Muscles giving out prematurely

[1999TL]

First off, thanks in advance for taking the time to read my post. You guys have helped me a ton along the way.

My problem is that my muscles tend to give out after the 3rd set or so. I have been training for hypertrophy, so I am aiming for a good 10 reps/set. My first few reps will seem easy, then it seems my muscles just give out. I've been shooting for a minute of rest in between sets. It doesn't matter what exercise I'm doing either. For example, Let's say I'm doing dumb bell presses. On my 3rd set, the first 3 or 4 reps are pushed up pretty easily. Then, out of nowhere, my muscles start to struggle. I find this weird b/c the first couple of reps felt pretty easy. After this, it seems all of my exercises fail at about the 6th rep.

I've been asking myself what is the problem for awhile now. Do I just have fast twitch fibers that are hard to train in the 10 rep range? Should I start using creatine to help me? Or, am I just going to heavy for a minute rest. I kind of crossed out the last one b/c sometimes, I'll even drop down 10 pounds, but my muscles still give out.

Anybody have this sort of problem? Thanks fellas.

 

[captainahole]

could be a bit of a nutrition problem. To many simple carbs in the system. You eat well?

 

[fortunatesun]

Try giving yourself another 30 seconds between sets. The rule of thumb is 1 min. for speed/conditioning, 90 seconds for hypertrophy, and 2 min. for strength.

 

[1999TL]

Yes, I eat pretty well. Every mornings it's the same: oatmeal with a banana mixed in and eggs. The rest of the meals vary, but I mainly eat at home. I've actually just been giving myself about 1:30-2 mins rest actually. I'll try the 1 minute deal so I can get out of the gym, but when I notice I can only crank out 4-5 reps or so, I'll increase reps. Thanks fellas.

 

[fortunatesun]

Work capacity would be your search keyword then. Absolute strength is the total amount of weight you can lift, say 100 lbs for 10 reps. Work capacity is how much you can do with it - 1 set, 3, or 5.

I found this link on the first page. It explains the basic concept of increasing your work capacity. Extra workouts are a good way to go. You might be able to find something specifically suited to your goals.

 

[Jocques Straap]

You need to give yourself adequate rest, do you feel like you are tired before you start your set? Or are you ready to go?

How old are you?
how long have you been training?
What kinda weight are you moving?
How much you weight?
Do you take Creatine?
Do you do any cardio?
Sports?

 

[ExtraMile]

Id imagine if you are going into the sets while still tired it is just too little rest and maybe not enough fuel pre workout. If you are ready to go, not tired but can only get 4-5 reps its either muscular endurance or too heavy weight...

 

[1999TL]

You need to give yourself adequate rest, do you feel like you are tired before you start your set? Or are you ready to go?

How old are you? 27
how long have you been training? on and off for yrs. Consistent 2 months again.
What kinda weight are you moving? Dumb bells bench- 75-90 depends on rep and rest. Squat 275, never try to max. I'm weak...
How much you weight? 180 lbs
Do you take Creatine? No, debating taking it b/c of this problem.
Do you do any cardio? Not much.
Sports?

Played flag football this eason. LOL. Been hooping a little bit. Need more cardio.

 

[1999TL]

Id imagine if you are going into the sets while still tired it is just too little rest and maybe not enough fuel pre workout. If you are ready to go, not tired but can only get 4-5 reps its either muscular endurance or too heavy weight...

I'm thinking its muscle endurance b/c even when I try a lighter weight, the first few reps seem light and then I feel like I have no more energy. I feel fine when starting the set.

 

[wills_got_rythm]

First off, thanks in advance for taking the time to read my post. You guys have helped me a ton along the way.

My problem is that my muscles tend to give out after the 3rd set or so. I have been training for hypertrophy, so I am aiming for a good 10 reps/set. My first few reps will seem easy, then it seems my muscles just give out. I've been shooting for a minute of rest in between sets. It doesn't matter what exercise I'm doing either. For example, Let's say I'm doing dumb bell presses. On my 3rd set, the first 3 or 4 reps are pushed up pretty easily. Then, out of nowhere, my muscles start to struggle. I find this weird b/c the first couple of reps felt pretty easy. After this, it seems all of my exercises fail at about the 6th rep.





I've been asking myself what is the problem for awhile now. Do I just have fast twitch fibers that are hard to train in the 10 rep range? Should I start using creatine to help me? Or, am I just going to heavy for a minute rest. I kind of crossed out the last one b/c sometimes, I'll even drop down 10 pounds, but my muscles still give out.

Anybody have this sort of problem? Thanks fellas.

I dont have this problem but maybe you are using to heavy a weight for your warm up sets....I notice if I do that then I will have less endurance for my work sets and I have to rest longer between sets....just a thought....

 

[SouthernLord]

When is the last time you took a week off or took down the intensity for a week? Maybe you are over training.

 

[1999TL]

When is the last time you took a week off or took down the intensity for a week? Maybe you are over training.

That would be beginning of December. took almost 2 weeks off.

 

[Jocques Straap]

You're failing at the muscular level. This means that their is simply not enough energy within the muscle to supply the energy needed to complete the set.

-Just going to throw some ideas out there:


Creatine, will give you more energy, possibly enough to get though the set.

The other options are, to drop weight, and complete the set with the lighter weight.

Upping calories may also help, also drinking more water. Pre exercise nutrition may not be adequate.

Start doing some cardio. 10-15minutes after your workout is a good start.

 

[1999TL]

Thanks Jocques straap. I think I'm going to start doing HIIT sprints again. I've always just saved that for when I'm cutting. I'm going to add in playing basketball more regularly because I just can't stand just jogging. I actually prefer sprints. However, playing sports passes the time by the most.

I really think creatine will help. My ego doesn't like to drop the weight because when I do drop the weight, I still do the same amount of reps. heh. I'll try cardio first and see how that goes. If I'm still failing, I will have to get back on creatine. I didn't take kre alkalyn so well, so this time I'll go back to monohydrate. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[ceo]

you need to examine every aspect of every day. How much are you eating? Keep a journal of everything you eat, every day. How much rest are you getting? Get to bed early (by 11pm) and get 7-8 hours of sleep every night. How many days a week are you training? How many days are you doing cardio? Do you play your sports on the same days you train?

A lot of variables there, but sounds like you'er a pretty active guy. My best guess is that you're overtraining, not getting adequate rest for your activity level, and not getting enough nutrition. Maybe one or two of those, but possibly all 3.

You've got some homework to do, because you're the only one who knows what you're doing every day and the answer lies therein.

 

[dabuffguy]

Try giving yourself another 30 seconds between sets. The rule of thumb is 1 min. for speed/conditioning, 90 seconds for hypertrophy, and 2 min. for strength.

meh, there's a lot more to it than that. If you are pressing 120+lb dumbbells and 300+ lb bench, 90 seconds rest for hypertrophy is not adequate. For me anyways.

For me, lifting heavy sets and low reps, I recover between sets even quicker because of the lack of getting a full pump.


"rule of thumb" can change on a whim if you know your body well.

 

[1999TL]

I think the one thing I shouldn't be lacking in is nutrition. I eat 6 meals a day. fruits, veggies, tons of protein, milk, multivitamins....I'm working on the sleeping early part. Lately I've been getting 8 hours but now I need to adjust my schedule b/c I need to get up by 6:30 from now on.

I might be over training. I'll cut training down to 4 days a week and go from there. Actually, I skipped squats last week b/c I just wasn't up for it. Now, I just got back from the gym and my squats were more explosive, even though I added weight.

I'm actually narrowing it down to not enough cardio or over training. Thanks for the advice. I'll research some more and report back.

 

[1999TL]

meh, there's a lot more to it than that. If you are pressing 120+lb dumbbells and 300+ lb bench, 90 seconds rest for hypertrophy is not adequate. For me anyways.

For me, lifting heavy sets and low reps, I recover between sets even quicker because of the lack of getting a full pump.


"rule of thumb" can change on a whim if you know your body well.

I'm working on it. I'm shifting to strength training the next couple of weeks.

 

[ceo]

I think the one thing I shouldn't be lacking in is nutrition. I eat 6 meals a day. fruits, veggies, tons of protein, milk, multivitamins...

how much is "tons"? You getting in at least 2 grams per lb. of bodyweight? If not then eat more protein.

 

[dabuffguy]

how much is "tons"? You getting in at least 2 grams per lb. of bodyweight? If not then eat more protein.

2 grams per bodyweight is plenty sufficient. a 200 pound guy taking in 400 grams of protein is probably excessive. 400 grams = almost 1 pound. 1 pound of protein is not needed daily to build maximum lean mass.

 

[Varga]

I experienced that when I first started working out and a few years after from.....overtraining!!! Cardio will do nothing for you, prob is going to make the problem worse.

No matter what you do once you overtrain you are done. That also explains the lack of enthusiasm in the gym too. Food may or may not be a problem. It could...but if you eat 6 meals a day with protein for 4 of the 6 that's fine. It's the calories that matter though..not how many times you eat. YOu can eat 6x a day for 1800calories
Sleep is also a problem in some cases. Do you sleep soundly or wake up and have a hard time falling asleep?
My bet is on overtrainig. You mentioned something about cutting back to 4 days a week in the gym....!!!! How many days do you curently go to the gym?

 

[Jocques Straap]

How many days per week are you working out?
How long do you spend in the gym?
Are you still achieving a pump?
Are you feeling a strong burning sensation as you finish your set, even though you're only doing a few reps?

 

[1999TL]

I spend a An hour max in the gym. I was going 5 days a week during the Christmas break. Hell, one week I might have gotten bored and went 6 days. Not quite sure. Today, I started training for strength, Using about 3 minutes rest. I was repping with 225 for 6 times. I didn't think I was capable of that b/c I've only been using dumb bells...moving up to 75's with a minute rest. If I rested for 3 mins I could do 90's. the 3 minutes rest helped out a lot today. I didn't have the same tired effect today. with one minute rest, it seems that the next set is always coming up.

You guys might be right. I might have been over training. This past month I was working out by myself. I was using dumb bells and aiming for 1 minute rest and 10 reps. I could never get to 10 reps on the sets. Looking back, I think I was forcing all my might on almost every set. Pretty much feeling spent on every last rep of every set. I'm starting to think it might have been over training because even though I was sleeping 8 hours, I had a hard time getting up. That could be b/c I was sleeping at about 3 am to 4 am. Some days I'd wake up at 11, feel so tired, then go back to sleep until 12 or 1. Sign of over training?

I felt good today using 3 mins of rest though. I'm pumped too. I've literally never even tried to put up 225 since I've been using DB's for a couple of months. Last time I did Bench I was repping 185. I thought 225 would be my one rep max, but my parter said I can push the 225 by the way I was lifting 185. So, I tried it. whuddathunkit...

 

[1999TL]

I experienced that when I first started working out and a few years after from.....overtraining!!! Cardio will do nothing for you, prob is going to make the problem worse.

No matter what you do once you overtrain you are done. That also explains the lack of enthusiasm in the gym too. Food may or may not be a problem. It could...but if you eat 6 meals a day with protein for 4 of the 6 that's fine. It's the calories that matter though..not how many times you eat. YOu can eat 6x a day for 1800calories
Sleep is also a problem in some cases. Do you sleep soundly or wake up and have a hard time falling asleep?
My bet is on overtrainig. You mentioned something about cutting back to 4 days a week in the gym....!!!! How many days do you curently go to the gym?

How long do you rest if you think it's over training? I felt good today? should i rest? I REALLY appreciate everybody's responses. Thanks again, fellas.

 

[ceo]

2 grams per bodyweight is plenty sufficient. a 200 pound guy taking in 400 grams of protein is probably excessive. 400 grams = almost 1 pound. 1 pound of protein is not needed daily to build maximum lean mass.

Some people respond well off less, some don't. Some people barely work out and are 250 lbs. lean. Some of the biggest guys I know are taking in at least 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

You don't have to do it yourself, but you shouldn't speak in absolutes. If you're getting huge off 1 gram protein/lb. BW, by all means keep it up and I'll cheer you on from the stands in Vegas big guy.

I still stand by what I said and disagree with you as far as probably 90% of the population is concerned.

 

[1999TL]

I guess I'll also add that for the past couple of weeks, I've been using Waxy Maize starch. I bring my shaker cup into the gym and I drink it immediately after my workout. Then, once I get home, I drink a protein shake. An hour later, I eat a big meal. 3 hours later I drink a pm shake and go to bed. Wake up, eat oatmeal, 5-6 whole eggs and a banana with a glass of milk. Then, I take my multi vitamin, fish oil, osteo bi flex generic. Then my various meals during the day.

I really came to post that the waxy maize has to be working. I've been making solid gains. I'd have to owe my recent gains to it b/c I thought I had hit a plateau b4. Well, it seemed that way. 8and20 is the one who got me to order the waxy maize too b/c he said he was making great gains now that his diet was tweaked...RIP bro.

*edit. I'm sure I'm getting at least 1.5x grams of protein. Probably 2x sounds about right. I'm taking in about 4k calories. I weigh 180-182.

 

[Varga]

How long do you rest if you think it's over training? I felt good today? should i rest? I REALLY appreciate everybody's responses. Thanks again, fellas.

Overtraining can be local or total. Total obviously is a total body fatigue...local can be just specific muscle groups. I usually if my recovery lacks I take a few days off or maybe a week. When I come back I try a different routine
Sleeping is the tell tell sign to me. I sleep 8 hours then I'm good....now you said that sometimes you wake up and go right back to sleep again. That tells me that you body is tired. Also working out 5 days a week to gain is a bit more than you body can handle....very rare that I see ppl that can handle a bulking routine lifting 5 days a week....I can't! For me 4 days is all I do

 

[1999TL]

Overtraining can be local or total. Total obviously is a total body fatigue...local can be just specific muscle groups. I usually if my recovery lacks I take a few days off or maybe a week. When I come back I try a different routine
Sleeping is the tell tell sign to me. I sleep 8 hours then I'm good....now you said that sometimes you wake up and go right back to sleep again. That tells me that you body is tired. Also working out 5 days a week to gain is a bit more than you body can handle....very rare that I see ppl that can handle a bulking routine lifting 5 days a week....I can't! For me 4 days is all I do

Thanks Varga. I'm not having that sleeping problem at all anymore. I think I was just training balls to the wall trying to do that 1 minute rest. I took today off. I'll stick with the M-t/wed off/ Th-friday routine. Weekends off.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Varga]

Thanks Varga. I'm not having that sleeping problem at all anymore. I think I was just training balls to the wall trying to do that 1 minute rest. I took today off. I'll stick with the M-t/wed off/ Th-friday routine. Weekends off.

Thanks for your help.

cool man, 4 days is good with plenty of rest in between
BTW, the waxy Maize is good stuff!

 

[cobracock1979]

Lactic acid? Try stretching the recruited muscle between sets - this will work

 

[1999TL]

Lactic acid? Try stretching the recruited muscle between sets - this will work

I'm not feeling the burn b4 I go to the next set. I believe I'm failing at the muscular level. I'm pretty sure Creatine will help; I Just dont want to take it right now.

 

[cobracock1979]

I would take waxy maize per and post work out, that will glycogenate ur muscles like nothing else

 

[1999TL]

I was actually thinking about Cobra. I might try that today since I'm deadlifting today.

 

[Jocques Straap]

There is creatine in No xplode.


Someone with an more advanced level of biochem, feel free to correct me here if any of this is incorrect.

Your muscles have energy stored as ATP, glycogen, and creatine phosphate. ATP is quick, fast energy and usually used during the first 1-10 seconds of exercise. Glycogen is used in combination with oxygen, and typically what will happen during exercise, is your blood vessels will no longer be able to carry enough oxygen to the muscle cell, fast enough to keep up with the energy demands. With fairly intense exercise, Glycogen or Aerobic respiration will only last 10-30 seconds. Next, you will be working anaerobically. This is when Creatine phosphate is used to create energy used for muscle contraction. The byproduct of creatine phosphate is lactic acid. You can very clearly identify the onset of anaerobic respiration by the sensation of "burning" due to the lactic acid byproduct created.

Since you aren't feeling the burn, you aren't working anaerobically. This means you are failing even before your stored Creatine Phosphate is even called into use.

I'm do however feel that more creatine may help. It's safe, not going to hurt you and may help. Why not give it a shot.

The more I think about this thread, the more I feel like you need to address your macro nutrients more. It doesn't sound like you are eating enough. If your goals are to gain weight. You might as well up the cals now, you're going to in the future anyways, so why not now?

Overtraining could also be an option, you could be failing at the neurological level. Typically overtraining is associated with a loss of desire to exercise, and feeling tired all the time. Do you feel like this? As long as you are positive and motivated to workout, do it.

In any event, if you aren't getting all your reps, you should drop the weight, so that you can get the required reps. There should be no shame in reducing the weight and focusing on perfect form.

goodluck.

 

[1999TL]

Here is my split. I just read somebody's else's split and the recommendations are pretty different from my routine. This is my routine, natural. I warm up on the bike and watch tv for 5-10 mins before every workout.

Monday- Legs
Squat
Warmup 10X135
6-10 185
6-10 225
6-10 245
4-8 275

Number of reps might change if I want to move up in weight(Less reps of the weight b4 to try to and move up for next set)
Leg press or Quad extensions- 4 sets
Hamstring curl 4 sets
Stiff legged dead 4 sets
calves-3-6 sets, depending if I plan to hit them twice in the week or just once that week

Tuesday Chest/tris
Warmup 115 ( is this too low? It was actually what was left from the other guy so I did it.)
185X8
225X6
225X5
205X6
This last workout was different b/c I went back to the bar from DB's.

4x incline
3-4x flys
Skull crushers
some other tricep workout
Wednesday- off
Thursday- Back
Warmup 135X8
225X8
275X6
295X4-6
315X3-4
Sometimes I might end with another set going down to 275 or 295

Wide Grip pull ups, 4 sets
Cable row 4 sets
Lat pull downs
Curls, DB or bar, what kind of exercises vary.

Friday- Shoulders & tris
4x Standing military press
4x Side raises db
4x front raise db
4x rear delt on machine
Cable tricep extension
Abs if I ever feel like it.

Weekends are off.

 

[cobracock1979]

There is creatine in No xplode.


Someone with an more advanced level of biochem, feel free to correct me here if any of this is incorrect.

Your muscles have energy stored as ATP, glycogen, and creatine phosphate. ATP is quick, fast energy and usually used during the first 1-10 seconds of exercise. Glycogen is used in combination with oxygen, and typically what will happen during exercise, is your blood vessels will no longer be able to carry enough oxygen to the muscle cell, fast enough to keep up with the energy demands. With fairly intense exercise, Glycogen or Aerobic respiration will only last 10-30 seconds. Next, you will be working anaerobically. This is when Creatine phosphate is used to create energy used for muscle contraction. The byproduct of creatine phosphate is lactic acid. You can very clearly identify the onset of anaerobic respiration by the sensation of "burning" due to the lactic acid byproduct created.

Since you aren't feeling the burn, you aren't working anaerobically. This means you are failing even before your stored Creatine Phosphate is even called into use.

I'm do however feel that more creatine may help. It's safe, not going to hurt you and may help. Why not give it a shot.

The more I think about this thread, the more I feel like you need to address your macro nutrients more. It doesn't sound like you are eating enough. If your goals are to gain weight. You might as well up the cals now, you're going to in the future anyways, so why not now?

Overtraining could also be an option, you could be failing at the neurological level. Typically overtraining is associated with a loss of desire to exercise, and feeling tired all the time. Do you feel like this? As long as you are positive and motivated to workout, do it.

In any event, if you aren't getting all your reps, you should drop the weight, so that you can get the required reps. There should be no shame in reducing the weight and focusing on perfect form.

goodluck.

Great post

 

[1999TL]

I appreciate your help, jocques. I just can't see it being a macronutrient deficit though. I just can't. It seems like all I do is eat. I really appreciate that you're trying to help, so please don't take it as if I can't take good, constructive advice. It's just that I've been debating when I should cut down lately b/c I feel my stomach is gaining fat. I've gained a good 10 lbs in the last 6 weeks. I keep going up in weight so...

I even try to intake 1k calories b4 my workout b/c my muscles were giving out. I have some buddies that train and they do 1.5 to 2 hour work outs. I tell them there is no way I can last that long. I start to get hungry at the end of my work out(might be why the waxy maize is working, b/c I'm bringing it to the gym also).

 

[Varga]

one more crazy thing to think about is to look at your muscle as not being very mature.....It's almost like a baby learning to walk...at first the walking process is very unstable and they fall n stuff.
Your muscle maybe not have reached that point of maturation yet....Do you get muscle cramps?

 

[1999TL]

no muscle cramps when I'm working out.

However, this morning when I was walking a couple of blocks to class in the morning when it was very cold, the outside of my shins started to burn. I guess these are shin splints? Burns like a mofo. I also had the outside of my shins(lateral) burn when I was running full court bball about 2 weeks ago.

*Just did some reading on wikipedia. My calves are sore and I guess they're getting stronger from training. I guess the problem is that my calves are over powering the front muscles. I need to run? I had the shin splints from just walking fast this morning. GEEEZ.

 

[ceo]

The more I think about this thread, the more I feel like you need to address your macro nutrients more. It doesn't sound like you are eating enough.

Overtraining could also be an option, you could be failing at the neurological level.

Just what I said. But of course that can't be the case now can it?! It must be something else that has sxs just like this. Yes, must be.


Thanks 99TL for posting your training. Now how about a typical week's eating with breakdown of macros?

 

[1999TL]

Maybe I should take pictures, CEO. I actually eat at home and I dont know the exact Calories. i shoot for 40/40/20 carb/Protein/fat ration. That's probably a flaw of mine, but I'm bulking I just eat a large meal every 3 hours, regardless if I'm hungry or not.

I'll try to post pictures of every meal I eat this weekend. I just try to eat a big bowl or plate fool of everything. My guess is I'm eating about 4k calories.

 

[ceo]

Maybe I should take pictures, CEO. I actually eat at home and I dont know the exact Calories. i shoot for 40/40/20 carb/Protein/fat ration. That's probably a flaw of mine, but I'm bulking I just eat a large meal every 3 hours, regardless if I'm hungry or not.

I'll try to post pictures of every meal I eat this weekend. I just try to eat a big bowl or plate fool of everything. My guess is I'm eating about 4k calories.

There are websites you can go to where you can find the nutritional values for every kind of food. No need for pictures. I wouldn't be able to tell how many ounces of steak you were going to eat from just a picture anyway. Nor do I care. You're the one having the issue...I'm the one trying to help you discover the problem.

You're guessing at how many calories and grams of pro/carb/fat you're taking in each day. My guess is you're probably guessing high.

I know for me if rest is lacking, I need to make up for it with food...not just an extra 500 calorie snack either. When you've been at this for a while and become a student of it, you discover things. If you're not willing to become a student you will limit your gains (unless you're genetically elite). Nutrition is about 70% of this game, I'd say. And while there are general "rules" it really becomes very individualized.

It's on you brother.

 

[theoldone]

Id imagine if you are going into the sets while still tired it is just too little rest and maybe not enough fuel pre workout. If you are ready to go, not tired but can only get 4-5 reps its either muscular endurance or too heavy weight...

yeah eat before working out...i notice a pretty big difference if i dont eat 1st.

and i rest for a minimum of 2 min between sets....i only do 6 heavy reps though.