Looking for Size & Strength

[AAS.Achilles]

Alright, so like to title says I'm looking to add as much size and strength as possible! Winter is getting underway so It's time to pack on some meat. This will be my first Steroid cycle aside from an 8 week SARMs run that I finished about a half month ago. I don't know if I'm gyno prone or not, but my short stocky nature leads me to believe I probably will be. That will be my main concern during the cycle, but I won't know how I'll react until I try.

Here are my stats:
Age: 21
Height: 5'7
Weight: 176
Body fat%: 16-19ish
Years lifting: 4, Consistantly: 2
Previous cycles: Only and 8 week SARMs run with S4 and Ostarine. A proper mini-pct was run as advised by Dylan in his thread.

Diet: My diet consists mainly consists of Protein and carb heavy foods, I try to take in about 1 gram of protein per lb of weight per day. I'm on a nice slow clean bulk right now at 250-500 calories over my maintenance, but I want to ramp it up to 500-750 calories during my cycle.

This is the cycle I was thinking of running, well more of just a template of things I was looking at.

1-4 Dbol: 30mg ED
1-8 Test E: 300-600mg per week (Not exactly sure what dose would be best)
Followed by a proper PCT

I was also looking into Dieselbolan from mr. supps as a Possible cycle, size and strength is what I'm looking for.

Any advice or input is welcome! I'm open to any opinions and help

 

[Colstreamer]

I'd recommend using only one compound bro, otherwise you won't know which one is causing any problems you may get. You could go with either test or dbol but dude you're only 21!!! I was 33 the first time I cycled! At your age you're practically a walking hormone factory.

 

[EZ_E]

Good point especially after only 2 years of consistent training.....what do you have in mind for PCT?

~EZ

 

[AAS.Achilles]

Double post, didn't mean to reply twice

 

[AAS.Achilles]

I'd recommend using only one compound bro, otherwise you won't know which one is causing any problems you may get. You could go with either test or dbol but dude you're only 21!!! I was 33 the first time I cycled! At your age you're practically a walking hormone factory.

I understand that two compounds may be a little much, just taking one or the other does sound like a good way to find out how I react to it. Although, after lurkin the site awhile I've mostly read that Dbol is best utilized when stacked with test. I would say I'm still a bit on the young side, but that aside I am proud of myself that I waited at least this long. Seeing kids in high school using was just disappointing.

Good point especially after only 2 years of consistent training.....what do you have in mind for PCT?

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...apy/very-best-pct-2010-right-here-712121.html

Basically following this guide for PCT, that along with reading needto's write up on Nolva I think I'll be headin in the right direction.I've already used most of these in my mini-pct for my SARMs run. I'm not using these things blindly though, still doing research on everything that I use.

 

[training700]

Go with test for 12 weeks can jumpstart with an oral. Would go with tbol or even anavar over dbol personally.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[Pound4PoundAAS]

Go with test for 12 weeks can jumpstart with an oral. Would go with tbol or even anavar over dbol personally.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

Why would you jump start with var?

 

[training700]

For more rapid strength gains. It would depend on the goals. Dbol can be great just depends. I don't care for the possible pumps that it causes and water vs something leaner.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[training700]

Would not be close to a first choice for a jumpstart of course.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[AAS.Achilles]

For more rapid strength gains. It would depend on the goals. Dbol can be great just depends. I don't care for the possible pumps that it causes and water vs something leaner.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

Not really going for lean, I can cut naturally for now. I really just want to gain some size.

 

[squatzilla]

You need to be natural @ least 5 yrs before even thinking 'bout AAS. Also, what kind of training program do you use?

 

[AAS.Achilles]

You need to be natural @ least 5 yrs before even thinking 'bout AAS. Also, what kind of training program do you use?

Was doing SS and got all my lifts to 3/2/4 so now I'm just cruisin along with Layne Nortons PHAT.

 

[EZ_E]

PCT is on...but I will echo; test only and being 25

~EZ

 

[AAS.Achilles]

PCT is on...but I will echo; test only and being 25

~EZ

Well I do respect your word, I'm pretty sure you know what your talking about.

So you would recommend cycling test only? And did you mean I should wait till I'm 25?

 

[liffalot]

A couple things here:

Firstly, saying that 21 is too young is a gross generalization - it depends on YOUR specific hormone levels. So you need to decide that for yourself if you think your body is ready for AAS.

Secondly, I understand that you're pretty short and stocky, but 16-19% is a pretty big range of bodyfat percentage especially when you only weigh 175. If you're close to 20% at 175 thats a significant amount of fat and that should be cut down to at least 12-14% before cycling in my opinion.

All factors considered - you're 175, 16-19% bodyfat, and have been training consistently for only 2 years, I dont think you have a sufficient base or fat percentage to start AAS. Of course its all still up to you, but I can promise you beyond a shadow of a doubt that with 2 years training, 175 lbs on a 5'7" frame, and 16-19% BF that you are not at your natural limit if that means anything to you.

I understand you're struggle - I'm in college and still trying to hold off because I know I havent reached my limits. Instead I just turned myself into a sarms junkie.......lol.

Anyway, my recommendation would be to go ahead and experiment with SARMs for a couple more years - they;re wonderful and relatively safe compounds that really take advantage of youthful hormone production.

P.S. dont forget to get all your Sarms from Sarmssearch

 

[AAS.Achilles]

Yeah I really feel that I don't have that much free test in my body, I should get bloods done to see how it's Lookin.

Well I couldn't say for sure exactly what my bf is, I don't want to pay to get it measured. I could still be way off, but high bf comes with the territory of training naturally, if you don't eat you won't grow. Clean bulking is really a crap shoot IMO for naturals because if you miscalculate just a bit then you'll be eating at just maintenance.

I do love SARMs but I just want to try something new.

 

[liffalot]

Yeah I really feel that I don't have that much free test in my body, I should get bloods done to see how it's Lookin.

Well I couldn't say for sure exactly what my bf is, I don't want to pay to get it measured. I could still be way off, but high bf comes with the territory of training naturally, if you don't eat you won't grow. Clean bulking is really a crap shoot IMO for naturals because if you miscalculate just a bit then you'll be eating at just maintenance.

I do love SARMs but I just want to try something new.

Good on ya then, just make sure you do your homework bro!

I'm in the same boat - get bloods done if you can afford it. Got my bloods done and my test both free and blood test were below the 300 - 1000 normal range so I'll probably start to cycle soon as well.

Most important thing is that you be sure not to fuck yourself up

 

[jerome simpson]

Well I couldn't say for sure exactly what my bf is, I don't want to pay to get it measured. I could still be way off, but high bf comes with the territory of training naturally, if you don't eat you won't grow. Clean bulking is really a crap shoot IMO for naturals because if you miscalculate just a bit then you'll be eating at just maintenance.

With respect, the above could be interpreted like you think steroids are miraclegrow for the body. Tuning in your diet will help you gain mass while keeping your BF where you want it. Stop eating any sugar. Most of the senior folks on this board had this dialed in long before aas and wouldn't really buy that statement. Sounds like you need to get on the cardio train. You have good weight on your frame, lean it up before putting on mass you'll be happier that way the an the opposite.

If you're going to move forward keep the cycle simple and consistent and spend more energy on learning diet and training than on the gear.

 

[AAS.Achilles]

With respect, the above could be interpreted like you think steroids are miraclegrow for the body. Tuning in your diet will help you gain mass while keeping your BF where you want it. Stop eating any sugar. Most of the senior folks on this board had this dialed in long before aas and wouldn't really buy that statement. Sounds like you need to get on the cardio train. You have good weight on your frame, lean it up before putting on mass you'll be happier that way the an the opposite.

If you're going to move forward keep the cycle simple and consistent and spend more energy on learning diet and training than on the gear.

Well actually it essentially is miracle grow lol, although I know without the right diet I won't get any results. I'm not a nutritional expert or anything, but I do know that when trying to maintain a certain BF% while putting on mass training natty is an extremely slow process. I'm not really scared of fat gains, cutting is actually my favorite part of the process. I've just always had trouble putting on mass.

I feel like my thread is turning into a, "If I should cycle or not discussion". I would love to try Dbol or test, but I've never put anything this strong into my body, which Is why I've posted here looking for guidance. Maybe it would be in my best interests to "Let my rats" run another SARMs cycle for the time being, it's winter baby it's time to get big and sexy anyway lol. I just want to put on some mass, I'm even considering bulking straight through summer, I'm really dying for mass and strength at this point. I know my diet is key part of whatever I do so just letting you guys know I'm aware of it and definitely not ignoring it.

 

[liffalot]

Well actually it essentially is miracle grow lol, although I know without the right diet I won't get any results. I'm not a nutritional expert or anything, but I do know that when trying to maintain a certain BF% while putting on mass training natty is an extremely slow process. I'm not really scared of fat gains, cutting is actually my favorite part of the process. I've just always had trouble putting on mass.

I feel like my thread is turning into a, "If I should cycle or not discussion". I would love to try Dbol or test, but I've never put anything this strong into my body, which Is why I've posted here looking for guidance. Maybe it would be in my best interests to "Let my rats" run another SARMs cycle for the time being, it's winter baby it's time to get big and sexy anyway lol. I just want to put on some mass, I'm even considering bulking straight through summer, I'm really dying for mass and strength at this point. I know my diet is key part of whatever I do so just letting you guys know I'm aware of it and definitely not ignoring it.

Yea I think that there is a reason that its turning into that sort of thread - seems like a lot of people dont think you're ready to cycle. I think your sarms idea is a good one.

And as far as roids being miracle grow, it isnt. You cant just take them and eat a lot and get muscle mass. it takes intense diet and training. Really the way Ilike to think about it is that they allow you to work harder than you could before

 

[EZ_E]

A couple things here:

Firstly, saying that 21 is too young is a gross generalization - it depends on YOUR specific hormone levels. So you need to decide that for yourself if you think your body is ready for AAS.

Secondly, I understand that you're pretty short and stocky, but 16-19% is a pretty big range of bodyfat percentage especially when you only weigh 175. If you're close to 20% at 175 thats a significant amount of fat and that should be cut down to at least 12-14% before cycling in my opinion.

All factors considered - you're 175, 16-19% bodyfat, and have been training consistently for only 2 years, I dont think you have a sufficient base or fat percentage to start AAS. Of course its all still up to you, but I can promise you beyond a shadow of a doubt that with 2 years training, 175 lbs on a 5'7" frame, and 16-19% BF that you are not at your natural limit if that means anything to you.

I understand you're struggle - I'm in college and still trying to hold off because I know I havent reached my limits. Instead I just turned myself into a sarms junkie.......lol.

Anyway, my recommendation would be to go ahead and experiment with SARMs for a couple more years - they;re wonderful and relatively safe compounds that really take advantage of youthful hormone production.

P.S. dont forget to get all your Sarms from Sarmssearch

+1....well said

~EZ