Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I know its next to impossible to evaluate anyone's form without a vid, but i thought i would post my problem anyway. I have recently been doing squats again, the first time since high school. I quit them in high school cuz i pulled a hamstring really bad and i was scared of getting hurt. Well anyways i been doin em again, and working out with really light weight until i get my form good. But even with no weight on my shoulders, i have trouble keeping my back perfectly straight, i always want to lean forward a little. Is this normal, or am i doin something wrong? Im not leaning forward to excess, but i am leaning.
My problem with squats
- Thread starter JLowe02
- Start date
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RachelEFC
Guest
JLowe02 said:
Maybe work on strengthening your lower back/core. That seems to help me.
I think I may have a similar problem in regards to leaning. When I am going heavy on the squats and I drop below parallel, it seems that during my ascent my back leans forward at some point, and my upper back is finishing off the lift (which I feel in my lower back). It's almost like a semi-good morning at the end of the rep. My upper legs are definitely powering the beginning of the ascent, but my upper back seems pushing against the barbell to finish it. How big of a problem is?JLowe02 said:
Last edited:
thebadguy54
New member
post a vid... side view would be best
artificialaspirations
New member
the lean is necessary for the bar to travel up and down in a linear fashion. Search vids on the net or watch yourself in mirror. mechanically the body cannot do it. Whats most important is to maintain the arch in your back.
The balance issues you are having will iron themselves out as you get more used to the movement. The stabilizers will delevop and make this easier. In the mean time squat down and act like you are picking up a 40 lb sack of potatoes and stand straight up with it. You will feel that your body knows the correct way to squat and lift w/ its legs. Practice this without weight and then w/ the bar on your shoulders and strenght will go up quickly.
The balance issues you are having will iron themselves out as you get more used to the movement. The stabilizers will delevop and make this easier. In the mean time squat down and act like you are picking up a 40 lb sack of potatoes and stand straight up with it. You will feel that your body knows the correct way to squat and lift w/ its legs. Practice this without weight and then w/ the bar on your shoulders and strenght will go up quickly.
B
Big_BK
Guest
What kind of shoes are you wearing. Most shoes throw you forward, add 300lbs on your back and you exaggerate it fast.
Big_BK said:
Hot damn it. You are the man, and well, I'm just dense. I was wearing basketball shoes to squat b/c they have a lot of support. However, I tended to lean forward when the weight got heavy. Today, I put on some flat shoes(pumas) and my squats were much better. Thank you sir! Something so simple helped me add on 20 lbs to my squats. TY TY TY
DaveTSI
New member
didnt even think of that when i read this thread, nice catch BK
any shoe like BB, crosstrainers, etc. that have a raised heal combined with a soft sole will rob you of a lot of LBS. when squatting and deadlifting.
i wear converse chuck taylors when i squat and adidas wrestling shoes for deadlifting.
any shoe like BB, crosstrainers, etc. that have a raised heal combined with a soft sole will rob you of a lot of LBS. when squatting and deadlifting.
i wear converse chuck taylors when i squat and adidas wrestling shoes for deadlifting.
Blane
New member
The change of footware should fix the mechanics. If for some reason the problem starts to creep back in.
try this: when at the bottom(meaning breaking pararell) do not think of pressing with the legs. Instead start the upward movement by driving your hips forward to stand up. this will keep your butt from shooting out/or from you folding up...
Also bar placement. If the bar is a bit too low on the back it can force you to lean forward to get leverage.
try this: when at the bottom(meaning breaking pararell) do not think of pressing with the legs. Instead start the upward movement by driving your hips forward to stand up. this will keep your butt from shooting out/or from you folding up...
Also bar placement. If the bar is a bit too low on the back it can force you to lean forward to get leverage.
ghettostudmuffin
New member
That's actually incorrect or at least partially.
A raised heel combined with a high on the back bar placement is the easiest way to squat very upright.
Classic examples are olympic weightlifters. Their shoes sport an easy 3/4" to 1" heel on them.
I squat pretty close to olympic style in converse chuck taylor's(classic cheap basketball shoes favored by many powerlifters), but they aren't ideal for closer stances or more upright squat styles. I currently have some nice olympic shoes on their way to me.
Trying to do a very upright squat in flat soled shoes causes a huge stretch in the calves and many people do not have the flexibility to pull this off right. I can from practice, but because of the angle of the shin and ankle in relation to your thigh and back it's extremely difficult to ever get really upright with any kind of weight on your back with flat soled shoes that makes you work hard. The flat soles and huge stretch on the calves causes most people including me to lean forward more than they would like even when you don't want to because your body forces you to.
Grab a broom and find a mirror or window you can see yourself sideways in. Place the broom on your upper back just under the bump at the bottom of your neck/upper back. That is part of your spine and you don't want weight sitting above or on that, but just under it. Your grip width should be comfortable, but tight enough that you can push your elbows back and feel a tight contraction in your traps and middle of the back.
Now stand sideways to a mirror/window. Looking at the mirror with the corner of your eye in the starting squat position, begin the descent by pushing your ass back first. As you push it back you will naturally lean forward the farther you push. While pushing back with your ass also start squatting down. What you should notice is that the ass goes back first, then the shoulder and head move forward and as this is happening you are descending down. Go as low as you can while keeping your back flat or slightly arched. Foot position will effect this. For upright squats heels shoulder width to a couple inches wider than that on each side seems to work best. You may be able to get your hamstrings to touch your calves.
If that is the case then you have good flexibility in the groin and lower body. But, while in the deep full squat position and with flat back evaluate your form? Are your shoulders past your knee caps? Does it appear your hips have rotated down and forward to achieve this depth?
Now place a solid flat object under each heel that is between 3/4" to 1" thick.
Squat again and notice how your body changes position as you descend into the squat with your heels now elevated. Now that you are in the full squat position your hamstringes should be easily touching your calves, you should have some forward lean, but less than when flat footed and your hips should be higher and back more than with flat feet.
Squatting with slightly elevated heels is not bad for you done properly. When you are in the full squat postion you should not feel any stress on the knees. The keys to this are to have your feet turned outwards between 15-30 degrees, heels shoulder width or slight wider and when you reach full depth your upper body should feel like its comfortably between your legs, not forcing itself down and on top of them.
Not squatting down and between your legs is how people hurt their knees. A classic example of how not to squat is toes straight forward, heel slightly inside of shoulder width and have some weight on the bar. Squat straight down. The knees end up moving forward first rather than the ass moving back. When you get into the full squat position your hamstrings are too tight against your calves which is exacerbated by the extra weight on your back which forces open the knee joint which in turn is not good.
Then to make matters worse people bounce down into the full squat position and bounce out of it all while using this stance style.
That is how knees get injured by squats. IMPROPERLY performed squats. Not necessarily elevated heels.
Now if you want to squat like a powerlifter then flat soled shoes are what you want because that is a wider stance squat that only needs the hip to get down to parallel or juuust under parallel where as a real full squat is quite abit deeper than that, but since It sounded like you want to squat more olympic or athletic style I tried to describe it as best I can.
Squatting is a very natural thing. Squatting with heavy weight on your back is not. If you were under a heavy beam and wanted to get it up higher you would get under it with relatively flat feet
and push your back flat against it and then push against it hard focusing on driving your legs into the ground rather than your back into the beam. Similar to the mechanic of a very heavy powerlifting squat. You can watch videos of all the greats and they all have quite alot of forward lean with heavy weight on their back. The key is the back may be leaned over alot, but it is flat still or slightly arched. This style cannot be done properly in raised heel shoes.
Hope this helps.
A raised heel combined with a high on the back bar placement is the easiest way to squat very upright.
Classic examples are olympic weightlifters. Their shoes sport an easy 3/4" to 1" heel on them.
I squat pretty close to olympic style in converse chuck taylor's(classic cheap basketball shoes favored by many powerlifters), but they aren't ideal for closer stances or more upright squat styles. I currently have some nice olympic shoes on their way to me.
Trying to do a very upright squat in flat soled shoes causes a huge stretch in the calves and many people do not have the flexibility to pull this off right. I can from practice, but because of the angle of the shin and ankle in relation to your thigh and back it's extremely difficult to ever get really upright with any kind of weight on your back with flat soled shoes that makes you work hard. The flat soles and huge stretch on the calves causes most people including me to lean forward more than they would like even when you don't want to because your body forces you to.
Grab a broom and find a mirror or window you can see yourself sideways in. Place the broom on your upper back just under the bump at the bottom of your neck/upper back. That is part of your spine and you don't want weight sitting above or on that, but just under it. Your grip width should be comfortable, but tight enough that you can push your elbows back and feel a tight contraction in your traps and middle of the back.
Now stand sideways to a mirror/window. Looking at the mirror with the corner of your eye in the starting squat position, begin the descent by pushing your ass back first. As you push it back you will naturally lean forward the farther you push. While pushing back with your ass also start squatting down. What you should notice is that the ass goes back first, then the shoulder and head move forward and as this is happening you are descending down. Go as low as you can while keeping your back flat or slightly arched. Foot position will effect this. For upright squats heels shoulder width to a couple inches wider than that on each side seems to work best. You may be able to get your hamstrings to touch your calves.
If that is the case then you have good flexibility in the groin and lower body. But, while in the deep full squat position and with flat back evaluate your form? Are your shoulders past your knee caps? Does it appear your hips have rotated down and forward to achieve this depth?
Now place a solid flat object under each heel that is between 3/4" to 1" thick.
Squat again and notice how your body changes position as you descend into the squat with your heels now elevated. Now that you are in the full squat position your hamstringes should be easily touching your calves, you should have some forward lean, but less than when flat footed and your hips should be higher and back more than with flat feet.
Squatting with slightly elevated heels is not bad for you done properly. When you are in the full squat postion you should not feel any stress on the knees. The keys to this are to have your feet turned outwards between 15-30 degrees, heels shoulder width or slight wider and when you reach full depth your upper body should feel like its comfortably between your legs, not forcing itself down and on top of them.
Not squatting down and between your legs is how people hurt their knees. A classic example of how not to squat is toes straight forward, heel slightly inside of shoulder width and have some weight on the bar. Squat straight down. The knees end up moving forward first rather than the ass moving back. When you get into the full squat position your hamstrings are too tight against your calves which is exacerbated by the extra weight on your back which forces open the knee joint which in turn is not good.
Then to make matters worse people bounce down into the full squat position and bounce out of it all while using this stance style.
That is how knees get injured by squats. IMPROPERLY performed squats. Not necessarily elevated heels.
Now if you want to squat like a powerlifter then flat soled shoes are what you want because that is a wider stance squat that only needs the hip to get down to parallel or juuust under parallel where as a real full squat is quite abit deeper than that, but since It sounded like you want to squat more olympic or athletic style I tried to describe it as best I can.
Squatting is a very natural thing. Squatting with heavy weight on your back is not. If you were under a heavy beam and wanted to get it up higher you would get under it with relatively flat feet
and push your back flat against it and then push against it hard focusing on driving your legs into the ground rather than your back into the beam. Similar to the mechanic of a very heavy powerlifting squat. You can watch videos of all the greats and they all have quite alot of forward lean with heavy weight on their back. The key is the back may be leaned over alot, but it is flat still or slightly arched. This style cannot be done properly in raised heel shoes.
Hope this helps.
AEKDB
New member
Great post ghettostudmuffin!
For those of you who have not seen it, Dan John gives a great tutorial on how to squat. It is long but worth the time. In addition to the squat tips, he gives some great tips for the Oly lifts.
Video:The Video FitCast- Episode 6
For those of you who have not seen it, Dan John gives a great tutorial on how to squat. It is long but worth the time. In addition to the squat tips, he gives some great tips for the Oly lifts.
Video:The Video FitCast- Episode 6
artificialaspirations
New member
Anyone have one of his video about deads or bench?
highlander555
New member
The reason why you lean forward (in your case too much) is probably because of ankle inflexiblity (ie tight calves). When you descend down into your squat, your butt sticks out. To counterbalance that, your body shifts your weight forward (knees traveling forward). If you're ankles aren't flexible enough your knees can't travel forward to counterbalance your butt. Regaurdless, the body isn't going to let itself fall back on its ass and look like a fool, so it shifts weight forward to keep you balanced the only way it can-- by having you lean forward (placing stress on your back).
The key to solving this is to work on increasing your ankle flexiblity, which is usually just an issue of tight calves. Loosen those bad boys up and your knees will be able to travel forward more easily, which will allow your body to balance itself, which will keep you from having to lean forward so much just to stay on your feet.
Good luck with the training bro.
The key to solving this is to work on increasing your ankle flexiblity, which is usually just an issue of tight calves. Loosen those bad boys up and your knees will be able to travel forward more easily, which will allow your body to balance itself, which will keep you from having to lean forward so much just to stay on your feet.
Good luck with the training bro.
wear flat shoes. go only to parallel. put the bar higher on your back if you want to be more upright. the lower the bar is on your back the more you will lean forward. push your hips forward as you ascend. and start doing alot more goodmornings
B
Big_BK
Guest
If you are just starting out and stabilizers are week DO NOT USE A BELT! Actually, i wouldn't use a belt period unless you are going for a max. Now that i've been doing beltless training i can hit 455 comfortably without any support gear.
Ever since I started using a belt with squats, I stopped hurting myself lol
I used to go pretty damn heavy...
What is your reasoning for not using a belt when squatting bro?
Scotsman
New member
Squatting without the belt makes your body stabilize the weight on it's own and will help increase core strength. Unless you are going maximal or near maximal weight you shouldn't use a belt. Since the belt helps stabilize you overuse of it will impede progress in the core. As you get stonger the weight at which you need a belt goes up as does the weight you can handle without one. Use a belt as a training tool not a crutch and you will gain a lot better.
Cheers,
Scotsman
agreed. don't use a belt except for max attempts
B
Big_BK
Guest
Yeah scotts is on the right track. I was using it for pretty much everything and although i was strong as hell, when that belt came off i lost alot on my lifts. I also had some weaknesses in my form which came down to a weak core so i dropped the belt on everything. Sure my lifts suffered but after a short amount of time they were right back up where they were. When you wear a belt it gives your abs something to push against giving you a tight core which is good and you want that but when you dont use a belt your abs have to work harder to keep tight since they dont have anything to push against as well as all your other stabilizer muscles. When you start out you have to do weight you can handle and slowly work your way up, that is how you avoid injury.
rediculus
New member
He's got it right. A buddy of mine can and prefers to actually sit on his heels..like we go to a restaraunt he squats in the chair. I squat down at first it was tough because I didn't realize how inflexible my calves were. Gradually getting better (other than getting dizzy and crashing with 315 on my back ouch...) I punched from 250 for 5 to 315 for 5. That's going to parallel not DEEP Knee squats.
squirt-tribepowerlifting
New member
regardless of ur height post a vid
but to me sounds like weak glutes and core
incorporate reverse hypers, glute-ham raise, and lots of STANDING abs
also do hip briges a few times a week outside of the gym and blast strap ab fallouts are great too
but to me sounds like weak glutes and core
incorporate reverse hypers, glute-ham raise, and lots of STANDING abs
also do hip briges a few times a week outside of the gym and blast strap ab fallouts are great too
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