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Max-OT
- Thread starter JKurz1
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biggeek
New member
well.. i don't follow the diet.. MAX-OT is more just a training strategy than a diet plan.. and I usually make my workouts a little more like 45 minutes or so.. 30 minutes just isn't enough time for me to get in a focused workout.. plus i talk to people at the gym in between sets.. lol..
anyway.. i've been training MAX-OT for like over a year now.. hard to remember what my gains really were.. I would say.. natty lifting.. maxot style.. and a good diet at the time.. i had put on around 10lbs of LBM.. and went up majorly in every lift.. maxot is the best for natty lifters or juicers.. i lifted max-ot while juicing and i mean DAMN i got strong.. i highly recommened people to try this program.. i've tried to get some training buddies at the gym that have been working out for years beyond me.. to work out with me and do maxot.. but they are all stuck in their ideas and afraid of always lifting heavy.. but hey.. if you wanna be lifting the same weight for the next two months while i go up 10-15lbs.. then so be it..
anyway.. i've been training MAX-OT for like over a year now.. hard to remember what my gains really were.. I would say.. natty lifting.. maxot style.. and a good diet at the time.. i had put on around 10lbs of LBM.. and went up majorly in every lift.. maxot is the best for natty lifters or juicers.. i lifted max-ot while juicing and i mean DAMN i got strong.. i highly recommened people to try this program.. i've tried to get some training buddies at the gym that have been working out for years beyond me.. to work out with me and do maxot.. but they are all stuck in their ideas and afraid of always lifting heavy.. but hey.. if you wanna be lifting the same weight for the next two months while i go up 10-15lbs.. then so be it..
biggeek
New member
Diet right now is around 3-3500 cals a day.. bulking it was more like 5k.. mrp's.. chicken.. tuna.. rice.. potatoes.. the staples... i just finished a 10 week cycle so i'm a little more on the heavier side.. i was about 200lbs.. now cutting up a little.. back to 190..
A few of them are as strong as me and stronger.. some of them are professionals at this.. but they use the same weight forever.. never move up.. and do it for like 10 reps.. or do drop sets and things.. while i'm consistently going up in weights and size.. and they all notice it.. i tell them how I do it.. but they can't seem to believe that you could do only 4-6 reps and so little sets and still get a good pump.. funny.. because i get the most extreme pumps while lifting heavy.. when i started maxot.. i was lifting pretty light for my weight.. it was heavy to me.. but light compared to others.. but all that matters for maxot is to lift what is heavy for you for 4-6 reps.. maybe occasionally stretching to 8 reps.. do a low amount of sets.. but put everything you've got into those 10 or so sets.. some people are just unwilling to try new things.. like maxot.. but i wasn't.. and it changed my life in the gym forever.. i just recommend a GOOD joint supp while doing maxot training because lifting that heavy for 12 weeks at a time or so.. can put a hurtin on your joints... especially if you run winny..
A few of them are as strong as me and stronger.. some of them are professionals at this.. but they use the same weight forever.. never move up.. and do it for like 10 reps.. or do drop sets and things.. while i'm consistently going up in weights and size.. and they all notice it.. i tell them how I do it.. but they can't seem to believe that you could do only 4-6 reps and so little sets and still get a good pump.. funny.. because i get the most extreme pumps while lifting heavy.. when i started maxot.. i was lifting pretty light for my weight.. it was heavy to me.. but light compared to others.. but all that matters for maxot is to lift what is heavy for you for 4-6 reps.. maybe occasionally stretching to 8 reps.. do a low amount of sets.. but put everything you've got into those 10 or so sets.. some people are just unwilling to try new things.. like maxot.. but i wasn't.. and it changed my life in the gym forever.. i just recommend a GOOD joint supp while doing maxot training because lifting that heavy for 12 weeks at a time or so.. can put a hurtin on your joints... especially if you run winny..
biggeek
New member
i've used Ultramet and Metrx in the past.. or make my own.. we've already discussed that.. ha ha.. Ultramet's taste amazing.. best one out there in my opinion... but as for working out am... Skip La Cour.. which is a natural lifter for AST who created the MaxOT method.. works out at 4:30am.. and you should see the guy.. ripped and built all to hell.. amazing physique really.. him and jeff willet.. both of them train early AM if i'm not mistaken.. so other than pre and post workout nutrition.. there is no reason you couldn't do this in the morning or any reason why it would be any different
biggeek
New member
JKurz1 said:
Well.. i personally can not speak from much experience.. i have only worked out AM a few times.. it just doesn't fit my schedule and i have NIL energy in the AM.. anyway.. here are some links to check out.. Skip and Jeff's training logs.. diets.. EVERYTHING.. in full.. so you can see how these real guys are doing it.. when they are eating.. what they are eating.. what supps they are taking when and how much.. and comments on their training and other things.. www.skiplacour.com... all the info about him.. not that he is ALL that great or anything.. but for a natty lifter.. an amazing guy.. and serious about his stuff.. cool site to check out all about him.. should give you a LOT of info on the questions you've been asking lately.. he works out at 4:30am.. so read up on his diet and supps pre and post workout and how he does it.. should give you a good idea on what to do.. http://www.ast-ss.com/jeffwillet/RoadTo2003/DailyJournal.asp?display=topic&jid=95&week=15 .. that is a link to Jeff Willets 2003 training journal.. talking all about his training.. motivation.. supplement schedule.. diet.. everything up until his contest win in 2003.. pretty inspirational really.. check them out.. good luck man
biggeek
New member
slyder190 said:
I have no doubts he has probably done some things in the past.. along with Jeff as well.. but I honestly believe that for the most part they are natural lifters now.. and I don't see why not.. it is possible to get like that being natural.. you just have to expand on every natural capability your body has and take it to the extreme's.. in terms of training.. diet.. and supps.. and i think those two guys really do that.. plus they compete in natural shows as well.. many people don't..
biggeek
New member
slyder190 said:
I am WELL aware of this fact.. but I still think they are two of the most dedicated individuals in the business and have some solid ideas and practices that could help a lot of people out.. natural or not.. i honestly could care less.. i'm not natural.. but i've employed some of their ideas and techniques and while juicing.. have made tremendous gains..
Slyder190
New member
I did Max-OT when I started my last winter cycle. I crashed pretty hard after my cycle (no HCG) and had nothing in particular to show for it. I've never tried it naturally, but it's really nothing special at all. Low volume, heavy weights. Instead of the standard 6-12 reps to failure, this is 4-6 reps to failure. Might be a nice change of pace and can add strength for those not used to dipping to a low rep range, but it's a pretty standard rotuine. Just like anything else, it will stop working after a while. You can't use it indefinately.
biggeek
New member
JKurz1 said:
Exactly what i'm saying.. from a exercise physiological and sports med stand point.. this program should provide the greatest gains and benefits overall.. it's the way the body works.. i mean.. you can't deny that.. it just makes too much sense.. for anyone that doubts it.. try it yourselfs.. it's the most intense workout you'll ever have and i haven't looked back sense.. i lift more weights consistently week after week... cycle or no cycle.. just with Max-OT.. and a solid diet..
Slyder190
New member
JKurz1 said:
Good point, but there are popular methods in there. I'm not saying the program is worthless, just not the be-all, end-all of routines. 165 pages is too much for me to sit and go through rigth now. They need a modified, straight to the point version. Although, i understand they break evrything down answering a lot of questions and making valid points and try to giver the reader a good understanding of everything. Also gotta remember though, AST has an alterior motive. To sell AST products.
JKurz1
Banned
I agree 100%...........no one is advocating the products, as they are the same protein and MRPS as anywhere else..........It just SOUNDS like a great program for someone trying to put on lean mass, avoid overtraining, and get strong........I'm a fan of the 5x5 method also. THe rest, I just can't speak for, never tried...........I was just overtraining so much in the past that I hope I can quit when I suppose to.........print it off like I did and read it tonight...........
musketeer
New member
I like most of the principals - it's similar to HIT and Yates' and Platz's routines, but I like to do higher reps more often - stuff like a 100rep drop set for calves, going from a massive weight that you can hardly rep to 20kg that feels like 1,000kg because you've blasted them so hard. Or how about doing the two heavy squat sets and then stripping off to leave just 185lb and going for 50 reps? Sometimes doing 5 sets of 20 or something can really blast you into shape too. Generally I do 4-8 myself though.
biggeek
New member
No training program is ever going to be "end all be all" program.. what works for one person.. is different from another.. yeah.. 160 something pages is a lot.. but it also wasn't meant to be read all at once... but a week by week layout of a LOT of things.. with more info than just about training.. they go into everything.. including diet.. and supplemenation.. but of course AST is gonna push their products.. can you blame them? Plus I think they have a pretty solid product line.. been nothing but impressed by their stuff so far.. and currently use many of their products.. i found their VP2 whey protein to be supreme.. but expensive as all get out.. but it made a noticable difference.. anyway.. depending on my energy level.. and the muscle i'm working.. i might go a little higher reps.. sets.. etc.. but for the most part.. leg.. chest.. i lift as heavy as i can.. for like 5-6 reps.. if i can do more reps than that.. i add more weight.. it's simple really.. it's just like HIT and a lot of powerlifter routines.. it's what the muscles know.. you add increasingly heavier and heavier weights.. and they are forced to grow.. doing high reps may increase definition.. but will never drastically increase size like heavy lifting will.. just no comparison.. i almost consistently put on 2-3 lbs on every exercise I do.. every week.. from lifting MaxOT.. that over a 10-12 week time span is a HUGE difference.. when some of my training partners are still lifting the same amount of weight.. or maybe 5-10lbs more.. and when i'm juicing.. watch out.. i could put on 15-20lbs on each exercise in two weeks.. it's insane.. but anyway.. I have read the MaxOT thing front to back before.. and read about their MaxOT cardio.. which is really just a glorified and slightly tweaked version of HIT cardio.. but it is VERY effective.. now lets all stop talking about this and head to the gym and try it!
JKurz1
Banned
BigGeek said:No training program is ever going to be "end all be all" program.. what works for one person.. is different from another.. yeah.. 160 something pages is a lot.. but it also wasn't meant to be read all at once... but a week by week layout of a LOT of things.. with more info than just about training.. they go into everything.. including diet.. and supplemenation.. but of course AST is gonna push their products.. can you blame them? Plus I think they have a pretty solid product line.. been nothing but impressed by their stuff so far.. and currently use many of their products.. i found their VP2 whey protein to be supreme.. but expensive as all get out.. but it made a noticable difference.. anyway.. depending on my energy level.. and the muscle i'm working.. i might go a little higher reps.. sets.. etc.. but for the most part.. leg.. chest.. i lift as heavy as i can.. for like 5-6 reps.. if i can do more reps than that.. i add more weight.. it's simple really.. it's just like HIT and a lot of powerlifter routines.. it's what the muscles know.. you add increasingly heavier and heavier weights.. and they are forced to grow.. doing high reps may increase definition.. but will never drastically increase size like heavy lifting will.. just no comparison.. i almost consistently put on 2-3 lbs on every exercise I do.. every week.. from lifting MaxOT.. that over a 10-12 week time span is a HUGE difference.. when some of my training partners are still lifting the same amount of weight.. or maybe 5-10lbs more.. and when i'm juicing.. watch out.. i could put on 15-20lbs on each exercise in two weeks.. it's insane.. but anyway.. I have read the MaxOT thing front to back before.. and read about their MaxOT cardio.. which is really just a glorified and slightly tweaked version of HIT cardio.. but it is VERY effective.. now lets all stop talking about this and head to the gym and try it!
Agreed...............havent read on the cardio portion, but it seemed pretty weak, no? Stationary bike??? What do you use? How often?
biggeek
New member
The cardio can actually be quite difficult.. and i hate running.. which is easiest to do obviously.. but it's hell on my joints.. but yeah.. they use the recumbent bikes in the gym.. and set it to an interval level.. warm up.. and then go balls to the wall intesense for 16 minutes.. then cool down and stop.. like trying like a sprinter.. because to consistently sprint while running can be very very taxing.. it's much easier to go all out on a bike you can't fall off of.. lol.. but it is definatly intense man.. glad to hear your liking their stuff.. i love AST.. smart smart guys over there.. i don't care if they are pushing their products.. they have solid advice behind it..
Oh yeah.. i too use the recumbent bike when i do cardio.. i usually do a maxot cardio style of cardio.. just depends on how i feel.. i will either do it first thing in the am.. or post workout.. or on a completely different day from my workout.. like on an off day.. it all depends.. but like 3 days a week is typical for me.. i don't put a LOT of emphasis on cardio.. never really have.. i can manipulate my body with training and diet and mild cardio..
Oh yeah.. i too use the recumbent bike when i do cardio.. i usually do a maxot cardio style of cardio.. just depends on how i feel.. i will either do it first thing in the am.. or post workout.. or on a completely different day from my workout.. like on an off day.. it all depends.. but like 3 days a week is typical for me.. i don't put a LOT of emphasis on cardio.. never really have.. i can manipulate my body with training and diet and mild cardio..
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Debaser
Guest
I really fail to see what is so special about this program. It's a split routine with medium volume, and nothing more. It's pretty organized, and forcing people to actually devote themselves to the entire course of the program is probably what's responsible for the good results.
biggeek
New member
i don't follow the program to the T.. i don't follow any specific program really.. but i borrow from here and there the things I like and the things I find work for my body.. the maxot stuff just makes a lot of sense and has consisently put mass and strength on me.. it's as simple as that.. if nothing else it's worth a good bathroom read.. lol.. that's what i did
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Debaser
Guest
Biggest flaw of the program:
"Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days."
Since it's well-established that hypertrophy runs its course within 48 hours, why wait another 3-5 days? That's time you could be growing.
"Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days."
Since it's well-established that hypertrophy runs its course within 48 hours, why wait another 3-5 days? That's time you could be growing.
biggeek
New member
Debaser said:
Because hypertrophy is not what causes muscle gains and recovery.. it is more or less a byproduct of it.. just blood being and NO being trapped inside the muscle.. the best time to go back and work out a muscle is when you personally feel that, that muscle has had enough time to recovery.. for my legs and the way i lift.. i have to have atleast 5 days before i hit them again.. because i'm limping for atleast a day after my leg workouts.. chest too.. but shoulders and arms i could do more often.. but i tend not too.. i just lift heavier to make up for it..
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Debaser
Guest
BigGeek said:
I think you need to look up hypertrophy again. Hypertrophy = muscle growth.
ghettostudmuffin
New member
A muscle may be finished growing in 48 hours, but that doesn't mean it is going to detrain or shrink if you wait 5-7 days again to train it. The real question is, how is your cns doing? You may be able to train a muscle every other day, but can your cns cope? That all depends on your specific body. I know I personally could train full body 3 days a week with low volume each session and makes gains, but I prefer training 4 days a week and training each muscle once a week. Also, if I were to train fullbody intensely 3x per week my muscles may grow a little faster than once a week, but can my cns take it? From past experience, no, at least not without moderating myself. Not if I"m trying to seriously push the weights up on a constant basis. In this case a powerlifting or once a week muscle training schedule works better for long term strength building, but that's just my opinion. Of course training a muscle 3x a week may be pheasible in some situations and even superior, for building great strength it is not considered generally to be as good as a powerlifting or weightlifting type scheme for strength. And if it was, then why don't the elite powerlifters and weightlifters or strong men train that way? The answer is that if you train hard and heavy on a consistent body your body can take only so much of a beating from constantly doing the same movements which brings us to different loading schemes used to combat this such weightlifting's heavy-light-medium system on generally a small number of lifts trained each 3 days a week to westside switching up the main exercise every week or training each muscle on a less frequent basis such as once every 5-7 days not to mention different periodization schemes.
There is no best program. Some work better at certain things and others work better at others things, but generally you can look to what the best lifters are doing to get strong and pretty much guarantee that within a certain range they all follow similar guidelines within a certain limited scope.
Train hard, train heavy, eat enough, rest enough, be progressive and patient and experiment.
There is no best program. Some work better at certain things and others work better at others things, but generally you can look to what the best lifters are doing to get strong and pretty much guarantee that within a certain range they all follow similar guidelines within a certain limited scope.
Train hard, train heavy, eat enough, rest enough, be progressive and patient and experiment.
JKurz1
Banned
you guys have to relax and understand Debaser......if it's not the program he does, he'll find something wrong with it.........plain and simple. If it works for him it MUST work for everyone else.............I think this sounds like a great program, as does 5x5, and a few others.............end of story.
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Debaser
Guest
JKurz1 said:
You asked for opinions on max-ot, buddy. Don't turn into a blubbering vagina when they're not what you want to hear.
I find it hilarious that you keep searching for the ultimate split routine (they're fucking all the same, jackass), when we tried to spoon-feed you HST months back, and then at the last minute you simply refused to try it because you "didn't think it could work." You keep going from routine to routine (but always split routine to split routine) thinking you'll make some marvelous discovery, and yet refuse to try anything actually different, methods that are actually proven scientifically AND with real-world results! If that's not ignorance I need a new dictionary.
Maybe you should quit hogging all the stupid, yes? That's okay, after you do this program for a few weeks (days?), I'm sure you'll find the ULTIMATE program. Maybe it'll have a slightly higher rep range, a bit more volume, a different schedule of bodypart splits (but will still be once a week), 5% less intensity, and a few different exercises. This time, it'll be TOTALLY DIFFERENT!
JKurz1
Banned
Debaser said:
Here BRO - take a prozac.....it'll take the edge off. It's too bad that you need to resort to name calling over this, but that's the exact image you portray, so I guess it's fitting. I'm not in SEARCH of the ultimate routine. I'm in SEARCH of keeping my training exciting, incorporating new ideas, theories, lifts, etc. I just finished a 12 week 5x5, after training with high volume for awhile and put on about 10lbs.......I'd reccomend that program to anyone looking to add size and strength. Now, I want to try something a little different, esp. if it entails getting in and out fast........quick, intense, and to the point.........you do what you want, I guess I'm just a vagina.....lol......
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Debaser
Guest
JKurz1 said:Here BRO - take a prozac.....it'll take the edge off. It's too bad that you need to resort to name calling over this, but that's the exact image you portray, so I guess it's fitting. I'm not in SEARCH of the ultimate routine. I'm in SEARCH of keeping my training exciting, incorporating new ideas, theories, lifts, etc. I just finished a 12 week 5x5, after training with high volume for awhile and put on about 10lbs.......I'd reccomend that program to anyone looking to add size and strength. Now, I want to try something a little different, esp. if it entails getting in and out fast........quick, intense, and to the point.........you do what you want, I guess I'm just a vagina.....lol......
Too bad that I had to "resort"? You're the one that posted the inflammatory reply that prompted my response.
By the way, none of Max-OTs theories or ideas are "new," and most of them are false.
that was over the line debaser
I agree that max-ot is bullshit and it bothers me even more when they pull things out of their ass and present them as universal principles for everyone
but if he wants to do it, WHATEVER! not your loss
The question is, what do you think about max-ot, and your reponse became "you are stupid"
You need to cool it.
I agree that max-ot is bullshit and it bothers me even more when they pull things out of their ass and present them as universal principles for everyone
but if he wants to do it, WHATEVER! not your loss
The question is, what do you think about max-ot, and your reponse became "you are stupid"
You need to cool it.
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Debaser
Guest
JKurz1 said:
That's what I responded to. When he asked for opinions on max-ot, I was courteous till he posted that garbage. Explain why this is my fault again?
biggeek
New member
wow.. this discussion got WAY out of hand!..
I seriously cannot understand why people always seem to bash the MAX-OT method but then turn around and say it's like everything else.. if it's like everything else.. which means you have to have done it or are currently using it.. you must like it.. so it works.. just doesn't make sense to me
Your right.. maxot may not work perfect for everyone.. but it's something new to try.. it's really similar to HST and HIT.. in the sense that you are lifting heavier and heavier weights with more intensity... for the people that posted the recovery times being off.. then good for you.. use less days.. the program doesn't have to be followed to the letter.. just a good guideline.. and use the things you like and dismiss what you don't.. it's what i do..
Personally the maxot method works extremely well for me.. my body responds well to lifting heavy..in a short amount of time.. and about 4-5 days between workouts.. or really.. two days or so after i stop being sore.. if i'm still sore.. i won't work out again.. means my body is still trying to repair itself.. anyway..
I think people's dislikes with the maxot method are more because of AST themselves.. or jeff willet and skip la cour.. or something similar and has nothing for the dislike of the method.. have another company produce the same ideas and program.. people would probably love it.. but go figure.. that's just life for ya.
I seriously cannot understand why people always seem to bash the MAX-OT method but then turn around and say it's like everything else.. if it's like everything else.. which means you have to have done it or are currently using it.. you must like it.. so it works.. just doesn't make sense to me
Your right.. maxot may not work perfect for everyone.. but it's something new to try.. it's really similar to HST and HIT.. in the sense that you are lifting heavier and heavier weights with more intensity... for the people that posted the recovery times being off.. then good for you.. use less days.. the program doesn't have to be followed to the letter.. just a good guideline.. and use the things you like and dismiss what you don't.. it's what i do..
Personally the maxot method works extremely well for me.. my body responds well to lifting heavy..in a short amount of time.. and about 4-5 days between workouts.. or really.. two days or so after i stop being sore.. if i'm still sore.. i won't work out again.. means my body is still trying to repair itself.. anyway..
I think people's dislikes with the maxot method are more because of AST themselves.. or jeff willet and skip la cour.. or something similar and has nothing for the dislike of the method.. have another company produce the same ideas and program.. people would probably love it.. but go figure.. that's just life for ya.
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Debaser
Guest
Bro, it's a lot different than HST. Some of its founding principles are directly opposed to it.
