Need help! Still not recovered 7 wks post pct- HCG?

[fray5]

I'm 25 and did a cycle of test prop/tbol for 8 wks. I only did like 2500iu's of hcg the last week and then did clomid for 5 wks. After the clomid my t levels were 636, but my testicles still atrophied. About 4-5 wks later I had more blood work with the following:

FSH 0.9 Low (Ref. Interval 1.5-12.4)
LH 4.0 (Ref. Interval 1.7-8.6)
Testosterone 379 (Ref. Interval 348-1197)
Estradiol <5.1 Low (Ref. Interval 7.6-42.6)

I've been given various opinions from other boards saying I should just wait and then others saying to use HCG/HMG and then nolva/clomid again. Honestly, it's been really rough bc I've had some depression, loss of weight, no libido, and crappy concentration. My testes just don't feel like they normally do and it's really bumming me out. I'm still young and want to have my fun before having a family. What do you all suggest I do? My thoughts right now are that I'll come back, but there's no telling how long that may be. I'm leaning towards the HCG route bc it seems that it'll get me back to form quicker and I don't have to wait around with all the problems my messed up levels are causing me.

 

[John McLane]

I'm 25 and did a cycle of test prop/tbol for 8 wks. I only did like 2500iu's of hcg the last week and then did clomid for 5 wks. After the clomid my t levels were 636, but my testicles still atrophied. About 4-5 wks later I had more blood work with the following:

FSH 0.9 Low (Ref. Interval 1.5-12.4)
LH 4.0 (Ref. Interval 1.7-8.6)
Testosterone 379 (Ref. Interval 348-1197)
Estradiol <5.1 Low (Ref. Interval 7.6-42.6)

I've been given various opinions from other boards saying I should just wait and then others saying to use HCG/HMG and then nolva/clomid again. Honestly, it's been really rough bc I've had some depression, loss of weight, no libido, and crappy concentration. My testes just don't feel like they normally do and it's really bumming me out. I'm still young and want to have my fun before having a family. What do you all suggest I do? My thoughts right now are that I'll come back, but there's no telling how long that may be. I'm leaning towards the HCG route bc it seems that it'll get me back to form quicker and I don't have to wait around with all the problems my messed up levels are causing me.

Your PCT needed some Unleashed and DAA Powder, you should of taken HCGenerate during cycle, and not bothered with the clomid IMO.

 

[fray5]

Your PCT needed some Unleashed and DAA Powder, you should of taken HCGenerate during cycle, and not bothered with the clomid IMO.

Well what would you suggest I do now then?

 

[John McLane]

Well what would you suggest I do now then?

Get some Unleashed/Post cycle combo, DAA powder, zinc, decent multi vit, tribulus at 3000mg a day, use some creatine and decent pre-workout supplement and in 4-5 weeks I PROMISE you that you will feel better....trust me, I have been there and I do want to help you.

 

[joeblow12345]

What were your clomid doses and when did you stop hcg? Lay out your pct so We can see exactly what you did.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using EliteFitness

 

[bigbassturd]

Run unleashed, hcgenerate, and DAA (powder or chews) for a month at the suggested doses. Nolva and clomid aren't going to do shit for you except make you feel like hammered dog shit.

The NTBM pct products are all natural and will have you back to normal before you know it bro.

The worst thing you can do right now is stop training!

 

[Nelson Montana]

you need to re-run your PCT again, and run it longer

Anabolic Steroids - iSteroids.com

I disagree. He'll get the same results. HCG raise test temporarily but if your body doesn't take the cue, levels will just drop back down. That's why you need to support your natural recovery at that point UNLEASHED and protein factory POST-CYCLE will do that.

Clomid and nolvadex do not help ion recovery. That's an old myth. They're anti
estrogens and can make you feel lousy and even slow recovery and diminish gains.

 

[John McLane]

I disagree. He'll get the same results. HCG raise test temporarily but if your body doesn't take the cue, levels will just drop back down. That's why you need to support your natural recovery at that point UNLEASHED and protein factory POST-CYCLE will do that.

Clomid and nolvadex do not help ion recovery. That's an old myth. They're anti
estrogens and can make you feel lousy and even slow recovery and diminish gains.

Spot on Nelson

 

[fray5]

Thanks for all the replies so far! The pct I ran was Clomid 70/70/50/25/25 and Nolva 10/10/10/10. I also ran an AI (Aromasin) during cycle. So you all think Unleashed and Protein factory Post-cyle will bring my nuts, sex drive, and feeling of well-being back?

 

[stevesmi]

okay first off the reason you feel like shit is not cause your T levels are low (they are NOT).. your LH is at 4 which means your body is producing its own test on its own.

you didn't even have to post what you took for PCT cause i already knew you stacked clomid and nolva together and ran them too much. hence why your estrogen is so damn low.. you totally killed your estrogen.. that is why you feel like shit. not only that but also you can kiss your muscle gains goodbye, you cannot build muscle without estrogen.

so as joe blow above said. stay the hell away from clomid and nolva. and just run natty supps. your estrogen will bounce back and you will feel better. your FSH is still low and that is just tough luck my friend and the risk you take using hormones and that may never go back to normal.. but atleast your LH is strong and your test levels will gradually recover.

so run the natty supps and get the hell away from nolva/clomid PCT's.. this is why we tell guys not to run that shitty 1985 style PCT. cause you feel like shit on it. but we still have guys on here argue with the vets and claim thats the way to go.

do you understand what you did wrong here? you stacked 2 estrogen killing things together and hence your estrogen got killed. its pretty simple logic.. thats why breast cancer survivors who get put on nolva for 5 years straight say they would rather DIE then live a life on nolva for 5 years and deal with the awful sides of low estrogen. for a women its absolutely brutal, for a man its not much better. i just want to make sure you learned from your mistake so you don't do it again.. flush the nolva down the toilet so no human ever has to take it again. why do docs give it to women? cause its CHEAP!.. why do bodybuilders take it for pct? cause they are dumb!

 

[fray5]

One of the things I'm having a hard time understanding is that my LH signal is there; however, my testes have not fully blown back up and my FSH is low. I'm going to get more BW in a couple wks to see if there's any improvement. Does this sound like a good idea or should I wait longer? Oh yeah, another thing is that I had my BW done a week before the ones posted and my estrogen was 23 which is normal. I had the BWs taken from different labs each time so could that be the difference? I don't understand how my body can drop from 23 to <5

 

[bigbassturd]

I don't get it steve, there is a wealtg of info out there free for the taking on aas recovery, and I even run into the occasional juicer at the gym who wont use clomid or nolva anymore, yet there are still people waving the AE flag...

To the OP, yes those natty supps with boost you up and get you going again, and I would suggest running hcgenerate with the unleashed/post cycle combo. You'll feel great, and it will help your bloods return to normal faster.

And don't run another cycle without proper planning, pct, and having someone check it out for you bro, the advice here is free, use it!

 

[stevesmi]

One of the things I'm having a hard time understanding is that my LH signal is there; however, my testes have not fully blown back up and my FSH is low. I'm going to get more BW in a couple wks to see if there's any improvement. Does this sound like a good idea or should I wait longer? Oh yeah, another thing is that I had my BW done a week before the ones posted and my estrogen was 23 which is normal. I had the BWs taken from different labs each time so could that be the difference? I don't understand how my body can drop from 23 to <5

you are a victim of getting bad advice from other sites.. now that you are on EF i hope you will stick around and learn the right way to pct.

the biggest part of PCT is what you do during cycle and pre-cycle.

1. you need to cover all bases during cycle (control, not kill, estrogen... keep the nuts plump using hcgenerate
2. you need to run hcg/HMG to kickstart your pct
3. you need to run a proper and balanced pct that will control estrogen (not kill) and keep you feeling good and recover your lipids

you failed to do all of the above.

so learn from your mistakes and don't repeat them. its as simple as that.. you can analyze and wonder why this happened or that happened. why your bloods are here or there. if you don't learn and understand what you did wrong then you are just gonna keep repeating them

 

[stevesmi]

I don't get it steve, there is a wealtg of info out there free for the taking on aas recovery, and I even run into the occasional juicer at the gym who wont use clomid or nolva anymore, yet there are still people waving the AE flag...
!

oh i know why they do it.. they get their advice from other people on other sites.. guys who don't even cycle... guys who are on HRT yet are giving cycling advice. had they cycled correctly they wouldn't be on HRT to begin with. or guys who just stay on all year and come off for a few weeks then jump back on

 

[fray5]

you are a victim of getting bad advice from other sites.. now that you are on EF i hope you will stick around and learn the right way to pct.

the biggest part of PCT is what you do during cycle and pre-cycle.

1. you need to cover all bases during cycle (control, not kill, estrogen... keep the nuts plump using hcgenerate
2. you need to run hcg/HMG to kickstart your pct
3. you need to run a proper and balanced pct that will control estrogen (not kill) and keep you feeling good and recover your lipids

you failed to do all of the above.

so learn from your mistakes and don't repeat them. its as simple as that.. you can analyze and wonder why this happened or that happened. why your bloods are here or there. if you don't learn and understand what you did wrong then you are just gonna keep repeating them

Thanks for the advice, Steve. So taking these natural supps won't suppress me any further, and they will help me get back to my normal levels? It's hard being 25 and having little sex drive. I'm really worried about my FSH because I want to have a family one day. Right now I'm taking ZMA, Vit E, Vit D, multivitamin, and fish oil.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ those supplements are non suppressive...

my theory on FSH is when you start running hormones it will always get lower and lower.. plus as you age it will slowly drop as well. thats the risk you take with hormones. the longer you come off the better chance you have that your FSH will recover. if you cycle on and off for the next decade for example your FSH is gonna take a beating.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Thanks for all the replies so far! The pct I ran was Clomid 70/70/50/25/25 and Nolva 10/10/10/10. I also ran an AI (Aromasin) during cycle. So you all think Unleashed and Protein factory Post-cyle will bring my nuts, sex drive, and feeling of well-being back?

They support your own recovery. SO sicne you already did damage, it'll take a whule but the supplements will make the recovery less rough and imrpove overall levels quicker. Go off of everything and use a doubel dose of UNLEASHED along with the PF POST-CYCLE every day and I'll bet in 3 weeks you'll feel 1000% better.

 

[John McLane]

you need to re-run your PCT again, and run it longer

Anabolic Steroids - iSteroids.com

?? If he does that he will make things worse, using clomid and Nolvadex will destroy his natural test and they are low enough as it is.

 

[RickRock13]

Spot on advice again Steve!

 

[rage22]

I'd say you'll probably feel better in less then a week using unleashed/post cycle/ hcgenerate... Ive been down your path before and it sucks. There is light at the end of the tunnel though, just pick up what these guys have been saying to you and you will recover.

You may even want to add some toco-8 and even a low dose of formastanzol if you can afford all of it.

Fsh I have questions about to, wondering if it'll ever fully come back. It's not the worst thing in the world if you ask me, you can always be put on something to make you fertal again while your trying to conceive a child. At this point when your cycling steroids and god knows what other supplements, do you really think that you'll be " completely natural" and off everything when you conceive a child? I doubt it, so don't sweat it too much. Whats one more thing to take in the am? I would like to see fsh return though.

 

[PEDRO-G]

I go with 2500 iu HCG every 3rd day, 8 shots total. with 40mgs nolvadex aday for 2 weeks then 20 mgs aday for 2 weeks. Been doing this for many years and works great.