Madcow & Crew, What Do You Think About This Routine???

[Texas Ranger]

Fellas, what's your opinion of this routine? Do you think this routine would be effective for an advanced weight trainer? If I try it, it'll be used on Monday, Wednesday & Friday alternating A & B. Any tips or modifications?

Workout A
Squats
Flat Bench
Barbell Rows
Military Press
Close Grip Bench Press

Workout B
Deadlifts
Incline Bench
Pullups
Shrugs
Curls

 

[seizer]

Considering the amount of big excercises you have, you set-rep scheme is kinda important to know....but since your calling out Madcow i figure your using 5x5?? Your choice of excerises are great, but I dont really see any reason for Curls because your bi's will get nailed hard by rows and chins. I just finished the program madcow2 posted and i gained roughly an inch on my arms with no direct arm work.

 

[psychedout]

I'm not madcow but I really like it.

I think it would work well do something like this with that:

Week 1 3x10
Week 2 3x8
Week 3 3x6
Week 4 3x4
Week 5 Light week, use light weights and take it easy.
Then repeat.

Your exercise selection is mighty fine if I don't say so myself. I would keep the curls in there because you can always have more biceps.

Only thing I would do is drop the shrugs, but I don't overly care for them. My traps seem to get hit enough from shoulder presses and deadlifts. But to each his own.

 

[Texas Ranger]

Considering the amount of big excercises you have, you set-rep scheme is kinda important to know....but since your calling out Madcow i figure your using 5x5?? Your choice of excerises are great, but I dont really see any reason for Curls because your bi's will get nailed hard by rows and chins. I just finished the program madcow2 posted and i gained roughly an inch on my arms with no direct arm work.

Caesar, I'm seriously thinking about using 5 x 5 with this program. I seen the results you received while using it. GREAT job, brotha!!! I might use this program while using SUPER supplements. My goal is size & strength and this would be perfect. All major exercises and Squats & Deadlifts will be hit twice a week depending on the rotation.

 

[anthrax]

You mean 5X5 for the first exercise and 1 or 2X5 for all the other movements ?

[SUPER supplements : you mean Muscletech don't you ? ]

 

[Texas Ranger]

You mean 5X5 for the first exercise and 1 or 2X5 for all the other movements ?

[SUPER supplements : you mean Muscletech don't you ? ]

I'm thinking 5 x 5 on the first exercise like Squats & Deadlifts and 2 sets of 8-10 reps on the rest. Sort of like Needsize's program without as much volume.

 

[Madcow2]

That leaves you with a basic supercompensation program. Take any program with good exercises in effective set/rep ranges. For an experienced lifter there has to be a plan to systematically manage volume and intensity. There isn't one here. The Bill Starr/JS182 5x5 Program has one built in. HST has one built in. You have good exercises and that will certainly count for something but rather than a program there is only a routine and routines don't work for long and are never optimal especially if you've been training for a while.

My other suggestions would be to make sure you are doing the barbell rows correctly and that the shrugs should be power shrugs not standard barbell crap. Don't waste your time doing direct trap work with anything else. Use the beast of beasts or let the rows and deads take care of it. Post #14 has links to both of these if you need clarification: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

 

[Texas Ranger]

That leaves you with a basic supercompensation program. Take any program with good exercises in effective set/rep ranges. For an experienced lifter there has to be a plan to systematically manage volume and intensity. There isn't one here. The Bill Starr/JS182 5x5 Program has one built in. HST has one built in. You have good exercises and that will certainly count for something but rather than a program there is only a routine and routines don't work for long and are never optimal especially if you've been training for a while.

My other suggestions would be to make sure you are doing the barbell rows correctly and that the shrugs should be power shrugs not standard barbell crap. Don't waste your time doing direct trap work with anything else. Use the beast of beasts or let the rows and deads take care of it. Post #14 has links to both of these if you need clarification: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

What's your opinion of Animalmass' variation of Bill Starr's program on Post #10??

 

[seizer]

Caesar, I'm seriously thinking about using 5 x 5 with this program. I seen the results you received while using it. GREAT job, brotha!!! I might use this program while using SUPER supplements. My goal is size & strength and this would be perfect. All major exercises and Squats & Deadlifts will be hit twice a week depending on the rotation.

Thanks bro. Hey if you need any advice or help with this program, ill do my best to help you as i may no somethings you might want to do the same as me or differently to get the best out of the program.

 

[Madcow2]

DFHT is great. It was created with input from some very smart guys. It's less of a foundation program and more geared to people with a bit of experience. There's a word document that includes a spreadsheet and some other materials that was recently posted. A lot of people have had success running the 5x5, swapping into a DFHT cycle and then switching back.

I believe I linked it recently in the anabolic forum in this thread - just scroll down the page and you will find the link. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4698504#post4698504

 

[Texas Ranger]

DFHT is great. It was created with input from some very smart guys. It's less of a foundation program and more geared to people with a bit of experience. There's a word document that includes a spreadsheet and some other materials that was recently posted. A lot of people have had success running the 5x5, swapping into a DFHT cycle and then switching back.

I believe I linked it recently in the anabolic forum in this thread - just scroll down the page and you will find the link. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4698504#post4698504

Madcow, if you had to pick one program or a variation of the 5 x 5 to increase lean muscle mass, which one would it be???

 

[Madcow2]

The 5x5 is easy to follow and the longer loading/deloading periods allow one to glean more information about his/her individual tolerances as one can adjust during the time periods better. The results are comparable in both programs (not on a cycle basis but over time since DFHT is quite a bit shorter) - shoot, you can even ask Animalmass on meso it's not like JS182 didn't have a ton of input into DFHT, they talk all the time. Even Animalmass suggests running the 5x5 until a good foundation in strength/hypertrophy and basic training knowledge is gained - I think it's right in the document where he states if you can't full squat 1.5x bodyweight you have no business doing anything but the 5x5. IMO, it makes sense to do the 5x5 first for a variety of reasons. I would hazard that your experience here will give you the experience to get the most out of the more condenced DFHT. Either way you aren't going to go too wrong with either choice. They are both good programs. Even the split you suggested at the top is good, you are just missing a massive component that transforms a split into a training program. You can draw it up from scratch but for people who haven't run these and have no idea what they can and can't tolerate - it just makes more sense to use a proven template. It's not as if some magic tweak or split is going to put much more size on you than either of these and in nearly every case where people have overlaid their own methods on it without any experience they end up crippling the program (and of course, it's always the program that was bad - never the changes that they made ).