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Moral Delimma

Moral Dilemma

  • Tell the Truth

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Lie

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Tell her what a no good bitch her daughter is

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12

Buddy_Christ

New member
ok, here's the situation. i'm getting ready to move my grandmother from a nursing home into an assisted living facility. she'll be 84 this year. she had a stroke a year and a half ago that hurt her memory. she's still highly functional, but can't care for herself fully. i can tell her something and she'll pretty much forget it in 10 minutes. some things she'll remember, but not all. it's rough.

in order to put her into assisted living, i'm going to have to sell her house. she has some income, but it's not enough to fully cover the expenses she'll incur. by selling the house, she'll have enough money between her income and assets to provide for her long term care for quite a few years. so that's going to work out nicely.

i found a good assisted living home for her. the place is nice, the price is actually cheap. the level and quality of care is excellent, and unlike a lot of places, there's no "hidden costs," where they quote you one price per month, then they give you a huge list of things that are "extras." the reason this place is able to keep their price low is they are a reasonably large facility (i think max capacity is 160 residents), and they've been operating for almost 20 years. most other places i've looked into have only been operating for 10 years or less, so i would imagine their prices are higher because they're still paying for the cost of the facility (just my guess).

so all this is good. things are falling into line. i'm going to have to get some realitors into the house, get it appraised, and get it on the market. i'm considering a public auction to empty the place out. that's probably my easiest solution. yeah, i'll have to pay a cut of it to the company that runs the auction, but that's going to be a hell of a lot easier than trying a yard sale (and guessing what i can get for what), or listing things in the paper. so these are all the positives.

now, here's the problem. she wants to go home. this is the hardest part of it all. she can't go home. we can't afford to get her the home care she needs in order for her to be home. plus she needs the environment that an assisted living home can provide for her, mainly the mental and social stimulation. she's made a complete 180 since she's been in the nursing home, because she's got people around her and activities she can be involved in. this has helped her greatly. she's happier now than she has been since my grandfather passed away 7 years ago.

so with the poll......

Tell the Truth - that i sold her home and placed her in assisted living because it's unsafe for her to be home alone. the downside to this is she'll probably actually remember this one, and she'll resent me for it. if i tried to change my story with her, she might remember it and resent me even more.

Lie - tell her that her doctor doesn't want to send her home yet, that she still needs some further care and evaluation. this i could pull off with her. yes, it's lying, and while she'd have a clue, she wouldn't figure it out fully, and i'm her "baby," i can do no wrong. she wouldn't accuse me of lying to her. this wouldn't be a 100% lie though. if i let her go home, her case would get sent back to her county. they'd know that the recommendations are for assisted living OR practically 24/7 home care. can't afford the home care, and assisted living would be a lot better for her anyway. so i guess it wouldn't be a lie, just a partial non-truth.

Tell her why her house HAD to be sold - yeah, this is the worst part. her own daughter fucked her over big time (oh yeah, and NEVER calls her anymore, NEVER goes to see her...she's pretty much waiting for her to die so she can cash in). 5 years ago, my grandmother had a small mortgage payment...$150/month. $14K was owed on the house. my grandfather needed to pull a small loan, so he kept it very reasonable and low payments. he was good with this stuff. my "mother" decided she needed money for her wedding to the asshole, so she, as power of attorney, set up a new mortgage on the house. she turned around and mortgaged it for $40K for 20 years. she walked my grandmother into the bank, told her it was just some simple paperwork, nothing to be worried about (my grandmother knew NOTHING about finances, and this was her daughter, she believed her 100%), and she signed the papers, letting that bitch walk away with $25K. on top of that, the bitch also set up a home equity line of credit for $20K. that got turned over to collections because it wasn't getting paid. she walked away with $45K and totally fucked over my grandmother. it can't be paid back with what she's bringing in and how bills have racked up. i HAVE to sell her house to cover these debts. getting a lawyer and going after that no good bitch is easier said than done. that's something i need to work on eventually, but i have other issues to take care of first that are a lot more important.

so what do i do? this is a tough call and it's eating me up.
 
Tough situation, but I don't see the harm in lieing to her. Sadly, it doesn't sound like she'll be around a lot longer and you might as well keep her life as stress-free as possible. Chances are she'll be happier thinking it was doctors orders.

good luck man
 
Does your "mother" still hold power of attorney on your grandmother?

That is a tough call but I would have to tell her the whole story. As difficult as it will be, she needs to at least be informed as to the reasons why she is in this mess.

If you do sell her house, who has the power to sign all of the paperwork involved in it? If your mother does, then there is going to be a problem with paying those bills off if it is not being foreclosed on. More than likely if your mother holds the power then she might not pay those bills off. Then, your grandmother is going to be in a real mess.

I would get an attorney to make sure everything is inline to pay off those loans and settle any bad debts she might have incurred because of your mother. It sounds like a real mess but I hope everything works out.
 
Same thing happened to my grandma after a car accident.
Stroke/ loss of metal ability.
You get my respect crak6000!
I only hope someone will take care of us as nicely..yeah right.
Anyhooo. Tell her option #3. Think of your grandma as a child,
but with a very short life span. Tell her just enough, and sugar
coat it to the best of your abilty.
That "180" is not going to last. My grandma had days where she's
back to normal, the next she almost burns the house down three
times. At her current place, she's safe. She may want some of
her freeedoms back, but she won't be able to if she falls down
stairs, or puts cleaner in her food (which my grandma did).
You have to be the bearer of bad tidings, but by placing your
"mother" as the scapegoat (cause she fucking is!!), it'll steer
any of your grandma's animosity about her house getting sold,
to your "mother", lowering the chances of resentment towards you,
and you both can enjoy your time together...I hope.
You got alot on your shoulders man. Best of luck.
 
HumorME - we signed a power of attorney not too long ago. SS office, the bank, the home she's currently in, and the pension company all know who has the current power of attorney and who is NOT allowed to do anything. so legally, i'm in the right. i know she knows about the change in power of attorney, as my bitch sister found out and i know it got back to the bitch. that hasn't even encouraged her to go visit her own mother, even if it was just to sign another power of attorney so she could get back in control.

even if she was still in charge, she'd HAVE to pay the bills off, even if my grandmother passed on. say the house is sold, there's an $80K profit, and my grandmother dies 2 months later. if the bitch tried to take the money and run, it would eventually be found out how much money my grandmother had willed to her (sole beneficiary), and legally (as far as i know) any money the deceased leaves to you in their will is AFTER all their debts have been settled. you can't hide the sale and profit from a house. just too much money.

ulcasterdropout - sorry to hear about your grandmother.

my grandmother is actually doing pretty damn good to be honest with you. the 180 i was more referring to was her general mood and attitude. functionally, we're suprised yet we're not suprised that she lasted as long as she did taking care of herself. her biggest problem was she wasn't taking her medications. because of that, her blood pressure was through the roof most of the time, causing some disorientation and memory loss. in the course of 3 days in the hospital, they had her blood pressure 100% under control. when she was checked in back in Feburary, it was 220/115 if i remember correctly. as long as she's taking her medications, she's up and functioning, and she'll be the one to take care of others, as that's just how she is.

being realistic, i can see her living another 5-6 years problem free. she's actually pretty healthy at the moment. but in another 5-6 years, things such as her high blood pressure, high chlosterol, and diabetes, along with the stroke...i have a feeling that by then, all of those things will begin to take a toll on her.


bump this up for the morning/afternoon crew. this is an anyonomyous poll (i can't spell). no one is going to see that big tough macho guy thinks that telling the truth is the best answer.
 
Sell the house and tell her it burned down or something like that.
 
maybe a little bit of all three options you proposed.....let her know that living at home is not an option as much as you wish it was, but make her health and well being the reason why using the doctor's orders as a crutch. My family went through a similar situation with my grandmother and it is heartwrenching....you wonder if you should treat them as a child and sugarcoat everything or tell the truth because you know deep down it is still your grandmother underneath it all. I know i'm not being much help, but I would say such a delicate and important situation requires being delicate with your grandmother, meaning whatever you do, make sure she understands that every thing you are doing is for her health and well-being.....she WILL see this, and it sounds like she loves you tons already, that she is never going to forget.
 
"This above all, to thine own self be true.."

Tell her the truth about the house, etc.. It may not be the easiest way, but you know it's the right thing to do.

As far as telling her why, I would leave that out. That would be your "mother's" job to tell her the truth about that. Don't tattle, give your "mother" the chance to own up to her actions, she might feel the need to do that one day.
 
I used to work in a personal care home. Based on my experience here's my advice.


If she really doesnt remember anything more than ten minutes she may have dementia or Alzheimer's. In that case it is better to lie. It's always better to lie.
Tell her a sweet lie and make her happy. This was probably one of the hardest things for families to accept. They continually tried to "do the right thing" and tell the resident everything and it never did any good but to seriously upset the person.

I'd ask her physican(s) about her cognitive abilities and base your decision to disclose information on that.
 
Tell her the truth......we had to do that with my grand-maw when her Alzhemisers got progressively worse
 
Tell her what a no-good bitch her daughter is. She needs to know the truth, and the blame has fall on the one who deserves it.
 
Fill her assisted living apartment with lots of her old furniture and pictures. It will make her losing the house a lot easier if she see's she's still surrounded by all the stuff she's called home for years.
 
crak, sell the house and put her in the home, it will pay for it, and keep the daughter from getting at LEAST some of the money.......sad story,
but dont tell her that her daughters a butthead, just let her think that she loves her and misses her and wants to be there but cant. At least let her think she is, even tho u are the one looking out for her.
I dont like my grandmother because she put my grandfather in a nursing home 2 weeks before he died because quote"her kids were too tired to take care of her" he was dying of terminal cancer. He built the house with his own hands and he deserved to die there, not in a freaking nursing home.
 
john - this place, they showed us quite a few rooms that were really personalized. they looked AWESOME. even the shared rooms, absolutely awesome what families have done for these people. can't fit too much in there though. i'll have to leave the home's bed in there for her, but i'll bring her own dresser, if she wants TV i'll get her one and get cable in there, get her a phone line (those are the only 2 extras, cable and phone), and fit in whatever else i can for her. won't be much, but i'm pretty sure i can get her recliner in there for her and put some plants in the windowsill.

Ender - wish you could vote for both. looks like i'm the only one that voted to lie to her. i'm going to talk the whole thing over with the staff there and get their recommendation as well. these people have seen hundreds of cases and probably heard every horror story you could imagine. i've talked to social workers in the past few months that have said "if you want to lie, we'll help, consider it a white lie and you're only doing it to protect her from more heartache."

damn i hate this shit. tomorrow afternoon i'm going to try to get down there (2 hour drive) and start filling out paperwork to get her in there. i want her in there ASAP.

then get a realator into the house.

then set up a public auction.

i'm learning real estate the hard way...by selling a house that isn't even mine. i havn't even bought my first house yet, so you can imagine how clueless i am. Century 21 or REMAX?
 
Don't lie. 'Cause you'll know and she'll know. Don't ask me how. They always know. And then it will be just difficult...
 
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