My Quest to COMPETE - BEAT THE DISEASE!

[JKurz1]

I am a trainer (14 years) and I agree with your trainer as well, Your CNS simply cannot adapt to that kind of stress. one light one heavy max...I ama Dorian type training advocate as long as ones joints can take it. To much volume in most cases results in over training and regression.

Quad

good discussion.....that's all this is gonna be....no need for flaming (which it hasnt turned out to be, but sometimes will lead to)

Quad - how would you rearrange the above? Edit for your personal 6 day split with core movements daily....


Also, any of you bastards know how to cook crab legs and are they really sky high in sodium???

 

[BiggT]

Jeff....frequency can work well, so can Dorian-type training. 2 totally different methods, one goal: bigger lifts. If it all adds up in the end, you do what your body seems to want to do. that was just a sample, you can rearrange it a million and one ways.....you can move front squats to Mon, and skip squats on Wed....you can back squat heavy once, and front squat later in the week, hell.....you can squat on Monday's only........

Speaking of 14 years (not starting a war here, but pointing out the other side of the coin, which is my perspective from my own experiences), I have been training with squats multiple times a week for just about 14 years (in Nov) and I haven't had problems with overtraining and regression, 80% or so of that time, I have been natural too, so it is perfectly possible to do that for all trainees. Too many people have gotten results doing this to just simply dismiss it on paper.....just as many peopke mismanaged it and screwed it up though, but that is their own fault, there is nothing inherently with the program. I hate when people dismiss it immediately, there is no, one generic model for overtraining, it is a matter of fatigue management and weight selection. If you're sore all week from squatting, it means that your body isn't conditioned to do what you made it do (meaning, you don't squat frequently enough to be conditioned to it).....does it mean anything other than that? No....you can get big and strong squatting 2, 3 ,4 times a week and you can get just as big and strong squatting once a week. When properly managed, squatting multiple times a week subjects the body to more total work/stimulus throughout the week. I am not saying it is the one and only best way, but I wish the guys and girls who only have a pure bodybuilding background would look into it more before just blowing it off.....it has worked since the dawn of time in the strength and conditioning world, again I know physique isn't the main goal, but building muscle is building muscle, and upping lifts is upping lifts.

The front squats are nowhere near as taxing as back squats, and actually feel like a relief on the posterior chain, heavy front squats are about as taxing as 75-80% back squats....you're only doing really 3-4 really taxing back squat sets a week, and if the third day is too much, you can make it 5x8 @ 80% too, just another option.

 

[BiggT]

Jeff, crab legs are great.....I believe there is naturally just a ton of sodium in them, not much you can do about that......just eat them up, then drink lots of water....you're not standing on a stage anytime soon, enjoy them, bro.

 

[blut wump]

I've been training for over twenty years with varying degrees of persistence and dedicaton. I've spent time doing bodyparts once per week but by far prefer working lifts multiple times per week. It just a question of manipulating the variables of volume and intensity and throwing out the nonsense idea that sets must go to failure to be effective.

Many Oly lifters squat 6x per week wothout over-training and, at times, with am and pm sessions. Pushing hard into over-reaching is just another variable to be managed or avoided, as appropriate.

I'm currently squatting 5x to 6x per week as part of a knee-rehab and have zero possibility of it's inducing over-training since I'm working light. Regular, frequent squatting is not only good for general conditioning but also gets rid of most of the annoying delayed onset muscle soreness that 1x per week squatting pretty much guarantees.

 

[Quadsweep]

good discussion.....that's all this is gonna be....no need for flaming (which it hasnt turned out to be, but sometimes will lead to)

Quad - how would you rearrange the above? Edit for your personal 6 day split with core movements daily....


Also, any of you bastards know how to cook crab legs and are they really sky high in sodium???

I have actually done a 4 day split consistantly for years. I would really need to look at all you are doing. I do disagree with some saying overtraining is not more or a possibility with multipule squat lifts per week. as far as Oly. lifters, they do maybe 20 reps per workout. Also no accentuation is put on the eccentric part of both of the Oly Lifts so muscle damage is limited. There is and has to be a finite recovery threshold regardless of conditioning. best is best not more is better. Every man has his limitations.... (Dirty Harry).

Quad

 

[BiggT]

I don't see how overtraining is definitely going to happen squatting multiple times a week, and I don't see how anybody can say something is 'overtraining' on paper, last time I checked, there were no clear-cut, generic, one size fits all definitions for overtraining....it CERTAINLY CAN happen with multiple squat sessions a week IF they are mismanaged, and nobody on here said it wasn't a possibility....... but saying it is definitely going to occur is ridiculous......I squat 3-4 times a week, I don't overtrain, I simply don't understand the logic of making a blanket statement like squatting multiple times a week is going to be overtraining. I put it into practice, others have done it, I have SEEN others do it with success.....I've done it successfully with 100 total reps a week, I am not theorizing here, I am saying I hae done it, and done it for years......I am not saying it is the only to approach training, but I can without a doubt say how idiotic it is for anybody to say that it is 'overtraining' period, without addressing weight selection and fatigue management.

 

[blut wump]

QS, look at it this way: when you have a legs day you might go into the gym and do, including warmups, 10 sets of squats. You'll then hit the leg press for another 5 sets. After that, to squeeze the last bit out of the legs, you might move on to do some leg-extensions. All in all, maybe 20 - 25 sets for legs of assorted exercises, maybe more, many taken to failure, depending on the individual.

In BiggT's template above, he'd have JK doing 14 sets split through the week, likely none of which would go to failure at this stage.

It's not sound to make the statement that 3x per week will lead to overtraining. Before we dismiss the Oly lifters who, as you say, on most of their lifts perform only the concentric part of their workout. This doesn't apply to their squatting on which they have to go down and then come back up just like anyone else.

I'm not suggesting that 1x per week will not work well for any trainee if it's performed with progression as a goal but many, many studies on athletes have shown that 2x or 3x is better than 1x per week. It certainly leads to better conditioning and, as I mentioned previously, reduces needless muscle aches.

At it's simplest, imagine the squatting he'd do in one workout spread over three workouts. How can anyone suggest that this is more likely to lead to overtraining than performing all of the work in one workout? Almost any long-term program is down to manipulating the variables of Intensity (%-age of 1RM), Volume (sets / reps per workout) and frequency (how often one works a lift). By manipulating these variables, stress and any tendency to overtrain can be controlled.

With dual-factor training, for the more advanced trainee, the variables are set to head for overtraining deliberately. As it approaches, and the trainee gets into over-reaching and starts to feel his performance fall, the variables are reduced and modified to permit recovery and ongoing gains before cycling again in a wave-like manner. There are many variations.

For anyone interested in learning more, I can recommend spending some time at Madcow's Geocities site

Athletes have been using these principles for decades. They were the principles that lead the Soviets to dominate the lifting stage and allowed the US to compete on even terms again afterwards. These principles work both for muscular gains and for performance whether training naturally or on gear.

 

[JKurz1]

who the hell does 25 sets for quads??? I do 3 warms, 3 wroking sets...then 3-4 set leg press...3-4 leg ext. and maybe 2 sets hacks for quads and Im fried....

 

[blut wump]

Wuss

 

[JKurz1]

guess so