mass is good but dont neglect PROPORTION thread.

[satchboogie]

the gym is full of different physiques. from recreational bodybuilders to powerlifters to professionals you'll see many variations in muscle sizes and physical appearances.

now, nothing is more unpleasant to the eye than an unproportional physique. like the dude who is always either bench pressing or working on his biceps. he has massive arms and front delts but no abs, no back and in the locker room when he takes his shirt off you say to yourself something like "damn, that mother fucker is so augmented".

or that dude who is constantly working on his upper body but has toothpick legs. rest assured that shorts will not be on his summer shopping list.

so take a look at the mirror and say to yourself... what muscles are lagging. then, train those muscles for a good month or two and get em up to par. there's nothing wrong with not working out your chest for a few weeks if its over-proportionate to the rest of the body. give the big muscles a rest and focus on other lagging parts.

often neglected muscles:

rear deltoid
abs
lats
hamstrings

MASS AINT SHIT IF PROPORTION AINT THERE!

 

[Lee]

hehe, thats me. i got little legs for my body size, i just started workin em yesterday and had a really good workout, did the 75 rep calf raise as a finisher, burned like mad, couldnt get up for a minute. but today my legs feel good, arent too sore even though destroyed em yesterday.

 

[satchboogie]

hehe, thats me. i got little legs for my body size, i just started workin em yesterday and had a really good workout, did the 75 rep calf raise as a finisher, burned like mad, couldnt get up for a minute. but today my legs feel good, arent too sore even though destroyed em yesterday.

good stuff man. keep it up and before you know it your legs will catch up.

 

[Lee]

hehe, thats the idea, right now im avoiding free weight squats though, ive always had somewhat messed up knees, so for now im doin machine hack squats.

 

[gmanlax7]

free weight squats are definatly worth giving a shot, if your form is good they shouldn't hurt your knees.

its pretty amazing how fast they have added size/definition to my legs.

 

[TheOak84]

often neglected muscles:

rear deltoid
abs
lats
hamstrings

rear delt - never
abs - sometimes
lats - ??? are you kidding.. NEVER
hamstrings - never, never, never

 

[satchboogie]

Re: Re: mass is good but dont neglect PROPORTION thread.

rear delt - never
abs - sometimes
lats - ??? are you kidding.. NEVER
hamstrings - never, never, never

yeah, we know.

YOU'RE GOD!

 

[bigbadmadmanD]

yes proportion is key but i dont agree with your tactics

never look at a muscle(ie chest) as ahead of others, but instead think of the lagging muscle(usually legs) as needing to catch up.

instead, hit the lagging muscles right after your rest days when you have the most fuel, prioritize them. But never neglect one muscle in order to bring it down to the level of a smaller muscle.

if that theory held water, then i shoulda never lifted, i was perfectly proportional when i had all small muscles at age of 14.

 

[satchboogie]

yes proportion is key but i dont agree with your tactics

never look at a muscle(ie chest) as ahead of others, but instead think of the lagging muscle(usually legs) as needing to catch up.

instead, hit the lagging muscles right after your rest days when you have the most fuel, prioritize them. But never neglect one muscle in order to bring it down to the level of a smaller muscle.

if that theory held water, then i shoulda never lifted, i was perfectly proportional when i had all small muscles at age of 14.

\

i must disagree with you on that one.

if my middle and rear deltoids were proportionally smaller, for example, then my front deltoid, i would neglect doing any military presses or any chest presses for a few weeks. during that time i would focus on exercises for the lagging parts.

but dont get me wrong... every few weeks i would hit my chest and front delt with a hard workout.

if we could come up with a formula to proportionate our bodies it would be:

3 workouts of the lagging muscle then 1 workout for the others.

that's my theory.

 

[gmanlax7]

i don't compete, so i don't worry that much about symmetry.

I just want everything to be as big and strong as possible, so im not gonna punish my chest for being bigger than my shoulders by skipping a chest workout.

 

[bigbadmadmanD]

im just sayin if i had lagging rear delts, i wouldnt stop training the other heads of the deltoids, i would just do my rear delts exercise first in the workout, when i got the most energy and the traps are fresh, and then move on to the other heads

 

[satchboogie]

im just sayin if i had lagging rear delts, i wouldnt stop training the other heads of the deltoids, i would just do my rear delts exercise first in the workout, when i got the most energy and the traps are fresh, and then move on to the other heads

wrong approach.

are you saying that you are the most powerful on the first exercises of a workout?

that's scientically unproven.

i dont know about you but when my energy level drops i simply end the workout.

by your apporach, you are strongest during the first part of the workout and when you start losing strength you move on to other muscle groups... dude.. that's wrong man!

 

[gmanlax7]

of course you are the most powerful on the first exercises of a workout

i can do a lot more pullups at the beginning of a back workout then i can at the end of one

 

[b fold the truth]

Re: Re: mass is good but dont neglect PROPORTION thread.

rear delt - never
abs - sometimes
lats - ??? are you kidding.. NEVER
hamstrings - never, never, never

You saying that you never train those muscles?

B True

 

[gmanlax7]

i think he was saying he never neglects them

 

[satchboogie]

of course you are the most powerful on the first exercises of a workout

i can do a lot more pullups at the beginning of a back workout then i can at the end of one

that's because the muscle is overloaded and cannot endure more stress.

but are you saying that after, lets say, a back workout, you cannot hit your biceps with high intensity?

 

[Thaibox]

I understand what you're saying needsleep, but I have to disagree. If a 160 lb guy has perfect proportions, I don't give a crap. He still looks like a scrawny 160 lb guy to me. But, if a 260 lb cut guy has lagging rear delts, I don't say "psshhh, what a wuss, look at those disproportionate rear delts."

If people are training hard to get big, they'd be very foolish to focus on such a small thing as"rear delts" or hams." Grow as big as fucking possible, then worry about that sculpting crap. I believe one of the main reasons people have such slow progress in the gym is because they waste their time focusing on specific body parts when their whole body actually sucks.

Grow until you squek through doors, then worry about proportion

 

[satchboogie]

I understand what you're saying needsleep, but I have to disagree. If a 160 lb guy has perfect proportions, I don't give a crap. He still looks like a scrawny 160 lb guy to me. But, if a 260 lb cut guy has lagging rear delts, I don't say "psshhh, what a wuss, look at those disproportionate rear delts."

If people are training hard to get big, they'd be very foolish to focus on such a small thing as"rear delts" or hams." Grow as big as fucking possible, then worry about that sculpting crap. I believe one of the main reasons people have such slow progress in the gym is because they waste their time focusing on specific body parts when their whole body actually sucks.

Grow until you squek through doors, then worry about proportion

no my friend. i must GROSSLY disagree!

you neglected to mention that the chances of injury are greater as one becomes stronger. and with that in mind, an unproportional muscle (like laggin rear deltoid for example) may be the cause for many injuries that are often experienced by bodybuilders and in particulary power lifters.

 

[gmanlax7]

that is a great qoute you ended with there thaibox, thats gonna be my new motto

satchboogie - after a hard back workout, i could hit my bi's with intensity, but not as intense as if i started off that workout with the bi's OR if i gave bi's their own day. I'm human and i get worn out, so i agree with the logic that if your prioritizing a bodypart's growth as your number one concern, you should prioritize it in the workout, too, and hit it when your freshest.

I strutted into the gym today to do deads, real fired up, but when it was over i crawled out of there. Get my point ?

 

[Thaibox]

but are you saying that after, lets say, a back workout, you cannot hit your biceps with high intensity?

I guarantee that that is the case.

Tomorrow go do 5 sets of deads, some rows, and chins....then tell me you can hit your bis with the same strength and intensity as you could fresh. No way. Where is your logic my man?

 

[b fold the truth]

I understand what you're saying needsleep, but I have to disagree. If a 160 lb guy has perfect proportions, I don't give a crap. He still looks like a scrawny 160 lb guy to me. But, if a 260 lb cut guy has lagging rear delts, I don't say "psshhh, what a wuss, look at those disproportionate rear delts."

If people are training hard to get big, they'd be very foolish to focus on such a small thing as"rear delts" or hams." Grow as big as fucking possible, then worry about that sculpting crap. I believe one of the main reasons people have such slow progress in the gym is because they waste their time focusing on specific body parts when their whole body actually sucks.

Grow until you squek through doors, then worry about proportion

My sentiments exactly.

Too many people focus on looking perfect at 150, 160, 170, and 180...and because of that they NEVER reach 250+. Squats, bench presses, and dead lifts don't build perfect muscles...but they do build big ones.

I've never seen some 170 pound guy and thought...wow doesn't he look proportionate. I do look at 280 pound guys and think...wow that guy is a freak.

The difference...I can say that the 280 pound guy can spend about 4 months and bring up is weak points...

The 170 pound guy can spend the next 6 years getting big.

B True

 

[satchboogie]

im just sayin if i had lagging rear delts, i wouldnt stop training the other heads of the deltoids, i would just do my rear delts exercise first in the workout, when i got the most energy and the traps are fresh, and then move on to the other heads

GYMANLAX7..........

lets get back to this idea above as we have 2 schools of thought on lagging body parts.

1) train them first thing in your workout, then proceed to other muscles.

2) focus on those muscles for 3 consecutive workouts and maybe throw in a few sets on other muscles, and once every few weeks hit up the other muscles hard. then back to the 3 consecutive workouts etc. etc. etc.

 

[TheOak84]

Re: Re: Re: mass is good but dont neglect PROPORTION thread.

You saying that you never train those muscles?

B True

No, he said those were of often neglected muscles...
i forgot to include that when I quoted him, sorry..

but ya, i would never ever think of neglecting my lats or hammies,
thats crazy talk but i do neglect abs, i train them about once or twice a month... i train rear delts directly once a week, and they get hit with dead and rows, so its all gravy

 

[bigbadmadmanD]

i never trained legs when i was in high school, now that i am in college, i finally buckled down and committed to getting my legs up to par.

i do this by "prioritizing legs"
my leg day follows my two days off,
my back day follows legs,
then my chest follows back, etc....

this way my lesser developed "lagging" muscles can catch up, but i am not directly neglecting the other muscle groups

this prioritizing can be done many ways, legs day is followed by my two longest nights of sleep, and as far from any drinking i may do(lets not get into the booze talk)

my disagreement with you is in style and it may not fit your ideology, but hopefully others will find such prioritzing helpful

 

[Baoh]

wrong approach.

are you saying that you are the most powerful on the first exercises of a workout?

that's scientically unproven.

i dont know about you but when my energy level drops i simply end the workout.

by your apporach, you are strongest during the first part of the workout and when you start losing strength you move on to other muscle groups... dude.. that's wrong man!

You're incorrect.

 

[louden_swain]

this thread is common sense.

 

[BlkWS6]

I think you guys have to consider genetics too, and dont be too quick to point the finger at "that guy" we all see in the gym. Some of us are just dealt a bad hand (ie. calves are a problem for a large majority of people) and if the muscle just isnt there to begin with you are going to have a hell of a time bringing it up to be "proportional" to the rest of your body. I'll use my self as an example, I train calves with a ton of intensity, but due to a high insertion they are never going to be my strongest body part, and to some people I may never be considered "proportional." That doesnt mean Im slacking ass in the gym and that Im just neglecting calves, that means Im working with what I got to the best of my ability. So just cause you dont see a guy with perfect measurements, dont assume it is because he is neglecting a body part. We all have strengths and weaknesses, but that doesnt mean our weaknesses exist due to a lack of knowledge or effort. And by this post Im by all means not suggesting one just "gives up" because they felt they were dealt a bad hand on genetics (I will continue to train my calves forever, even though I know they will never win any trophies in aesthetics), Im just saying that not everything is always what it seems and that sometimes we shouldnt be too quick to judge.

 

[Baoh]

I think you guys have to consider genetics too, and dont be too quick to point the finger at "that guy" we all see in the gym. Some of us are just dealt a bad hand (ie. calves are a problem for a large majority of people) and if the muscle just isnt there to begin with you are going to have a hell of a time bringing it up to be "proportional" to the rest of your body. I'll use my self as an example, I train calves with a ton of intensity, but due to a high insertion they are never going to be my strongest body part, and to some people I may never be considered "proportional." That doesnt mean Im slacking ass in the gym and that Im just neglecting calves, that means Im working with what I got to the best of my ability. So just cause you dont see a guy with perfect measurements, dont assume it is because he is neglecting a body part. We all have strengths and weaknesses, but that doesnt mean our weaknesses exist due to a lack of knowledge or effort. And by this post Im by all means not suggesting one just "gives up" because they felt they were dealt a bad hand on genetics (I will continue to train my calves forever, even though I know they will never win any trophies in aesthetics), Im just saying that not everything is always what it seems and that sometimes we shouldnt be too quick to judge.

Good point. However, it's pretty easy to see when it's an insertion issue for an underdeveloped muscle. High calves being a prime example.

 

[needsleep]

I understand what you're saying needsleep, but I have to disagree.

Think you mean someone else, I haven't posted in this thread till now

I just read it occasionally trying to make up my own mind from what I know and other peoples opinions.

Listen/read as much as you can, but don't believe everything, is basically what I try to do.

 

[satchboogie]

GYMANLAX7..........

lets get back to this idea above as we have 2 schools of thought on lagging body parts.

1) train them first thing in your workout, then proceed to other muscles.

2) focus on those muscles for 3 consecutive workouts and maybe throw in a few sets on other muscles, and once every few weeks hit up the other muscles hard. then back to the 3 consecutive workouts etc. etc. etc.

lets look at the bottom line..

if you had a lagging body part, which option would you choose to follow. 1 or 2?

 

[Imnotdutch]

You must have led a sheltered life if you truly believe this.......

I personally oculdnt give a damn about proportions.......I lift for strength.

now, nothing is more unpleasant to the eye than an unproportional physique.

 

[Thaibox]

Think you mean someone else, I haven't posted in this thread till now

Sorry man, I guess I meant satchboogie

 

[Thaibox]

GYMANLAX7..........

lets get back to this idea above as we have
2 schools of thought on lagging body parts.

1) train them first thing in your workout,
then proceed to other muscles.

2) focus on those muscles for 3 consecutive
workouts and maybe throw in a few sets on
other muscles, and once every few weeks
hit up the other muscles hard. then back to
the 3 consecutive workouts etc. etc. etc.




lets look at the bottom line..

if you had a lagging body part, which option would you
choose to follow. 1 or 2?

Neither...

Option #3. Continue to train for overall size and strength and not waste time focusing on one little bodypart whose focus would take away from truly productive workouts.

 

[Imnotdutch]

You must have led a sheltered life if you truly believe this.......

I personally oculdnt give a damn about proportions.......I lift for strength.

now, nothing is more unpleasant to the eye than an unproportional physique.

 

[spatts]

My proportions are bigger than your proportions, so there!

What a waste of bandwidth. Yet another thread where we all have different goals, all do something different to meet them, then attribute it to genetics. If you want symmetry, train for it. If you don't, don't. As someone else said, "Common sense."

 

[BlkWS6]

Originally posted by spatts
My proportions are bigger than your proportions, so there! Image: http://dov.ods.org/icon/bigtng.gif




What a waste of bandwidth. Yet another thread where we all have different goals, all do something different to meet them, then attribute it to genetics. If you want symmetry, train for it. If you don't, don't. As someone else said, "Common sense."

I don't know if that "attribute it to genetics" is directed towards me. Like I said at the end of my post, Im not using genetics as a cop out, but plain and simple if the muscle just isnt there (ie. length of the muscle belly) you can train for symmetry until you are blue in the face and you still may not be proportional. My calves are just about 18", but with a high insertion and being 6'1" they will never look all that proportional to my upper body. I wish it was just that easy as "train for symmetry" If that were the case I would have Matarazzo calves by now!!!

 

[spatts]

I was simply pointing out that all these threads usually end up in the same place. I didn't mean it in a derogatory way at all. Sure it's all about genetics, at some level. It just baffles me as to why we can't determine that 100 posts before we do. In other words, the logic pattern to the argument is redundant, but not incorrect.

 

[Thaibox]

I didn't mean it in a derogatory way at all. Sure it's all about genetics, at some level.

It made me cry

 

[spatts]

...better?

 

[Thaibox]

yup yup

 

[BlkWS6]

Thats cool Spatts. I value your response here on the board and I just wanted to clarify whether or not I may have said something that was either wrong, or pissed you off cause that is not my intention.

 

[Debaser]

Thai and B fold are right. Most people are so worried about hitting every muscle group that they often end up overtraining them, and their bodies overall, and never get bigger.

I believe isolating rear delts is absurd. I guess your 600 lb deadlift and 400 lb row aren't giving them enough load. Perhaps a 20 lb lateral will be more beneficial. Wait, you don't deadlift 600 lbs? Maybe if you did you wouldn't have small rear delts.

 

[Lee]

i partially agree with that debaser, but all bodies train and grow differently, some people can train each body part twice a week and see good growth results, some people can only train each body part once a week to see results. personally, i train my bis, tris, chest, and shoulders twice a week on seperated days. then legs and back once a week. its just how i like to train and i like the results, no telling how the next person trains to get the results he wants. its all different.