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low carbs or high fat???
- Thread starter ajfab88
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holy ghost
New member
decent approach but nope that diet sucks
carb cycle bro research it, if you REALLY want to get crazy and drop bigtime but have strictest diet in the world check 'out CKD old diets and or ketosis
carb cycle bro research it, if you REALLY want to get crazy and drop bigtime but have strictest diet in the world check 'out CKD old diets and or ketosis
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
I think you will find it is very difficult to have 'next to nothing carbs'. Each 100 g of peanut butter contains approximately:
625 kcals - 29 g of protein - 13 g of carbs - 52 g of fat
SO
10 g of peanut butter or about one tablespoon is
62.5 kcals - 2.9 g of protein 1.3 g of carbs - 5.2 g of fat
Most people will take in at least 6 tablespoons of peanut butter a day, so 7.3 g of carbs.
Almond butter, hazelnut butter and tahini have less carbs BTW.
Also dieting without any fibrous veg, well, you will probably experience serious constipation. And also feel a lot more hungry without that extra 'bulk' of food in your diet.
If you add up the carbs in everything you eat, they quickly add up. My 'cutting' diet is around 1800 kcals, and I am probably a lot smaller than you, and my carbs quickly add up to between 50-70 g/day on low carb days, from low carb veg and nut butters.
Low carb high fat diets do work, however you can't stay on low carbs all the time. Your body will adapt and fat loss will stagnate.
You will want to consider some type of carb cycling.
Some people love a pattern of low - low - medium - low - high (then repeat)
Or run three to six days low and have one day high or a re-feed.
Or do a timed ketogenic diet.
You also want to remember you will look flat when dieting on low carbs.
You may also find it difficult to lift the same way you have been, you won't be able to lift as much, or lift for as long.
There are other ways to diet that won't have you look flat, or have your workouts impaired. Like carb tapering/carb curfews.
625 kcals - 29 g of protein - 13 g of carbs - 52 g of fat
SO
10 g of peanut butter or about one tablespoon is
62.5 kcals - 2.9 g of protein 1.3 g of carbs - 5.2 g of fat
Most people will take in at least 6 tablespoons of peanut butter a day, so 7.3 g of carbs.
Almond butter, hazelnut butter and tahini have less carbs BTW.
Also dieting without any fibrous veg, well, you will probably experience serious constipation. And also feel a lot more hungry without that extra 'bulk' of food in your diet.
If you add up the carbs in everything you eat, they quickly add up. My 'cutting' diet is around 1800 kcals, and I am probably a lot smaller than you, and my carbs quickly add up to between 50-70 g/day on low carb days, from low carb veg and nut butters.
Low carb high fat diets do work, however you can't stay on low carbs all the time. Your body will adapt and fat loss will stagnate.
You will want to consider some type of carb cycling.
Some people love a pattern of low - low - medium - low - high (then repeat)
Or run three to six days low and have one day high or a re-feed.
Or do a timed ketogenic diet.
You also want to remember you will look flat when dieting on low carbs.
You may also find it difficult to lift the same way you have been, you won't be able to lift as much, or lift for as long.
There are other ways to diet that won't have you look flat, or have your workouts impaired. Like carb tapering/carb curfews.
holy ghost
New member
Throw some olive oil in your protien shakes that will help with constipation
as for fibrous veggies they tend to have great fast digesting carbs if i believe
great for night time snacks tuna is great haz sero carbs , how many carbs do whole
eggs have tatyana???? Keto is HELL. been there and back a few times. Sure
youre going to lose some size and muscles WILL flatten but as soon as you carb load
your glycogen is restored and you basically fill back out CREATINE ethyl ester helps
prevent this flat muscle syndrome , carb tapering should be used regardless
carb curfews as well Great term never heard it put like that!!!
as for fibrous veggies they tend to have great fast digesting carbs if i believe
great for night time snacks tuna is great haz sero carbs , how many carbs do whole
eggs have tatyana???? Keto is HELL. been there and back a few times. Sure
youre going to lose some size and muscles WILL flatten but as soon as you carb load
your glycogen is restored and you basically fill back out CREATINE ethyl ester helps
prevent this flat muscle syndrome , carb tapering should be used regardless
carb curfews as well Great term never heard it put like that!!!
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
holy ghost said:
I think you may have had one of my blonde moments.
It is the starchy carbs that are fast acting, or high GI.
Fibrous carbs, stuff like spinach, asparagus, brocolli, pumpkins and other squashes have slow-releasing carbs.
They still have sugars in them. It is the fibre that our bodies have a hard time digesting to get to the carbs that makes them slow release.
Carbs are not BAD. Just as people thought all FATS were bad, we are now finding there are fats that help to burn fat, that there are fats that are cardioprotective, protect against mental health disorders and demensias.
Similarily, there are carbs that are protective, called glyconutrients. Stevia is one of them. This is going to be the focus of my next batch of reading.
x
x
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holy ghost
New member
So The Fibrous not good if one is carb curferwing right
ajfab88
New member
i know i wont stick to my diet if i keep carbs next to nothing........
thanks guys.....ill eat clean as hell, and try and keep most of my carbs in the morning and post workout, and maybe whole grain sandwhich at lunch or something
so thats oatmeal in the morning.....30 g of carbs
maybe a sandwhich at lunch a few days a week, and then the other 3 days some nuts or something instead of the sanwhich
postworkout sugary carbs such as gatorade-- 50 or so
thats between 100-150 a day.....
with lipoflame and cardio i think i can drop some serious fat fast with that diet..
thanks guys.....ill eat clean as hell, and try and keep most of my carbs in the morning and post workout, and maybe whole grain sandwhich at lunch or something
so thats oatmeal in the morning.....30 g of carbs
maybe a sandwhich at lunch a few days a week, and then the other 3 days some nuts or something instead of the sanwhich
postworkout sugary carbs such as gatorade-- 50 or so
thats between 100-150 a day.....
with lipoflame and cardio i think i can drop some serious fat fast with that diet..
holy ghost
New member
I usually do the whole wheat then taper down to a half and then none just the lunch meat, i sub gatorade for a mid day snack sometimes
Can you carb cycle when trying to gain lean mass.?..Ghost I researched the shit out of carb cycling and it seems to be straight weight loss...I want to add size while staying EXTREMELY lean..I have bumped cardio to 1hr 2x a week and 1/2hr 1 time a week all in the am on a empty stomach ( then i chow down breakfast)....I am 160lbs and 8% and I want to get to 165lbs and 4-6% by the end of my cycle...about 7 weeks left
holy ghost
New member
absolutely ive dropped like 15 pounds 5% bf from doing it for a year str8
thats why you CARB load bro point is starvation time = FAT being used as energy
Soon as you carb load your back to full muscles and size building, stay on anabolics you will ALWAYS grow on virtually any diet, lots more to it bro
thats why you CARB load bro point is starvation time = FAT being used as energy
Soon as you carb load your back to full muscles and size building, stay on anabolics you will ALWAYS grow on virtually any diet, lots more to it bro
holy ghost
New member
3x3 or 3x4
or 4x3 thats what i do
Dont over anyalize it, when your working out focus on working out, leave the diet for after the gym!
or 4x3 thats what i do
Dont over anyalize it, when your working out focus on working out, leave the diet for after the gym!
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
holy ghost said:
Fibrous is like lettuce, celery, asparagus, spinach, brocolli, so you want to eat these carbs at night.
Starchy carbs are rice, potatoes, bananas, bread, pasta, the ones you want to avoid eating at night.
Esta bueno chico? Comprende? A vece me anglais es dificil
holy ghost
New member
chico? ya no me conoces chula.... si te habla espanol porque estaba hablando en ingles
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
1tight_tl said:
Yes, or the next day, you will find a boost from the carbs.
Arnie ran 4 days low one day high.
These are comp dieting techniques though, so they are more geared to maintaining what you got rather than building.
In a timed keto diet, you eat carbs just before and after your workout.
The rest of the day is low carbs.
Also, lads, please check out your whole wheat bread, 9 times out of 10 it is not a good carb source. Full of processed stuff. READ the ingredients.
BROWN RICE, SWEET POTATOES, BAKED POTATOES, even whole wheat pasta, are better sources of carbs.
tatyana_zadorozny said:
Thats actually the ONLY carbs I eat right now...Lots of Oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes, baked potatoes..I dont really eat bread...I am still just confused if I am able to add lean mass carb cycling..I eat really clean right now...alot of the same stuff, over and over and over..
holy ghost
New member
4lowx3high
great post tatanya
great post tatanya
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
1tight_tl said:
Eat clean
Eat a wide variety of foods
Who knows how your body will respond hun, bodybuilding is sort of like running an experiment on yourself.
There are no hard and fast rule written in stone.
I read the pre-comp bible, which lists out what about 70 pro BBer do for comp prep, and really, there is so much variety it makes your head spin.
I also just picked up a copy of Biochemical Individuality -The Key to understanding what shapes your health - The basis for the genetotrophic concept - a classic that links the diversity in our anatomy and body chemistry to our unique nutritional needs.
I hope that give you an idea. Try something for 4-6 weeks, see if it works, if it doesn't modify it.
I have tried at least three different ways of dieting before I have found out that running three - four days low carbs then one day high or a re-feed works for me.
I put on lean mass my first year in comp diet.
I got some advice from a few of the guys who had competed for DECADES.
It is never the same each time you diet.
And it isn't.
I keep records of what I have done, and now I am also keeping much better training and sleep records. At least you can go back and check out what did work and what didn't work.
I don't my diet that is set in stone entirely, I do keep the records (as I mentioned earlier) and I also base some thing on either my weight, bodyfat, bodymeasurements, how tired I am, how hungry I am, or what my gut feeling/intuition tells me.
Bodybuilding is not just a science, it is an art and a philosophy.
BIGMIke007
New member
Good post Tatyana!!!!
What ranage (g) would you put the high carb days in --- 600g??
Ive been carb cycling for 3 weeks now and great results, this is what ive been doing
MON - 100g
TUE - 70g
WED - 600g
THURS - 70g
FRI - 600g
SAT - 150g
SUN - 150g
My only carb sources are Oats and green veggies and 35g glucose post-training. On my high carb days i eat a 1kg box of oats throughout the day. I eat then raw and I help it down with water. Since ive started ive gained 8 pounds and looking much more shredded.
Im 106kg's at about 7%BF (with DEXA)
What ranage (g) would you put the high carb days in --- 600g??
Ive been carb cycling for 3 weeks now and great results, this is what ive been doing
MON - 100g
TUE - 70g
WED - 600g
THURS - 70g
FRI - 600g
SAT - 150g
SUN - 150g
My only carb sources are Oats and green veggies and 35g glucose post-training. On my high carb days i eat a 1kg box of oats throughout the day. I eat then raw and I help it down with water. Since ive started ive gained 8 pounds and looking much more shredded.
Im 106kg's at about 7%BF (with DEXA)
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
BIGMIke007 said:
If it is working for you, then go with it. I love that expression 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.
Use it until it doesn't work anymore then modify something.
The only thing I would look at starting to vary a bit, my only carb source is oats.
I do think people do far better eating a wide range of food types.
I have taken this on myself.
Before I took up bodybuilding, I was a veggie, for a LONG time as well, most of my life.
The great thing about this is that it was mostly macrobiotics, which did introduce me to a lot of different whole grains, beans, veggies, sea veggies, greens, flavourings.
Starting to eat meat was tough (and really gross at first). But my meat intake was mostly just chicken breast, eggs, cottage cheese.
Now I also eat turkey breast and steak to mix it up.
I have NEVER liked fish, but now I am FORCING myself to try different types.
Thank goodness I have an old fashioned fish monger near me, they are really lovely. I have now had tuna steaks and that tilapi or however you spell it.
I make a conscious effort to vary my diet.
You can get 'oat flakes' in different grains, like barley, rye, wheat, quinoa, spelt, brown rice. That may make it an easier introduction to different grains.
tatyana_zadorozny said:
I am a vegetarian- have been for many years- and it really makes it tough controlling the weight while trying to build muscle. A lot of my protein source comes via shakes and bars, and the rest is soy based as my main diet is the Morningstar type stuff because I'm on the run a lot...I just don't have time to prepare steamed vegetables and such. I get a lot of nuts, yogurt, cottage cheese and whole grains too. After gaining 18 pounds my last cycle, I lost about 4 post cycle, but it seems I retained a lot of fat in the lower mid section/love handle area. I boosted my cardio to 4X a week and the weight seems to be going up and down a couple of pounds a week. Other than "eat meat", do you have any other tips for a vegetarian? Thanks for all the informative posts- Karma coming.
st8grad
New member
sshadoww said:
For a vegetarian, check out some stuff by Mike Mahler. He's a vegetarian and has a pretty solid physique.
As for low carb and carb cycling it is absolutely the best way to eat. You only fill up your glycogen tank when you need it. Then the body can preserve glycogen and use fat primarily for energy.
Dr. Jeff Volek at UCONN has been researching low carb and athletes for years now. There is very conclusive evidence that low carb is superior for fat loss and after adaptation, better for athletic performance.
He has a book out now that is the TNT diet I think. I'm sure it just re-hashes CKD diets, but it probably now supports the claims with empirical evidence. Anyone that has actually stuck to low carb for a long period of time can tell you that it works great. You just have to get past the adaptation phase.
Check out Johnny Bowden, Charles Poliquin, Cassandra Forsythe, and Jeff Volek for good info on low carb.
2raptors said:
I drink nothing but bottled water- mostly Aquafina- and have for years...but yesterday I heard on the radio that the tap water, which is checked 100 times a month in NY, is actually better for you than the bottle water because supposedly the plastic is recycled from some kind of crude oil that only has to be checked just once a month- and not even every piece gets inspected. Still- I just feel more comfortable with Aquafina knowing it's tripled filtered twice...
just keep an eye on anything that would raise you hdl--make sure the animal proteins are lean and anything with fat is not the bad kind.
mine hdl went throught the roof on a tes.t/e.quipoise cycle b/c i did not have my diet spot-on.
mine hdl went throught the roof on a tes.t/e.quipoise cycle b/c i did not have my diet spot-on.
holy ghost
New member
maybe it will bind so MORE cant =d
BIGMIke007
New member
All you Soy critics take a look----- This article changed my mind on soy. Its a non-biased, informative article from someone with no affiliations
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
BIGMIke007
New member
The article above makes some interesting points including that the phytooestrogens in soy are more anti-oestogenic than oestrogenic!!!
A
ALIN
Guest
ajfab88 said:
I like HIGH protein, moderate carbs (GOOD COMPLEX CARBS),,and moderate FAT diets (olive, fish, omega oilsetc,,.),,,thats what works for me personally
BIGMIke007 said:
okay, but if grow boobs i'm coming looking for you
BIGMIke007
New member
eddymerckx said:okay, but if grow boobs i'm coming looking for you
I havent grown boobs yet, i really do agree with the author. Ive started including soy isolate, its a real good protein source and cheap as hell too!!
Everyone goes mad about optimum nutrition 100% Whey protein.... read the text on your bag. It reads (it doesnt make sense - they are just trying to fool you) "Whey derived from dairy and lecitin (to improve mixibility) from soy beans. IN other words the some of the isolates in OPTIMUM NUTRITION = SOY PROTEIN.
THE GOOD SUN
New member
something on soy:
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/index.htm
also wanted to say ...this is a great thread!!! ...IMO, people would just be amazed at the body & health they could create by just understanding diet & these concepts.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/index.htm
also wanted to say ...this is a great thread!!! ...IMO, people would just be amazed at the body & health they could create by just understanding diet & these concepts.
BIGMIke007 said:
I would rather have an alternative to whey or albumin as it makes me wheeze like a pinto full of fat guys driving up a hill--maybe soy will work--thankx for the great info.
holy ghost
New member
CKDS are out dated i think.
gjohnson5
New member
Just a few.
I would avoid soy like the plague if you are a male
1. Strauss, et al. "Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract," Mol Cell Endocrinol 1998 Sep 25;144(1-2);83-93
2. Casanova M, et al. "Developmental effects of dietary phytoestrogens in Sprague-Dawley rats and interactions of genistein and diadzein with rat estrogen receptors alpha and beta in vitro," Toxicol Sci 1999 Oct;51(2):236-44
3. Kumi-Diaka J, et al. "Cytotoxic potential of the phytochemical genistein isoflavone and certain environmental chemical compounds on testicular cells," Biol Cell, 1999 Sep;91 (7): 515-23
4. Anderson, et al. "Effect of various genotoxins and reproductive toxins in human lymphocytes and sperm in Comet assay," Teratog Carcinog Mutagen 1997;17(1);29-43
5. Hopert, et al. "Characterization of estrogenicity of phytoestrogens in an endometrial-derived experimental model," Environ Health Perspect 1998 Sep;106(9); 581-6
6. Setchell, et al. "Dietary Estrogens?a probable cause of infertility and liver disease in captive cheetahs," Gasteroenterology 1987 Aug;93(2);225-33
7. Atanassova N (2000). Comparative Effects of Neonatal Exposure of Male Rats to Potent and Weak (Environmental) Estrogens on Spermatogenesis at Puberty and the Relationship to Adult Testis Size and Fertility: Evidence for Stimulatory Effects of Low Estrogen Levels. Endocrinology Vol. 141, No. 10 3898-3907
8. Chorazy PA (1995). Persistent hypothyroidism in an infant receiving a soy formula: case report and review of the literature. Pediatrics Jul: 96 (1 Pt 1): 148-50
9. Irvine CHG (1998). Phytoestrogens in soy-based infant foods: concentrations, daily intake, and possible biological effects. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med1998 Mar; 217 (3): 247-53)
10. Lohrke B (2001). Activation of skeletal muscle protein breakdown following consumption of soybean protein in pigs. Br J Nutr 2001 Apr; 85 (4): 447-57
11. Nagata C (2000). Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men. Nutr Cancer; 36 (1): 14-8
12. Newbold RR (2001). Uterine Adenocarcinoma in Mice Treated Neonatally with Genistein. Cancer Research 61, 4325-4328
13. Pollard M (2000). Prevention of spontaneous prostate-related cancer in Lobund-Wistar rats by soy protein isolate/isoflavone diet. Prostate 2000 Oct 1; 45 (2): 101-5
14. Strauss L (1998). Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract. Mol Cell Endocrinol Sep 25; 144 (1-2): 83-93
15. Weber KS (2001). Dietary soy-phytoestrogens decrease testosterone levels and prostate weight without altering LH, prostate 5alpha-reductase or testicular steroidogenic acute regulatory peptide levels in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats. J Endocrinol Sep; 170 (3): 591-9
I would avoid soy like the plague if you are a male
1. Strauss, et al. "Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract," Mol Cell Endocrinol 1998 Sep 25;144(1-2);83-93
2. Casanova M, et al. "Developmental effects of dietary phytoestrogens in Sprague-Dawley rats and interactions of genistein and diadzein with rat estrogen receptors alpha and beta in vitro," Toxicol Sci 1999 Oct;51(2):236-44
3. Kumi-Diaka J, et al. "Cytotoxic potential of the phytochemical genistein isoflavone and certain environmental chemical compounds on testicular cells," Biol Cell, 1999 Sep;91 (7): 515-23
4. Anderson, et al. "Effect of various genotoxins and reproductive toxins in human lymphocytes and sperm in Comet assay," Teratog Carcinog Mutagen 1997;17(1);29-43
5. Hopert, et al. "Characterization of estrogenicity of phytoestrogens in an endometrial-derived experimental model," Environ Health Perspect 1998 Sep;106(9); 581-6
6. Setchell, et al. "Dietary Estrogens?a probable cause of infertility and liver disease in captive cheetahs," Gasteroenterology 1987 Aug;93(2);225-33
7. Atanassova N (2000). Comparative Effects of Neonatal Exposure of Male Rats to Potent and Weak (Environmental) Estrogens on Spermatogenesis at Puberty and the Relationship to Adult Testis Size and Fertility: Evidence for Stimulatory Effects of Low Estrogen Levels. Endocrinology Vol. 141, No. 10 3898-3907
8. Chorazy PA (1995). Persistent hypothyroidism in an infant receiving a soy formula: case report and review of the literature. Pediatrics Jul: 96 (1 Pt 1): 148-50
9. Irvine CHG (1998). Phytoestrogens in soy-based infant foods: concentrations, daily intake, and possible biological effects. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med1998 Mar; 217 (3): 247-53)
10. Lohrke B (2001). Activation of skeletal muscle protein breakdown following consumption of soybean protein in pigs. Br J Nutr 2001 Apr; 85 (4): 447-57
11. Nagata C (2000). Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men. Nutr Cancer; 36 (1): 14-8
12. Newbold RR (2001). Uterine Adenocarcinoma in Mice Treated Neonatally with Genistein. Cancer Research 61, 4325-4328
13. Pollard M (2000). Prevention of spontaneous prostate-related cancer in Lobund-Wistar rats by soy protein isolate/isoflavone diet. Prostate 2000 Oct 1; 45 (2): 101-5
14. Strauss L (1998). Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract. Mol Cell Endocrinol Sep 25; 144 (1-2): 83-93
15. Weber KS (2001). Dietary soy-phytoestrogens decrease testosterone levels and prostate weight without altering LH, prostate 5alpha-reductase or testicular steroidogenic acute regulatory peptide levels in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats. J Endocrinol Sep; 170 (3): 591-9
gjohnson5 said:
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
THE GOOD SUN said:
There are no references with this link, it is put on line by a 'private' group of people.
MD mag has had several of those little research blogs on soya, and all the latest research hasn't shown any nasty stuff.
There is an issue that soya is mass produced as it is used as a filler in a lot of food, you are probably eating more than you realise already.
I use traditional tofu and tempeh and all sorts of traditional Japanese foods in my diet.
My first forays into healthy eating were a result of being a vegetarian, in particular,macrobiotics (they do recommend fish on occasion, especially for men).
It is always better to eat a wide variety of whole, natural foods.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
gjohnson5 said:
Most of those are in rats and mice, lab animals.
I think if I was male, I would be more concerned about xenobiotics, man-made chemicals, stuff like paint, industrial solvents, have a tendency to mimic oestrogen.
I will see if I can find some of the recent papers on soya protein and male athletes.
This is a bit old, but is also states that the phytonutrients in soy are anti-oestrogenic, which may explain why it is thought to reduce the incidence of breast cancer in countries like Japan and China, where they eat about 50 g of soya based foods every day.
Journal of Nutrition. 1999;129:758-767.)
© 1999 The American Society for Nutritional Sciences
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Supplement
Dietary Isoflavones: Biological Effects and Relevance to Human Health1
Kenneth D. R. Setchell2 and Aedin Cassidy*
Clinical Mass Spectrometry, Children's Hospital Medical Center, Cincinnati, Ohio 45229 and * School of Biological Sciences, University of Surrey GU2 5XH
ABSTRACT
TOP
ABSTRACT
INTRODUCTION
Biological actions.
Sources of isoflavones.
Absorption and metabolism.
Clinical effects of isoflavones.
Premenopausal women.
Postmenopausal women.
Cardiovascular health.
Osteoporosis.
Men.
Infants.
CONCLUSION
REFERENCES
Substantial evidence indicates that diets high in plant-based foods may explain the epidemiologic variance of many hormone-dependent diseases that are a major cause of mortality and morbidity in Western populations. There is now an increased awareness that plants contain many phytoprotectants. Lignans and isoflavones represent two of the main classes of phytoestrogens of current interest in clinical nutrition. Although ubiquitous in their occurrence in the plant kingdom, these bioactive nonnutrients are found in particularly high concentrations in flaxseeds and soybeans and have been found to have a wide range of hormonal and nonhormonal activities that serve to provide plausible mechanisms for the potential health benefits of diets rich in phytoestrogens. Data from animal and in vitro studies provide convincing evidence for the potential of phytoestrogens in influencing hormone-dependent states; although the clinical application of diets rich in these estrogen mimics is in its infancy, data from preliminary studies suggest beneficial effects of importance to health. This review focuses on the more recent studies pertinent to this field and includes, where appropriate, the landmark and historical literature that has led to the exponential increase in interest in phytoestrogens from a clinical nutrition perspective.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KEY WORDS: • phytoestrogens • isoflavones • genistein • hormones • cancer • cardiovascular disease • bone
Isoflavones are naturally occurring plant chemicals belonging to the "phytoestrogen" class; they are currently heralded as offering potential alternative therapies for a range of hormone-dependent conditions, including cancer, menopausal symptoms, cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. Recent epidemiologic evidence and experimental data from animal studies that have been reviewed recently (Anderson and Garner 1997 , Cassidy 1996 , Knight and Eden 1996 , Messina et al. 1994 , Murkies et al. 1998 , Setchell 1995 and 1998 ) are highly suggestive of beneficial effects of isoflavones on human health, but the clinical data supportive of such effects are either not available, or are awaiting the design and execution of appropriate large-scale clinical studies. Nevertheless, data from limited small pilot studies are promising, and this has spurred the current interest in this area.
The isoflavones are strikingly similar in chemical structure to mammalian estrogens (Setchell and Adlercreutz 1988 ). The phenolic ring is a key structural element of most compounds that bind to estrogen receptors (Leclerq and Heuson 1979 ). When the structures of the isoflavone metabolite equol and estradiol are overlaid, they can be virtually superimposed; the distance between the hydroxyl groups at each end of both molecules is virtually identical (Fig. 1 ).On the basis of structure alone, it is not surprising that isoflavones bind to estrogen receptors (ER)3 ; however, their actions are more those of partial estrogen agonists and antagonists, a concept that is difficult to fully understand, but that continues to fascinate steroid biochemists and endocrinologists (Jordon 1990 , Mendelson 1996 ). To complicate matters further, estrogens can have nonclassical actions distinct from their classical genomic actions (Brann et al. 1995 ); these include effects on plasma membranes and on cell signaling pathways (Kim et al. 1998 ). What this implies from a clinical perspective is that at certain concentrations, which may depend on many factors including receptor numbers, occupancy and competing estrogen concentration, rather than acting as estrogen mimics and initiating estrogen-like actions, they may antagonize and inhibit estrogen action. These effects will also be tissue specific. This phenomenon is a well-known characteristic of steroid action, and is one that has driven pharmacologists to search for new molecules with selective estrogen action. The recently approved drug, Raloxifen, a selective estrogen receptor modulator is an example (Dodge et al. 1997 ).
The thing is lad, testosterone, oestrogen and progesterone all closely resemble each other.
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