ups of 5 and then three work sets with the same weight, and when 3 sets of 5 can be done with this weight then more weight is added in small to tiny jumps. This system is especially good for the upper body. You can do 5X5 for the squat too but 1 set of 20 is unreal as well. Problem is mentally 20 rep squats are just too tough to do for a long time so low rep work is needed.

A good program is to train very hard on the big basic movement focusing on adding small to tiny amounts of weight to the bars weekly. You can do very low volume full body workouts once every 4-5 days or you can do a two way or three way split.
A good two way slpit is train one day and then rest two days. A good three way split is Mon-Wed and Fri or every other day at the most.

You MUST allow time off each week for recuperation reasons especially while off roids. Most guys train too frequently.

NOTE: you have to be careful with HIT as too much intensity will over train you...so be very careful with ultra intensity stuff. many men cannot train past failure at all unless on steroids. Also many men cannot do more than 2-3 hard work sets TOTAL PER BODY PART with the big compound movements while training naturally without over training.

My current routine. I am 40 years old and can still bench 450, Squat 750(high bar deep) and deadlift 800. After a training cycle with HIT I switch to the 5X5 system and use ALMOST ONLY COMPOUND movements. I also rest longer bewteen sets and really try to focus on poundage increases in good form.

For HIT training below I use 6-8 reps for pressing movements, 8-10 for pulling and higher for legs. rest between sets is minimal and NONE if super setting two exercises

I wil often use rest pause reps after going to failure.

ALWAYS TRY TO ADD SMALL TO TINY AMOUNTS TO THE BARS EACH WEEK...even a pound per week(or less) is good after the going gets tough in the bench and even 2-3 pounds per week in the squat is good once the going gets really tough. Get some tiny plates! www.fractionalplates.com

When you can no longer get even tiny increases let the reps fall to 5's for upper body compound movements and 10's for lower and try to keep adding weight. When this isn't possible then STOP training and take at least a full week off. Then come back but start with about 90% of your previous best for reps...then slowly work up over the weeks and surpass the old bests.

Alternatively you can try the 5X5 method for a cycle after the HIT stuff. One benefit of the 5X5 system with the lower eps and longer rests between sets(3-5 minutes) is it does allow for better progression in poundages. 5X5 is still pretty darn HIT by the way.

MONDAY
30 degree inclines in the smith for 2 work sets
pec deck supersetting in pre exhaust fashion with hammer bench for 2 sets each. Each super set is more like doing 1 set as there is no rest between the two movements.
abbs
Lying tri extensions for 2 work sets and then 1 set of pushdowns and then a minute latter one set of dips with elbows in(hammer)

WEDNESDAY
Pullovers in nautilus machine super setted with palm up pulldowns for 2 work sets
Hammer row for 2 sets to work upper mid back

85 degree seated press to front for 1 work set.
lateral raises for 2 sets supersetted with nautilus press 2 sets each
nautilus rear shoulder for 1 set

Shrugs 3 sets

Barbell curls for 2 work sets
then a minute latter palm up chin for 1-2 sets

wrist curls 1 set
sometimes reverse curls for a set

FRIDAYS
If you want mass then try this leg workout!!! And nobody better say it doesn't work!

Warm up in the power rack with full squats. do a few sets of 5 with progressively bigger poundages. Then pile on as much weight as you normally do for your sets of ten in the squat and do 20 reps. Don't laugh...many of you guys don't even com,e close to failure with your 10 reps. The set will take a long time and it will be a killer but keep pushing. Also I am sick and tired of seeing 90% of men doing half squats...LEARN TO DO FULL DEEP HIGH BAR SQUATS! Get flexible in the ankle and hip and you can be a half decent squater. NEVER squat with heels elevated as this is very hard on the knee
If you do not want to do a set of 20 then do 2 all out sets of 10.
Sets of 10 can be alternated with a set of 20 from workout to workout with good results

Rest 2 minutes

Next do one slow set of very strict leg extensions. Hold at the top and do 10-15
The without any rest all jump into a leg press machine (hammer is great) and do 10-15 deep leg presses. Have the weight ready to go. PLEASE take off a few plates and do them DEEP! Pretend this is the last set of legs you will ever do! If thats not enough for you then do another set but you probably won't want to.
NOW sit against a wall for 5 minutes.

Next do two sets of stiff leg deads with straps for 10 reps each

Next 1 set of leg curls

Then do 3-4 sets of donkeys all out for 10-15 reps each...do some rest pause reps after going to failure.


Now you have to eat like a starving man, sleep 8-10 hours per day and do only three 30 minute cardio sessions per week.


Contact Casey Viator at www.caseyviator.com. He has been doing HIT ever since the days he trained with Author Jones. He is 50 and still has a 500 bench and he doesn't do roids anymore!

HIT works, as does low volume very hard work training like 5X5 ...if you want to train 5 and 6 days a week with high volume and medium intensity then go ahead but the vast majority of you are going to need to use steroids to see gains.

AND I challage any high volume man to do my current leg workout...if you work very hard and do the exercises correctly you will see incredible gains, especially while on steroids.

And you guys that don't take roids.....STOP READING THE GLOSSY WEIDER MAGAZINES as they are full of shit for the most part. The routines in these mags are training suicide for you.
If you don't do roids you better check out www.hardgainer.com and www.weightrainer.com

RG






:)
 
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*bump* for this information. The HIT gospel needs to be spread. Mostly because, unlike volume training, it actually WORKS.

Volume only works well if you're genetically elite and/or on steroids. And even then, HIT is probably more effective. I'd say Dorian did pretty well for himself.
 
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