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milos adressing the use of insulin

serge

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A CANDID INTERVIEW WITH A TOP I.F.B.B. COMPETITOR



INTERVIEWS ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND CAN GO ONE OF 2 WAYS. THEY ARE EITHER COMPLETELY FUCKING BORING WHICH IS THE KIND YOU READ IN THE MAGAZINES.....OR THEY ARE COMPLETELY FABRICATED, LIKE THE KIND YOU SEE ON OTHER BODYBUILDING WEBSITES. THIS INTERVIEW REPRESENTS NEITHER. THE NAME OF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN KEPT ANONYMOUS DUE TO CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS. WITH THAT BEING SAID, WHAT IS TO FOLLOW IS A MOST INFORMATIVE AND EDUCATIONAL INTERVIEW ON ONE PARTICULAR TOPIC:

TREVOR; WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF THE 20-30LB BODYWEIGHT JUMPS FROM 1994-PRESENT. I MEAN LETS FACE IT, NASSER EL SONBATY WAS AN AVERAGE PRO UNTIL 1995 AND RONNIE COLEMAN WAS A 2ND OR 3RD TIER ATHLETE UP UNTIL 1997, JEAN PIERRE FUX GAINED 40 LBS OF TISSUE IN A YEAR AND A HALF, CHRIS CORMIER HAS GONE FROM AVERAGE TO TOP 3, HELL EVEN DORIAN WENT FROM 230LBS TO 260LBS SEEMINGLY OVERNIGHT. ALL OF THESE MEN HAVE HAD LOTS OF EXPERIENCE WITH STEROIDS AND G.H. SO THERE HAD TO BE ANOTHER FACTOR. AT FIRST IT WAS THOUGHT IGF-1 WAS RESPONSIBLE, BUT THIS PROVED TO BE A RATHER INEFFECTIVE COMPOUND.

SO WHAT WAS IT?

THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN ON EVERYONE'S MIND SINCE THE EMERGENCE OF 280-290LB BODYBUILDERS FROM SEEMINGLY OUT OF NO-WHERE. I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE EMERGENCE OF IGF-1, BUT THEN AFTER RESEARCHING SOME THINGS, I FOUND OUT THAT IGF-1 IS A SHIT DRUG AND DOESN'T DO MUCH. (hey this is Trevors opinion not mine-DC) WHAT GIVES?

IFBBPRO: I N S U L I N! THAT'S WHAT GIVES! I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF THESE GUYS FOR A WHILE NOW AND I CAN UNEQUIVOCALLY TELL YOU THAT IT IS THE RESULT OF INSULIN THAT THESE HUGE LEAPS HAVE BEEN MADE.

TREVOR; INSULIN? IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN HOW COME SO MANY PEOPLE CLAIM IT WILL MAKE YOU FAT

IFBBPRO: BECAUSE IT CAN MAKE YOU FAT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND DO NOT USE THE RIGHT TYPE.

TREVOR; CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW TO USE IT SO ONE WOULD NOT GET FAT.

IFBBPRO: ACTUALLY IT'S QUITE SIMPLY. YOU SEE THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF INSULIN L, N, R , AND HUMALOG. THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE ACTING TIMES. L LASTS IN THE SYSTEM FOR AROUND 24HOURS PEAKING SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND TAKES 2 HOURS TO BEGIN TO WORK, N IS MEDIUM IN ITS ACTING TIME LASTING AROUND 12 HOURS AND R IS THE QUICKEST OF THESE THREE, LASTING FOR ABOUT 6 HOURS AND HITTING THE SYSTEM IN ABOUT 30-45 MINUTES. HUMALOG IS NEWER AND ACTUALLY BEGINS WORKING IN 5-15 MINUTES AND LASTS FOR 4 HOURS

ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU CAN USE INSULIN TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. WITH ALL INSULIN YOU NEED TO HAVE GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOOD STREAM SO IT CAN HAVE SOMETHING TO ACT ON AND TRANSPORT IT INTO THE CELLS. THE POPULAR RULE OF THUMB OF 10-15 GRAMS OF GLUCOSE/CARBS PER I.U. OF INSULIN WAS SOMETHING THAT I ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH. PLEASE DON'T THINK I AM BEING ARROGANT, IT'S JUST THAT I WAS DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH ON INSULIN IN THE EARLY 90'S AND IT IS DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY DUE TO THAT RESEARCH THAT INSULIN HAS BECOME A POPULAR TOOL IN THE BODYBUILDERS ARSENAL. MANY PEOPLE HAVE CONTACTED ME ON HOW TO USE INSULIN. NOW WITH INSULIN YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT IT IS AN INDISCRIMINANT CARRIER WHICH IS BOTH GOOD AND BAD. GOOD BECAUSE ALONG WITH THE TRANSPORTING OF GLUCOSE, IT WILL ALSO TRANSPORT AMINO ACIDS INTO THE MUSCLE CELLS. BAD BECAUSE IF THERE IS A LOT OF FAT PRESENT, IT WILL SHOVE THAT INTO CELLS AS WELL AND THIS IS WHY YOU GET FAT FROM INSULIN. IF YOU USE A LONG ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOU EAT A CARB AND PROTEIN MEAL EVERY 2 HOURS TO INSURE THAT WHEN IT PEAKS, YOU HAVE A NUTRIENT POOL AVAILABLE FOR IT TO WORK ON. IF YOU TOOK A SHOT OF INSULIN IN THE MORNING AND IT WAS LONG ACTING, IF YOU EAT A PIZZA AT 8:00PM, THE FAT WILL GET TRANSPORTED INTO THE CELLS AND YOU WILL GET FAT. THE WAY AROUND THIS IS TO 1. KEEP DIETARY FAT TO A MINIMUM ALL THE TIME OR 2. USE A FASTER ACTING INSULIN. FOR ME--EVEN THOUGH I ALWAYS EAT LOW AMOUNTS OF FAT PER DAY--THE ANSWER SHOULD BE 2.

THE REASON FOR THIS LIES IN THE FACT THAT YOU CAN CONTROL IT MUCH BETTER IF YOU KNOW THAT IT IS HITTING IN 15-20MINUTES AND WILL BE OUT OF THE SYSTEM IN 4 HOURS OR LESS. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OF PEOPLE FAINTING OR GOING INTO COMAS BECAUSE OF INSULIN HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH GLUCOSE PRESENT IN THE BLOODSTREAM WHEN THE INSULIN PEAKED. WHEN YOU USE A LONG ACTING INSULIN THAT PEAKS AT VARIOUS TIMES OVER A 24HOUR PERIOD, YOU RUN A MUCH GREATER RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH GLUCOSE PRESENT BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE APT TO SKIP A MEAL OR BE DRIVING IN YOUR CAR WHEN IT HITS...I LIKE THE HUMALOG THE BEST AND WOULD TELL EVERYONE TO USE IT SOLELY OR IF THEY CANNOT GET IT, USE THE R. DO NOT USE THE N!

TREVOR; DOES IT MATTER WHAT TYPES OF CARBS YOU EAT WHEN YOU USE INSULIN?

IFBBPRO: YES! I AM A FIRM BELIEVER THAT YOU SHOULD USE PRIMARILY SIMPLE CARBS.

TREVOR; SIMPLE CARBS?

IFBBPRO: YES. LOOK AT THE END OF THE DAY THE BODY BREAKS DOWN COMPLEX CARBS INTO GLUCOSE AND IT IS GLUCOSE THAT IS TRANSPORTED INTO THE CELLS. WHEN YOU ARE USING A RAPID ACTING INSULIN IT IS IMPORTANT TO MINIMIZE THE TIME IT TAKES THE BODY TO CONVERT CARBS TO SIMPLE SUGARS. WHY CREATE ANOTHER STEP IN THE PROCESS? IT ONLY TAKES MORE TIME AND YOU RUN THE RISK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF THE COMPLEX CARBS BROKEN DOWN INTO GLUCOSE IN TIME WHEN THE INSULIN HITS. FOR THIS REASON I SUGGEST THE USE OF DEXTROSE.

TREVOR; SO WHAT IS THE REGIME YOU WOULD RECOMMEND?

IFBBPRO: WELL I SUGGEST THAT FOR OPTIMAL RESULTS, YOU USE HUMALOG AT 10-15IU'S IMMEDIATELY AFTER TRAINING BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YOU BODY IS MOST DEPLETED OF GLYCOGEN STORES AND IS PRIMED TO OVERCOMPENSATE FOR THE INFLUX OF NUTRIENTS. NOW HUMALOG HITS IN 5-15MINUTES SO YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY INGEST 10 GRAMS OF SIMPLE CARBS PER EVERY I.U. OF INSULIN YOU USE (IN THIS CASE BETWEEN 100-150 GRAMS) I WOULD ALSO TAKE IN ADDITIONAL NUTRIENTS THAT HELP CONTRIBUTE TO MUSCLE GROWTH SUCH AS AMINO ACIDS OR 50 GRAMS OF WHEY ISOLATE. I WOULD ALSO HAVE 5 GRAMS OF CREATINE AT THIS TIME TO AID IN CELL VOLUMIZING.

THE BEST CASE SCENARIO WOULD BE TO DO THIS TWICE AND DAY AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THIS TWICE A DAY IS IF YOU TRAIN TWICE A DAY (THE MORE YOU DEPLETE YOUR GLYCOGEN STORES, THE MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE TO USE INSULIN TO OVERCOMPENSATE WITH NUTRIENTS)

TREVOR; WOULD YOU USE INSULIN DURING YOUR CONTEST PREP?

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY I WOULD NOT PREPARE WITHOUT IT. YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU HAVE TO USE IT WHEN YOU CAN IN TERMS OF HIGH CARB AND LOW CARB DAYS WHEN YOU ARE DIETING.

TREVOR; SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT INSULIN ALONE IS WHAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 20-30LB. JUMP IN LEAN BODY MASS IN ALL THE TOP GUYS?

IFBBPRO: ABSOLUTELY. I GUARANTEE THAT IF A BODYBUILDER IS STAGNANT AND HAS NOT USED INSULIN YET OR USED IT CORRECTLY, HE CAN PUT 20-30LBS OF MUSCLE ON. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. I AM SO SURE OF IT THAT I WOULD BET MY LIFE ON IT. I AM THAT POSITIVE.

TREVOR; ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT INSULIN WE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE WE MOVE ON?

IFBBPRO: YES. WHEN YOU USE IT, YOU WILL FIND THAT YOUR MUSCLES FILL OUT SO MUCH THAT YOU CANNOT USE IT EVERY DAY. I FIND THAT WITH MYSELF I CAN USE IF FOR 2-3 DAYS AND THEN OFF FOR 1-2 DAYS. EVERYONE VARIES, BUT THERE IS A POINT WHEN YOU ARE SO SUPERSATURATED THAT YOU CANNOT GET ANY FULLER. ALSO I WOULD NOT GO OVER 40 I.U.'S OF INSULIN PER DAY DIVIDED INTO 2 20IU SHOTS. JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND
 
That sounds too easy. why does everyone say insulin is so hard to use? Should a first time user start lower than 10 iu's per inject?
 
Bulldog_10 said:
That sounds too easy. why does everyone say insulin is so hard to use? Should a first time user start lower than 10 iu's per inject?

who is everybody???

slin is very simple to use, get your carbs in and you wont die

limit your fat intake and you wont gain much fat
 
serge said:


who is everybody???

slin is very simple to use, get your carbs in and you wont die

limit your fat intake and you wont gain much fat

It's just that I've heard from "everybody" that only experienced bodybuilders should mess with slin. ANd it's not for the beginner. Is this just because there is a chance of going hypo?
 
A guy at my gym just died from it. Goes to show what happens when you don't research.:(
 
Golfer18 said:
A guy at my gym just died from it. Goes to show what happens when you don't research.:(

That sucks :bawling: That's DEFENITELY the number one reason people need to research shit like that (insulin, dnp, etc...) before they hurt themselves or worse kill themselves..

YUM
 
Willyumyum said:


That sucks :bawling: That's DEFENITELY the number one reason people need to research shit like that (insulin, dnp, etc...) before they hurt themselves or worse kill themselves..

YUM

That's why i said it sounds to easy. If ALL you have to do is take in 10g of simple carbs per iu...then how is it dangerous? There has to be more than ONE thing you have to do while using insulin.
 
Yeah, it sounds easy, and SHOULD be.. But there are those retards who are like "oh, this'll make me big..." they go home, shoot 100 iu and drink a whole lot of protein shakes or whatever, and don't know that they shouldn't be shooting 100 iu and that, also , they should be taking in carbs... (extreme example)... It's kinda sad that it's so easily acquired by the average joe....

YUM
 
Willyumyum said:
Yeah, it sounds easy, and SHOULD be.. But there are those retards who are like "oh, this'll make me big... they go home, shoot 100 iu and drink a whole lot of protein shakes or whatever, and don't know that they shouldn't be shooting 100 iu and thattt, also , they should be taking in carbs... (extreme example)... It's kinda sad that it's so easily acquired by the average joe....

YUM

I guess that's true. Some people think you want to get protein into the muscles after a workout, and don't think about glucose. So if it's THAT easy, maybe I'll think of trying it out with my next cycle!
 
Bulldog_10 said:


It's just that I've heard from "everybody" that only experienced bodybuilders should mess with slin. ANd it's not for the beginner. Is this just because there is a chance of going hypo?

if you follow the rules of slin use, there is no chance of going hypo

slin use is not rocket science, the only people who run into trouble are the once that dont care to make sure they take in enouph carbs (dextrose or maltodextrin being the best choices, folowed by table sugar)
 
The Architect said:
Hey Serge nice post! I was wondering if most would agree about the simple carb idea.

its a rule, you have to take in simple carbs as they will saturate you with glucose the fastest, complex carbs will have to be broken down into simple sugars before they can be used and that may not be fast enouph, hence one will run a chance of going hypo
 
Check out Acneman's Insulin FAQ...

It will explain all.

p.s. Thanks Acneman!
Wouldn't have started slin with out your great FAQ.
 
Wouldnt CELL-TECH work the same??? LOL

Im guessing one would have to be on roids also?

Im entering my First Natural Contest and thought maybe Insulin would help. Take it 3 days per week only when I train...
 
I am not an experienced slin user by any means, but I have started using it as of about 6 weeks ago. I do 10iu in the morning and 10iu in the evening after workout. I use Humulin R and Humalog (Depending on timing of workout/meals,etc). I believe that at just 10 iu WITH FOOD it is highly unlikely anyone would have any probs. BUT, I think that anyone that uses it should be able to read the package insert, AND UNDERSTAND IT. At 10 iu's I have not noticed ANY immediate side effects such as even the mildest signs of hypoglycemia. I think it is important to understand which form of insulin you have and how to schedule your eating around the timing of the release of the insulin. The biggest danger I see is an experienced user becoming careless, not a first time user going hypoglycemic. Every morning I get up and pull my insulin and HGH out of the fridge and load em up. If, for instance, I was still half ass asleep and fucked up and loaded of 50 units of insulin and 10 units of growth, I would probably be fucked. That is the biggest danger I see. But again, I am NOT an experienced user and anyone thinking of using insulin should do their research. There is a lot of experience on this board to learn from.
 
So how long can you use insulin for? I'm assuming you shouldn't use it for long long periods of time or it could fuck with your insulin sensitivity. I'm gonna go take a look at acneman's FAQ, it's probably in there...
 
Bulldog_10 said:
So how long can you use insulin for? I'm assuming you shouldn't use it for long long periods of time or it could fuck with your insulin sensitivity. I'm gonna go take a look at acneman's FAQ, it's probably in there...

some like to limit its use to 4 weeks at a time, i think it depends on the cycle itself, if you got GH in there, then run slin for the duration of GH
 
whats up guys

looks like insulin works


serge remeber that gh can cause insulin resistance and you should adjust your dose accordingly

great post
 
I'm trying to figure something out about insulin. Wouldn't it make more sense to eat a medium sized meal or even a large meal an hour or so BEFORE you take your shot, and then eat again right after? It takes more than 30 minutes for your body to break down and digest a meal that you eat. So with more time BEFORE the shot.. wouldn't you have a higher glucose and amino acid concentration in your bloodstream?
 
Dooley said:
I'm trying to figure something out about insulin. Wouldn't it make more sense to eat a medium sized meal or even a large meal an hour or so BEFORE you take your shot, and then eat again right after? It takes more than 30 minutes for your body to break down and digest a meal that you eat. So with more time BEFORE the shot.. wouldn't you have a higher glucose and amino acid concentration in your bloodstream?

I don't know what kind of diet you're on, but if it is similiar to what I and most evreyone I see on here does (6-7 meals a day) I hardly see a chance of ever goinig hypoglycemic. I mean, I practically NEVER do not have some amount of food on my stomach. The only time is really in the morning.

I do remember, though, the first day I did insulin I puked twice about an hour afterwards, once in the morning after 10iu and once at night after workout with 10iu. I still didn't feel any hypoglycemia, just simply sick to my stomach. Although I did start GH for the 1st time that day, so I guess it could have had some influence but probably not. So, I guess another possible danger is someone eating some bad food preventing them from getting any food down. I know it kinda scared me a little. I remember looking in the toilet at my own vomit and wondering what was I doing all this for. But, the next day everything was OK and I continued as planned.
 
Question...

Should insulin be stacked with any type of steroid to achieve it effects. Or Can one do a four week cycle wthout other compounds?
 
serge said:
If you follow the rules of slin use, there is no chance of going hypo. the only people who run into trouble are the once that dont care to make sure they take in enouph carbs (dextrose or maltodextrin being the best choices, folowed by table sugar)
U HAVE TO DO A GOOD RESEARCH ABOUT SLIN BEFORE USING IT. TAKE CARE! :)
 
This isnt a bad post but I would say it is very over simplified. Kinda like saying you know how to cook itialian when your actually only heating up spagehhti O's in the microwave. Insulin sensitvity is a big factor in this one. Doing slin daily and trying to put on lean mass, would be like saying run clen for 2 months straight and u will keep losing weight. I am not debating if slin can make u blow up, but rather with what kind of tissue, After year of messing with ketonic diets "naturally", I have great skepticism, that loading your body with (1iu times 10 - 15 grams of carbs) would have much benefit for lean muscle for more than a week on the diet he prescribes. Maybe a diet very resricted in carbs (5=< a meal) with a shot once after a one workout every third or fourth day naturally, or every other or third day on a heavy stack of juice with the same super recomposition prodedures as stated, gradually working your way up in IU's. This argument is mostly intended for people worried about putting on to much padding, not like the usual ectomorph. Basically flooding the body with slin with a daily diet rich in carbs low in fat is going to drive insulin sensivity way down. THe good thing about slin receptors is they can be upgraded pretty fast, and of course the use of AS will help. So limiting the hormone with low carbs during your days would be smart. The biggest problem with the low carb diets, with moderate amounts of insulin spikes is you would have to be careful of what kind of fats u are taking in due to the posibility of fucking up your lipid profiles pretty quick.
 
What kind of sugar carbs are in 100% fruit juices, such as white grape?

That's what I took my 1st shot with today and I felt no side affects. Approximately 12 ounces of white grape w/ creatine and other supplements, at the time.

I've felt a bit nausious (sort of in the empty stomach kinda way) the past couple of hours and have a date for some japanese food in a bit, as I AM STARVED! :)

Again.. what type of sugar is in fruit juices?
 
ok this was wikked read because i just bought some insulin..but umm..its by twinlabs..haha it should be here in a couple of days, unfortunately i bought it before i had a chance to read this post, does anyone know what type of insulin this would contain, i'm hoping its humalog, but i doubt it, i dont have good luck.

Plus i'm certain this is taken orally...so did i just waste 6.50$?

if anyone has anymore readings on insulin please post them, i need to do more research on this stuff.

Thanks
:alien:
 
Bunkka said:
What kind of sugar carbs are in 100% fruit juices, such as white grape?

That's what I took my 1st shot with today and I felt no side affects. Approximately 12 ounces of white grape w/ creatine and other supplements, at the time.

I've felt a bit nausious (sort of in the empty stomach kinda way) the past couple of hours and have a date for some japanese food in a bit, as I AM STARVED! :)

Again.. what type of sugar is in fruit juices?

Not to sound rude, but dont you fucking think you should at least be familiar with the differences of common sugars before using insulin for god's sake...this is an example of how NOT to be with slin... not prepared ... if you were to go into hypo for example Bunka, what type of carbs would you consume to help you out of it?

anyway, fructose is the sugar in grape juice, it is a moderate 48 or so on the glycemic index scaled against glucose at a 100 rating... Chad Nicholls prefers fructose over dextrose... I would continue to use the fructose but you should *always* have glucose tablets for diabetics on hand when using insulin, if you start feeling signs of hypo keep swallowing them until you feel better... in a pinch a regular, NOT DIET, but regular coke is a trick used to boost blood sugar quickly...

Not a flame to you really bunka but for god's sake, be safe...


gsxr600 - .. Do you really think you bought Insulin from twinlab? You probably bought insulin fuel which is a mid grade insulin sensitizer... I would hope you'd do a LITTLE more research than you have so far if you ever get ahold of real insulin...


I guess these are 2 examples of perhaps people who should not be using insulin...
 
Also my guess is that the insulin sensitizing actions of r-ala are going to be very helpful to counteract the possible temporary loss of sensitization when using insulin...I would ***NOT*** recommend using r-ala whilst using insulin at the same time, but on the days that you do not use slin then I would suggest it to prevent attenuation
 
Frackal.. I do appreciate your concern. No flame taken in your response.

Today was my first shot of insulin, post workout.

I was aware that Dextrose was the sugar of choice when taking insulin. I knew that when told, I'd feel like an idiot for not coming up with fructose in fruit juice and fruit products.

I took 5 IUs today with 12 ounces of juice and felt absolutely nothing. It worked great.

I'm going to take the insulin very cautiously, always with coke around, juice around, in my home and don't expect to leave the house in most instances for 2 hours after taking it. I AM also planning on hitting the pharmacy in the next few days (won't likely be taking slin through that time, either) and pick me up some of that diabetic candy, high in dextrose, just to be safe.

I agree with the majority in that Slin is not for everybody; if you're generally a "F*#% up", forget your keys all the time, lose track of time, forget important tasks, just basically careless... Slin is not for you. I am, conversely, often over-cautious and have my stuff together pretty well.

Thanks for the help.
 
Frackal - Dont worry i'm definately not doing anything, or sticking any needles into me before i have all the info i need. I'm new to this whole super supplements, but i really doubt i'll ever do any. Not that hardcore...I'm just here trying to absorb as much as possible.

Thanks for the concern.
:mrmuscle:
 
Frackal said:
Also my guess is that the insulin sensitizing actions of r-ala are going to be very helpful to counteract the possible temporary loss of sensitization when using insulin...I would ***NOT*** recommend using r-ala whilst using insulin at the same time, but on the days that you do not use slin then I would suggest it to prevent attenuation

Would this be the same for regular ALA?
 
INSULIN BLOATS..... so i dont think its a good idea to use it near a competition date as someone here was wondering about.. THe idiots who die off slin are usually Retards who fall asleep on it, and the idiots who just kinda like the HYPO/HYPER rush feeling and dont eat enuff. Or idiots who can't read the amounts right on their syringes and use way too much.. O'Well....
 
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