Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below well. I'm in need of help. i started my CKD last thursday night (i was getting impatient). I've stuck with 2500 calories a day so far (i'm 187 right now), eating 77%fat, 23%protein roughly. well, i haven't lost ANY water weight. I've actually GAINED weight! what the hell is wrong with me? i'm drinking like 2 gallons of water a day, but am more bloated now than before the diet! I'm also getting fatter i think! I can just tell. So what's the deal? shouldn't i have at least lost water weight!? this is so damn frustrating! It seems everytime I try to drop fat, i end up gaining it! I need some help guys! tell me what you think.
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Need help from Keto folks...
- Thread starter johnjohn
- Start date
I recommend you keep dietary fat to a maximum of 50% until you hit ketosis - preferrably lower. Once you hit ketosis, you should be albe to safely increase your dietary fat intake, although it should seldom exceed 50%.
Up your protein intake, and back off your calories a bit. 2500 might be a tad bit too high, unless you are doing some serious marathon weight training and cardio sessions at the gym on a daily basis.
Up your protein intake, and back off your calories a bit. 2500 might be a tad bit too high, unless you are doing some serious marathon weight training and cardio sessions at the gym on a daily basis.
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I dont mean to flat say Rudee is wrong, but upping the protein intake will just lead to glucogenesis, where protein is broken down to glucose, thus interfering with ketosis. I think the problem might be that john is mistaking the 77/23 ratio he has for grams, not % calories. A good ratio to get in ketosis is usually about 1-1.5 grams of fat to every gram of protein.
I would tend to agree with stolz61 in that you need to limit your protein intake until you're in ketosis. You also may need to cut out processed (ie high salt) foods if you're sodium sensitive. And 2500 is pretty high for someone your weight IMHO, but if your activity level is pretty high then it may be ok. Maybe for your first week cut your calories, salt and protein down a tad and see what happens.
M
Mr.X
Guest
Dear Confused,
To start off, you need to distinguish the difference between CDK and a Ketonic diet.
>CDK: is a low-carb...ex..200lb male has 50-100 carbs all in the morning as oatmeal or brown rice (very low glycemic carbs)
>Target Ketonic diet: HAVE 0 carbs during the day, but have 25-50 powder carbs (like Carbo Max, by max muscle - no sugars), (or baked potatoe), w/ your protein shake right after your workout
>Ketosis
this is what you seem to be trying to do) is a NO CARB diet (limited to 8-10 for the whole day, and not more then 6 carbs at a time)
You should get 85% fat/ 15% protein until you get into Ketosis, once in ketosis every day you change things by 5%...EX... you get into Ketosis on WED... that means on WED your diet is 80% fat/ 20%, THUR> 75% fat/ 25% protein..FRI 70% fat/ 30% protein...SAT> 65% fat/ 35% protein (don't go below 65% fat, I do not reccomend it personally)
Now your fats need to be clean (or try to eat clean fats at least) Flaxseed oil, (at least, 1tbsp 3 times a day), grapeseed oil (high in Omega 6)...you can have steak ofcource, but try to get the cuts that have fat but not too much...you don't want to have A LOT of saturated fat.> A good way is to have tuna w/ MaYo
--> when I started bodybuilding years ago, I used to be short on money, so all I ate was tuna and Mayo, it ripped me up like someone slashed my abs w/ a knife
My 2cents
[email protected]
Mr.X
To start off, you need to distinguish the difference between CDK and a Ketonic diet.
>CDK: is a low-carb...ex..200lb male has 50-100 carbs all in the morning as oatmeal or brown rice (very low glycemic carbs)
>Target Ketonic diet: HAVE 0 carbs during the day, but have 25-50 powder carbs (like Carbo Max, by max muscle - no sugars), (or baked potatoe), w/ your protein shake right after your workout
>Ketosis
this is what you seem to be trying to do) is a NO CARB diet (limited to 8-10 for the whole day, and not more then 6 carbs at a time)You should get 85% fat/ 15% protein until you get into Ketosis, once in ketosis every day you change things by 5%...EX... you get into Ketosis on WED... that means on WED your diet is 80% fat/ 20%, THUR> 75% fat/ 25% protein..FRI 70% fat/ 30% protein...SAT> 65% fat/ 35% protein (don't go below 65% fat, I do not reccomend it personally)
Now your fats need to be clean (or try to eat clean fats at least) Flaxseed oil, (at least, 1tbsp 3 times a day), grapeseed oil (high in Omega 6)...you can have steak ofcource, but try to get the cuts that have fat but not too much...you don't want to have A LOT of saturated fat.> A good way is to have tuna w/ MaYo
--> when I started bodybuilding years ago, I used to be short on money, so all I ate was tuna and Mayo, it ripped me up like someone slashed my abs w/ a knife
My 2cents
[email protected]
Mr.X
If you're referring to gluconeogenesis, then yes, there is a potential for it. However, this catabolic process is common amongst near starvation diets, or those who take in too few calories in relation to their daily expenditure, then stimulate catabolism by over training.
The body will prefer to strip lean muscle tissue over dietary protein for glucose, as muscle tissue gives more energy ounce per ounce. Gluconeogenesis is rare as long as calorie level doesn't drop to catabolic levels, and dietary protein intake is moderate. I'm suggesting he keep protein at a moderate level - not high.
I agree 100% that too much protein - or fat - is not beneficial during periods before the metabolic "shift" towards ketosis.
The body will prefer to strip lean muscle tissue over dietary protein for glucose, as muscle tissue gives more energy ounce per ounce. Gluconeogenesis is rare as long as calorie level doesn't drop to catabolic levels, and dietary protein intake is moderate. I'm suggesting he keep protein at a moderate level - not high.
I agree 100% that too much protein - or fat - is not beneficial during periods before the metabolic "shift" towards ketosis.
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Rudee34, do you have a reference for that info that I could read up on. According to Stryer chapter 22:
"High protein, low carbohydrate diet:
Pancreas alpha-cells secrete glucagon, which in liver and kidney promotes glycogen breakdown, together with GLUCONEOGENESIS FROM DIETARY PROTEIN; ketosis MAY ensue.
Starvation:
Same as for high protein, low carbohydrate diet except that the source of amino acids for gluconeogenesis will be body protein; ketosis WILL ensue." (Caps are my emphasis)
Taken at face value (along with lots of anecdotal eveidence) it would seem prudent to limit dietary protein until ketosis is established. Mr X outlined one method that would work well for most folks.
"High protein, low carbohydrate diet:
Pancreas alpha-cells secrete glucagon, which in liver and kidney promotes glycogen breakdown, together with GLUCONEOGENESIS FROM DIETARY PROTEIN; ketosis MAY ensue.
Starvation:
Same as for high protein, low carbohydrate diet except that the source of amino acids for gluconeogenesis will be body protein; ketosis WILL ensue." (Caps are my emphasis)
Taken at face value (along with lots of anecdotal eveidence) it would seem prudent to limit dietary protein until ketosis is established. Mr X outlined one method that would work well for most folks.
