thnx bigt, it won't work to post.....Quad...will u give me a sample of your routine? I for some reason, just am not getting the feel I like from 5x5.....I did 5x5 rows, squats yesterday....str8 deads 12,10,8,8,6 some leg press and some extentions and just didnt feel like I trained....although, dont get me wrong, when I was doing them I was feeling it and my lifts increased, by just dont get the pump I thrive for....I know, pump means jack, but for me, I like to know I trained hard and heavy..........