lose stomack first, or bulk first ?

[solrosenberg]

I have about 10 lbs I need to lose off my stomack. I have some pretty decent muscle, but I was wondering if I should lose my stomack first, or gain more muscle, then lose my stomack after I bulk ? Or, is it possible to bulk and lose my stomack at the same time ? ( not meaning a 6 pack, just the excess stuff ) I have been eating great , and going to stick with the slow, clean way to bulk. Lots of calories, just the clean ones. Not as much fun though

 

[needtogetaas]

this is a no brainer.all ways cut down first.and i say this because i know from experance.

 

[solrosenberg]

this is a no brainer.all ways cut down first.and i say this because i know from experance.

why do you feel this is the best way ?

 

[needtogetaas]

why do you feel this is the best way ?

because there is no way to bulk and lose fat.9 out of 10 times no matter how clean you eat you will gain some fat.if you are going to bulk right you will be eating over your callery intake and it all most never all comes out as muscle.so at the end of youre bulk your going to have the fat you have now and some more to go with it.witch means you will have to cut longer and every one knows most of the time when you cut you lose muscle 90% of the time so a longer cut is going to make you lose more muscle.so your what going to bulk now wast some good gear,times then cut and lose the fat and most of the muscle and end up right were you would have bin if you had just don the cut first.lots of wasted time and aas if you're using it.


that bocken down real simple I am shore some one will come in here and make it more complexs then it has to be but thats the abc's bro.

 

[solrosenberg]

interesting. I am confused now. I was hoping to bulk with a clean diet, and hope my stomack would reduce with the added muscle and clean diet . Is this not possible ? Or am I only dreaming ? I dont need a 6 pack, just respectable stomack, meaning no rolls for now.

 

[needtogetaas]

interesting. I am confused now. I was hoping to bulk with a clean diet, and hope my stomack would reduce with the added muscle and clean diet . Is this not possible ? Or am I only dreaming ? I dont need a 6 pack, just respectable stomack, meaning no rolls for now.

its bin a long debated topic that has left "no it is not even posable for that to happen"as the winning out come many many times.we are all eager to get huge but the cold hard facts tell us we have to cut first if you dont want to be a fat ass later or und up were we started in the first place.

what is your bf% now

 

[solrosenberg]

its bin a long debated topic that has left "no it is not even posable for that to happen"as the winning out come many many times.we are all eager to get huge but the cold hard facts tell us we have to cut first if you dont want to be a fat ass later or und up were we started in the first place.

what is your bf% now

I have no idea. Im 6'0 210 lbs, pretty good build. Ideally I want to be 225 with a decent stomack.

 

[asdfzxcv]

I would probably try losing bodyfat first if you are above 17-18%bodyfat.Above that point insulin sensitivity goes to shit,which means that the majority of calories eaten will be partitioned towards fat cells and not to muscles.You dont want to gain 2-3lb of fat for every lb of muscle,because that is what will happen if you are really fat and go on a bulk.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/article123.html
Good info on the Partitioning ratio

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/ShitOrGetOffThePot3.html


If I were you I would get my bodyfat down to 10-13% then bulk from there,but that is just my suggestion.

 

[sparetire]

no brainer..

Your stomach is the showcase to the body. No matter how much muscle or how little muscle, CHICKS will always look at the face first, then the abs, then the guns, etc. I can't count how many huge guts i've seen with tons of muscle..it's almost like a walking contradiction..lose the gut then gain the muscle..

 

[Protobuilder]

this is a no brainer.all ways cut down first.and i say this because i know from experance.

+1 if you're over 16% or so

 

[solrosenberg]

+1 if you're over 16% or so

Im not that fat, just a little around my stomack. I look pretty muscular if it wasnt for that. I may try to bulk for 6 weeks and see what my stomack is doing. If it is getting bigger, then I may switch. I am going to take it a little slower than normal while bulking and eat very clean, and hopefully i can gain the added muscle, and my stomack reduces at the same time. I may add a little cardio along with the heavy lifting to increase my metabolism . First thing in the AM an empty stomack a couple times per week may do the trick. I will keep you guys aware of the results these next 6 weeks.

 

[JKurz1]

RIDICULOUS to even ask......lose the fing fat first dude and if you didn't want to hear what you SHOULD do, then why pose the question?????????

No one is going to tell someone who says they have 10 pounds to drop (I bet it's more) that they shoudl bulk..

 

[BiggT]

Well, another option is this. You said you have some fat around the stomach (not to be a penis, but is spelled with an 'ach' at the end).....anyway, this tells you that you're eating caloric excess in that you have visible bodyfat. You said you'd like to lose 10lbs, so I will assume you're not a fat slob or anything, lol, just a little "out of shape" looking at the worst.

You can do two things. One would be to keep calories as they are and begin progressively training and your body comp should improve as you add muscle and you'll reach a point where you need even more calories.

The other option is to not "cut", but just exercise a little common sense and sub in complex carbs for shit carbs, lay off booze, up your protein intake, that type of stuff.

In your situation (I am guessing you're not really all that fat) you could probably get away with option one.

 

[JKurz1]

BIGT...you need to learn something.when people come on this board saying they are 13,14,15% or better yet, 10, 9, or 8%.you can IMMIDIATELY add 4% to that number. Plain and simple. People have no clue as to their bf% with being tested and I don't mean with calipers. Arnold COMPETED at 7-8%.. What does that tell you?

My guess is he has more chub to lose than 10lbs.....may I ask how you figure 10? "Decent build"? Pics would solve this.

 

[BiggT]

You're right about bf% underestimations, Jeff.

There used to be a link floating around here. I think it was BB.com believe it or not, but it was actually quality info. It was a wakeup call for lots of people. Guys with stomachs spilling over their pants were claiming 18% bodyfat, but in reality 18% looked RIPPED compared to what people thought it was, lol. A legit 8% really is head-turningly lean.

 

[NJL52]

Any opinions on this subject as far as athletic training goes? Looks are only a benefit to me. Being powerful and explosive is all that matters.

 

[BiggT]

Any opinions on this subject as far as athletic training goes? Looks are only a benefit to me. Being powerful and explosive is all that matters.

It depends on your sport/position. Most athletes should be around 12-15% I would say. Football linemen, throwers etc etc would be better served between 18-20% in my opinion.

 

[NJL52]

It depends on your sport/position. Most athletes should be around 12-15% I would say. Football linemen, throwers etc etc would be better served between 18-20% in my opinion.

Yea, I used to play at 13%, but due to an ankle injury I got lazy and fat when I should have been training. I'm 100% sure that I need to lose 15ish pounds to get back to ideal shape. So do you think I should just halt my 5x5 and start cutting?

Edit: BTW, sport is football and position is LB/SS tweener.

 

[BiggT]

Yea, I used to play at 13%, but due to an ankle injury I got lazy and fat when I should have been training. I'm 100% sure that I need to lose 15ish pounds to get back to ideal shape. So do you think I should just halt my 5x5 and start cutting?

No, not at all. Make some common sense adjustments to the diet and keep trying to get stronger. Did you put on fat due to inactivity alone? Or did you start to eat like an asshole? or both? Just fix what broke you and stay with yur strength training.

 

[NJL52]

No, not at all. Make some common sense adjustments to the diet and keep trying to get stronger. Did you put on fat due to inactivity alone? Or did you start to eat like an asshole? or both? Just fix what broke you and stay with yur strength training.

I gained weight due to a little bit of both. I didn't stop working out, but I wasn't working as hard as prior. Same thing with my diet. I have been on 5x5 for 6ish weeks and havne't lost any bodyfat.

Nothing broke with my workout routine, I just didn't maintain it. And my current routine is going great, but I need to lose the fat I have gained to get back into playing shape.

 

[ZGzaZ]

You're right about bf% underestimations, Jeff.

There used to be a link floating around here. I think it was BB.com believe it or not, but it was actually quality info. It was a wakeup call for lots of people. Guys with stomachs spilling over their pants were claiming 18% bodyfat, but in reality 18% looked RIPPED compared to what people thought it was, lol. A legit 8% really is head-turningly lean.

Bigg, I just went back and found that link to that thread, but all the picture links are dead now.

 

[crazycarwes]

I guess I go against the grain here but as long as you are decently athletic ie: not fat then I would gain weight first. Gain to a little bit over where you want to be eventually then trim down once you get there to reach your real goal weight.

Maybe I have a different perception then these other guys but I get the picture that you are closer to skinny fat then fat fat so bulk up and then trim down!

Also with complete hard training and decent eating as long as your not fat to start with your body should recomp itself pretty much without the need for a super strict 'diet' or 'cut' phase.

Good luck just eat and train hard and smart and everything will work itself out.

 

[solrosenberg]

I guess I go against the grain here but as long as you are decently athletic ie: not fat then I would gain weight first. Gain to a little bit over where you want to be eventually then trim down once you get there to reach your real goal weight.

Maybe I have a different perception then these other guys but I get the picture that you are closer to skinny fat then fat fat so bulk up and then trim down!

Also with complete hard training and decent eating as long as your not fat to start with your body should recomp itself pretty much without the need for a super strict 'diet' or 'cut' phase.

Good luck just eat and train hard and smart and everything will work itself out.

This sounds more realistic. Like I said, I am not fat, just a few extra lbs around my stomack. Good diet, and heavy lifting should do the trick. Im not ready to cut yet. As lost as my calories are bad ones, I dont think I will get any fatter. Like I said, in 6 weeks, I will decide if it is working, then make the changes needed. I just dont want my stomack to get bigger while I bulk, which will make it harder to lose afterwards. Is it realistic for it to actually go down if I am eating very clean while bulking ?

 

[JKurz1]

You had your friggn mind made up before posting....why waste our time?

 

[solrosenberg]

Because nothing anybody said was convincing enough to rip down first. Why rip down twice, when I can add bulk and only rip down once ? How is that for a friggen answer ?

 

[solarclimax]

It is possible to bulk and lose fat at the same time, but i think it's easier to do what they said ^ ... i think alot of people would have a hard time trying to cut fat whilst bulking but not impossible, depends how bad u want it... No question is "RIDICULOUS" if you don't know the answer.

 

[Tweakle]

how exactly do you go about cutting fat while on a super-cal diet? I'd love to know. You can keep bf% gains down by doing daily 30-45min morning treadmill walks

 

[solrosenberg]

how exactly do you go about cutting fat while on a super-cal diet? I'd love to know. You can keep bf% gains down by doing daily 30-45min morning treadmill walks

high cal , clean diet should add bulk without adding fat around the stomack. Muscle burns fat also. I will let you know in 6 weeks if it works. If my stomack is getting bigger ( hoping it shrinks a little ), then I will change my approach. I am currently 6' 210 and wear 34" jeans.

 

[theguy351]

what would be a good way to cut weight quickly....without losing muscle? maybe doing light lifts with high reps and runing?

 

[BiggT]

what would be a good way to cut weight quickly....without losing muscle? maybe doing light lifts with high reps and runing?

Light weights and running are the fastest way to destroy every ounce of muscle on your body.

Basically, do more and eat a little less. Create a caloric deficit, you'll have to decrease training volume as your energy levels will drop, but keep the intensity high. (By intensity I mean the REAL meaning of the word, which is % of 1RM, not the gay bodybuilding meaning of some sort of perceived effort). Add in some HIIT cardio, or sprinting or swimming or even incline walking on mornings or off-days or hell, post training if you can stand it.

Light weights provide a poor stimulus (ie, they don't give your body a reason to keep the muscle you have). Running/long bouts of slow cardio are about the most catabolic thing you can do. If you want muscle then stay away from both.

 

[JKurz1]

high cal , clean diet should add bulk without adding fat around the stomack. Muscle burns fat also. I will let you know in 6 weeks if it works. If my stomack is getting bigger ( hoping it shrinks a little ), then I will change my approach. I am currently 6' 210 and wear 34" jeans.

Bro...you have a ton to learn about nutrition.....take in in stride and watch what you say. I said your post was ridiculous because you knew the answer in your head, or what you wanted to do wayyy before you asked. If you are so much as 1 calorie about your maintenance + activity for the day, you will gain weight.....Muscle does in fact burn fat, but if your calories are too high, I dont care if they are from celery (I'd like to see that) you will gain fat....

 

[Tweakle]

actual additional calorie burn from each lb of muscle is something like 5 kcal a day, so don't get your hopes up on that one.

 

[JKurz1]

actual additional calorie burn from each lb of muscle is something like 5 kcal a day, so don't get your hopes up on that one.

 

[solrosenberg]

actual additional calorie burn from each lb of muscle is something like 5 kcal a day, so don't get your hopes up on that one.

I see what you are saying, and I can appreciate it. Before, I was lifting semi regurlarly, and not eating clean and as a result I have a decent amount of muscle and a little extra around the stomack. But now, eating clean and lifting 5-6 days per weak intensily should make a huge difference imo. Like I said, in 6 weeks I will let you know the results. I am very interested to see. I am going skiing for 7 days starting next weekend, so this may throw my weight training behind a little, but my diet will remain excellant

 

[crazycarwes]

I'm the same stats as you and could not even think about getting a size 34" waist jeans on! 38's here and i'm bulking, clean or not don't really know. I've gained about 60 lbs in about 8 months and I look way better then before muscle 'tone' or 'definition' wise. Probably a little higher bodyfat butnot more than a couple percent. But like was said earlier who can bulk on clean foods that well? Not this ectomorph.

 

[JKurz1]

I'm the same stats as you and could not even think about getting a size 34" waist jeans on! 38's here and i'm bulking, clean or not don't really know. I've gained about 60 lbs in about 8 months and I look way better then before muscle 'tone' or 'definition' wise. Probably a little higher bodyfat butnot more than a couple percent. But like was said earlier who can bulk on clean foods that well? Not this ectomorph.

Why don't you assist him...maybe post your diet, just to ensure......

 

[poysyn]

your stomach is not going to get any smaller if you are 'bulking' my man..not only are your abs probably going to gain size (assuming you are doing heavy core lifts,) but your bodyfat will increase as well. Both of these things combined are going to make your gut stick out a bit more...in my opinion/experience. I have a friend who is an ectomorph who added a ton of size and stayed lean entirely throughout..unfortunately most people do not have it this easy.

If your goals are to look like a lean, ripped guy who can run around shirtless getting chicks all the time, then I suggest to cut.

If your goals are overall size and strength I would suggest bulking..

 

[solrosenberg]

your stomach is not going to get any smaller if you are 'bulking' my man..not only are your abs probably going to gain size (assuming you are doing heavy core lifts,) but your bodyfat will increase as well. Both of these things combined are going to make your gut stick out a bit more...in my opinion/experience. I have a friend who is an ectomorph who added a ton of size and stayed lean entirely throughout..unfortunately most people do not have it this easy.

If your goals are to look like a lean, ripped guy who can run around shirtless getting chicks all the time, then I suggest to cut.

If your goals are overall size and strength I would suggest bulking..

But I want to be both

 

[theguy351]

But I want to be both

what about for me? im a hockey goalie looking to improve my shape for the game....we dont need to be jacked but flexible, powerful legs and in good shape....i am planning on cutting for like a month until christmas with hiit 4-5 times a week and dieting....then gonna lift hardcore till like april-may and see where im at......anyone have any diet tips?

 

[JKurz1]

what about for me? im a hockey goalie looking to improve my shape for the game....we dont need to be jacked but flexible, powerful legs and in good shape....i am planning on cutting for like a month until christmas with hiit 4-5 times a week and dieting....then gonna lift hardcore till like april-may and see where im at......anyone have any diet tips?

here's one.......try starting your own thread......

 

[crazycarwes]

Why don't you assist him...maybe post your diet, just to ensure......

Thats what i'm trying to do.

He said his diet is going to be 'clean' so my diet probably wouldn't help him much because I just try to eat as much as I possibly can, the more condiments and calories the better. But here it is anyway...


1. 3 cups breakfast cereal apple jax or whatever 2 cups milk and about 12 oz of orange juice

2. .5lb lean ground beef with sloppy joe mix on ww bread 12 more oz of oj

3. .5lb chicken breast w/bbq sauce, mic'd then fried russet potato w/ ketchup

4. weight gain shake 110 grams of carbs 60 grams of protein and about 30 grams of fat from evoo.

5. Salad .75lb of lean meat, chicken, steak, fish etc... starchy side, like potatoes or pasta + right after this meal I have a milk shake which is 1200 calories consisting of a cup of whole milk, two cups of icecream, few tablespoons of anpb, and a bananna.

6. Either more meat (tuna sandwich) or weight gain shake before bed.

-on training days there is an extra wg shake right after training minus the fat.

Like I said 60lbs in about 8 months with not much variation of the above.

 

[anotherbutters]

There used to be a link floating around here. I think it was BB.com believe it or not, but it was actually quality info.

I haven't been around for a while, but this is one I have bookmarked:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=214711

EDIT: my first post in about 3 months and I screw up, lol. Sorry, just read ZGzaZ's post - the links to the pics are dead. Sorry folks.