my 5x5 SF journal..

[carlsuen]

hey guys.. i decided to start on the 5x5 SF for novice lifters yesterday.. shit.. am feeling it in my legs now.. i've never done full squats before and i'm feeling it now.. pretty exited tho..

week 1 day 1 - tuesday

light cardio-10min(warmup)

squats (all in KG)
50x5
60x5
65x5
70x3(failed on 4th rep)
50x7

bench
30x5
35x5
35x5
37.5x5
37.5x5

bent rows
40x5
50x5
55x5
57.5x5
60x5

overall.. my bench was very dissapointing and i think i would like to progress on my bench conservatively for i don't have a work out partner to spot for me as i'm really weak..

squats were great!! but i had to stretch for about 5-10 mins after that..
bent rows were good too.. so i'm looking forward to increase the weights on saturday..

 

[carlsuen]

right, so i have a question.. should i do some core work like situps before my squats? cuz i have a very weak core (found that out when i was doing my 4th squat set)..

and another question.. must i do all the core lifts in that particular order? or can i put my squats last or mix em up? cuz after squats, i get really wobbly in my legs and can't seem to do my bent rows properly after that..

 

[asdfzxcv]

right, so i have a question.. should i do some core work like situps before my squats? cuz i have a very weak core (found that out when i was doing my 4th squat set)..

and another question.. must i do all the core lifts in that particular order? or can i put my squats last or mix em up? cuz after squats, i get really wobbly in my legs and can't seem to do my bent rows properly after that..

First I must say good choice on picking this program

Usually you want to do the most important exercises first like squats as they are the prime exercise in this program and you dont want to compromise them.If you are new to this amount of squatting you might be a bit shakey for the first few weeks due to lack of conditioning to this much work.Dont worry it will pass,I dont even get sore the day after squats anymore,you get accustomed to it.

I also noticed something,you have quite a strong row compared with your bench,are you doing the rows with the back 90degrees to the ground?Sorry to nitpick but its weird to see such a difference between your bench and row.

Anyway goodluck

 

[carlsuen]

my back is 45-60 degrees with my knees slightly bent.. or should i be doing 90?

funny thing is my pulls are better then my push.. my DL's are also up to 70kg's.. my OHP's are not any better than my bench too..

what do u think is the prob? might be my row form.. i've looked thru all the bent rows vid.. and most of them are done 45 degrees..

 

[asdfzxcv]

my back is 45-60 degrees with my knees slightly bent.. or should i be doing 90?

funny thing is my pulls are better then my push.. my DL's are also up to 70kg's.. my OHP's are not any better than my bench too..

what do u think is the prob? might be my row form.. i've looked thru all the bent rows vid.. and most of them are done 45 degrees..

You should try to stay as close to 90degrees as possible in order to activate the lats as much as possible.

here is a few links from madcows site in regards to rows
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4697367&postcount=301
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366601

 

[carlsuen]

aight man.. thx for ur comments.. k to u..

 

[carlsuen]

is this 45 or 90?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Bent+Over+Barbell+Row

 

[asdfzxcv]

is this 45 or 90?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Bent+Over+Barbell+Row

That looks closer to 45 to me,this link has pictures about 2/3rds down the page
http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=498&view=findpost&p=9976
Notice how the back stays fairly level with the ground.

If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask

 

[carlsuen]

so if i have to go that low with my back do i pull it to my chest or past my knees and back to my abs?

 

[carlsuen]

another question.. i've read both the SF and DF version.. and the DF version has a deloading period which allows one to lay off heavily for a while..

what about the SF version? and how long should i be doing the 5x5 SF? and after i've completed a period do i take time off?

 

[asdfzxcv]

In regards to the rows they should be pulled to about mid to lower part of the chest,of course this will depend on individual body structure.For instance I am 6'4 with long legs so it would be awkward to pull it to my abs and maintain proper position.As long as you keep your lower back arched you should be fine.Even if you cant get to precisely 90degrees just get as close as possible and work with that.

In regards to the program it can be run in a linear(single-factor) manner for quite a while,6-12+months in many cases.You dont need to deload with the single factor version,you simply drop the weights back 2-3weeks and ramp up again when you stall.This serves as a crude deload without having to switch to the dual factor version.

For begginers like us the single factor version is far better as it allows for weekly progression,rather then every 4-8weeks with the dual factor version.

I promise that if you keep the food up this program will get you very strong very fast.

Goodluck,ask if you have further queries.

 

[carlsuen]

hey thx for the help.. i really appreciate it.. now looking forward to see how much i can squat tomorrow.. my quads are quite fried from testerday..

 

[asdfzxcv]

You should try to build up over a few weeks to record weights in order to get used to the movements and build up tolerance to all the squatting.No need to rush it and hurt yourself due to being overzealous,there will be plenty of time to ramp up to big lifts.

Also,out of curiousity what are your current record lifts?

 

[carlsuen]

erm.. i've never actually tested my 1RM.. or 5RM for that matter.. everytime i go into the gym i just try to add more weights compared to the last w/o.. but only small increases like 5 kg max..

my current best which i can complete in a 1x5 is

squat 75kg
DL 75kg
OHP's 30kg
bench 50kg
bent rows 75kg

waht about u? and how long have u been training? i'd like to compare.. not as in the weights.. but how u progressed..

 

[asdfzxcv]

My numbers are pretty shit,but up until a few months ago I was focused on losing weight(lost close to 60lb) but here goes

this is over about 3months,Mine was modified due to not having a bench(only squat stands+olybar/weights)

Squat
from 50kgx1 to 102.5kgx5

deads
from about
80x5 to 105x5(only started doing these a little while ago as I didnt have full sized plates as I workout at home)

Push press(in place of bench,like a OHP but with minor leg drive)
45x5 to 60x5

Chinups.....lol
like 1 to 5X5

OHP
40x5 to 50x5

Power cleans(substituted for rows)
40kgx5 with shit form to 65x5easy

These results may not be a good indication due to the fact that I didnt have access to all the equipment needed.Also I didnt eat to gain weight so that slowed down my gains too.

However in the next few days(getting a bench for x-mas) I am restarting the program and I am going to eat like my life depends on it,that will get things moving fast.

 

[carlsuen]

whoa man.. u must have quite an impressive upper body.. what are ur specs?

and good luck with ur program..

 

[anotherbutters]

You should try to build up over a few weeks to record weights in order to get used to the movements and build up tolerance to all the squatting.No need to rush it and hurt yourself due to being overzealous,there will be plenty of time to ramp up to big lifts.

I'll second that. If you've never done full squats before, go back to say 60kg and add 2.5kg per week. If you're eating enough to put on weight, you'll get that 70kgx5 when you try it again, and you should be able to add another 2.5kg each week thereafter for quite a while. Just keep eating.

Get yourself a copy of the Starting Strength book (http://www.startingstrength.com) as that will teach you the correct form for all the major lifts. Better to start with good form than have to unlearn bad form later.

Good luck!

 

[asdfzxcv]

whoa man.. u must have quite an impressive upper body.. what are ur specs?

and good luck with ur program..

Dude.......my body is still recovering from 18years of neglect,its a mess.I used to weigh about 120kg(about 260lb) at 16years old with god knows how much bodyfat and a 48inch waist.I was in such poor shape I couldnt manage a single push-up.The last 2 years have been a battle to lose the weight and I am now attempting to get as strong as humanly possible to rebuild whats left.

I am currently about 6'4 at about 195lb,fairly lean except for the stomach which is covered in stretch marks and a bit of excess skin from all the weight lost.Not vEry much muscle but I am working on it at the moment.The hardest part for me now is the mental battle.I am afraid to get fat again so I am somewhat reluctant to ''eat big to get big'' if you know what I mean.

Sometimes when I see people with 500lb squats and other insane lifts it depresses me to think that I have come so far yet I am nothing compared with most individuals on these forums.But it gives me motivation to try harder I guess.

Sorry to get all Emotional and shit in your journal,hope you have good luck with it anyway.

 

[carlsuen]

so does that mean that i should max my squats to only 60kg? this week?

also.. does this program work for a BB? i think more of a BB then a PL.. maybe 60%BB and 40 %PL.. or am i doing the wrong program?

i'm not aiming to do 300++lbs bench.. but i'm not neglecting strength training too.. as i know it's the most important of all..

 

[carlsuen]

hey man... i think neglecting ur feelings is not a healthy thing to do.. at least i know that someone else feels the way i do.. i mean congrats on losing that much weight!! i don't think that's easy.. i think so long as u continue lifting and eating.. u won't turn fat..

at least i learnt these from these boards.. do u do cardio also? i think they are important if u wanna lose fats..

anyway happy holidays for u.. and merry christmas.. i'm signing off of work..

 

[asdfzxcv]

so does that mean that i should max my squats to only 60kg? this week?

also.. does this program work for a BB? i think more of a BB then a PL.. maybe 60%BB and 40 %PL.. or am i doing the wrong program?

i'm not aiming to do 300++lbs bench.. but i'm not neglecting strength training too.. as i know it's the most important of all..

Yes you should start at 60kg and work your way up over 3-4weeks.

In regards to your question about it working for a bb let me just say it will work fine.Mark Rippotoe(one of the top strength coaches in the U.S) uses this program on his new lifters and he makes them eat like crazy.Muscle gains of 30-40lb in six months are possible for a well fed lifter as well as massive strength gains in the major lifts.

Here is a quote from an interview on http://readthecore.com/200507/trenches4.htm
Matt: So how long does it typically take before a kid starts to stagnate from all the squatting without backing off?

Rip: Your standard 5’8” 150 junior in high school that will not eat will get stuck in about a month. Then he’ll quit anyway, so let’s talk about your non-standard 5’8” junior that actually will do the program. He’ll gain 5-7 pounds the first week, 15 lbs. the first month, and put 100 lbs. on his squat before he even slows down. Remember that as his squat goes up, his bodyweight does too, so it’s really not the same kid every workout. It’s a little bit bigger kid doing the workout, one that responds a little bit better than the previous version of the kid. He literally adapts fast enough that the concept of “1RM” or “5RM” is not valid, since the tested max applies to a kid that doesn’t exist anymore. The weight gain drives the strength increase, and the strength gain makes him bigger if he eats enough. Most practitioners do not get to see this happen (since trainees that will actually comply with such a program are very rare), and most academics will argue that it can’t (since they’ve never seen it in a peer-reviewed study). But I’ve had several trainees gain 60 pounds their first year at the gym. I’ve had lots of kids gain 30 pounds in 4 months. Lots. It obviously varies with the individual, but simple linear progress can continue for 3-6 months before any changes at all to the program need to be made.

Rest assured this program can add muscle.

 

[asdfzxcv]

Here is a program that is kind of similiar to the 5x5,Mark Rippetoe actually advised me to do this when I e-mailed him a few weeks ago.

Workout A

3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift/Power Clean 5x3,alternate every workout ''A''

Workout B

3x5 Squat
3x5 Military Press
3x5 Chinups
3x8 Weighted hyperextensions/ Good mornings

Warm up using several sets before doing the 3 work sets (or 1 for the deadlift). If you're using 175, for example, it would look like this:

Warm up sets

2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155

Work sets

3x5x175


You alternate workout A and B, 3 non-consecutive days per week. So you might do:

Week 1

M

Workout A

W

Workout B

F

Workout A

Week 2

M

Workout B

W

Workout A

F

Workout B


Add weight to the bar whenever possible. If you're very new to lifting weights, or if most of your lifting has focused on curls and other isolation movements, you'll probably be able to add some weight each workout. Maybe 5-10 lbs each time in the squat and deadlift, and about 5 lbs in the other three lifts. Eventually you won't be able to sustain such progress, and you'll have to get microplates so you can increase by smaller increments. Or you could make them out of chain:

http://davedraper.com/forum/showflat...3/Main/126754/

And eat a lot of food. A whole lot.

It's fine to add some assistance work such as abs, hypers, or maybe some direct biceps and triceps work, but don't overdo it. For direct arm work, 3 sets of 8 of one lift for each muscle at the end of your last workout of the week will be plenty. Your arms are getting hit hard all week on this routine, so you don't want to blast them with iso stuff as well.

The part about food is important. You MUST eat big to get big. Rippetoe recommends 4 meals per day, plus a gallon of milk spread throughout the day.

Whichever you choose to do will yeild good results.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Man this board is getting good!

asdf is giving you priceless info carlsuen. IMO based on your history I'd go with the Rippetoe program, then when it stalls in a few months transition to SF. And in regards to bb vs. pl, at this stage of the game Rippetoe's program is best IMO for either. As a beginner, it's as simple as getting bigger and stronger, regardless of the specifics of the goal. Keep things as simple as possible for as long as possible. The only reason to complicate things is out of pure necessity and not the natural urge to tinker with things just for the sake of tinkering .

 

[carlsuen]

wow thx for the info asdfzxcv.. i really appreciate it.. i started workout B yesterday.. and gonna start A tomorrow..

squats
1x5xbar
1x5x40kg
1x5x50
3x5x60(work set)

incline
1x5x10
1x5x20
1x5x25
3x5x27.5

deads
1x5x50kg
1x5x55
1x5x60
1x5x70(work set)

OHP
1x5xbar
1x5x10kg
1x5x15
1x5x20
1x5x22.5
1x5x25
1x5x27.5

chinups
3x5xBW(supported.. i'm still not strong to carry my self..)

abwork and stretching

overall.. i added OHP cuz i missed them..but i will follow Work out A properly
tommorow.. i weighted myself yesterday... i'm down to 88kg.. shit.. i think i'm not eating enuff.. but i'm really looking forward to this program and thx a bunch for ur advice!!