Lockout Power!!!

[vtec96]

I wanted to get some advise on increasing my lockout ... Im doing a modified WS routine.... Im doing a regular bench (reps of 3-5) on one day and the other day working on triceps (similar to a ME day....Board presses, close grips, close grip incline/decline, etc.) Cant do floor presses since gym dont have a power rack!!

I also have bands which I think im gonna start using on Sunday ... but would a partial-rep (mid to top) regular bench for lockouts be a good idea?

I did them yesterday to work the lockout instead of close grips and they seemed to really tax my tri's!!! These are pretty much the same as a board press just without the boards to pause on, right?

 

[CytoMel]

but would a partial-rep (mid to top) regular bench for lockouts be a good idea?

I did them yesterday to work the lockout instead of close grips and they seemed to really tax my tri's!!! These are pretty much the same as a board press just without the boards to pause on, right?

Partial to top regular benches are a LOT different than board presses.

Board presses will work excellently for your much desired lockout power!

 

[vtec96]

Cytomel, would the only diff be the pause?
Like pausing from a box squat?

 

[CytoMel]

I think that a board press is a different than a box squat because in a box squat the muscles temperarily relax on the bottom. In the board press the muscles dont relax when pausing on the board.

Board presses are very hard with heavy weights because the bar comes to a complete stop and all the weight is transferred onto your chest through the boards. It is very hard to get the bar started back off the boards with heavy weights. Regular half presses aren't nearly as hard. Do them with the boards and you will feel the difference.

An exercise I like but havent done lately are half presses with a band wrapped around the back.

 

[vtec96]

thanks cytomel.... I think I get the picture now about doing the board presses.....
as far as the bands go, I have a pair of the Blue minis.....
So, for my Sunday w/o should I start using the bands, or just stick to the board presses without them? I did my last set of board presses close grip....I think this time ill try a wider grip.
I have 2 2x6 boards tied together that I use ... Its pretty close to chest level I but cant find the 3rd board that I had. Ill get one again if needed..
I seen: "An exercise I like but havent done lately are half presses with a band wrapped around the back." before and might try them in the future too....

 

[CytoMel]

I would go with the board and the bands together for your next training session, rotate them in and out changing the exercise each time.

The closest we go with grip is a thumbs away from the smooth.

I know some smaller lifters and women can frequently go with a finger on the smooth for benching but I feel thats too narrow for broad shouldered lifters.

 

[Screwball]

My recommendation is to use a lot of band tension with a multitude of exercises to build your tricep strength/lockout strength. It is more important to have band tension then straight weight. Choke the bands down and loop them around the bar to increase the tension. Pin presses and 4-6 board presses are the best exercises to use these with. IrishPower recently posted the use of heavy band tension when floor pressing which should be another great variation. I realize you can't floor press with a barbell but you could use dumbbells and place a band(s) behind your back and through your hands. Good luck!

 

[vtec96]

Screwball, so you think my 2 boards will be too low to my chest? I need 4-6? I bet I could lift LOTS more weight with those than my normal 2 boards .... Sounds good .... Maybe I need to go to Home Depot and get some more cut... Im gonna start tomorrow, so If I need more boards, I need to take a trip to the HD

 

[Screwball]

vtec96, I think that 2-4 boards are better used as ME exercises and 5-6 boards are better used as tricep specific work. A lot of lifters will hit 2-4 boards as the ME exercise and then add a couple of more boards to finish off the triceps. The 2-4 boards are used to work your mini-max also known as your sticking point. If you can press from the point where your bench press usually fails then you can overcome the sticking point. 5-6 boards will overload your triceps and build tremendous lockout strength, especially with the use of bands & chains. You will be able to use a lot more weight with a 5-6 board as compared to a 2-3 board. With the addition of the heavier weight you will accustom your body to be comfortable with heavier & heavier poundages. It is good mentally as well.

 

[vtec96]

vtec96, I think that 2-4 boards are better used as ME exercises and 5-6 boards are better used as tricep specific work. A lot of lifters will hit 2-4 boards as the ME exercise and then add a couple of more boards to finish off the triceps. The 2-4 boards are used to work your mini-max also known as your sticking point. If you can press from the point where your bench press usually fails then you can overcome the sticking point. 5-6 boards will overload your triceps and build tremendous lockout strength, especially with the use of bands & chains. You will be able to use a lot more weight with a 5-6 board as compared to a 2-3 board. With the addition of the heavier weight you will accustom your body to be comfortable with heavier & heavier poundages. It is good mentally as well.

Thats Exactly what I needed to know about the diff with the # of boards... Thanks man... I think Ill get some more tomorrow but defiantely work them accordingly... Ill prob do the 2 boards tomorrow to work my sticking point, then next week try 5-6 for more lockout power and to get used to the weight!!
One more thing... If my lockout is not what it should be right now, then should I do these boards for a couple of weeks w/just the weight (no Bands) since it will be heavy enough with only the plates? Then when I can lockout better, I can start to use the bands for extra tension at the top. Sound right?
Thanks bro..

 

[powerlifterjay]

Dam screwball you defintly no your shit bro! Here is some Karma for you!

 

[Screwball]

Jay, thanks man. I appreciate the Karma and it means a lot coming from an experienced lifter who knows his shit as well. I learned most of what I know by being a member of this board. I can't tell you what a valuable tool it has become for me.

vtec96, there's nothing wrong with using an empty bar and bands. However, weight added to the bar when using bands tends to stabilize everything. It is a tremendous workout for the stabilizer muscles to control the band tension. A good way to work with the use of bands and chains is to cycle their use. An example would be 1-2 weeks with bands, 1-2 weeks with chains and then 1-2 weeks with straight weight. Thus, you have a 3-6 week mini-cycle. Bands are the hardest on the body followed by chains.

An interesting thing I read about recently was, when attempting a maximal lift you can throw bands (only mini's or light bands) on the bar while warming up and working up in weight. When you get close to your maximum attempts you pull the bands off and use only the straight weight. Apparently, the use of bands primes the body to push the heavy weight quickly and once you remove the bands the straight weight just flys up. I haven't actually given it a try yet but I really think it's a good way to break PR's especially if you've plateaued at a weight for a while.

 

[p03t1c]

screwball/pljay:

do you guys normally do board presses on ME day after the main exercise whether it be floor press, 2-3 boardpress, incline or whatever? if so, what do you do after your bench on dynamic days?

should it go
ME DAY:
main lift
boardpress
extensions
lats/shoulders
DE DAY:
speed bench
extensions
lats/shoulders

or how do you recommend?

 

[Screwball]

Okay, this is what I like to do. First, I have backed off of the speed benching. It tends to aggrevate my tendonitis. I hit an ME upper body day every four days with every 4th or 5th workout as a DE day.

Typical ME day:

ME Exercise: 2-4 Board Presses
Reverse Band Presses
Incline Presses/Decline Presses
Floor Presses
Flat Dumbbell (for reps)

Tricep Exercise: 5-6 Board Presses
Dumbbell Extensions
Barbell Extesions
JM Presses
Tate Presses

Shoulder Exercises: Seated Dumbbell Cleans
Rotator Work w/ Bands
Dumbbell Laterals
Reverse Pec Deck

Back Exercises: Barbell Rows
Dumbbell Rows
Machine Rows
Pulldowns(many variations)
Face-Pulls
Shrugs

Additional Exercises: Tricep Pushdowns
Dumbbell Curls
Barbell Curls
Hammer Curls
Reverse Curls
Grip Work

These are just a few examples and you can always mix it up with the use of barbells vs. dumbbells, bands, chains, etc... As far as your board specific questions, I believe that 2-4 boards should be used as ME exercises and 5-6 boards should be used as tricep specific exercises. Sometimes, we will start with 2-3 boards for the ME exercise and then add a couple more boards to hit the tricep exercise, all in the same workout. Hope this helps!

 

[p03t1c]

yes that does help. also, i was wondering if you go low reps after ME and higher reps after DE. i have been pretty much following what you said, but since my workingout is a 1 person show(me) it helps to see what others are doing.

 

[Hannibal]

also, i was wondering if you go low reps after ME and higher reps after DE

Not speaking for Screwball...but the sets and reps of the accessory work is up to you. What works for one person wont work for another. Through trial and error you have to find what works for you.

 

[Screwball]

I think the general norm is to hit higher reps (6+) for your tricep exercise on your ME day and lower reps (3-6) on your DE day. I think you should go by feel more than anything. If you're feeling strong then hit the heavy weight for lower reps and if you're feeling tired or beat-up then rep a lighter weight. I've watched a few of the Westside videos and when they hit their accessory work they will rep until 1-2 reps short of failure. If they happen to use too light of a weight for an exercise than they go until 1-2 reps short of failure. Sometimes they hit 20+ reps.

 

[Screwball]

Exactly what Hannibal said. Pick accessory work that addresses your weaknesses and work in a rep range that is suitable. If you are looking to strengthen a particular muscle group then use heavier weight for fewer reps and if your looking to build some size then do hypertrophy work with a more moderate weight and reps in the 6-20 range.

 

[vtec96]

Wow, this thread has some GREAT INFO!!!!! Thanks everyone....

Got a question though on cycling the ME excercises.....Screwball, Jay, or anyone who knows this:

Im now doing my ME-type workout for bench for 2 weeks per exercise... So now im doing my 2nd week of 2-board presses...Its going good, but was wondering if my next step is in order?

I was planning on doing 4 boards for another 2 weeks, then maybe back down to 2 boards with bands for 2 weeks, then 4-boards with bands for another 2 weeks...all on flat bench...then go to incline/decline for 2 weeks ea, then DB for 20's ....Screwball, you said a good way would be bands/chains/straight weight...would this be all on the same excersice? like the 2-borads flat bench? That would be up to 6-weeks?

Also, my "DE" day is a raw bench for reps (5) then tris and some shoulders sets of 6-8... Maybe 1-2 sets of rows for back.....
Is this good or too much time on boards on flat bench??

 

[p03t1c]

so long as you are getting stronger i think you can keep at certain types of exercises. the only real reason to switch is 1) u get burned out on doing the same thing over and over again 2) you don't progress 3) you actually get weaker. i normally do not do more than 2 weeks on a given exercise. here is what i have been doing for the past 5 weeks:

ME exercise
floorpress week 1/ week 2
3 board press week 3/week 4
illegal wides week 5 - i do these because moving the hands out will stress the pecs a bit more and i have very little pec strength

close grip incline week 5/6
then i'll prolly go back to a board or floor press for 2 weeks
and then take a max

i found that floor presses and board presses make my max go up the most. if i PR on those, i make big PRs when i take a max. i personally would do something a little bit different than the way you are suggesting, but everyone does it differently and maybe that way would work for you. good luck either way.

PS... thanks hannibal and screwball, that is the info i was looking for!!

 

[Screwball]

I think it is good to mix it up as often as possible. Personally, I find that it's very difficult for me to PR on an ME exercise for 2 or more weeks in a row unless it is a totally new movement. I have been switching my ME exercises every week to stay fresh and it is good for me mentally. I think a very good rule to follow is to cycle your ME exercises in a fasion where you hit a full-range movement then a partial-range movement.

Full-Range Movements: Reverse Band Presses, Decline Presses, Incline Presses, Dumbbell Presses, Illegal Wides, etc...

Partial Range Movements: Floor Presses, Board Presses, Pin Presses, etc...

You can use bands & chains with all of these movements. As far as cycling the bands & chains, the general rule I use is no more than two weeks with bands (choked down of course, reverse bands don't count as they aid in the movement) before a change to either chains or straight weight. The same thing for chains, no more than two weeks before a change to straight weight. I always go down in resistance. Mind you, none of this is set in stone. This is how I train. Some train with bands and/or chains all of the time but I can't as they really beat me up. If you are going to cycle your ME exercises every two weeks then I would stick with the same set-up for both weeks so you can try to PR on the exact same exercise. Pretty much, just common sense.

Example:

Week #1 - Floor Press w/ Chains
Week #2 - Floor Press w/ Chains
Week #3 - Close-grip Incline Bench Press
Week #4 - Close-grip Incline Bench Press
Week #5 - 3-Board Press w/ Mini-bands Doubled
Week #6 - 3- Board Press w/ Mini-bands Doubled
Week #7 - Reverse Band Press w/ Green Bands Suspended
Week #8 - Reverse Band Press w/ Green Bands Suspended
Week #10 - Rack Lock-outs - 3"-6" ROM
Week #11 - Rack Lock-outs - 3"-6" ROM

I think you probably get the idea. Rotate partial movements with full-range movements and cycle your band/chain/straight weight.

On DE day you need to be hitting 8-12 sets of 3 reps @ 45% - 60% of your 1-rep max with less than 45 seconds rest between sets. You need to be completing the 3-rep sets in less than 3 seconds. DE day is all about speed. You can use bands (mini's or light only) and/or chains on your speed sets if you feel physically up for it. It is probably a good idea to cycle the use of bands & chains on your DE day as well. When you hit your accessory work after ME & DE day make sure you focus on your weaknesses. If you can military press 315 lbs. but can only flat bench 250 lbs. then it's safe to say that your delts & triceps are not your weakness. So focus on your upper back, lats, and chest. These are only recommendations and a general guideline of how I do things. Remember, the beauty of training Westside is that your in control of your training. Westside training is the most effective when used intelligently and tailored to your personal needs. Good Luck!